Matt Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Sorry you have lost me now, what have Everton got to do with it? Haf was pointing out some of the good signings Martinez had made at Wigan and you responded with "and all that despite having to say, "and you'll be playing for Wigan...." That sentence alone will filter his possibilities massively!" I wasn't implying that anybody would choose Wigan over Everton, I was merely stating that some players would view Wigan as an excellent opportunity to put themselves in the shop window my point was that Martinez managed to get some bargains despite having Wigan as a selling point, which is impressive. Also, that he could do much better with the name Everton behind him, if he came here. I dont see how Wigan would ever be an excellent opportunity though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 If Moyes was Wigan manager he wouldnt have been able to convice Cahill, Arteta,Jags, and the like to sign for them. It's not the same comparisson. Sorry, but that's a hypothetical speculation that you are unable to prove and there for must be deemed inadmissible evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Sorry you have lost me now, what have Everton got to do with it? Haf was pointing out some of the good signings Martinez had made at Wigan and you responded with "and all that despite having to say, "and you'll be playing for Wigan...." That sentence alone will filter his possibilities massively!" I wasn't implying that anybody would choose Wigan over Everton, I was merely stating that some players would view Wigan as an excellent opportunity to put themselves in the shop window Everton were themselves relegation fodder when Moyes first took over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 After listening to his recent interviews i think Davey is staying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 If Moyes was Wigan manager he wouldnt have been able to convice Cahill, Arteta,Jags, and the like to sign for them. It's not the same comparison. What makes you so sure 2 Championship players desperate for a chance in the Premiership wouldn't sign for a Premiership side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) " The offer of a coaching role to Neville indicated that Moyes is preparing for next season as Everton manager despite stalling over a new contract at Goodison. But the Scot protested: "I gave him an opportunity to stay on the staff – that would be better wording. There is nothing at the moment. I talk with the chairman regularly but there won't be anything until the end of the season. "I have had a bit more information [on the club's finances this summer] and how I am going to be able to spend and use the money. A lot of it is to do with the Premier League rules as well. I have been getting some good stuff back. The club are obviously doing everything they can to make sure we have got what we need. We have a side that we need to start thinking about turning around a little bit" From the Guardian Bit more detail http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22130386 Edited April 12, 2013 by duncanmckenzieismagic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Nev is our new manager? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalziel Kane Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Appears as though Moyes is making some excuses in the above link. 'We have an ageing team, we need new players etc' (to enable a european place for next season). That's fair enough, but you can't escape the fact, the opportunities have been there this year to already have been in so much better a position. The inability to keep leads until the very end, giving away goals at pivotal stages, players underperforming or lacking interest, Moyes himself making bizarre tactical changes, again, and failing to beat or see off opposition sides we really should be taking maximum points from, so Moyes has to build himself up a little defense. Once more, and I don't know how many times it is now, I wish him well, but enough is enough for many. Really would like him to move on this close season and find employment elsewhere. Don't ask to elaborate, been over it a thousand times as it is. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Appears as though Moyes is making some excuses in the above link. 'We have an ageing team, we need new players etc' (to enable a european place for next season). That's fair enough, but you can't escape the fact, the opportunities have been there this year to already have been in so much better a position. The inability to keep leads until the very end, giving away goals at pivotal stages, players underperforming or lacking interest, Moyes himself making bizarre tactical changes, again, and failing to beat or see off opposition sides we really should be taking maximum points from, so Moyes has to build himself up a little defense. Once more, and I don't know how many times it is now, I wish him well, but enough is enough for many. Really would like him to move on this close season and find employment elsewhere. Don't ask to elaborate, been over it a thousand times as it is. Why are his changes bizarre? Here is a perfect example of him getting it right, and some of us getting it wrong: Toffeetalk supporters dismayed at striker Jelavic being replaced by defender Heitinga ........ Minutes later, Heitinga smashes in an injury time winner much to the joy of the fans .......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalziel Kane Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 and that's just an excuse to show of some fancy pictures or design work.. Ok, Moyes may have got something right at some point in time, but you can't let the number of errors or mishaps pass by. I'd still like a new name in charge of this club for next season. Can't change that thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 Why are his changes bizarre? Here is a perfect example of him getting it right, and some of us getting it wrong: I hope you're not serious. Awful sub, in no way was the plan for Johnny to come on and help us score a goal. Moyes went for a replay and got v.lucky. Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 and that's just an excuse to show of some fancy pictures or design work.. Ok, Moyes may have got something right at some point in time, but you can't let the number of errors or mishaps pass by. I'd still like a new name in charge of this club for next season. Can't change that thinking. DK, don't push it mate. I don't need an excuse to share artwork. The pictures capture how quickly people are to criticise. Anybody else would have had a sharper response, so know you are honoured by my tongue biting efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 I hope you're not serious. Awful sub, in no way was the plan for Johnny to come on and help us score a goal. Moyes went for a replay and got v.lucky. Nope. Absolutely serious. He uses what he has, and chooses the players accordingly. Just because fans don't have the same thought process doesn't make him wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 (edited) Sorry that heitinga substitution was a complete and utter piss take. Moyes subs are absolutely shocking 90% of the time and that was a shocking sub. The fact he wanted the fans to take it as a good sub insulted intelligence. Who puts a defender on to win a game? It's not like johnny is prolific. He's not even a good midfielder. He was looking to see the game out (nothing new) Moyes gets credit for what he is good at, lets not try and mask what he is shite at. Edited April 13, 2013 by Hafnia Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcirony Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 Sorry that heitinga substitution was a complete and utter piss take. Moyes subs are absolutely shocking 90% of the time and that was a shocking sub. The fact he wanted the fans to take it as a good sub insulted intelligence. Who puts a defender on to win a game? It's not like johnny is prolific. He's not even a good midfielder. He was looking to see the game out (nothing new) Moyes gets credit for what he is good at, lets not try and mask what he is shite at. I'm pretty sure we went through this at the time but I seem to remember Heitinga coming on so others could push up and stay in their third of the pitch. It did work because we started to put them under lots of pressure with balls in the box and corners. This resulted in a goal....job done. It's not like we were hanging on passing the ball around the back 4 waiting for the whistle to blow was it?! Or playing into the corners?! Surely that's what a manager would do if they wanted a draw. Seriously, some of you guys are impossible to please!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 I'm pretty sure we went through this at the time but I seem to remember Heitinga coming on so others could push up and stay in their third of the pitch. It did work because we started to put them under lots of pressure with balls in the box and corners. This resulted in a goal....job done. It's not like we were hanging on passing the ball around the back 4 waiting for the whistle to blow was it?! Or playing into the corners?! Surely that's what a manager would do if they wanted a draw. Seriously, some of you guys are impossible to please!! Or he could have just brought on a striker or left Jelavic on, taken off a defender (because we didnt need 4 at the back) and then bring on a midfielder to allow Felli forward! Or he could have just moved Felli forward anyway... There is no way in this world that bringing on a CB for a striker was a good decision. Its not like we were any more threatening either, as we had been lumping balls at them all day long. We got lucky and anyone who is trying to support that substitution as a moment of tactical genius is talking out of their arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcirony Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 (edited) Or he could have just brought on a striker or left Jelavic on, taken off a defender (because we didnt need 4 at the back) and then bring on a midfielder to allow Felli forward! Or he could have just moved Felli forward anyway... There is no way in this world that bringing on a CB for a striker was a good decision. Its not like we were any more threatening either, as we had been lumping balls at them all day long. We got lucky and anyone who is trying to support that substitution as a moment of tactical genius is talking out of their arse.I'm not saying it was tactical genius, but it wasn't a substitution aimed at getting a draw. I can understand people taking their time talking about how Moyes' substitutions have NOT worked in games we have lost or drawn. I just don't understand why people have to drag up results that we actually won. Whether the substitution was intentionally aimed at getting us a goal is irrelevant because we will never know. There isn't a manager in the land who hasn't done the same thing, it's not just our manager. Lots of other managers who people seem to think will take us to the next level also make questionable tactical decisions. Why? Because there is no straight answer to winning a game, you have to try different things and that's what they do and if it goes wrong they get shit, if it goes right....well in Moyes' case he gets shit anyway. Edited April 13, 2013 by MoyesForPM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 He didnt replace Jelavic with Heitinga. He replaced Fellaini with Heitinga and Jelavic with Fellaini. Giving us the option of hoofing the ball up and pinning it there via Fellaini. Ok Heitinga scoring was a fluke, but it was a result of the substitution. Allowing Everton to push up allowed Heitinga to push up. It wasa good substitution and I said it there and then to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 I'm pretty sure we went through this at the time but I seem to remember Heitinga coming on so others could push up and stay in their third of the pitch. It did work because we started to put them under lots of pressure with balls in the box and corners. This resulted in a goal....job done. It's not like we were hanging on passing the ball around the back 4 waiting for the whistle to blow was it?! Or playing into the corners?! Surely that's what a manager would do if they wanted a draw. Seriously, some of you guys are impossible to please!! Bingo. Our players are versatile. Fans need to stop categorizing them in to defenders, or strikers etc. He wasn't played as a defender, but put much further up field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 It's the same type of sub he used against Fulham when we were leading. Don't know how anyone can argue it was to try and win the game, let alone say its a good tactic considering how unoften it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcirony Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 It's the same type of sub he used against Fulham when we were leading. Don't know how anyone can argue it was to try and win the game, let ialone say its a good tactic considering how unoften it works. It may have been the same sub but it doesn't mean it was the same tactically speaking. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 I'm not saying it was tactical genius, but it wasn't a substitution aimed at getting a draw. I can understand people taking their time talking about how Moyes' substitutions have NOT worked in games we have lost or drawn. I just don't understand why people have to drag up results that we actually won. Whether the substitution was intentionally aimed at getting us a goal is irrelevant because we will never know. There isn't a manager in the land who hasn't done the same thing, it's not just our manager. Lots of other managers who people seem to think will take us to the next level also make questionable tactical decisions. Why? Because there is no straight answer to winning a game, you have to try different things and that's what they do and if it goes wrong they get shit, if it goes right....well in Moyes' case he gets shit anyway. That first bits fair enough. I dont think he was playing for a draw either I just think it was a really backwards sub and my opinion is that if he does that 100 times it would probably work once and that was the one. There were much simpler more obvious substitutions he could have made that would have made more of a direct impact and they should have been made earlier. Matt and pete0 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcirony Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 That first bits fair enough. I dont think he was playing for a draw either I just think it was a really backwards sub and my opinion is that if he does that 100 times it would probably work once and that was the one. There were much simpler more obvious substitutions he could have made that would have made more of a direct impact and they should have been made earlier. But there have been lots of occasions when we have brought strikers or attack minded midfielders on and we haven't scored. Where's the logic in that?! Fact is, there are no guarantees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 He played Barkley last match. He's tried 3 at the back. He's tried 2 strikers. Nothing he does 'other than go' will please some fans. There is a forum called 'The Everton Forum' which is full of negative views towards just about everything that would suit a few of you. There, you can slag Kenwright and Moyes off all day, and become popular by doing so. I'd rather quit posting than see TT end up the same way, so why don't a few of you start to find positives for a change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 But there have been lots of occasions when we have brought strikers or attack minded midfielders on and we haven't scored. Where's the logic in that?! Fact is, there are no guarantees. With 5 mins to go and normally for one of them to play out wide! Plus its actually worked quite well, Vic and Vellios both scoring late goals at the end of games in the last couple of seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 He played Barkley last match. He's tried 3 at the back. He's tried 2 strikers. Nothing he does 'other than go' will please some fans. There is a forum called 'The Everton Forum' which is full of negative views towards just about everything that would suit a few of you. There, you can slag Kenwright and Moyes off all day, and become popular by doing so. I'd rather quit posting than see TT end up the same way, so why don't a few of you start to find positives for a change? The 3 at the back and the inclusion (and sub in the previous game) of Barkley were welcomed. The 3 didnt really work as Im sure Moyes would have wanted but it was against the perfect team to do it and we got the result. Barkley came on and did well as he did against Spurs. What else is there to say about it? Maybe some people are just calling as they see it and giving their opinion... Shock horror. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcirony Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 The 3 at the back and the inclusion (and sub in the previous game) of Barkley were welcomed. The 3 didnt really work as Im sure Moyes would have wanted but it was against the perfect team to do it and we got the result. Barkley came on and did well as he did against Spurs. What else is there to say about it? Maybe some people are just calling as they see it and giving their opinion... Shock horror. 'Were welcomed' ?! it sounds like your select group are the board giving David Moyes his annual appraisal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 'Were welcomed' ?! it sounds like your select group are the board giving David Moyes his annual appraisal! Wtf? Select group... Jeeez Whats wrong with saying that its nice to see him changing a few things? EFC-Paul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcirony Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 Wtf? Select group... Jeeez Whats wrong with saying that its nice to see him changing a few things? Apologies, just a bit exasperated today. By select group I mean the people that want Moyes out, for whatever reasons, everyone's is different. Correct me if I'm wrong but I would consider you in that group?! I just worded it a bit bluntly. I just think sometimes praise is given very reluctantly, for example 'were welcomed', whereas criticism is always in abundance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 Apologies, just a bit exasperated today. By select group I mean the people that want Moyes out, for whatever reasons, everyone's is different. Correct me if I'm wrong but I would consider you in that group?! I just worded it a bit bluntly. I just think sometimes praise is given very reluctantly, for example 'were welcomed', whereas criticism is always in abundance. Fair enough I see where your coming from. Tbh Im past Moyes in or out now. I dont really care who is in charge, I just want to see the club progress. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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