If Moyes goes?

[Avinalaff]

 

Unfortunately Av that is football all there for you. Everyone wants the best for their club relevant to their peers. Did Man City fans say "League 2 will do, Man United are in a different league to us". What did they get? They got the fans through the gates, the got promotions, they dared to dream, they got the stadium, they got the investement, they got the players and now they've got trophies.

 

For me anyone who is prepared to accept second best deserves second best. Nobody wants Moyes sacked... but people are happy for him to leave and let someone with a different philosophy continue the good work he has done. David Moyes is not the only manager for Everton, why do people fear change? Change doesn't always come with negative consequences - if you make a bad appointment - then change it. Fergie has signed lemons over the years - he doesn't hold on to them - he replaces them. He hasn't done bad overall has he?

 

I like Arsene Wenger - good man, been a great manager, but he's been there too long. They may come good again, but he needs a new challenge. The board and chairman relationships can be too comfortable, they need to be tested.

 

You sound like a Liverpool fan Haf.

 

What exactly do City fans have 'this season' ?

 

For all their money, they're back to being chumps to United. They were showed up in Europe, and have won nothing yet again. Everton beat them with the same ease as we beat QPR. All I see in you is jealousy mate, but jealousy of what?

 

Evertonians have much more than City have. We have our club, and we have our manager, and we have our team, and we have our stadium, and it's memories, and all of it is Everton; not some fly by night project of a rich mans impulsive hobby.

 

Do you fuck your friends off because you meet somebody with a fancier job? Do you fuck your family off because of a bird with false tits and long lashes? I really have little time for materialistic people.

 

It will serve many fans right if we lose Moyes and are soon relegated. Still, as long as we win the FA Cup first though, eh mate?

[StevO]

Av it sounds more like you think we cant survive without Moyes. He's done a great job, everyone knows that. But if Moyes leaves in the summer you'll still be an Everton fan wont you? As much as the club is bigger than any player, its also bigger than any manager.

 

If fans were just happy to accept and not want to push forward you would be supporting a team probably still owned by Peter Johnson. It was fan power that shifted him, fans who expected better. Lets not pretend that Everton fans complaining is a new thing.

 

Our motto says it all, if we dont stand by it we might as well remove it from the shirt. I'm not saying we should be challenging for the league either, its just not realistic right now. But i'm not scared we will drop down to the bad days if people high up the food chain are replaced with new blood, progress can happen.

 

We have this history we are all proud of, if it wasnt for winners in our history, people progressing and pushing this club forward, we wouldnt have that history.

Edited April 15, 2013 by StevO

[Hafnia]

 

You sound like a Liverpool fan Haf.

 

What exactly do City fans have 'this season' ?

 

For all their money, they're back to being chumps to United. They were showed up in Europe, and have won nothing yet again. Everton beat them with the same ease as we beat QPR. All I see in you is jealousy mate, but jealousy of what?

 

Evertonians have much more than City have. We have our club, and we have our manager, and we have our team, and we have our stadium, and it's memories, and all of it is Everton; not some fly by night project of a rich mans impulsive hobby.

 

Do you fuck your friends off because you meet somebody with a fancier job? Do you fuck your family off because of a bird with false tits and long lashes? I really have little time for materialistic people.

 

It will serve many fans right if we lose Moyes and are soon relegated. Still, as long as we win the FA Cup first though, eh mate?

 

You see, this is what pother posters are referring to that you seem to ignore and carry on doing.... "you sound like a Liverpool fan" "jealousy" "materialistic"..... why are you judging people and insulting people because of their opinions???

 

You criticise those who wants success but yet you fear failure? Same thing. Lose moyes and we get relegated? Isn't that like Coleen Rooney being prepared to stay with Wayne because she's afraid of not having a life as a WAG? Now that my friend is materialistic.

