If Moyes goes?

[Avinalaff]

we know what we have in Moyes - lots and lots of consistency but no silverware - some of us have seen enough of that for 11 years now -

a change is as good as holiday they say - look at Southampton and Sunderland as examples of clubs that have bitten the bullet for the better -

we must certainly let Moyes go if we can find somebody better - that is called progress - loyalty is something different -

lets respect each others views - and debate the facts instead of trying to suppress any point of view -

you will find very few if any so called negative posters attacking the so called positive posters just for being constantly positive -

don't tell anybody to be positive or negative - tell them why - with good arguments and facts -

vigorous debate can only get us all thinking for ourselves and questioning our own views with those of others - in the interest of Everton

 

Should we all get divorced after a certain time then?

[EFC-Paul]

This is the point Av Sideliner has posted possibly the most sensible post I've seen on here for some time and it's met with a reply that has no logical tie to football or what was meant.

 

It seem's to me the more so called positive posters on here are the ones turning it into a negative and tiresome place of late. It's not a personal dig at you mate but some of the stuff on here is like listening to school kids debate who's dads the hardest.

[Dalziel Kane]

What the fuck is Moyes doing on MOTD?

 

Have I missed something here?

 

would have been feasible if Queens Park Rangers had been at home as they're only a stones throw away from the BBC studios in White City, but the game being in Liverpool, you do have to question it. As someone stated, it's not his first time in the studio, but even so.

[Sideliner]

someone said they saw on Twitter that Moyes is on the short list of 3 for the Chelsea job with Jose Mourinho and another -

MOTD appearance - they say any publicity is better than no publicity

[Avinalaff]

This is the point Av Sideliner has posted possibly the most sensible post I've seen on here for some time and it's met with a reply that has no logical tie to football or what was meant.

 

It seem's to me the more so called positive posters on here are the ones turning it into a negative and tiresome place of late. It's not a personal dig at you mate but some of the stuff on here is like listening to school kids debate who's dads the hardest.

 

Paul, Sideliner wants a change because he feels 11 years are 'long enough'.

 

My slant on that is that life is able to offer a variation on a daily basis, regardless of who is in charge, or who our life partners are, and the fact that Moyes has been here for 11 years is totally irrelevant.

 

His examples of Southampton and Sunderland 'sacking their managers' as though we should follow the same, is quite astonishing, and equally ridiculous, when you consider that both were kneejerk reactions to the threat of relegation, whilst Moyes has threatened European qualification.

 

How on earth you have come to the conclusion that his post is one of the best you have read puzzles me, but you are welcome to your opinion, even if you can't understand the relevance of my previous post.

 

For better or for worse Paul. Moyes is quite a manager.

[EFC-Paul]

Sensible being the key word as things have been for me anyway getting abit silly on here. I understand Your point but sadly football and relationships tend to be very different or I'd be minted by putting bets on each week I won't be getting laid...

 

I agree Moyes has been great for Everton no question or doubt about it and I'm fully in agreement on that but i can see why some are getting fed up also just as I do at times for multiple reasons.

 

I really do expect Moyes to be here next season and I'm not against that being the case as I feel the board will see it as being make or brake on Moyes and his time here and will give him what ever funds and assurances they can....hopefully!!

[Guest]

 

would have been feasible if Queens Park Rangers had been at home as they're only a stones throw away from the BBC studios in White City, but the game being in Liverpool, you do have to question it. As someone stated, it's not his first time in the studio, but even so.

BBC Studios are in Salford now

[Guest]

Sensible being the key word as things have been for me anyway getting abit silly on here. I understand Your point but sadly football and relationships tend to be very different or I'd be minted by putting bets on each week I won't be getting laid...

 

I agree Moyes has been great for Everton no question or doubt about it and I'm fully in agreement on that but i can see why some are getting fed up also just as I do at times for multiple reasons.

 

I really do expect Moyes to be here next season and I'm not against that being the case as I feel the board will see it as being make or brake on Moyes and his time here and will give him what ever funds and assurances they can....hopefully!!

Gotta agree with Moysies recent comments about rebuilding and with a good ending to the season i can see him wetting his whistle for next year

[Avinalaff]

Sensible being the key word as things have been for me anyway getting abit silly on here. I understand Your point but sadly football and relationships tend to be very different or I'd be minted by putting bets on each week I won't be getting laid...

 

I agree Moyes has been great for Everton no question or doubt about it and I'm fully in agreement on that but i can see why some are getting fed up also just as I do at times for multiple reasons.

