Upcoming crest announcement (2014/15 onwards)

[Avinalaff]

I take myself as an example. Ive had season tickets before, went the match for years growing up. That was around 15 yrs of going to Goodison, and I still try and arrange any visits home to coincide with a match.

 

But due to moving abroad to find work, Ive not been able to go the game every week. My dad and I were actually looking into how we could organize a season ticket + flights as a birthday present, but its just not feasible; neither time wise nor fiscally (for me to get to and from Geneva airport is 50quid alone). Because of this, Im an "armchair" fan who has to search for links online to watch, but in no way is my love for the club less than those who go there each week. For Evertons foreign support, we are stuck with it.

 

There are some who only check the scores, who never even go out of their way to find the games in local pubs or online. If youre referring to these only, I start to agree but unless you know the reasoning behind why each person does this, you cant make a distinction.

 

That's not quite the same Matt as a guy who enjoys them from afar and never spent a penny towards the club other than buying a used shirt from a dodgy online dealer and getting a crested pair of socks for Christmas.

 

Look at it from another point of view:

 

You spend your cash going to every home game and every away game, home or abroad, and Everton is your whole life. You live or work in a footballing community dedicated to your club, and your rival club, and went through school to adulthood dreaming of one day playing for Everton. Your father and his father were both Blues, and ................ (I'm sure you get the gist of it by now).

 

Up comes the chance to design / vote for your clubs new badge, but because of the power of the Internet, you and your travelling mates on the way back from that long trip to Southampton turn the radio on, on the Hans tour coach, and hear you are outvoted by folk living in a far distant land who have never breathed the same air as another Everton fan, but stumbled upon them online, and followed them since via stream on the occasional Saturday they remember the match is on.

 

Is 'that' fair Matt ? :dont know:

 

Everybody has the right to be a fan and love the club, but fairness is leaving the politics to the guys who are still actively involved.

 

You can walk past a house every day and admire the garden, falling in love with the way the sun lights up the heathered archways and glistens off the heads of the daffs, but unless you actively clear the dog shit up on a daily basis I doubt the owner will consult you when he wants to dig up the roses and plant carrots.

[Avinalaff]

I'd open it up to Evertondirect customers too, people who have invested money in the clubs merchandise deserve a say too

 

I think the Argos logo sucks. I bought the missus a pair of dangly earrings in 2011 and a brass letterbox last winter and reckon I should have a say in the new colour of their Autumn and Winter catalogue. :shaking fist:

[Matt]

That's not quite the same Matt as a guy who enjoys them from afar and never spent a penny towards the club other than buying a used shirt from a dodgy online dealer and getting a crested pair of socks for Christmas.

 

Look at it from another point of view:

 

You spend your cash going to every home game and every away game, home or abroad, and Everton is your whole life. You live or work in a footballing community dedicated to your club, and your rival club, and went through school to adulthood dreaming of one day playing for Everton. Your father and his father were both Blues, and ................ (I'm sure you get the gist of it by now).

 

Up comes the chance to design / vote for your clubs new badge, but because of the power of the Internet, you and your travelling mates on the way back from that long trip to Southampton turn the radio on, on the Hans tour coach, and hear you are outvoted by folk living in a far distant land who have never breathed the same air as another Everton fan, but stumbled upon them online, and followed them since via stream on the occasional Saturday they remember the match is on.

 

Is 'that' fair Matt ? :dont know:

 

Everybody has the right to be a fan and love the club, but fairness is leaving the politics to the guys who are still actively involved.

 

You can walk past a house every day and admire the garden, falling in love with the way the sun lights up the heathered archways and glistens off the heads of the daffs, but unless you actively clear the dog shit up on a daily basis I doubt the owner will consult you when he wants to dig up the roses and plant carrots.

i understand what you're getting at, and to a large degree agree with you. I suppose it's somewhat of a moot point, as the people you describe probably won't bother to vote anyway, or won't be able to since they would have to have bought tickets at some point. I'm talking more about the people in Australia, like my cousin, who stay up til 4am to watch the game but can't go because of the distances and money involved.

