If Moyes goes?

[Romey 1878]

I'm struggling to give a shit either way.

 

If he goes, fine. If he stays, fine.

[Brazil Banks]

The Daily Mail seem to think Moyes'll leave.

 

 

The Daily Mail seem to think that asylum seekers give you cancer so I wouldn't pay much attention that load of sh*te rag.

 

 

I'm struggling to give a shit either way.

 

If he goes, fine. If he stays, fine.

 

Couldn't agree more with this.

[Sideliner]

the commentators of the game also referred to Moyes possibly leaving as though they knew something more than they were prepared to say -

Moyes also looked suspiciously groomed on Saturday - not the old workmanlike Moyes that I have come to know but a new movie star Moyes in the fast lane of publicity and lots of media attention -

for him and for Everton I hope he gets the job - so maybe both can develop to their full potential or maybe just one of them or maybe neither -

I support Everton for entertainment and I am a bit tired of seeing the same movie on a Saturday for the past 11 years -

thanks Mr Moyes it was a good movie but enough is enough - for me at least

[Hafnia]

I'm struggling to give a shit either way.

 

If he goes, fine. If he stays, fine.

How can you say that? If he goes, we get relegated. There isn't anyone else out there who will manage the 4th most successful team in England, with an annual playing salary budget of £60m plus who have 35,000 fans attending a home fixture. How are we going to attract a replacement for a manager who earns £70k a week to deliver top half finishes???

 

Be careful what you wish for, we may get a manager who will bollock players for sitting back on one goal leads.

 

On a serious note, malky McKay has been linked.

[Sideliner]

PS - just remember - Mr Moyes's biggest commercial asset is that only after Sir Alex he is the best Brittish coach in the world - at least according to stats -

another peculiar fact is that the 3 best Brittish coaches on statistics alone are all ............... Scottish -

the 3rd one for those who did not know - is West Brom's Steve Clark

[pete0]

Just from this one line alone I'd give Biesla the job.

@TouchlineDrama
1h
Bielsa—"Playing good football is something we should always aim for. In theory, it is a game that should be decided by who is more creative"

[Avinalaff]

A few of you must have been quite haffy with the loss (mentioning no names) as it fuels your negative fires.

[pete0]

A few of you must have been quite haffy with the loss (mentioning no names) as it fuels your negative fires.

This week has showcased Moyes faults and Everton's need for a freshen up. Moyes almost took a step forward v Arsenal, but dithered in the second half, and reverted to his old self y'day with tired tactics, out of form regulars, and baffling subs.

[Avinalaff]

This week has showcased Moyes faults and Everton's need for a freshen up. Moyes almost took a step forward v Arsenal, but dithered in the second half, and reverted to his old self y'day with tired tactics, out of form regulars, and baffling subs.

 

Had he won against Arsenal, (no biggy to beat them at their home ground after all) he would have been fine?

 

He didn't, so showcased his faults?

 

It's important also to remember that Sunderland have a terrific squad, and were full of beans after their derby, not to mention the mad Italian.

 

Moyes didn't mess up. The players just don't have what it takes to get over a finishing line. To be winners, you need to be able to deal with winning, and not rely on others to gift it to you. We 'big' our players up too much, instead of being realistic about their pedigree.

 

Baines was totally shite, yet I've not heard anybody talking about lynch mobs yet, but hey ho, had that been Neville who gave the ball away, then as Ten might say, "BOOOOOOOOM !"

[pete0]

 

Had he won against Arsenal, (no biggy to beat them at their home ground after all) he would have been fine?

 

He didn't, so showcased his faults?

 

It's important also to remember that Sunderland have a terrific squad, and were full of beans after their derby, not to mention the mad Italian.

 

Moyes didn't mess up. The players just don't have what it takes to get over a finishing line. To be winners, you need to be able to deal with winning, and not rely on others to gift it to you. We 'big' our players up too much, instead of being realistic about their pedigree.

 

Baines was totally shite, yet I've not heard anybody talking about lynch mobs yet, but hey ho, had that been Neville who gave the ball away, then as Ten might say, "BOOOOOOOOM !"

Remember when Moyes made subs around the 70th minute mark and tried to win the game?

The Sunderland game was a lacklustre performance, not helped or possibly because of stale tactics and tired players.

I don't get the last 2 paragraphs, it sounds like you disagee but what your saying highlights Moyes regulars policy? I'd happily see Baines given a break when tired or dropped when not performing.