 

I really do expect Moyes to be here next season and I'm not against that being the case as I feel the board will see it as being make or brake on Moyes and his time here and will give him what ever funds and assurances they can....hopefully!!

 

'Why' are some getting fed up Paul?

 

We compete at the top end of the table.

We play great football most of the time.

We have enjoyed Wembley.

We have enjoyed European football.

We have top stars at our club.

Our ticket prices are competitive.

Our manager is a great representative for the club.

 

If you want a Premier League trophy it's asking a bit much.

If you want an FA Cup trophy we've only done that 5 times in our entire history, so it's asking a lot.

If you want top 4, Moyes has done this, and might do it again.

 

What more can you ask from a manager with no funding, when everybody he is competing against has enormous funding.

[Steve_E]

 

'Why' are some getting fed up Paul?

 

We compete at the top end of the table.

We play great football most of the time.

We have enjoyed Wembley.

We have enjoyed European football.

We have top stars at our club.

Our ticket prices are competitive.

Our manager is a great representative for the club.

 

If you want a Premier League trophy it's asking a bit much.

If you want an FA Cup trophy we've only done that 5 times in our entire history, so it's asking a lot.

If you want top 4, Moyes has done this, and might do it again.

 

What more can you ask from a manager with no funding, when everybody he is competing against has enormous funding.

 

Part in bold is debatable. Europe has been awhile too.

[Avinalaff]

 

Part in bold is debatable. Europe has been awhile too.

 

Oh for crying out loud !

 

Try supporting QPR right now.

[EFC-Paul]

Again mate I agree and on a whole in general things on that front are ok but then there are other subjects that draw negativity like the board money and the future of the club and how it's going to progress and for me the points of people like Haf are perfectly justifiable.

 

 

I think the problems some have and don't have are matters on a shorter basis like weekly rather then the bigger picture as you put it Av. Your never really going to get the perfect scenario far from it infact at a club with our very limited financial situation but I do feel a lot of points that are jumped upon regarding Moyes the board and so on at times are perfectly valid.

 

Either way what ever happens in the coming months will happen whether we like it or not I just hope we can secure a Europa spot and maybe coupled with the Moyes situation it will give us the chance to add more quality and finally make that extra push for next season.

[Avinalaff]

Again mate I agree and on a whole in general things on that front are ok but then there are other subjects that draw negativity like the board money and the future of the club and how it's going to progress and for me the points of people like Haf are perfectly justifiable.

 

 

I think the problems some have and don't have are matters on a shorter basis like weekly rather then the bigger picture as you put it Av. Your never really going to get the perfect scenario far from it infact at a club with our very limited financial situation but I do feel a lot of points that are jumped upon regarding Moyes the board and so on at times are perfectly valid.

 

Either way what ever happens in the coming months will happen whether we like it or not I just hope we can secure a Europa spot and maybe coupled with the Moyes situation it will give us the chance to add more quality and finally make that extra push for next season.

 

Paul, know that I don't have issues with Haf.

 

Many think that because we have opposing views that we are black and white, but I am a lot more fond of Haf than some give me credit for. I just don't agree with a lot of the constant negativity. I am aware that Moyes isn't perfect, but is he not allowed to learn like anybody else?

 

Ferguson is 71 years old. Wenger is 63. Redknapp is 66. Hodgson 65. I can go on but you get the point.

 

Moyes is 49. He is a young manager, and what he is not good at now, he has time. For me, the journey of Everton is in safe hands while Moyes is at the wheel, and the longer he is there, the better he will become.

 

Swapping for another manager because of a few flaws is very harsh, not to mention risky.

 

Write down a list of all the attributes a Prem manager should have, and Moyes will tick more boxes than most. Those who are too impatient for success need to ask themselves whether as fans, they are a help, or a hindrance, to the long term future of the club.

[Dalziel Kane]

'Impatient for success'. It's been 11 year with Moyes and nothing won. How much patience do you need.

[Avinalaff]

'Impatient for success'. It's been 11 year with Moyes and nothing won. How much patience do you need.

 

How will your life change Dalziel if we were to win something?

 

Are you so desperate for the club to win something in order to give meaning to your own life? You don't even watch Everton matches by your own admission. Do you just support the notion of being a fan? Heck, you have an AC Milan avatar.

 

I really don't get your need for a trophy as a deal breaker with Moyes.

[Dalziel Kane]

Yeah, I'd feel so much better if the club were to win something again. I'd be the epitome of joy and euphoria.