 

Question though; in my situation am I considered an armchair fan in your opinion? Should I be entitled to a vote?

 

Edit: only asking, I might be getting a little defensive!

Edited September 19, 2013 by Matt

[Louis]

I'm seemingly in the 5% that do not want Nil Satis Nisi Optimum to return if the BBC article is accurate.

[Avinalaff]

i understand what you're getting at, and to a large degree agree with you. I suppose it's somewhat of a moot point, as the people you describe probably won't bother to vote anyway, or won't be able to since they would have to have bought tickets at some point. I'm talking more about the people in Australia, like my cousin, who stay up til 4am to watch the game but can't go because of the distances and money involved.

 

Question though; in my situation am I considered an armchair fan in your opinion? Should I be entitled to a vote?

 

Edit: only asking, I might be getting a little defensive!

 

I would class myself as an armchair fan too Matt. It doesn't sit well with me to expect the same rights as a fan who travels the world following the club, and I would gladly give up my vote to such a fan.

 

You can't open a vote to the Internet as you can't be sure who is voting. If it were me, I'd have a ballot box at the ground, as even customer numbers mean little.

[MikeO]

You can't open a vote to the Internet as you can't be sure who is voting..

 

But that's not what they're doing....they're opening it (via the internet) to season ticket holders, members and those who have a reference number at the ticket office because they've bought tickets.

 

Talking about people from other countries who've never breathed the Liverpool air is a red herring as they won't have a say.

[Avinalaff]

 

But that's not what they're doing....they're opening it (via the internet) to season ticket holders, members and those who have a reference number at the ticket office because they've bought tickets.

 

Talking about people from other countries who've never breathed the Liverpool air is a red herring as they won't have a say.

 

This was my first comment on the subject:

 

I keep saying it, but strictly speaking, it's the guys who pay for tickets and sit in the rain every week that should get the vote, and not the forum spammers from armchair land

 

The rest was a separate conversation to appease Matt.

 

BTW: Anybody in the world can get a customer number without needing to buy tickets, in case you didn't know. This is how naïve our club is.

[MikeO]

BTW: Anybody in the world can get a customer number without needing to buy tickets, in case you didn't know. This is how naïve our club is.

 

As far as I can tell (having just tried to "buy" tickets in a new account in my wife's name) you don't get a ticket reference number until you actually buy a ticket.

 

Not sure (that aside) why it's naive for any business to give their customers a customer number .

[Avinalaff]

 

As far as I can tell (having just tried to "buy" tickets in a new account in my wife's name) you don't get a ticket reference number until you actually buy a ticket.

 

Not sure (that aside) why it's naive for any business to give their customers a customer number .

 

God Mike, you're such a pedant. I thought I was bad.

 

You only need a customer number to vote. Anybody can get one very easily if they know how.

[MikeO]

 

God Mike, you're such a pedant. I thought I was bad.

 

You only need a customer number to vote. Anybody can get one very easily if they know how.

 

 

Yup, you buy a ticket for a game. Very easy. Glad we're agreed.

 

OS....

"Those designs will then be put to a vote of all supporters with a valid customer number acquired through past ticket purchases or club membership..."

 

When did being relating the facts become pedantic btw?

[Avinalaff]

 

 

Yup, you buy a ticket for a game. Very easy. Glad we're agreed.

 

OS....

"Those designs will then be put to a vote of all supporters with a valid customer number acquired through past ticket purchases or club membership..."

 

When did being relating the facts become pedantic btw?

 

Mike, I'll pm you how to get a number.

[Cake]

Borussia Dortmund reported having 500,000 member applications for tickets for last season's CL final. There will be a fair few armchair fans amongst that lot, some touts too no doubt.

 

Benfica claim to have 14 million members around the world - the world's best supported football club, they claim. Plenty of their followers with dents in the sofa, there.

 

Not going to the game or not being able to go to the game, for whatever reason, doesn't mean you care any less than those who haven't missed a game since 19 bow and arrow. It also doesn't mean those who don't go to the game aren't entitled to a vote about a crest (get me and I don't even fucking vote Liberal!).