 

Unfortunately beating Man City every now and then doesn't go in the honours list, beating teams consistently and winning trophies does. Maybe you haven't been there for an everton league win? I don't know (that's not a dig). I was there against QPR in 85 and there to see us parade it against Luton in 87, seeing that happen raises your expectations as an Evertonian above that of any fan who has only known relegation battles.

 

Being content to settle for nearly there is a symtom of apathy.

[Peter H]

How will your life change Dalziel if we were to win something?

 

Are you so desperate for the club to win something in order to give meaning to your own life? You don't even watch Everton matches by your own admission. Do you just support the notion of being a fan? Heck, you have an AC Milan avatar.

 

I really don't get your need for a trophy as a deal breaker with Moyes.

Yeah, I'd feel so much better if the club were to win something again. I'd be the epitome of joy and euphoria.

 

Damn well realize it won't make that much difference to individual lives but it's somethimg many would like to see again after nearly two decades without anything won. Not really desperate to see it, but there will be some supporters that eager to see something again in what may even be a last time. I don't have a problem with Moyes, but so long as he remains in charge, we're simply not going to do it again. This is going nowhere, I'm trying to watch a movie, and simply going over old territory.

 

Just keep Moyes in charge.for years or all eternity. Some people would like to see the club win something again but all this fucking stability banality and Moyes mundane approaches aren't for everyone. Maybe they've just given up, I don't know. This is all for another time.

Still no explanation for the milan avatar and the not watching everton matches part?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I don't think that there is an Evertonian on the planet that doesn't want success and I do think that there are some question marks hanging over Moyes such as our inability to win away against the top 4 teams and the way we seem to choke on the big occasion

 

However it is Moyes who is to thank for getting us to those big occasions in the first place and I think generally speaking he has done a fantastic job. Ok he hasn't won a trophy but look at that a little more closely

 

The Premiership is a non starter, we simply don't have the financial clout to compete

 

The FA Cup has been dominated by the top 4 teams since the 1980's , so again without the finances its an extremely big ask

 

In fact since we last won the Cup in 94/95 Pompey are the only side outside the top 4 that have won it and that was a freak season when all the big sides went out early doors

 

 

1988–89 Liverpool †3–2 * Everton

1989–90 Manchester United 1–0 Crystal Palace

1990–91 Tottenham Hotspur †2–1 * Nottingham Forest

1991–92 Liverpool 2–0 Sunderland

1992–93 Arsenal †2–1 * Sheffield Wednesday

1993–94 Manchester United 4–0 Chelsea

1994–95 Everton 1–0 Manchester United

1995–96 Manchester United 1–0 Liverpool

1996–97 Chelsea 2–0 Middlesbrough

1997–98 Arsenal 2–0 Newcastle United

1998–99 Manchester United 2–0 Newcastle United

1999–2000 Chelsea 1–0 Aston Villa

2000–01 Liverpool 2–1 Arsenal

2001–02 Arsenal 2–0 Chelsea

2002–03 Arsenal 1–0 Southampton

2003–04 Manchester United 3–0 Millwall

2004–05 Arsenal †0–0 Manchester United

2005–06 Liverpool †3–3 West Ham United

2006–07 Chelsea †1–0 * Manchester United

2007–08 Portsmouth 1–0 Cardiff City

2008–09 Chelsea 2–1 Everton

2009–10 Chelsea 1–0 Portsmouth

2010–11 Manchester City 1–0 Stoke City

2011–12 Chelsea 2–1 Liverpool

 

 

The League Cup, and this is my bug bear, we never take it seriously, we play the kids and fringe players ala Leeds Utd this season. Most of the people moaning about Moyes also want the kids to lay in the Cup games so they cant really complain there

 

So yes we all want success but I just think some fans need to have a bit of realism. What more can Moyes do without backing band for that matter what more can any manager do

 

We have hit the proverbial glass cealing and the way I see it if a new manager comes what do you expect him to achieve?

