Guest blueboy122 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 As Haf said, the coin throwing was before the goal.My point doesn't have anything to do with the timing of the coin throwing. What I am saying is that the conduct of the players doesn't help eradicate things like this. I seriously doubt if John Flanagan went over to take a corner he would be pelted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 My point doesn't have anything to do with the timing of the coin throwing. What I am saying is that the conduct of the players doesn't help eradicate things like this. I seriously doubt if John Flanagan went over to take a corner he would be pelted Spot on mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Watching that again Stones had an absolute mare. Heavily involved in the fourth aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 A bit more professionalism from players would go along way into reducing these types of incidents. Players like Suarez, Gerrard, Adebayor, Rooney, Bellamy, John Terry, Ashley Cole I am afraid don't cover themselves in glory and do leave themselves open to abuse, coin throwing etc from the volatile fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Garry Neville was another! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Find it difficult to understand why football players who are paid so much find it hard to do the simplest of things and that is behave like a decent human being. What's happened to sportsmanship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) I don't condone the coin throwing can I just point out before someone jumps on me for looking at it more roundly Edited January 29, 2014 by blueboy122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Throwing coins??? I'd have more respect for the fan walking up and chinning them if the individual was so worthy of being assaulted. As it happens they aren't, it's just pantomime villain shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Look, this coin throwing thing. It has no relevance what players earn, none at all. They are paid a market rate for their worth, same as every job. And a hell if a lot of players, suarez included, do more for charity and good causes that we can even think of. That part is never in the press though is it? Because the aim of the press is to ignite interest and sell...players and good causes dont do this. We come across twats, proper twats, in everyday life...we work amongst them and we serve them. Do we throw coins at them? No. Why? Because we know its wrong. So what changes when we enter a football stadium? And you can bet your house we would all whinge like we got barbed wire up our arse if they lobed the coin back. Back to the game....we were just shit. Players who have been key for us decided to go missing and make numerous mistakes. It would have made no difference who started and where, it came down to the same core players. Its ok saying after the game that RM should have done this, done that, played this player over that player...thats easy. It would be good to see these things said before kick off...then it has more substance. On this day, it would make no diffetence...there was no real option other to play those selected. The other options would have been no better. Liverpool executed the perfect game plan. Now some will say Im just one of those who see's no wrong in RM. Not true. I admire him as a man, a footy manager and his positive philosphy on life. Its also really important to note that he is just 40, thats a baby age in football management. Yet for years he has been lauded as a brilliant football manager, he is highly rated and thought of in the game...and we think we know better?!!! As a club, we are real lucky to have him. He will make mistakes, but like all honest people, he'll know that and will correct it. He looked genuinly sore after the derby. My one concern with how we play is that it is too slow at the back. We want too much time on the ball back there. WBA first highlighted this, and I am sure Rodgers watched that and told his pacy forwards to press quickly...and it worked. So I think that needs tweaking. And Im sure it will be. Bit what do I know?!!! Ha!!! I draw a line under this game and look forward to see how we react....and what happens before midnight on friday ; ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Throwing coins??? I'd have more respect for the fan walking up and chinning them if the individual was so worthy of being assaulted. As it happens they aren't, it's just pantomime villain shite. That's my point to us civilised human beings its all trivial childish behaviour from the players as we expect no less from these arrogant egotistic over paid knob heads known as footballers but to other people its more than that. If the players behaved themselves I am sure we would see a lot less of this incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Look, this coin throwing thing. It has no relevance what players earn, none at all. They are paid a market rate for their worth, same as every job. And a hell if a lot of players, suarez included, do more for charity and good causes that we can even think of. That part is never in the press though is it? Because the aim of the press is to ignite interest and sell...players and good causes dont do this. We come across twats, proper twats, in everyday life...we work amongst them and we serve them. Do we throw coins at them? No. Why? Because we know its wrong. So what changes when we enter a football stadium? And you can bet your house we would all whinge like we got barbed wire up our arse if they lobed the coin back. Back to the game....we were just shit. Players who have been key for us decided to go missing and make numerous mistakes. It would have made no difference who started and where, it came down to the same core players. Its ok saying after the game that RM should have done this, done that, played this player over that player...thats easy. It would be good to see these things said before kick off...then it has more substance. On this day, it would make no diffetence...there was no real option other to play those selected. The other options would have been no better. Liverpool executed the perfect game plan. Now some will say Im just one of those who see's no wrong in RM. Not true. I admire him as a man, a footy manager and his positive philosphy on life. Its also really important to note that he is just 40, thats a baby age in football management. Yet for years he has been lauded as a brilliant football manager, he is highly rated and thought of in the game...and we think we know better?!!! As a