 

You can shove that tower, for my money. Who the fuck wants to be associated with what is now a stump of a structure which used to be used to lock up drunks until they sobered up? I don't and others might think I'm blasphemous about our heritage and that I'm not "on it" and "all over it" but they're going to have to tell someone who gives a flying fuck. It's a fucking ridiculous thing to have on any badge or on anything else and, the more I think about it, the next time I'm in Liverpool I'm going to have a shit on top of it!

 

Game or no game. Shirt or no shirt. A follower is a follower and we have many. Keep pushing people away because they weren't there when we clinched the league in '68 against West Brom, weren't there at Oxford for 'that' back pass by Kevin Brock in '84, fell asleep shit-faced in an enormous concrete drain on Rotterdam docks and nearly missed your ferry home in '85 after celebrating your team's first European trophy and many, many more memorable and forgettable experiences before and after these dates and it will mean you're left with your history and your memories and no fucker will want to listen to you and why should they!? It's always some other bastard's fault!

 

But at least we'll still have our fucking tower!

[Avinalaff]

Borussia Dortmund reported having 500,000 member applications for tickets for last season's CL final. There will be a fair few armchair fans amongst that lot, some touts too no doubt.

 

Benfica claim to have 14 million members around the world - the world's best supported football club, they claim. Plenty of their followers with dents in the sofa, there.

 

Not going to the game or not being able to go to the game, for whatever reason, doesn't mean you care any less than those who haven't missed a game since 19 bow and arrow. It also doesn't mean those who don't go to the game aren't entitled to a vote about a crest (get me and I don't even fucking vote Liberal!).

 

You can shove that tower, for my money. Who the fuck wants to be associated with what is now a stump of a structure which used to be used to lock up drunks until they sobered up? I don't and others might think I'm blasphemous about our heritage and that I'm not "on it" and "all over it" but they're going to have to tell someone who gives a flying fuck. It's a fucking ridiculous thing to have on any badge or on anything else and, the more I think about it, the next time I'm in Liverpool I'm going to have a shit on top of it!

 

Game or no game. Shirt or no shirt. A follower is a follower and we have many. Keep pushing people away because they weren't there when we clinched the league in '68 against West Brom, weren't there at Oxford for 'that' back pass by Kevin Brock in '84, fell asleep shit-faced in an enormous concrete drain on Rotterdam docks and nearly missed your ferry home in '85 after celebrating your team's first European trophy and many, many more memorable and forgettable experiences before and after these dates and it will mean you're left with your history and your memories and no fucker will want to listen to you and why should they!? It's always some other bastard's fault!

 

But at least we'll still have our fucking tower!

 

Lol, I don't like the tower either, but it's got absolutely nothing to do with fan status and everything to do with making sure the votes go to Everton fans, and you can't do that by allowing a free voting spree on the web. What you 'can' do is make sure you sew the seeds to ensure those who want to vote register their details with you for your database, which is 'exactly' what the club are doing. It's a win win for the club, but highly unlikely any votes will make the slightest difference to any outcome. The club decide which crests they want you to vote on, and unless they're daft, 2 will be hideous and 1 will get the votes, thus ensuring their database gets full, and the fans feel they've had a say.

[MikeO]

 

Mike, I'll pm you how to get a number.

 

Is it a secret?

[StevO]

If there is another way to get one I would assume the vote would be filtered down to ticket buyers and club members.

 

There won't be a back door.

[barryj]

I think that the club have done it the best and fairest way. I don't think there will be many Evertonians who haven't bought a ticket in the last ten years and if they haven't then it may sound harsh but tough. I live in the south (Milton Keynes) and only go up to goodison or away games occasionally.

[Avinalaff]

 

Is it a secret?

 

Fuck me, you're one trouble causer when you want to be. I pm'd you to stop something escalating needlessly. For an admin you really are a proper tit sometimes. I've been back a day and already you're trying it on. Knock it off and grow up.

[MikeO]

 

Fuck me, you're one trouble causer when you want to be. I pm'd you to stop something escalating needlessly. For an admin you really are a proper tit sometimes. I've been back a day and already you're trying it on. Knock it off and grow up.