[Dalziel Kane]

If I see one more statement of 'if we lose David Moyes as manager, we will suffer a relegation', I'm going offshore. Maybe some, after 11 years of the Scot in charge have just been bored into submission or the mind isn't working on all fronts, or maybe I can't quite find the words to explain it, but the point is, if you truly believe the departure of Moyes as manager will see this club fall into the second division for the first time since the 1950s then maybe some need to give their head a shake, or be a little more optimistic, or even appear a bit panicked. When Moyes goes, and I don't think it will be too long in coming now, and a new face is installed, we'll be good enough. There's been to much insistence on safety first policies and defensive strategies (and going nowhere as a direct result of it) as far back as many can remember, and now there's a possibility we could have a new face in charge sometime soon, the usual season policy of 'let's be cautious' could go out the window and some would be panic-stricken as a new manager comes in and Armageddon will occur and a reckless dive to the depths of the league and a subsequent relegation. It's garbage. It's not going to happen. Said so before, maybe whoever takes over, won't be able to fully replicate the league success that Moyes has done every now and again, but all this relegation talk has got to quit. Guess we'll just await until it actually occurs, in that, Moyes departs and someone (after 11 years) comes in and has a go, but talk of a fall out to the second division is far fetched from this perspective. Fair enough, what some believe or prophesize is their business, but just can't entertain that thinking.

 

The fact of the matter is, we're facing another empty season. 11 years of the same manager, nothing won, 18 in total as to the last trophy won. Too bad to those who don't want to see the club win anything again. Fuck that, because I (and others) do want to see Everton as a winning team again. Even it had been the League Cup this year (a largely derided honor) it would have been something after so many years away. The Wigan game, for the last time, was a fucking embarrassment. All we had to do was beat a side at home in which the capabilities were there and same again, for a semi-final place and we could be in the FA cup Final again in a few short weeks. Ok Moyes wasn't 100 per cent culpable for that day, and the players did themselves no favors, but as manager of the team, all eyes should be focused on him as an individual. This will run and run until the time finally arrives when Moyes finally does leave, but I can't change the thinking on wanting him gone this close season and someone else to come in and have a go and see where it takes us. Not down to the championship league damn it. Feel I'm wasting time once again, but it's really going nowhere.

[Avinalaff]

Remember when Moyes made subs around the 70th minute mark and tried to win the game?

The Sunderland game was a lacklustre performance, not helped or possibly because of stale tactics and tired players.

I don't get the last 2 paragraphs, it sounds like you disagee but what your saying highlights Moyes regulars policy? I'd happily see Baines given a break when tired or dropped when not performing.

 

We have such a small squad in terms of strength it's untrue Pete.

 

We, as fans, tend to believe that what is on the bench could well be better than what gets on the pitch a lot of the time, but they must be even worse, or Moyes and Round would surely choose them.

 

The only head scratch I get is when Naismith gets games, as I'm not seeing any gain from his presence now, other than resting somebody. It reminds me a bit of Alan Partridge in a Rugby game. It just doesn't seem to work.

 

I'm now convinced that if we are to take the next step, we need to get shut of the Prima Donnas and underperformers in the team, and inject some fresh passion.

 

For me, say goodbye to Fellaini, Osman, Pienaar, Neville, Hibbert, and Distin (for no bad reason but age) Heitinga, and maybe even Baines, as I personally think he isn't working as hard as he used to, and bring in players who have some balls. Naismith and Hitz need to go too.

 

Fellaini 'must' go, as there is too much focus on him. Osman for me always takes the easy option, and is rarely creative, and not enough willing to run into space to give the player on the ball options. Neville has served us well, but his time has come. Distin doesn't look quite as good as he was. Heitinga is unsettled and as such inconsistent, and Baines doesn't look arsed sometimes. Hibbert will find it hard to get back in the team, and might have to call time. Naismith offers little, and Hitz has not progressed. Gueye won't return I feel.

 

It's harsh, but if I were manager, that would be considered.

[Bailey]

 

Had he won against Arsenal, (no biggy to beat them at their home ground after all) he would have been fine?

 

He didn't, so showcased his faults?

 

It's important also to remember that Sunderland have a terrific squad, and were full of beans after their derby, not to mention the mad Italian.

 

Moyes didn't mess up. The players just don't have what it takes to get over a finishing line. To be winners, you need to be able to deal with winning, and not rely on others to gift it to you. We 'big' our players up too much, instead of being realistic about their pedigree.

 

Baines was totally shite, yet I've not heard anybody talking about lynch mobs yet, but hey ho, had that been Neville who gave the ball away, then as Ten might say, "BOOOOOOOOM !"

Baines has been mentioned on the match day threads for the last couple of weeks being below form.

 

The difference is Baines is one of the best players in the league, he has been consistently one of the best Everton players over the last 3 or 4 seasons and even when be has a poor game he is still better than your average Premier League full back.

 

Neville has offered very little on the field for the last 3 or 4 seasons. He has held his own here and there but he has never really offered us anything special on the pitch. In the last couple of seasons his good games are what you would expect from an average PL midfielder.