 

There isn't really much room for improvement without the money and so if your lucky a new manager may just maintain our status as Europen challengers but there is also every chance that he wont be able to reach the standards Moyes has

 

So , and I know a lot of you hate this phrase, be careful what you wish for

Edited April 15, 2013 by duncanmckenzieismagic

[Avinalaff]

 

You see, this is what pother posters are referring to that you seem to ignore and carry on doing.... "you sound like a Liverpool fan" "jealousy" "materialistic"..... why are you judging people and insulting people because of their opinions???

 

You criticise those who wants success but yet you fear failure? Same thing. Lose moyes and we get relegated? Isn't that like Coleen Rooney being prepared to stay with Wayne because she's afraid of not having a life as a WAG? Now that my friend is materialistic.

 

Unfortunately beating Man City every now and then doesn't go in the honours list, beating teams consistently and winning trophies does. Maybe you haven't been there for an everton league win? I don't know (that's not a dig). I was there against QPR in 85 and there to see us parade it against Luton in 87, seeing that happen raises your expectations as an Evertonian above that of any fan who has only known relegation battles.

 

Being content to settle for nearly there is a symtom of apathy.

 

I like Moyes. I want success 'with' Moyes as manager and Kenwright as chairman. Why? I like them as people. That might sound strange to some, but to me, it's important.

 

What reaction to other fans wanting shut of him would you prefer? Maybe I was a bit hard on you in my last post, so apologies if I was (MIL died last night but no excuse) but there comes a time when I get a bit fed up with folk who think trophies are the be all and end all. I have hundreds, and will gladly send you some free of charge if you want them. They mean little. Good people are far more important.

[Avinalaff]

Av it sounds more like you think we cant survive without Moyes. He's done a great job, everyone knows that. But if Moyes leaves in the summer you'll still be an Everton fan wont you? As much as the club is bigger than any player, its also bigger than any manager.

 

If fans were just happy to accept and not want to push forward you would be supporting a team probably still owned by Peter Johnson. It was fan power that shifted him, fans who expected better. Lets not pretend that Everton fans complaining is a new thing.

 

Our motto says it all, if we dont stand by it we might as well remove it from the shirt. I'm not saying we should be challenging for the league either, its just not realistic right now. But i'm not scared we will drop down to the bad days if people high up the food chain are replaced with new blood, progress can happen.

 

We have this history we are all proud of, if it wasnt for winners in our history, people progressing and pushing this club forward, we wouldnt have that history.

 

I'd probably lose a lot of interest. It isn't the be all of life after all. I want to see the present squad and their management get their rewards.

[MikeO]

....such as our inability to win away against the top 4 teams and the way we seem to choke on the big occasion

 

 

Until tomorrow.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

Until tomorrow.

 

 

Here's hoping ! :-)

[Matt]

im going to be honest. Over the last couple of months, Ive succumbed to frustration and used this place to air said frustrations. I have been quite fickle (though I do try to be consistant), so I'll hold my hands up. Doom merchants and blind optimists do frustrate me from time to time because they can sound like broken records and that becomes a bit tedious over time. But all opinions are valid and no matter how annoying they are, they should hold merit and should be respected. I'll hold my hands up to not always doing that. There as some ludicrous statements being made in this thread also, but im not getting myself into trouble by finger pointing - this is not aimed at particular people (though it might seem that way to some). Equally, opinions will fluctuate as new evidence comes along to influence them, like the Wigan defeat. It pushed me (and im sure a few others) from being on the fence with Moyes to having had enough and change is required, now.

 

Since that game, our form has returned somewhat. Most of that will be down to Moyes, so credit where credit is due. I think we are all aware of his ability to motivate. So, being the fickle fan, im starting to relax a bit more. However, I still think this "wait n see" game Moyes is playing is hurting us and, quite frankly, disrespectful. Sign for 2-3 years and, if it doesnt go his way then he can go looking for another job; we get some stability and a payday when he leaves. Currently we have no idea who is going to be taking over in the next couple of months and wont get a penny if he leaves.