club, we are real lucky to have him. He will make mistakes, but like all honest people, he'll know that and will correct it. He looked genuinly sore after the derby. My one concern with how we play is that it is too slow at the back. We want too much time on the ball back there. WBA first highlighted this, and I am sure Rodgers watched that and told his pacy forwards to press quickly...and it worked. So I think that needs tweaking. And Im sure it will be. Bit what do I know?!!! Ha!!! I draw a line under this game and look forward to see how we react....and what happens before midnight on friday ; ) I don't disagree with what you are saying but I am certain that certain players incite it themselves. If Kolo Toure, John Flanagan, Couthino went over to take the corner then I am sure this incident wouldn't of happened not that it should anyway. Players don't help themselves I am afraid and make themselves targets by acting the way they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 You keep contradicting yourself. the point in bold being the most obvious. Tactically we werent that bad, but the shite's tactics were perfect and they exposed us? how could are tactics be good then if we're being exposed? ("the biggest culprits were Barry, Baines, Jags and Pienaar...but lets not start turning on the players that have done so well up to now?) Nobody is turning on Martinez at all, thats a stupid comment. Just because we have picked out a downfall of yesterdays game that was down to him, does not mean we are turning on him. We just hope that he learns from this. And in response to your earlier post, Liverpool were not harrying us high up the pitch at all! if you think that then i'd question if you watched the game last night. It was clear to see, they sat back and invited us on to them and slaughtered us on the counter because we were the ones pressing so high up the pitch! No I'm not contradicting myself. Its possible for one team to have good tactics and the other ones to be better. If the individual errors hadnt exposed us our tactics would have worked pretty well. As soon as they scored the first we were always going to find it difficult given how good they are on the counter attack. If we score the first, we are in the perfect position to control the game. Other than Pienaar not playing, I'm not sure what else we could have done differently that would have resulted in a different scoreline given the individual errors that were made. Yes they did, especially early on but not so much as the game progressed (because they didnt need to being 2 or more ahead). The 2nd goal came from them pressing us and so did the 4th. I cant remember exactly how the 3rd materialised now or the penalty but they were in our faces from the word go and even the Sturridge chance late in the 2nd half came from them pressing in our half of the pitch causing Jags to misplace his pass. We didnt press enough IMO, as when we did we caused them problems and turned the ball over ourselves. When we conceded possession we dropped deeper and got set and we looked solid defensively when we got into that position. Anyway, its not even important now, Im sure we have both got plenty off our chest . Hopefully we get a reaction against Villa as the only consolation to being beaten by that lot is to beat them in the race for 4th. Im assuming theres no handbags tone there? Ive had about 3hrs kip and wasnt in the best of moods before last night... Youve already said how I wouldve approached it in a previous post, 3 CB at the back with Hibbert and Baines to cover. Ok, Hibbert would not have been match fit either but then he has the experience to read the game which I hope would make up for part of it. Otherwise Heits inbetween Alcaraz and Jags, leaving Stones to do the RWB role (which he did quite well in my opinion). I know, the reaction of putting another slow CB in there isnt ideal, Im thinking about who was available, and with 3 of them there Im thinking there wouldnt have been anywhere near as many open spaces to exploit, making where to counter into less obvious. Naismith (and I like the guy) scored 2 goals against Stevenage, not quite the same ilk as Liverpool. Mirallas has proven to be good as the focal point so I wouldve moved him up, Lukaku for McGeady and left Pienaar on til halftime before subbing him with Ossie. Then, I wouldve brought Naismith on for Barkley with 15mins to go. http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2014/01/28/derby-defeat-hurts-martinez He basically says the same as I did. Ok, maybe Im harsh saying its mostly his fault. Barry and Jags gave away 3 of the goals between them, so they were individual errors and the manager cannot be accountable for that. I just dont think we setup right, and I think he shouldve calmed the guys down Im not turning on anyone, I was trying to vent in a constructive manner, which is why I was ending the posts with the positives and bigger picture. Just a general question, because I have heard a lot of people saying what was wrong but not how we could have changed things for the better. I wasn't intending to add a bitchy tone although I appreciate it does come across like that sometimes! I agree 3/5 at the back would have worked nicely or at least better, but I hadn't even considered that before the match and I didn't see anyone else either which makes it quite after the event. I think Mirallas is a good focal point as a striker when he has space to exploit and my worry about moving him would be that he was having such a good game anyway that forcing him to move into a different position might have reduced his effectiveness. Other than his goals Naismith worked quite well at finding space, and moving the CB's around and that's why I think Martinez wanted him in there, especially with him being good in the air. I don't think he did too badly in the grand scheme of things playing as a striker. A couple of times he linked up nicely and he wasn't too far off scoring from McCarthys scuffed shot. Martinez says that they pushed forward too aggressively which I wouldn't disagree with as being a contributing factor, but I'm sure he knows that it was basic individual errors from key players that caused those players to become out of position its just not like he is going to give them a dressing down in public. In short my view is that it was them individual errors which exposed key weaknesses in our system and whilst I do agree that being too attacking, or pressing high in attack or not having lightening quick defenders are minor contributing factors which caused the house to fall in, being attacking and pressing high in attack would have been a strength of the system had we kept hold of the ball. You take those strengths away and we aren't the same team. Fair enough with that last bit Matt, like I mentioned with GR I think we have all vented for a bit now and hopefully this is the kick up the backside we needed! I hope you're feeling better now btw! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Newty - quick question. Why do you bother going on football forums where personal opinions are what they're all about? I mean, you don't seem to like personal opinions because the manager knows best. But the whole point of a forum is to discuss things and it'd be pretty boring and empty of anything worth reading if we just all discussed things like sheep no? Sam Allardyce has also been a manager for a very long time but I'm sure you'd disagree with some things he does . Tbh, it's not really about thinking I/we/you/they know better than the manager, it's just venting most of the time. Just a way to relieve the shit. pete0 and GoodisonRoad 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Just a general question, because I have heard a lot of people saying what was wrong but not how we could have changed things for the better. I wasn't intending to add a bitchy tone although I appreciate it does come across like that sometimes! I agree 3/5 at the back would have worked nicely or at least better, but I hadn't even considered that before the match and I didn't see anyone else either which makes it quite after the event. I think Mirallas is a good focal point as a striker when he has space to exploit and my worry about moving him would be that he was having such a good game anyway that forcing him to move into a different position might have reduced his effectiveness. Other than his goals Naismith worked quite well at finding space, and moving the CB's around and that's why I think Martinez wanted him in there, especially with him being good in the air. I don't think he did too badly in the grand scheme of things playing as a striker. A couple of times he linked up nicely and he wasn't too far off scoring from McCarthys scuffed shot. Martinez says that they pushed forward too aggressively which I wouldn't disagree with as being a contributing factor, but I'm sure he knows that it was basic individual errors from key players that caused those players to become out of position its just not like he is going to give them a dressing down in public. In short my view is that it was them individual errors which exposed key weaknesses in our system and whilst I do agree that being too attacking, or pressing high in attack or not having lightening quick defenders are minor contributing factors which caused the house to fall in, being attacking and pressing high in attack would have been a strength of the system had we kept hold of the ball. You take those strengths away and we aren't the same team. Fair enough with that last bit Matt, like I mentioned with GR I think we have all vented for a bit now and hopefully this is the kick up the backside we needed! I hope you're feeling better now btw! I hadnt thought about it beforehand either, because the last thing I expected was that our 2 most senior and experience players would implode. But as soon as the 2nd went in, I wouldve made changes because the issue was clear as day, to me at least - we were exposed at the back. Mirallas was not backing Stones up, which is why Stones was venturing so far up (open space) and then being left high and dry. At least putting Naismith infront of him wouldve given some workrate down the RW. Feeling better now, back in the office Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Newty - quick question. Why do you bother going on football forums where personal opinions are what they're all about? I mean, you don't seem to like personal opinions because the manager knows best. But the whole point of a forum is to discuss things and it'd be pretty boring and empty of anything worth reading if we just all discussed things like sheep no? Sam Allardyce has also been a manager for a very long time but I'm sure you'd disagree with some things he does . Tbh, it's not really about thinking I/we/you/they know better than the manager, it's just venting most of the time. Just a way to relieve the shit. Oh yes....I love a quickie! I agree with everything your saying in that question/statement. Which kind of over rides your assumption that I dont like opinions. I have no issues with anyones opinions, as such. Its the comments that are so wide of the mark that open my eyes. Like, is the poster really thinking that?! Some are just overly negative, but I guess thats just different personalities. Some just leave you scratching your head. And yeah, some are based on emotion. You questioning my opinion?! ; ) Oh, if you want to relieve some of the shit, best way is to have a good old wank. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 If we had the most perfect manager on the planet I would question him.... maybe in doing so I would be demonstrating why I am not a football manager but yep it's all down to opinions and thats what makes it beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 If we had the most perfect manager on the planet I would question him.... maybe in doing so I would be demonstrating why I am not a football manager but yep it's all down to opinions and thats what makes it beautiful. Yep. The world revolves around opinions. And everyones own opinion is right to themselves at the very least. Hitler had an opinion. The KKK have an opinion. Kim Jong-un has an opinion Suppose it makes life interesting!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Yep. The world revolves around opinions. And everyones own opinion is right to themselves at the very least. Hitler had an opinion. The KKK have an opinion. Kim Jong-un has an opinion Suppose it makes life interesting!!! There are opinions and then there are psychopaths....not everybody needs listening to, some just need a lobotomy. Mentioning no names . Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 There are opinions and then there are psychopaths....not everybody needs listening to, some just need a lobotomy. Mentioning no names . Hehe!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 There are opinions and then there are psychopaths....not everybody needs listening to, some just need a lobotomy. Mentioning no names . What do the kopites fall into? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 What do the kopites fall into? Despair most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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