 

It would be incredibly fickle if Everton fans turned on Baines for a couple of below par games. He has been poor, Im sure he knows that and people have commented on that but you wont see Baines out comments because he is such an important player who is just a little out of form. I think its ridiculous that you can even compare the two situations.

[Avinalaff]

Baines has been mentioned on the match day threads for the last couple of weeks being below form.

 

The difference is Baines is one of the best players in the league, he has been consistently one of the best Everton players over the last 3 or 4 seasons and even when be has a poor game he is still better than your average Premier League full back.

 

Neville has offered very little on the field for the last 3 or 4 seasons. He has held his own here and there but he has never really offered us anything special on the pitch. In the last couple of seasons his good games are what you would expect from an average PL midfielder.

 

It would be incredibly fickle if Everton fans turned on Baines for a couple of below par games. He has been poor, Im sure he knows that and people have commented on that but you wont see Baines out comments because he is such an important player who is just a little out of form. I think its ridiculous that you can even compare the two situations.

 

Absolute tosh.

 

Same crime same punishment. Same effort same praise. That's how it should work.

[Bailey]

 

Absolute tosh.

 

Same crime same punishment. Same effort same praise. That's how it should work.

Is it bollocks.

 

Players will have bad games its impossible for them not to. If Neville plays well he gets a well done, same with Baines. If they both play shit they both get criticism.

 

If one player is consistently below the level expected then the fans will start to turn. This is the category Neville is in. Baines has been top class this season and he will come good again. In fact we will see a much better performance from Baines when we start keeping hold of the ball higher up the pitch so that we can get him involved.

[Avinalaff]

Is it bollocks.

 

Players will have bad games its impossible for them not to. If Neville plays well he gets a well done, same with Baines. If they both play shit they both get criticism.

 

If one player is consistently below the level expected then the fans will start to turn. This is the category Neville is in. Baines has been top class this season and he will come good again. In fact we will see a much better performance from Baines when we start keeping hold of the ball higher up the pitch so that we can get him involved.

 

Absolute Jabberwocky

 

This is a professional football team. You don't excuse costly mistakes because of past performances. You are judged on every display and any previous performances are irrelevant. There are no excuses for poor effort at that level. It's not schoolboy soccer.

[SimonButtle]

I don't think it's Baines tbh. I think the sudden decline of Steven Pienaars form means that their usually formidable partnership just isn't there. However as i said in another thread, Moyes has Oviedophobia sadly, so for now we are stuck with Pienaar and stuck with a slightly subdued Baines.

[Steve_E]

Honestly, given the financial reality of the PL, us getting into the Champions League would be a huge accomplishment and for us to drop into the Championship, a lot of people at the club would have to royally screw up. I would really just like to see us play a more enjoyable brand of football. Passing and good positioning to keep possession on offense, intense pressure high up the pitch on defense and quick counter attacks. We'd associate our name with progressive tactics, one of the frontrunners in the league if you will, and I'm sure we're going to pick up some extra points here and there as well. The sides currently above us are always going to have more talent than us (unless they really waste their money on players like Henderson, Carroll, Downing and the likes; but Liverpool seem to have seen the light as well buying players like Suarez and Coutinho).

 

This core of players built by Moyes is getting past their prime age-wise and some are gone already (Arteta, Cahill, now Neville too) and he's out of a contract this summer. I'd give the job to a different manager, one with the right tactical profile, and let him build a new, younger squad for the next couples of years.

[Steve_E]

 

Absolute Jabberwocky

 

This is a professional football team. You don't excuse costly mistakes because of past performances. You are judged on every display and any previous performances are irrelevant. There are no excuses for poor effort at that level. It's not schoolboy soccer.

 

You really don't see the difference? Neville is generally below average to average, because he lacks a number of attributes required to play his position (speed, agility, technique), hence people would like him to be moved on. Baines is generally average to good and he has the majority of the attributes required to play his position (and he's way above average in some of them), that's why people don't shout "BAINES OUT" when he does have a bad game.

[Bailey]

 

Absolute Jabberwocky

 

This is a professional football team. You don't excuse costly mistakes because of past performances. You are judged on every display and any previous performances are irrelevant. There are no excuses for poor effort at that level. It's not schoolboy soccer.

Haha dont go all sci-fi on me!

 

I agree with what you say and thats whats happened. Im not excusing Baines and I called him a few names after that pass! However Im not going to start calling for him to be dropped because of it. That would be fickle.