 

Change is still required. But, like i said, ive passed the wanting Moyes out and back to middle road; will thank him for his services if he goes but would be happy if he stays, provided he continues to evolve. Evolution for me is:

 

• blooding more new youngsters (not 10 mins every now and again) when possible and not when forced to.
• takes responsibility for his mistakes
• continue to improve on his tactical decisions (he has done over the years but in my eyes - e.g. substitutions - there is still a lot of progress to be made).

Not one of them requires new investment. Thats all on him. If he leaves, well... im a little apprehensive, because hes been here so long and is an integral part of the club. Plus we wont have our current captain, most likely lose a massive player for us in Felli, and with those 3 huge influences missing, its easy to see why people get scared that we will disappear into League one come from. On the other hand, weve got a great team and club who, under the right leadership could take the club further and that possibility out weighs the risks for some.

 

Regarding the competitive sub-topic here: winning is everything - in sport. football is a sport. It will improve my life a bit, because for a short time (whether for a few hours or days or weeks etc) I will be on that level on elation I was when I was 12 and we won the FA Cup. That happiness again would be most welcome and is quite addictive. Im a highly competitive person too, so it might mean a bit more to me than others. Whilst success for Everton is not the be all of life, the universe and everything, but it is the bread and butter of a football club, and this is a football forum. So lets keep some relativity here - if a person is posting about success on a football forum and how important it is, he probably is only talking about that in the sense of the game, not his life overall.

[Bailey]

 

I'm pretty sure given the chance to be 4 points off 3rd place after 32 games at the start of the season we would ALL have taken that. Surely?!

 

Yes we have been knocked out of the cups, embarrassingly in both cases but it does happen. Man Utd haven't won the FA cup for nearly 10 years I think and they spend significantly more than us to have a bigger squad.

 

Whenever I feel frustrated or annoyed I just look at the table. Yes there are 'what might have been if..' feelings sometimes because we could be higher, but I'm sure Arsenal, Spurs and Man City feel the same way. That's football, we'd all win 'if'....

IMO its not the fact that we havent won certain games, its more to do with the fact that we didnt give ourselves the best possibility of winning certain games, whether that be tactics, player choice or the individuals themselves. Mistakes happen and so do poor decisions, but consistently making the same bad decisions is a big no no as far as I am concerned. There are games that we have handicapped ourselves before we have even kicked a ball and its those opportunities that we have missed that cost us the most. We might not have the best squad in the league but we damn sure have one of the best 'teams' (thanks to Moyes!) and that can count for so much, as we showed against City and even QPR. It has also been shown at Utd who again dont have the best squad in the league, but have by far the best 'team'. Like last year, I think this is a bit of a missed opportunity and whilst we have some games left to put that right, we do need to rely on others.

 

Everybody wants the best for their team, and every fan wants their team to win, but at what point do we put our hopes for the team above everything else?

 

We're not playing a pc game. Moyes is a real person, and in my opinion has done everything possibly expected from him, and then some. I like having the guy as manager. It's better than having some mercenary manager who goes from club to club like Redknapp or Allardyce, chasing the money, and shitting on the team they manage by taking what they think is a better offer from a bigger club.

 

Moyes has stayed loyal to Everton throughout, and those that think he hasn't been offered other jobs are more than a little naïve.

 

For a team with some very cheap players in it, we play some great football, so those who think he isn't able to get us playing are talking crap.

 

Fellaini for me is just another Everton player. If he wants to leave, he will leave, and the same goes for Baines. We're not a platform for individual players to stand upon. We're a team, and all players have the same standing.

 

Let us sell those that don't want to stay, and see if Moyes can't put the money towards others, yet again.

 

If they all want to stay, then fantastic. One or 2 more signings and we are as good as anybody.