 

Damn well realize it won't make that much difference to individual lives but it's somethimg many would like to see again after nearly two decades without anything won. Not really desperate to see it, but there will be some supporters that eager to see something again in what may even be a last time. I don't have a problem with Moyes, but so long as he remains in charge, we're simply not going to do it again. This is going nowhere, I'm trying to watch a movie, and simply going over old territory.

 

Just keep Moyes in charge.for years or all eternity. Some people would like to see the club win something again but all this fucking stability banality and Moyes mundane approaches aren't for everyone. Maybe they've just given up, I don't know. This is all for another time.

[Bill]

Yeah, I'd feel so much better if the club were to win something again. I'd be the epitome of joy and euphoria.

 

Damn well realize it won't make that much difference to individual lives but it's somethimg many would like to see again after nearly two decades without anything won. Not really desperate to see it, but there will be some supporters that eager to see something again in what may even be a last time. I don't have a problem with Moyes, but so long as he remains in charge, we're simply not going to do it again. This is going nowhere, I'm trying to watch a movie, and simply going over old territory.

 

Just keep Moyes in charge.for years or all eternity. Some people would like to see the club win something again but all this fucking stability banality and Moyes mundane approaches aren't for everyone. Maybe they've just given up, I don't know. This is all for another time.

 

Go ask Notts County fans and see if they would prefer to have a manager who virtually guarantees a top half finish every year, they would jump at the Idea.

 

Notts County Football Club often known as Notts or County is a professional club based in Nottingham, England. They are the oldest football club in the world that are now professional, having been formed in 1862, 28 November 2012 being the 150th anniversary. Between 1888–89 and 2011–12 they have played a total of 4,664 Football League matches – more than any other English team. They currently play in League One of The Football League, the third tier in the English football league system. County play their home games at Meadow Lane in black and white striped shirts.

The club has had several spells in the top division of English football, most recently in 1991–92, when County played in the old First Division. Notable former managers of Notts County include Jimmy Sirrel, Howard Wilkinson, Neil Warnock, Howard Kendall and Sam Allardyce.The club has had several owners. In the 21st century, a series of financial problems has seen the club owned by a Supporters' trust, who sold the club to Munto Finance – a subsidiary of Qadbak Investments.

Further monetary difficulties saw the club sold again, for a nominal fee to Peter Trembling, who then sold the club again to Ray Trew for £1 after the club had been served with two winding up petitions from HM Revenue and Customs, due to demands for a late PAYE payment of around £500,000.

The moral of the story is the two decades mentioned.

From 1992 in the top tier to oblivion by 2012 with dozens of managers, some of whom were thought to be good managers at the time.

Be careful what you wish for.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Bill

[mcirony]

I'm pretty sure given the chance to be 4 points off 3rd place after 32 games at the start of the season we would ALL have taken that. Surely?!

 

Yes we have been knocked out of the cups, embarrassingly in both cases but it does happen. Man Utd haven't won the FA cup for nearly 10 years I think and they spend significantly more than us to have a bigger squad.

 

Whenever I feel frustrated or annoyed I just look at the table. Yes there are 'what might have been if..' feelings sometimes because we could be higher, but I'm sure Arsenal, Spurs and Man City feel the same way. That's football, we'd all win 'if'....

[StevO]

If we dont watch football with the hope of winning, why watch it at all?

Why do anything if you dont crave success? I want to see Everton win every game we play, as soon as i dont care whether we win or not, i wouldnt see the point anymore.

 

Sport is all about competition, ask the players in the squad, im sure they will agree. Its not the taking part that counts, thats for kids in school to keep everyone happy, its the winning that counts.

 

 

Before I hear someone say if you just want to see a team win then follow United, i dont, I want to see Everton win.

[Hafnia]

There are valid points from both sides, the facts are there to see, moyes has done a really good job if you look at where we were when he took over. People kinda forget that and look at where we are and where do we want to get to - but thats life. The club needs to evolve in more ways than one.

 

• Commercially we are dinosaurs, bog standard deals are feted like some sort of victory for the new elstone regime. From being a pioneering club, we are now a reactive club.

• Board room ?. Any club that silences the voice of shareholders by banning AGM's is a joke. It's not a case of having something to hide, it's the difficulty they have in trying to justify what it is they are actually doing within the corridors of power that they are trying to avoid. They have very little trust and they only have themselves to blame. At times I almost feel sorry for Kenwright but that is quickly replaced by exasperation. His little chums allow him ot take round after round of abuse - warranted or not - where are they? They are part of this.
  
