MikeO Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Moyes getting credit for playing Januzaj is like giving someone credit for wearing a waterproof jacket when it's raining. The lad was pissing training sessions and running defenders ragged, he was star performer in the pre season tour. He's a rare talent. Now then the £15m man Wilfred Zaha.... Any ideas? If he ain't better than Ashley young then I seriously doubt Moyes judgement. (Thinks back to Barkley sitting on bench watching Neville, heitinga and hitzlesperger get game time instead) I'd play my dead granny ahead of Ashley Young....carries far more threat. Anyway, as Ant said, Zaha looking like he's off to Cardiff (was having a medical yesterday wasn't he?). Be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I'd play my dead granny ahead of Ashley Young....carries far more threat. Anyway, as Ant said, Zaha looking like he's off to Cardiff (was having a medical yesterday wasn't he?). Be interesting. where will be learn his diving?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 The special one is a clever old devil!!! Fancy knowing where Moyes will play him where he will not be at his best and getting £37 million as well, priceless............................... Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant1979 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 football boner! Shame none of them will be playing for us next season! Take that back! Haha one of them will be for sure, and who knows Gerry might spend another year on loan? Here's hoping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Take that back! Haha one of them will be for sure, and who knows Gerry might spend another year on loan? Here's hopingmaybe one Not feeling optimistic today, shite week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25863298 Wenger says it's not fair that Man Utd can sign Mata because they've already played Chelsea twice so it's disadvantaging the other teams at the top. It does smack a little of whining to be honest haha He is just pissed that he hasnt thought of it before! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 We should go for Kagawa. This could even be a possibility in the current transfer window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Hulk spotted at Luton Airport. Could be Matas replacement And the real image Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Always wanted to see him in the premier league so fingers crossed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Hulk spotted at Luton Airport. Could be Matas replacement And the real image One of the most over rated players around. They'd just have another striker that flatters to deceive. pete0 and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 One of the most over rated players around. They'd just have another striker that flatters to deceive. From what I have seen of him I think he can be world class. We shall see hopefully he will come to the PL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I also keep reading Hulk to Monaco to replace Falcao. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 One of the most over rated players around. They'd just have another striker that flatters to deceive. Jesus, I thought you were referring to Mata at first. But yes, I agree, Hulk is overrated. Scored a few for Zenit but certainly wasn't spectacular (in a shit league may I add). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Jesus, I thought you were referring to Mata at first. But yes, I agree, Hulk is overrated. Scored a few for Zenit but certainly wasn't spectacular (in a shit league may I add). Haha definitely not. Mata oozes class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Who's better Ozil or Mata? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Who's better Ozil or Mata? Mata because he'll get you a substantial amount of goals as well as assists. Lowensda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I think he is a bit of bargain at £37 million in today's market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I think he is a bit of bargain at £37 million in today's market. I don't agree. He was mostly sitting on the bench at Chelsea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Here comes the power player: The move is delayed by Chelsea. http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25882972 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I don't agree. He was mostly sitting on the bench at Chelsea. That has nothing to do with his ability. He is one of the best midfielders in the world and considering how vastly inflated the prices are these days I personally think it's a bargain for someone with his ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I don't agree. He was mostly sitting on the bench at Chelsea. Mostly? Only since Mourinho came back. Before that he started week in, week out for two years and was one of their best players, if not the best. Ant1979 and Lowensda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant1979 Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Mostly? Only since Mourinho came back. Before that he started week in, week out for two years and was one of their best players, if not the best. Exactly this. He was voted their player of the year in both of his first two seasons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 One of the most over rated players around. They'd just have another striker that flatters to deceive.fkin A - never understood the fuss... marcus jones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) I think I've said here that I've always rated Mata very highly, so in this era of inflated transfers £35-40m (or whatever) and whatever his wages are seems like a bargain to me too, based purely on Mata's talent. However, there are certain caveats... First of all, Man United's team is very static and - as Bailey alludes to above - not well suited to players of Mata and Kagawa's ilk. I'm a fan of the latter's too but I rate Mata a level above. However, Bailey is essentially right in saying that they're both playmakers who like to play in the hole or even drift inside from wide while the full-backs create the overlap. They're both a bit more direct than traditional hole players but the rationale is the same. I totally agree with Matt that three of Kagawa, Mata, Januzaj and Rooney could interchange behind RVP. However, the issue is that Moyes (and even Ferguson in the more recent past) doesn't get the best out of these players in terms of their movement. There's also the issue that for a front four like this to flourish the two base players behind have to be very, very good. Man United's best midfielder is Carrick - he's a classy player, but he's probably a step below what you really need behind these four to make the whole thing work in harmony like a plexus. For that to happen you need guys like Vidal (more box to box), Busquets, Gundogan, Martinez etc. In short, you need players of the same quality of the front four. When you factor in that the rest of United's midfielders are either decent at best (Fletcher), converted wingers or centre-backs (Giggs and Jones) or borderline useless (Cleverley) it becomes patently clear that a complete revamp of how they play is what is needed - that front four looks excellent on paper, but it takes time and work to turn it into a coherent whole which functions well with the six behind them. My belief is that Moyes doesn't understand how to use these 'fantasista' type players and expects them to maintain some sort of regimented style - I believe he said something about letting them go out and play but within a 'framework'. He makes a good point that you can't just let people go out and play like free spirits, but I believe