 

Lose Moyes though, and we are in unchartered territory, and things could go very wrong for us indeed. Fans who are prepared to risk that, don't strike me as anything but glory hunters, who as long as they see the team win a trophy, have little care for anybody else.

 

They're not fans of the club, but fans of their own needs, and use the club in the hope it can add a little light to their sad pathetic little lives. Let Everton do what Everton will, and support them whilst they do it - or don't.

 

You sound like a Liverpool fan Haf.

 

What exactly do City fans have 'this season' ?

 

For all their money, they're back to being chumps to United. They were showed up in Europe, and have won nothing yet again. Everton beat them with the same ease as we beat QPR. All I see in you is jealousy mate, but jealousy of what?

 

Evertonians have much more than City have. We have our club, and we have our manager, and we have our team, and we have our stadium, and it's memories, and all of it is Everton; not some fly by night project of a rich mans impulsive hobby.

 

Do you fuck your friends off because you meet somebody with a fancier job? Do you fuck your family off because of a bird with false tits and long lashes? I really have little time for materialistic people.

 

It will serve many fans right if we lose Moyes and are soon relegated. Still, as long as we win the FA Cup first though, eh mate?

See this is what some people dont understand, or maybe its just me!

 

Trophies are brilliant but you only consistently win anything by doing things right from square one. The right processes, the right attitude and the right application. Do we have that off the field? Nope. Do we have that on the field? Nope. We have it here and there but probably for 50% of the season. If you look at the last 5 years for example? Are we really any better? I dont think we are. Are the teams around us any better? Some of them are barely a patch on what they used to be despite all the money being spent. Every time I think we are taking steps forward, we take a couple of giant ones back again and that's because of our own doing not anyone elses.

 

I dont want to sound harsh but I would be very surprised if we ever won a trophy under Moyes, especially in Europe. Not because of the money, not because of the players and not because he cant put out a team to beat anyone else in the league on his day. Moyes is a good manager and he has built some solid foundations at the club, far exceeding what any of us could have expected when he took over. However, that doesnt mean someone else cant come in and start building a house on top of these foundations, rather than settling for Moyes' bungalow (not the greatest analogy I have ever come up with!).

[Bailey]

I don't think that there is an Evertonian on the planet that doesn't want success and I do think that there are some question marks hanging over Moyes such as our inability to win away against the top 4 teams and the way we seem to choke on the big occasion

 

However it is Moyes who is to thank for getting us to those big occasions in the first place and I think generally speaking he has done a fantastic job. Ok he hasn't won a trophy but look at that a little more closely

 

The Premiership is a non starter, we simply don't have the financial clout to compete

 

The FA Cup has been dominated by the top 4 teams since the 1980's , so again without the finances its an extremely big ask

 

In fact since we last won the Cup in 94/95 Pompey are the only side outside the top 4 that have won it and that was a freak season when all the big sides went out early doors

 

 

1988–89 Liverpool †3–2 * Everton

1989–90 Manchester United 1–0 Crystal Palace

1990–91 Tottenham Hotspur †2–1 * Nottingham Forest

1991–92 Liverpool 2–0 Sunderland

1992–93 Arsenal †2–1 * Sheffield Wednesday

1993–94 Manchester United 4–0 Chelsea

1994–95 Everton 1–0 Manchester United

1995–96 Manchester United 1–0 Liverpool

1996–97 Chelsea 2–0 Middlesbrough

1997–98 Arsenal 2–0 Newcastle United

1998–99 Manchester United 2–0 Newcastle United

1999–2000 Chelsea 1–0 Aston Villa

2000–01 Liverpool 2–1 Arsenal

2001–02 Arsenal 2–0 Chelsea

2002–03 Arsenal 1–0 Southampton

2003–04 Manchester United 3–0 Millwall

2004–05 Arsenal †0–0 Manchester United

2005–06 Liverpool †3–3 West Ham United

2006–07 Chelsea †1–0 * Manchester United

2007–08 Portsmouth 1–0 Cardiff City

2008–09 Chelsea 2–1 Everton

2009–10 Chelsea 1–0 Portsmouth

2010–11 Manchester City 1–0 Stoke City

2011–12 Chelsea 2–1 Liverpool

 