 

My apologies if I hurt your feelings.

 

But I find it frustrating, the club have very clearly said...

 

"Those designs will then be put to a vote of all supporters with a valid customer number acquired through past ticket purchases or club membership..."

 

So it's a complete non issue; you're getting all emotive ("hear you are outvoted by folk living in a far distant land who have never breathed the same air as another Everton fan, but stumbled upon them online, and followed them since via stream on the occasional Saturday they remember the match is on") based on a flawed premise.

[The Regulator]

I think every fan of the club should get to vote.

 

And I also think that this crest stuff is a load of horseshit. Seriously.

[Avinalaff]

 

My apologies if I hurt your feelings.

 

But I find it frustrating, the club have very clearly said...

 

"Those designs will then be put to a vote of all supporters with a valid customer number acquired through past ticket purchases or club membership..."

 

So it's a complete non issue; you're getting all emotive ("hear you are outvoted by folk living in a far distant land who have never breathed the same air as another Everton fan, but stumbled upon them online, and followed them since via stream on the occasional Saturday they remember the match is on") based on a flawed premise.

 

Accepted, but try to keep things in context.

 

Read back from #229 and you'll see that the discussion about who should vote on club issues was a totally separate debate. The petition, and the amount of folk who signed it, was a spin-off conversation, and not necessarily connected directly with the voting for the new crest, as the club have already invited votes from fans with customer numbers.

 

Therefore nobody is emotive, and nothing is flawed.

 

ANYBODY can get a customer number in less than 2 minutes, and 'THAT' is my whole point. In my opinion, the vote should come from match going fans only, and not from the general fan base. Guys can debate that all they want, but it's just 'my' opinion on the matter, not a law. A guy in Outer Mongolia who stumbled across the club during our pre-season tour should not have the same vote as the guy who goes to both home and away matches without fail. As things stand though, he can simply register, and within minutes, cast his vote.

 

It's not personal to overseas fans, but more a respect for the match goer.

[StevO]

He can't though. They will filter it for people who have bought tickets or memberships.

[MikeO]

ANYBODY can get a customer number in less than 2 minutes...

 

But they can't get...

 

"...a valid customer number acquired through past ticket purchases..."

 

...so their customer number will be of zero use to them when it comes to the vote.

 

 

[Avinalaff]

 

But they can't get...

 

"...a valid customer number acquired through past ticket purchases..."

 

...so their customer number will be of zero use to them when it comes to the vote.

 

 

 

Why don't we wait and see? :dont know:

[StevO]

How will we see?

 

It's in clear print isn't it? Or did I not read that?

[Avinalaff]

How will we see?

 

It's in clear print isn't it? Or did I not read that?

 

Duh .... how will we see ?

I have no idea mate. Well I do, but nothing I could be arsed explaining. How the heck do 'you' think you will see?

Try putting your brain into gear for once.

[Matt]

 

memory foam mattress?

[StevO]

I don't get how we'll see. On Monday I'll go online to vote, I'll enter my customer number, my vote will be accepted.

 

But while we are busy playing nice, I'll put my brain in gear when you take your head out of your arse. We can all be friendly, no need to be a prick about it.

[Avinalaff]

I don't get how we'll see. On Monday I'll go online to vote, I'll enter my customer number, my vote will be accepted.

 

But while we are busy playing nice, I'll put my brain in gear when you take your head out of your arse. We can all be friendly, no need to be a prick about it.

 

Wake up mate. The "why don't we wait and see" was designed to diffuse the debate.

 

How will you see? Create a fake account and see if your customer number works perhaps? or ... use the number on your e-ticketing account.

 

It all reminds me of knit picking for the sake of it. If I said a said a lemon cost 80p one of you would say it actually cost 75p. It's not important. 10 goals 8 goals 6 goals. Who cares?

[Avinalaff]

memory foam mattress?

 

Yes, very good Matt.

[StevO]

It's not knit picking, it sounds like your talking shite and you want to keep going until we believe you. Fact of the matter is no one actually gives a crap.