[Avinalaff]

Honestly, given the financial reality of the PL, us getting into the Champions League would be a huge accomplishment and for us to drop into the Championship, a lot of people at the club would have to royally screw up. I would really just like to see us play a more enjoyable brand of football. Passing and good positioning to keep possession on offense, intense pressure high up the pitch on defense and quick counter attacks. We'd associate our name with progressive tactics, one of the frontrunners in the league if you will, and I'm sure we're going to pick up some extra points here and there as well. The sides currently above us are always going to have more talent than us (unless they really waste their money on players like Henderson, Carroll, Downing and the likes; but Liverpool seem to have seen the light as well buying players like Suarez and Coutinho).

 

This core of players built by Moyes is getting past their prime age-wise and some are gone already (Arteta, Cahill, now Neville too) and he's out of a contract this summer. I'd give the job to a different manager, one with the right tactical profile, and let him build a new, younger squad for the next couples of years.

 

Isn't Moyes bringing in young players for the future already?

 

We have Kennedy, and Stones as recent acquisitions for example.

[Avinalaff]

Haha dont go all sci-fi on me!

 

I agree with what you say and thats whats happened. Im not excusing Baines and I called him a few names after that pass! However Im not going to start calling for him to be dropped because of it. That would be fickle.

 

Why wouldn't you drop him?

 

A drop can be beneficial to both Baines and indeed his replacement. It's not just punishment. If he is out of form, break the routine. The problem when you are chasing success is it's hard to experiment, but Moyes must trust in his instincts and rotate occasionally.

[Avinalaff]

 

You really don't see the difference? Neville is generally below average to average, because he lacks a number of attributes required to play his position (speed, agility, technique), hence people would like him to be moved on. Baines is generally average to good and he has the majority of the attributes required to play his position (and he's way above average in some of them), that's why people don't shout "BAINES OUT" when he does have a bad game.

 

I see the difference in the players, sure, but Nev is at the end of a career.

 

For me, treat all players the same though. Support them all, criticise them all, applaud them all. If Nev needs replacing, then that's what is needed, but don't treat him worse as a result. Baines needs to buck up, just like everybody else.

[Steve_E]

 

Isn't Moyes bringing in young players for the future already?

 

We have Kennedy, and Stones as recent acquisitions for example.

 

Of course, and with Mirallas and Oviedo as well, but there's still a long way to go, and I'd like that to be done by a different manager because of the reasons I stated in the first paragraph. (I'd like a different brand of football and we need players that fit into that football)

Edited April 21, 2013 by Steve_E

[Bailey]

 

Why wouldn't you drop him?

 

A drop can be beneficial to both Baines and indeed his replacement. It's not just punishment. If he is out of form, break the routine. The problem when you are chasing success is it's hard to experiment, but Moyes must trust in his instincts and rotate occasionally.

Personally I wouldnt drop him for two reasons.

 

The first is because I dont necessarily think his poor form is entirely his own doing. We arent keeping hold of the ball in the opposition half and he cant get forward as he would like to normally. Pienaar isnt helping much either and of the two I would readily drop him first.

 

Secondly we dont have a viable option at left back. We have no idea about Oviedo's suitability or Garbutt's and I dont want to see Distin employed there ever again!

[Guest]

I can't see how you can criticise Baines to be honest granted at the moment he isnt showing his best form but is he playing apalling? no. Is he just merely playing to the same level as everybody else? yes. I think the fact that over the last few games against Stoke we played five at the back which limited him and changed his game and the last two games his partner in crime Pienaar has been utter shite. Leaving Baines exposed when going forward and defending. This season we would have been comfortably in top four with a 20 plus goalscorer. Felliani is our top scorer with eleven. In the Premier league there are small margins, where would Spurs be without Bale? The thing that annoys me with Moyes is that he teters at times to be a vibrant attacking manager. Some of our play at Villa, Swansea and Fulham at the start of the season were some of the best football ive seen everton play since we last won the league but then it stops. We go a goal up and sit back and allow teams back in the game. Im sorry, for the money Moyes is getting that shouldnt happen we should be beating teams 4-5 nil how often does that happen?

I go back and forth agonising whether he should stay or not part of me wants him to stay but a big part of me wants something new. There is always fear of the unknown but lets face it football is a simple game and we would be doing a disservice to ourselves if we think its only Moyes that can manage on a budget. If we could get a Laudrup lined up id say do it i might even be happy with Poyet. He seems positive and plays attacking football, vastly experienced as a player can spot a player and players would respect him. Outside bet would be Bilic.

[Hafnia]

Lets be honest, moyes buying young players, is like me buying clobber from primark for holidays. You buy them thinking you'll wear them, but in reality you only do so when you've stained you old favourite branded gear.

[Avinalaff]

What if there was a rumour about Phil Neville becoming the next manager?

[Guest]

well i would put it in the rumour section for a start...................

[Hafnia]

What if there was a rumour about Phil Neville becoming the next manager?

Less worrying than him being rumoured to play in midfield.