Sideliner Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Big Martinez fan but tonight the Spaniard got it wrong - wrong back four against the quickest front four in the PL - Stones is not a right back , and offers zero on attack - Mirallas should play on the left , and Barkley on the right - we need a second striker asp - Lukaku isolated once again - we need a CM to play behind striker - no creative play in final third - Naismith and Osman won't win many PL games for us coming from behind - we need cover at RB with Coleman out - we will get slaughtered like we were tonight time and again if we want to play in Europe with the present fit squad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Disgusting blues u should be ashamed of yourselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 The reason why we lost this game wasnt because we pressed too high up or anything like that. They attempted to play a similar style at ours (where a counter attacking style would suit the away team more) but we shut them down because we stopped them from playing for 90% of the game. Today we gave them too much space and time. We didnt press them hard enough IMO and part of that is probably due to the changes in the squad and fitness of certain players too. Tbh I didnt see anything wrong with Stones for the goals, 2nd goal we shouldnt have lost possession and 3rd goal Jags and Alcaraz were away with the fairies. If Stones stays back, we struggle to move the ball out of defence even more, then we end up going long and then we end up down shits creek yet again. We could have sat back on the counter, but we would have probably had the same problems moving the ball forward as the scenario above and in the same way Liverpool did at times when we pressed them up the pitch. It fucked up badly tonight and we were horribly exposed, but Im sure Martinez set out to close them quicker and keep the ball better and I bet he wouldnt change that philosophy and I dont think he should do either. For years I havent wanted to attack teams and try and play the right way. We tried it today and it didnt work for whatever reason but at least we tried. It is IMO. You cant keep referring to the home game against them though mate, we had a makeshift defence tonight with a young CB asked to play at RB, we clearly couldn't play the game we are used to. Im not saying we should have sat back and give them more time, but we should have been more patient in our build up play and not played such a high line defensively. The Stones thing wasnt aimed at you btw, just saw a few people getting on his back and cant really understand why. Thats one thing thats starting to worry me now, how Martinez seemingly doesnt want to change his philosophy when he doesnt have the players to do it. he couldnt have possibly have expected Stones to come in and do a similar job to Coleman and he couldnt have expected Jags or Alcaraz to get us out of tricky situations with their pace like Distin does, so he has to go about it in a slightly different way and he didnt seem to tonight which is worrying, it was a similar situation at WBA. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Probably applies to about half the RBs in the league. We knew he wasn't going to bomb up and down the wing. We don't know why he was pushing up; presumably the 19 year old makeshift RB wasn't doing that on his own, which leaves RMs instructions. If he's done what he was told and is caught out by teammates poor decisions/passing that's hardly his fault. I suspect RM wanted him to stretch the pitch and try to drag a Liverpool midfielder over. It didn't work, but not much we did today worked. Think Stones is the wrong target for our frustration. Pretty much agree. People are blaming Stones' lack of end product like it's the reason we lost 4-0 while Liverpool won 4-0 when their right back barely crossed the halfway line. He played right back for Barsnley too btw and I remember seeing video footage of him doing it for our U21s and attacking and even getting an assist last season. I think that is how he plays naturally. Mirallas was given a free role, which meant Cissokho could defend very narrow and basically help pack their box. Stones was left to cover the entire right flank and fight it out with their left winger. And he did often find himself in space, he didn't put any good final balls into the box, but he did use the ball well enough I thought. Defensively our backline had to shift over to that side when we lost the ball though because he is naturally going to take time to recover into his position and this often left us scrambling and giving away too much space. I don't even remember how the fuck we got into that position for the second goal, but if it was a counter because someone gave bad pass while he was in space again you can hardly blame him for it. chicagoblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 That's what you call a defining moment. In the long-term, it's not such a bad thing. Right now, though, it stinks. Still, I'd rather lose 4-0 because of an attacking formation than lose 1-0 by trying to park the bus. Roll on next season's derby game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee_in_LA Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Big Martinez fan but tonight the Spaniard got it wrong - wrong back four against the quickest front four in the PL - who would you have played instead? Distin/Coleman were out due to injuries Stones is not a right back , and offers zero on attack - Think he did an ok job and feel that Hibbert would not have done much better Mirallas should play on the left , and Barkley on the right - Agreed to an extent. Think Barkley needs to play that CAM position as he did a pretty good job the limited amount of times he had the ball. we need a second striker asp - Lukaku isolated once again - Lukaku was carted off injured mate. Fully agree on us needing another striker however and feel this was a