 

The League Cup, and this is my bug bear, we never take it seriously, we play the kids and fringe players ala Leeds Utd this season. Most of the people moaning about Moyes also want the kids to lay in the Cup games so they cant really complain there

 

So yes we all want success but I just think some fans need to have a bit of realism. What more can Moyes do without backing band for that matter what more can any manager do

 

We have hit the proverbial glass cealing and the way I see it if a new manager comes what do you expect him to achieve?

 

There isn't really much room for improvement without the money and so if your lucky a new manager may just maintain our status as Europen challengers but there is also every chance that he wont be able to reach the standards Moyes has

 

So , and I know a lot of you hate this phrase, be careful what you wish for

I do agree with a lot of what you say, and yes it is a risk, any change is always a risk, but it is also an opportunity and likewise a new contract is a new opportunity for Moyes to evolve. I honestly dont want to sound like a Moyes out merchant, its just that it comes across that way a lot of the time when I think about what has happened over the last couple of seasons.

 

I will however argue a couple of your points

 

Firstly, you say that money is a glass ceiling these days but despite the sums being spent, teams are getting worse. Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool are all significantly worse than their teams of a few years back IMO, albeit a across different time spans. Spurs are better this year but they were just as good under Jol and he didn't have Bale to bail him out (sorry!). The whipping boys maybe a little better in this day and age but thats about it. Money helps, of course it does, but developing a team (which Moyes has already done) can be so much more important, especially over the space of a season.

 

Secondly, we still shouldn't be losing these cup games because we have one or two 'kids' playing. Kids playing didnt cost us a win against Leeds or Wigan, or a draw against Oldham. Using it as an excuse is naive and completely misses the real reasons why we lost. Namely player attitude, tactics and underestimating the opponent.

[Guest]

i agree with some of that i think the league this year is poor

Edited April 15, 2013 by Tricky Trev

[Guest]

 

You see, this is what pother posters are referring to that you seem to ignore and carry on doing.... "you sound like a Liverpool fan" "jealousy" "materialistic"..... why are you judging people and insulting people because of their opinions???

 

You criticise those who wants success but yet you fear failure? Same thing. Lose moyes and we get relegated? Isn't that like Coleen Rooney being prepared to stay with Wayne because she's afraid of not having a life as a WAG? Now that my friend is materialistic.

 

Unfortunately beating Man City every now and then doesn't go in the honours list, beating teams consistently and winning trophies does. Maybe you haven't been there for an everton league win? I don't know (that's not a dig). I was there against QPR in 85 and there to see us parade it against Luton in 87, seeing that happen raises your expectations as an Evertonian above that of any fan who has only known relegation battles.

 

Being content to settle for nearly there is a symtom of apathy.

 

Awsome post

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I do agree with a lot of what you say, and yes it is a risk, any change is always a risk, but it is also an opportunity and likewise a new contract is a new opportunity for Moyes to evolve. I honestly dont want to sound like a Moyes out merchant, its just that it comes across that way a lot of the time when I think about what has happened over the last couple of seasons.

 

I will however argue a couple of your points

 

Firstly, you say that money is a glass ceiling these days but despite the sums being spent, teams are getting worse. Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool are all significantly worse than their teams of a few years back IMO, albeit a across different time spans. Spurs are better this year but they were just as good under Jol and he didn't have Bale to bail him out (sorry!). The whipping boys maybe a little better in this day and age but thats about it. Money helps, of course it does, but developing a team (which Moyes has already done) can be so much more important, especially over the space of a season.