that Moyes doesn't have the ability to strike the balance between 'expression' and 'organisation'. The top managers have this (it's a part of tactics and substitutions etc) and it's somewhere where Moyes falls short for me. Hence, I feel that Mata won't be as effective in that team as a player of his quality should be - not until Man United revamp their outdated wing-spamming style and come into the 21st century. The first part of this change should be demoting Antonio Valencia to squad player because he seems to play every game and all their play goes through him, despite him turning in poor performances for the best part of 18 months. Ironically he didn't play today and they still lost, but there were mitigating factors. Overall, it's a cumulative process and I just don't feel Man United have the bottle, the manager or the style to be successful anymore. I think today was the final nail in the coffin for them and they will miss out on top four. Whether that leads to an exodus of present players and a refusal to join of prospective buys remains to be seen, but if they lose the likes of Rooney and RVP AND fail to strengthen the areas which need it at present (centre-back, LB, centre-midfield) then Man United could indeed be finished. Money worth spending. Young enough to get a good few years out of him (at least 6). Experienced in the league. Chelsea's best player (considering their roster) for 2 years. Outright top performer. World Class player. He doesn't fit into their (United's) current team? Bollocks. Their current team is shite, he doesn't fit in because he's decent! They're buying a player who you can build a team around. Start again if you like. Don't blame them for doing it and in a way, don't blame Chelsea. They've played each other in both fixtures now, so Chelsea giving United a top player will only ensure they take some points from Chelsea's rivals (all of United's tough games are at home) and not themselves. Smart moves all round. You're buying quality and experience in Mata. To think they wanted to fork out £30m for Herrera (Bilbao) who's untested and unproven in this league, you're buying undoubted potential but its a risk. You're totally right that Mata may represent value and they should build the team around the likes of he and potentially Januzaj, Rooney and Kagawa - those are the sort of forward thinking, imaginative players who will improve their style of football, if they can add strong centre midfielders behind them. In theory, It's definitely a smart signing from United's POV (as long as they don't expect it just to work as if by magic - see above). Bailey however raises an interesting point (and one which I am inclined to agree with) that Mata's main legacy may be to create a domino effect i.e. his signing will persuade fellow world-class players to join. As I say above, however, this is surely dependent on United getting that fourth place. What I disagree with is that this was a good move from Chelsea's perspective. My views on Mourinho are well-known. We all know that Mata's 'squad player status' under Mourinho was not linked in any way to Mata's ability. Furthermore, Mourinho's thinking is very short-termist in my opinion: yes, the top teams have to play Man United with Mata now, but Mourinho could have killed United off rather than potentially improve them and give them some hope for top four - after today's results it looks even less likely, and as I say United's team is a mess, but still - why take the chance that Mata might galvanise them between now and the end of the season? If United were to get fourth Mata would surely be a huge reason why, and CL football would allow them to cut the dead wood and improve in the summer. What that would mean is that, long-term, Mourinho would have to face a stronger United than if he hadn't sold Mata now. He's taken a risk here, but one which I think will work out for him, as I don't see United getting top four with or without Mata (although they may still get the odd win against Arsenal or Man City as he desires). But if you are Mourinho why take the risk in the first place? As for Mata not fitting into the Chelsea team and being 'lazy' in possession, I think that's vastly overstated to be honest. Many of the Chelsea fans swallow whatever Mourinho feeds them and now the same guys who were waxing lyrical about Mata are saying he's inferior to Oscar because Oscar works harder without the ball. It's clear as day that they feel the need to sheepishly agree with Mourinho. Nobody can convince me that Chelsea are a better team now that Mata isn't in the team. They could easily have rotated Salah, Hazard, Willian, Mata and Oscar (Schurrle is more of an outsider imo). Hell, they didn't even need one of Salah or Willian in the first place, as good as they both are. They hijacked Tottenham and Liverpool bids for those players but ironically they've strengthened a big club by selling them a better player than both. Mourinho's motives here seem to be personal, not professional. Herrera is class but he's not the same type of player as Mata, he's more of a deeper player (I know you weren't drawing a parallel between the type of players they were, just clarifying). I see the logic in what you're saying but remember that a few years ago people were saying the same things about Mata himself (as well as Silva, Aguero etc). Herrera would walk into the current Man United midfield because it's so shite, but you're right that many signings coming to a new league for north of £30m are always a risk. EDIT: apologies for the length of post, as well as any typos (I haven't slept for over twenty four hours). This Mata saga has been very intriguing to me from all perspectives and I wanted to get my extensive thoughts down on paper (so to speak). Edited February 1, 2014 by Nikica Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 ...First of all, Man United's team is very static and - as Bailey alludes to above - not well suited to players of Mata and Kagawa's ilk...My belief is that Moyes doesn't understand how to use these 'fantasista' type players and expects them to maintain some sort of regimented style Your observation is spot on. Today, he was clearly told to play out on the wing, which is really not really his strength. I hope, for his sake, he doesn't become another player who's asked to play out of position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I said straight from the off that giving Moyes top quality flair players is like having tits on a bull. They just highlight what a rigid, dull tactician he really is. Imagine giving Mata to Martinez? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2549696/Stoke-2-1-Manchester-United-match-report-Charlie-Adam-double-ends-Stoke-drought-misery-David-Moyes-Phil-Jones-rushed-hospital.html#article-2549696 Seriously, watch his interview... It's shocking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 He just looks lost as their manager. It's all well and good having mata,Rooney and rvd but if you've got cleverly etc behind them your going to lose a lot of games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 He just looks lost as their manager. It's all well and good having mata,Rooney and rvd but if you've got cleverly etc behind them your going to lose a lot of games. They lost scholes and got januzaj. He could have played Fletcher and Carrick. He just isn't very good really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I said straight from the off that giving Moyes top quality flair players is like having tits on a bull. They just highlight what a rigid, dull tactician he really is. Imagine giving Mata to Martinez? tits on a bull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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