big folly by our part. we need a CM to play behind striker - no creative play in final third - His Name is Ross Barkley Naismith and Osman won't win many PL games for us coming from behind - We're stretched thin with injuries, what more can we have done with our current bench? Besides bringing McGeady in earlier maybe. we need cover at RB with Coleman out - See above we will get slaughtered like we were tonight time and again if we want to play in Europe with the present fit squad Not sure what to say... a little too rattled to be objective about this atm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Probably applies to about half the RBs in the league. We knew he wasn't going to bomb up and down the wing. We don't know why he was pushing up; presumably the 19 year old makeshift RB wasn't doing that on his own, which leaves RMs instructions. If he's done what he was told and is caught out by teammates poor decisions/passing that's hardly his fault. I suspect RM wanted him to stretch the pitch and try to drag a Liverpool midfielder over. It didn't work, but not much we did today worked. Think Stones is the wrong target for our frustration. Unfortunately I think him and Jagielka were the weak link tonight. The lad was well out of position. There is a difference between being told to push up and pushing up whilst leaving huge space and an opponent in it. If Coleman was playing tonight that second Goal most certainly wouldn't have came about. It highlighted that Coleman is an absolutely fantastic player and John Stones is not a modern day Full Back. He had no idea going forward. I wasn't expecting wonders. But what I was expecting is positional sense. He had none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Probably applies to about half the RBs in the league. We knew he wasn't going to bomb up and down the wing. We don't know why he was pushing up; presumably the 19 year old makeshift RB wasn't doing that on his own, which leaves RMs instructions. If he's done what he was told and is caught out by teammates poor decisions/passing that's hardly his fault. I suspect RM wanted him to stretch the pitch and try to drag a Liverpool midfielder over. It didn't work, but not much we did today worked. Think Stones is the wrong target for our frustration. Unfortunately I think him and Jagielka were the weak link tonight. The lad was well out of position. There is a difference between being told to push up and pushing up whilst leaving huge space and an opponent in it. If Coleman was playing tonight that second Goal most certainly wouldn't have came about. It highlighted that Coleman is an absolutely fantastic player and John Stones is not a modern day Full Back. He had no idea going forward. I wasn't expecting wonders. But what I was expecting is positional sense. He had none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2i0 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 - They have really talented players like Coutinho.Suarez,Sturridge....while we got Osman, Naismith, Mirallas so is damn hard for us to comeback from 3-0 since Osman and Naishmith arent creative they are workers in our offensive - Drop Piennar or Mirallas for Osman is always a terrible mistake in my opinion maybe they had terrible 1st halfs but in the end are our key players along with Barkley. We still so dependant from Barkley's job, hes too young for that big role... - Barry is okay for the dirty job but wonder why Martinez hold McCarthy in the defensive role, he used to help at Wigan in the offensive role also, i believe Osman and McCarthy shares the position, i hate when Osman go in for Mirallas or Piennar. - And finally happened we got loaned Lukaku injured and Naismith cant replace his role, why not Vellios on the bench? if loaned Traore also get injured we are screwed...so our only striker is Vellios (kone out in this season?) Sideliner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2i0 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) forgot to mention how slow is Alcaraz...i prefer Heitinga 100x times over him and we gonna sell him. Edited January 28, 2014 by 2i0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 What the fuck!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 If I'm honest I'm starting to see cracks in Martinez thinking - on the transfer front. We sell Jelavic without a viable replacement and then "loan" an injured player in. Tonight Heitinga would have been a better option but he's on his way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 What the fuck!!!!!!!!! The what fuck. GoodisonRoad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Fuck off, everyone wanted alcaraz in before tonight. The one thing about alcaraz that I've noticed is it looks like it doesn't hurt him as much as Jags when he ducks up. He has a kind of smerk on his face all the time. Might be nothing but it gets to me a bit. I wanna see them crying when they fuck up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Fuck off, everyone wanted alcaraz in before tonight. The one thing about alcaraz that I've noticed is it looks like it doesn't hurt him as much as Jags when he ducks up. He has a kind of smerk on his face all the time. Might be nothing but it gets to me a bit. I wanna see them crying when they fuck up. Jagielka + Alcaraz = no pace. See fourth goal. There wasn't much else we could have done tonight. But that partnership is a recipient for disaster. Jagielka was absolutely shocking, it's always been the same if he hasn't got pace covering him he gets exposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Well that was a bad day at the office and typically it had to be against them lot.... All went wrong from the start the selection wasn't great but obviously due to injuries there was not much more choice but the one player right from the off that looked woeful was Pienaar. He just seemed to be lost and completely off the pace lost the ball countless times in the