 

Secondly, we still shouldn't be losing these cup games because we have one or two 'kids' playing. Kids playing didnt cost us a win against Leeds or Wigan, or a draw against Oldham. Using it as an excuse is naive and completely misses the real reasons why we lost. Namely player attitude, tactics and underestimating the opponent.

 

 

That may well be the case but they can all still afford to sign players like Van Persie, Suarez, Matta,Carzola and Hazard. Can you imagine how much better Everton would be if we could bring in a couple of players of that ilk?

 

Secondly you cant expect to make 5 or 6 changes and not effect the rhythm of the side, and Im am absolutely certain that we would have been far more likely to win if we played our strongest side, just look where it got Swansea!

Edited April 15, 2013 by duncanmckenzieismagic

[Bailey]

That may well be the case but they can all still afford to sign players like Van Persie, Suarez, Matta, and Hazard. Can you imagine how much better Everton would be if we could bring in a couple of players of that ilk?

 

Secondly you cant expect to make 5 or 6 changes and not effect the rhythm of the side, and Im am absolutely certain that we would have been far more likely to win if we played our strongest side, just look where it got Swansea!

Oh yeh no doubting that but at the same time, bringing top players in doesn't mean success. Torres springs to mind

 

Maybe but looking at the team sheet we only had Mucha, Oviedo, Junior, Gueye and I guess you could include Mirallas as well at that point. Both Oviedo and Mirallas have been playing in the CL and arent exactly kids which basically leaves Junior and Gueye. The former was asked to play further up the pitch then he normally would and I dont think he played badly in the circumstances the latter was crap. If we had brought in 6 or 7 kids you would have a point, but we our first team players didnt stand up and make themselves counted and that is what lost us the game against a struggling Leeds team. Wigan played their kids in the cup to start with and it hasnt done them too badly either.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Oh yeh no doubting that but at the same time, bringing top players in doesn't mean success. Torres springs to mind

 

Maybe but looking at the team sheet we only had Mucha, Oviedo, Junior, Gueye and I guess you could include Mirallas as well at that point. Both Oviedo and Mirallas have been playing in the CL and arent exactly kids which basically leaves Junior and Gueye. The former was asked to play further up the pitch then he normally would and I dont think he played badly in the circumstances the latter was crap. If we had brought in 6 or 7 kids you would have a point, but we our first team players didnt stand up and make themselves counted and that is what lost us the game against a struggling Leeds team. Wigan played their kids in the cup to start with and it hasnt done them too badly either.

 

 

I agree, the worst player on the pitch that night was Fellaini but the point still stands , if we want to win trophies then we should give ourselves the best possible chance of doing so by fielding our strongest side

[Oztoffee]

 

 

if we want to win trophies then we should give ourselves the best possible chance of doing so by fielding our strongest side

Going a little off-topic here, but this will be the scenario if we get to Europa league again. Our squad is wafer-thin with experienced players and any injuries or just general 'worn out' will see us perhaps in the same position as other under-funded teams, struggling in the Prem while we have a good run aginst fairly ordinary opposition in Euro. Newcastle this season have had the problem (Stoke too?). Only Spurs seem to have had the best of both worlds of those out of the top 4.

Those who whinge about Naismith playing at all will need to re-think if he plays every game because of injuries or otherwise of other players.

We really need to be careful of what we wish for.

[Hafnia]

I'm not arsed about Europa league, but massively arsed about champions league. Champions league is a status changer, millions of pounds, attracting the right players, and I would like to think attracting a buyer. Think it's a step too far, so many wasted points this year, shame.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Going a little off-topic here, but this will be the scenario if we get to Europa league again. Our squad is wafer-thin with experienced players and any injuries or just general 'worn out' will see us perhaps in the same position as other under-funded teams, struggling in the Prem while we have a good run aginst fairly ordinary opposition in Euro. Newcastle this season have had the problem (Stoke too?). Only Spurs seem to have had the best of both worlds of those out of the top 4.