• New TV rights, this is not necessarily a good thing for us, the opposition are getting the same and the wages structure and transfers fees are going to go through a bubble. We will find it even more difficult to hold onto the stars we have when the contract renewals etc have average players earning £50k a week plus. We will have to extend our talent acquisition to the foreign leagues even moreso - that is also a reason why I would like Laudrup or Martinez.

 

The game is going to go through a massive change, and I feel we don't have the right people to see us through this.

 

Anyway, football aside, 24 years ago today the game changed forever, Never to be forgotten - Justice for the 96.

[mcirony]

There are valid points from both sides, the facts are there to see, moyes has done a really good job if you look at where we were when he took over. People kinda forget that and look at where we are and where do we want to get to - but thats life. The club needs to evolve in more ways than one.

 

• Commercially we are dinosaurs, bog standard deals are feted like some sort of victory for the new elstone regime. From being a pioneering club, we are now a reactive club.

• Board room ?. Any club that silences the voice of shareholders by banning AGM's is a joke. It's not a case of having something to hide, it's the difficulty they have in trying to justify what it is they are actually doing within the corridors of power that they are trying to avoid. They have very little trust and they only have themselves to blame. At times I almost feel sorry for Kenwright but that is quickly replaced by exasperation. His little chums allow him ot take round after round of abuse - warranted or not - where are they? They are part of this.

• New TV rights, this is not necessarily a good thing for us, the opposition are getting the same and the wages structure and transfers fees are going to go through a bubble. We will find it even more difficult to hold onto the stars we have when the contract renewals etc have average players earning £50k a week plus. We will have to extend our talent acquisition to the foreign leagues even moreso - that is also a reason why I would like Laudrup or Martinez.

The game is going to go through a massive change, and I feel we don't have the right people to see us through this.

 

Anyway, football aside, 24 years ago today the game changed forever, Never to be forgotten - Justice for the 96.

All good points Haf, I think we actually agree on most things - particularly the board, commercial dealings etc.

I don't think Moyes does too bad in the foreign market though.

 

SteveO- I didn't want to make out like I was satisfied with not winning anything, but I'm just tying to look at the positives. Finishing strongly in the league puts us in a better position financially and makes us more appealing in the market for next season. I believe we have stronger team now than we did last season and I like to think that next season if we can make a couple of good signings (with or without Felli money), we can push on. I know there is not much room for sentimentality in football, but if we are able to strengthen the squad in the summer, Moyes deserves to be the man to spend it and have a real crack.

Edited April 15, 2013 by MoyesForPM

[StevO]

I wasnt aiming it at you, i was just stating in general that its about winning otherwise it wouldnt be competition.

[Avinalaff]

I wasnt aiming it at you, i was just stating in general that its about winning otherwise it wouldnt be competition.

 

Ste, can't you use the quote facility mate?

[StevO]

Hasn't been working on my mobile app.

[Avinalaff]

Hasn't been working on my mobile app.

 

NP matey. Just difficult to follow when it's a few posts down.

[mcirony]

I wasnt aiming it at you, i was just stating in general that its about winning otherwise it wouldnt be competition.

I understand that it's all about competition, I doubt there's a person on here that doesn't want us to win every game!

[Avinalaff]

Everybody wants the best for their team, and every fan wants their team to win, but at what point do we put our hopes for the team above everything else?

 

We're not playing a pc game. Moyes is a real person, and in my opinion has done everything possibly expected from him, and then some. I like having the guy as manager. It's better than having some mercenary manager who goes from club to club like Redknapp or Allardyce, chasing the money, and shitting on the team they manage by taking what they think is a better offer from a bigger club.

 

Moyes has stayed loyal to Everton throughout, and those that think he hasn't been offered other jobs are more than a little naïve.

 

For a team with some very cheap players in it, we play some great football, so those who think he isn't able to get us playing are talking crap.

 

Fellaini for me is just another Everton player. If he wants to leave, he will leave, and the same goes for Baines. We're not a platform for individual players to stand upon. We're a team, and all players have the same standing.

 

Let us sell those that don't want to stay, and see if Moyes can't put the money towards others, yet again.

 

If they all want to stay, then fantastic. One or 2 more signings and we are as good as anybody.

 

Lose Moyes though, and we are in unchartered territory, and things could go very wrong for us indeed. Fans who are prepared to risk that, don't strike me as anything but glory hunters, who as long as they see the team win a trophy, have little care for anybody else.

 

They're not fans of the club, but fans of their own needs, and use the club in the hope it can add a little light to their sad pathetic little lives. Let Everton do what Everton will, and support them whilst they do it - or don't.