first 15 minutes I'd have started McGeady over him all day long. We can harp on about injuries which fair enough have obviously had a big effect on what went on today but excuses aside we got a spanking and from how we played the first half a fully deserved one at that. We'll move on dust ourselves down and hopefully come back with a few players fit and ready and give Villa a good spanking. MC11, chicagoblue and marcus jones 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 As always, Im gonna write my own thoughts before reading what others have said. No doubt when I do read your comments, they will be as varied as ever!!! Well, that was a defensive calamity! So much so, I found myself laughing at the mistakes we made. When the line up was announced I felt assured. My only surprise was Alcaraz starting. I thought Stones would play CB and Hibbert RB, with that extra experience giving him the edge. Would it have made any difference? No, not one little bit. For a team which has been so defensively solid this season, that was a nightmare. We gifted them all 4 goals through poor defending. It was always going to be tough against Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling and Coutinho...they harrassed our back line non stop and we looked paniced. The writting was on the wall with Gerrards goal. Barry tried to track him, Barkley got in his way, Barry then falls over and injures our main striker! You couldnt make it up!!! All the goals where our own fault. Simple. Now I know the usual tactical genuis' are gonna be on saying we should have done this, played him, changed that....cos on fifa and football manager thats what you do. But honestly, the only thing that would have changed today is that our defence didnt have a collective mare....naff all the manager can do during the game in these unique situations, whether the manager be Martinez, Moyes or Howard Kendall. Liverpool had a plan...defend in numbers and counter attack. And it worked great with our generous help!!! Of all the games for it to happen!!! I thought Alcaraz was largely poor, Pienaar was shambolic, lukaku wasnt in it before he went off, and Naismith had no hope. Was actually quite impressed with Stones a number of times, caught too far forward for one goal. Miralas was smart. Barkley looked good. Barry and McCarthy...not sure!!! Just look forward to getting back on track. The season to me is about 38 games, not 1. Matt, Bailey and Pearso 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 The reason why we lost this game wasnt because we pressed too high up or anything like that. They attempted to play a similar style at ours (where a counter attacking style would suit the away team more) but we shut them down because we stopped them from playing for 90% of the game. Today we gave them too much space and time. We didnt press them hard enough IMO and part of that is probably due to the changes in the squad and fitness of certain players too. Tbh I didnt see anything wrong with Stones for the goals, 2nd goal we shouldnt have lost possession and 3rd goal Jags and Alcaraz were away with the fairies. If Stones stays back, we struggle to move the ball out of defence even more, then we end up going long and then we end up down shits creek yet again. We could have sat back on the counter, but we would have probably had the same problems moving the ball forward as the scenario above and in the same way Liverpool did at times when we pressed them up the pitch. It fucked up badly tonight and we were horribly exposed, but Im sure Martinez set out to close them quicker and keep the ball better and I bet he wouldnt change that philosophy and I dont think he should do either. For years I havent wanted to attack teams and try and play the right way. We tried it today and it didnt work for whatever reason but at least we tried. think martinez has admitted something similar...after the first goal they chased it too much and then they got 2 quick fire goals. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Kept having a go at them at 4-0 down, don't think I seen us have a go at them at 0-0 under Moyes. I've said before I would sooner get battered having a go at playing football and attacking than playing the shite Moyes had us doing and losing 1-0. Typical as if it's not bad enough that I have the shitest night imaginable having to listen to those inbred Norwegian fuckers taking the piss all night I have to go and miss the part where Everton had a go MC11 and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2i0 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Fuck off, everyone wanted alcaraz in before tonight. The one thing about alcaraz that I've noticed is it looks like it doesn't hurt him as much as Jags when he ducks up. He has a kind of smerk on his face all the time. Might be nothing but it gets to me a bit. I wanna see them crying when they fuck up. I know RM bring him to the club because Alcaraz saved his ass from relegation at least two seasons, but Heitinga is 10x times better and also he can play in the Dirty defensive middlefield role...We doing a cheapshot by selling him like a noob, after 4yrs we cant deny our solid defense because of him. awful move Alcaraz for Heitinga... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Then don't fucking read it you prick. You got your thoughts on the game, others have theirs. Can't even say a goddamn thing anymore without some cunt jumping in and making belligerent comments. Concentrate on the fucking game, not preferences and what you see issue with with other participants. You may not like other names on these pages - they may not like you - but no sense in supporters of the same club at each others throats, and in no goddamn mood for the usual snide attacks. The team got a heavy defeat this night right ? To oppositon we'd rather not lose to Ok ? It's a bad time for everyone, but focus on the ineptitude of the goddamn team if nothing else, and not other participants you take issue with. The fight's not here - It's out there There's really nothing else to be said here. Team suffered a heavy loss, appeared a lackluster performance for the most part, in all probability won't achieve champions league soccer now, going to take a game or two to get back from this - time we can't afford to lose - but there's no good crying over tonight, we can't change what just occured. Would suggest participants focus on the weeks ahead and the good of the team following the aftermath of tonight over issues with others - more so supporters of the same goddamn club side. May not say the right things in some peoples eyes, but only want the team to do well, and tell things as I see it. Fight amongst your fucking 'selves, there's nothing more to be done this night. Say again suggest people focus on team progress, over some words on a goddamn screen that one or two decided to find issue with. Got enough to deal with underway. I'll deal with this another time when I've calmed down. Oh fuck it here goes.... All your posts seem to be opinions of radio commentators or "interesting" facts you've googled and then quote "if memory serves me well". Quite often the posts have no opinion at all but I still read them In the vein hope that it will be the one off insightful post I've never read. Rarely you watch a game (self confessed) and then dominate the message board with drivel. I could point out each one individually but my post tally would be nearer a 1000 if that was the case. Lastly, I've never called a fellow Evertonian on here (or anywhere) a cunt or prick so wind your neck in and stop being belligerent. For the record I will still read your comments and look forward to any interesting and thought provoking posts in future. chicagoblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 28, 2014 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I love Roberto but I think he got it horribly wrong tonight. He opted to play his favourites when some of them clearly were not fit enough Hibbo should have played ahead of Stones and a fit Hietinga is surely a better bet than an unfit Alcaraz and an unfit Jags Osman should have started ahead of a clearly unfit Piennar Rodgers did his homework and they had us sussed before a ball was kicked We were way to gung-ho and should have been trying to get a foothold in the game instead of playing straight into their hands and leaving Sturridge and Suarez the freedom of the park chicagoblue, Sideliner, Matt and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 This game was crying out for pace at the back to cover the counter attacks. We had no pace without Sylvain and Seamus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearso Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Really haven't got much to add about the game that isn't blatantly obvious. All I wanna say is credit to Mirallas for not giving him. He used to strike me as a player that got the shits and was a sore loser when things didn't go his way, and I was expecting him to put in a rash challenge and get himself sent off, but to his credit he didn't stop trying the whole game. Suarez and Sturridge are class. Although we gifted them every goal, they took every one and punished us for it (bar the penalty). I don't think any other team would have capitalised on the chances as clinically as Liverpool did today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I love Roberto but I think he got it horribly wrong tonight. He opted to play his favourites when some of them clearly were not fit enough Hibbo should have played ahead of Stones and a fit Hietinga is surely a better bet than an unfit Alcaraz and an unfit Jags Osman should have started ahead of a clearly unfit Piennar Rodgers did his homework and they had us sussed before a ball was kicked We were way to gung-ho and should have been trying to get a foothold in the game instead of playing straight into their hands and leaving Sturridge and Suarez the freedom of the park Substitute Roberto with Moyes and you could be talking about the past 10 years, argggh! Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I love Roberto but I think he got it horribly wrong tonight. He opted to play his favourites when some of them clearly were not fit enough Hibbo should have played ahead of Stones and a fit Hietinga is surely a better bet than an unfit Alcaraz and an unfit Jags Osman should have started ahead of a clearly unfit Piennar Rodgers did his homework and they had us sussed before a ball was kicked We were way to gung-ho and should have been trying to get a foothold in the game instead of playing straight into their hands and leaving Sturridge and Suarez the freedom of the park Is Heitinga even in the country though? He's probably missed tactical training and video sessions as well. Doubt he'd be very prepared. Also, I don't think he would have done better than Alcaraz or Jagielka anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 To make excuses, Alcaraz + Jagielka aren't the paciest, but I reckon they are both not 100% fit and were slower than usual today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearso Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) DK just a question, how can you say Liverpool aren't even that good? If you never watch your own team play I can't see how you could form an opinion on tonights performance, let alone the opponents. Well entitled to your own opinion mate but I think it irks some people on here when it's not based on anything. Edited January 29, 2014 by Pearso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Liverpool with Sturridge and Suarez playing are a top 4 side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Liverpool with Sturridge and Suarez playing are a top 4 side. Only an idiot would say Liverpool aren't a good side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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