Those who whinge about Naismith playing at all will need to re-think if he plays every game because of injuries or otherwise of other players.

We really need to be careful of what we wish for.

 

In that scenario I don't mind Moyes sacrificing the League Cup and playing the kids, and much like last time we were in Europe if we qualify from the group early enough again he can play the kids

[Bailey]

 

 

I agree, the worst player on the pitch that night was Fellaini but the point still stands , if we want to win trophies then we should give ourselves the best possible chance of doing so by fielding our strongest side

 

Yeh true. Albeit I think that with the size of the squad, we do have to give the likes of Osman and Pienaar a break in these games, especially as they come over the busy Christmas period (FA Cup anyway).

[Hafnia]

Osman needs to go on a spa weekend, eat a few steaks, drink some guinness and get some kip. Leggy is not even in it. Same as pienaar.

 

Would be interested insseing how Brian Oviedo can do, more time for Ross etc

[StevO]

 

I'd probably lose a lot of interest. It isn't the be all of life after all. I want to see the present squad and their management get their rewards.

 

Really? So you arent an Everton fan, your a Moyes fan?

[Avinalaff]

 

Really? So you arent an Everton fan, your a Moyes fan?

 

Moyes has been manager for 11 years.

 

That's almost a quarter of my supporting life. Let's not play that down and trivialise it.

 

Moyes is a part of Evertons history, and hopefully a part of it's future. You talk like the 2 are separate discussions. I don't care about our early history. I have no affiliation to it. My love for the club started as a young kid and not before I was born. As far as I'm concerned, Everton have only been important to me for about 40 years. Not, 140 years. Moyes has been manager for over 25% of that time, so damn me for liking our manager.

[StevO]

I'm not damning you for liking the manager, but you've said yourself you will lose interest if Moyes goes.

That says to me your affiliation is with the manager, not the club.

 

For the record, Moyes has been manager for probably half (if not more) of my supporting life.

[Hafnia]

I think I touched on this earlier, some fans have more of an afiliation with the chairman, manager, certain players and lose interest when they change.

 

That's just a fact, not a criticism. I know MikeO wrote about how he cried when Alan Ball left Everton - now I can totally understand that pain. Possibly the best Everton player since Dixie Dean at that time who was the English equivalent of Zinedine Zidane. Did MikeO stop suppoerting Everton??? Looks like he hasn't.

 

Everton is Everton because of it's history - history is made by the managers and players, they are custodians, nothing more, the club stands above everything.

 

Would Tiger Woods gets tingles down his spine walking out on a golf course that's only 10 years old that hasn't seen any majors?, or would he still awestruck at walking out on st andrews, the home of golf where all the greats have played???

 

History is what makes Everton, not the past 11 years, otherwise Chelsea would be a bigger club!

[Guest]

Amen brother

[Avinalaff]

I'm not damning you for liking the manager, but you've said yourself you will lose interest if Moyes goes.

That says to me your affiliation is with the manager, not the club.

 

For the record, Moyes has been manager for probably half (if not more) of my supporting life.

 

Oh yes you are.

[Guest]

After watching the game last night it dawned on me that we are a really good team. Played Spurs and Arsenal away and matched them and could/should have got more from them. I think that we are looking at a really important summer and if we get the ins and outs right we should be a force next year. A top striker, Midfielder and a winger are a must. My point is i just get the feeling Moyes has built the team to this point and unless he has a job lined up i cant see him giving the team up to a Martinez to get those players and grab the glory knowing we are so close. The job at changing the average age of the team at Everton and still competing at the top is a big one and should be a challenge Moyes would relish.

[Louis]

The Daily Mail seem to think Moyes'll leave.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2312314/David-Moyes-Marouane-Fellaini-set-Everton-exit.html

 

Everton are set to be dealt a double end-of-season blow as their fading Champions League hopes mean manager David Moyes and star midfielder Marouane Fellaini are likely to depart Goodison Park.