[Hafnia]

Everybody wants the best for their team, and every fan wants their team to win, but at what point do we put our hopes for the team above everything else?

 

We're not playing a pc game. Moyes is a real person, and in my opinion has done everything possibly expected from him, and then some. I like having the guy as manager. It's better than having some mercenary manager who goes from club to club like Redknapp or Allardyce, chasing the money, and shitting on the team they manage by taking what they think is a better offer from a bigger club.

 

Moyes has stayed loyal to Everton throughout, and those that think he hasn't been offered other jobs are more than a little naïve.

 

For a team with some very cheap players in it, we play some great football, so those who think he isn't able to get us playing are talking crap.

 

Fellaini for me is just another Everton player. If he wants to leave, he will leave, and the same goes for Baines. We're not a platform for individual players to stand upon. We're a team, and all players have the same standing.

 

Let us sell those that don't want to stay, and see if Moyes can't put the money towards others, yet again.

 

If they all want to stay, then fantastic. One or 2 more signings and we are as good as anybody.

 

Lose Moyes though, and we are in unchartered territory, and things could go very wrong for us indeed. Fans who are prepared to risk that, don't strike me as anything but glory hunters, who as long as they see the team win a trophy, have little care for anybody else.

 

They're not fans of the club, but fans of their own needs, and use the club in the hope it can add a little light to their sad pathetic little lives. Let Everton do what Everton will, and support them whilst they do it - or don't.

 

 

I thought it was well balanced right up until

 

"Lose Moyes though, and we are in unchartered territory, and things could go very wrong for us indeed. Fans who are prepared to risk that, don't strike me as anything but glory hunters, who as long as they see the team win a trophy, have little care for anybody else.

They're not fans of the club, but fans of their own needs, and use the club in the hope it can add a little light to their sad pathetic little lives. Let Everton do what Everton will, and support them whilst they do it - or don't."

 

Thats a strong generalisation - I'm prepared for moyes to go and happy to see new setwardship from boardroom to the bootroom - so therefore im a glory hunter who has little care for anyone else and i've got a sad pathetic little life?

 

I like to think that our club is due more than what we are getting, and that is not a criticism of Moyes, I like Moyes but i'm all for evolution. How can evertonians be glory hunters? We haven't won any silverwear since 1995?

Edited April 15, 2013 by Hafnia

[Avinalaff]

 

 

I thought it was well balanced right up until

 

"Lose Moyes though, and we are in unchartered territory, and things could go very wrong for us indeed. Fans who are prepared to risk that, don't strike me as anything but glory hunters, who as long as they see the team win a trophy, have little care for anybody else.

They're not fans of the club, but fans of their own needs, and use the club in the hope it can add a little light to their sad pathetic little lives. Let Everton do what Everton will, and support them whilst they do it - or don't."

 

Well mate, I think a few lads need to be a little less embroiled in their own selfish needs.

 

Being a supporter is about offering support. It isn't about presuming control and making changes. If we just want to replace everybody, why bother supporting them in the first place?

 

"Out with the board"

"Out with Moyes"

"Drop Neville"

"We want a new stadium"

"We want trophies"

 

 

All sounds a little like "me me me" sometimes.

 

Sick and tired of hearing it to be honest.

[Hafnia]

 

Well mate, I think a few lads need to be a little less embroiled in their own selfish needs.

 

Being a supporter is about offering support. It isn't about presuming control and making changes. If we just want to replace everybody, why bother supporting them in the first place?

 

"Out with the board"

"Out with Moyes"

"Drop Neville"

"We want a new stadium"

"We want trophies"

 

 

All sounds a little like "me me me" sometimes.

 

Sick and tired of hearing it to be honest.

 

Unfortunately Av that is football all there for you. Everyone wants the best for their club relevant to their peers. Did Man City fans say "League 2 will do, Man United are in a different league to us". What did they get? They got the fans through the gates, the got promotions, they dared to dream, they got the stadium, they got the investement, they got the players and now they've got trophies.

 

For me anyone who is prepared to accept second best deserves second best. Nobody wants Moyes sacked... but people are happy for him to leave and let someone with a different philosophy continue the good work he has done. David Moyes is not the only manager for Everton, why do people fear change? Change doesn't always come with negative consequences - if you make a bad appointment - then change it. Fergie has signed lemons over the years - he doesn't hold on to them - he replaces them. He hasn't done bad overall has he?

 

I like Arsene Wenger - good man, been a great manager, but he's been there too long. They may come good again, but he needs a new challenge. The board and chairman relationships can be too comfortable, they need to be tested.