Liverpool (Away)

[2i0]

DK just a question, how can you say Liverpool aren't even that good? If you never watch your own team play I can't see how you could form an opinion on tonights performance, let alone the opponents. Well entitled to your own opinion mate but I think it irks some people on here when it's not based on anything.

i believe we are more solid than them, i saw a couple of Liverpool(since ESPN cast their matches along with City in my region) they are volatile, fast pace style and like United they play like shit 60minutes and talented players score lots of goals in 30mins also Suarez carrying them this season....thats why they are behind Arsenal,City and Chelsea...

[Cornish Steve]

Am I the only one wondering why two comparatively new members are posting ridiculously negative messages to this thread? Methinks it's time to find the 'Ignore' feature.

[Droobie]

I found a highlight from the game...

 

[chicagoblue]

Decided to go full masochism and watch the match on replay. Watched it with a different eye obviously.

 

First 15 minutes I think we looked fine. True, attempts were 6-1 in favor of Liverpool at that point, but Barkley's was at least as dangerous as anything they manufactured to that point.

 

Sterling's chance on 19 minutes was the first sign that our back four might be in trouble. No one picked up the run and Sturridge had all the time in the world to pick him out. Took 3 touches without a tackle coming in. Very good save on that attempt by Howard.

 

1st Liverpool goal: Stones did well to block Suarez's first attempt, but from the corner it was a clusterfucktastrophe. Barkley and Barry get in each others way and Gerrard runs away from him, Barry slips and wrecks Lukaku. Don't think you can blame Alcaraz, he was marking his man. McCarthy on the line got a touch, but nothing else he could do.

 

Sturridge had his first opportunity when he struck the curler from outside the box. McCarthy at fault there for not closing him down.

 

We then played quite well for the next 10 minutes and had several good chances. 29th minute Jags had a good opportunity when he slipped in the box, but got off a good shot that was well saved by Mignolet. On the rebound the angle was against Barry but he picked the wrong option and missed everything.

 

31st minute Mirallas had a very good effort go inches wide.

 

To be fair to us, either of those could have gone in and the whole game would have completely changed, but straight from Mirallas' attempt Liverpool went and scored number 2

 

2nd goal: This was the turning point in the game where we fell apart. We had managed to recover from the 1st goal and loss of Lukaku, but lost the plot after this. Watched this a couple times and have to say this one rests pretty much with Barry who played a terrible ball towards Baines who never had a chance of getting there. Liverpool broke immediately, Stones had been pushing up, true, but I don't think you can say he was out of position. Alcaraz and Jagielka didn't see Sturridge running off them and allowed him in. Could Howard have done better to close the angle? Maybe, but don't think you can blame him. Calamitous defending in front of him.

 

3rd goal: We hadn't even registered the second before we were 3 behind. Jags and Alcaraz completely caught out, not sure what they were watching but it wasn't the ball and it wasn't the man. Sturridge just jogged past them to play the lob. What was Howard doing rushing out for that, got nowhere near it. If he'd stayed on his line the D would have been back and Sturridge still had plenty to do.

 

4th goal:Stones played ball back to Jags who just miscontrolled then lost the chance to stop Suarez. Needed to foul him immediately, but let him run away.

 

--

 

After the 4th goal we actually started to get a foothold back in the game, of course, by then Liverpool were simply holding the lead and looking to run through gaps.

 

Pretty clear that we had a few players that weren't match fit. Gerrard was able to match Barkley throughout the match and I counted at least 3 blocks he put in. Pienaar was a mixed bag, certainly gave the ball away more than he should have, but once he came off we lost all attacking intent on the left side.

 

Neither of our CBs were fit, but 1 on 1 I actually think Stones did really well and to me he looked a good deal quick than Jags or Alacaraz. Hindsight of course, but I think maybe he should have been in the middle alongside whichever of the two CBs was more fit.

 

Did Barkley make a few poor choices, no question, but he still looked miles better than anyone else on the ball save Mirallas.

 

Mirallas, apart from his rash challenge on Toure, was MotM again.

 

Don't think Naismith did anything positive of note, might have had his goal, but I think that's the only time he even displayed attacking intent. His 1 touch passing is especially horrendous, always playing hospital balls and into touch unnecessarily. Vellios must be completely fucking the dog not to get a look in ahead of him. Hindsight again, but should have been Osman or McGeady on for Lukaku with Mirallas through the middle.

 

Baines was anonymous, maybe one good cross, his corners were poor for me and while he wasn't exposed defensively we certainly needed him attacking with the defensive minded Stones on the other side.

 

McCarthy for me was decent, had a chance or two that he could have done better with, but he was the only one in the middle of the park with energy.

Edited January 29, 2014 by chicagoblue

[StevieG]

I found a highlight from the game...

 

Maybe she wished she was a red tonight lol.

 

Good game, In a house full of BLUEnoses i'm the only Red like so it feels so good i knew after gerrard scored and then lukaku gets injured it was ours. Any news on lukaku btw?

Edited January 29, 2014 by StevieG

[Oztoffee]

C'mon folks, get the excuses out of the way. We were fucked to a standstill by a team that were far better on the night. Saw the Arsenal game too, and on last night's performance we would have given a good account of ourselves against them....the shite were just far too good and I daresay would have beaten anyone.

As an aside, it shows how well off the top clubs are when they have a bench that is as strong as the side that starts. We havn't got that luxury and last night was always going to be difficult....shows the gap that we have to overcome to be top four continuously (not just for a week here and there).

Good sign though, we were still at it at the end, going forward and trying to score.

 

COYB

[StevieG]

I think its safe to say yas won't be signing lukaku now, throwing transfer funds at Suarez during his corner, shocking.

[Bill]

Yeah, No excuse for that and i hope they get banned if the cameras can pick them out.

 

As for the game, we were well and truly stuffed, Similarities to the Wigan semi final last season, OK for 20 minutes then come back from the piss-house and find them 3-0 down.

Very bad day at the office.

[Mirallas]

I found a highlight from the game...

 

 

She must be thinking that's the worst date ever

[Shukes]

Ok here goes.

 

Mirallas was brilliant last night. How most papers scored him 6/10 i dont understand. Yes we lost 4.0 but he was great last night.

 

Barkley had a few moments last night but overall was poor. Again a few people on here have said he had played well! but not in the match i watched. He went on a decent run and played a few decent balls, but he also lost the ball right on the edge of our penalty area when he tried to dribble the ball out and got caught in possesion on numerous occasions. At what minute was he subbed because i really didnt notice him in the second half.

 

Pienaar was obviously not back from injury. the endeavour was there but there didnt seem any fitness. He is still the best player we have at the moment.

 

Lukaku's most notable moment was tripping over and getting injured.

 

Defence speaks for itself, woeful! Stones is not a premier player yet and needs to be loaned out. It's been glaringly obvious for weeks now and last night was a harsh lesson for him.

 

But come on were we really 4.0 bad? i dont think so, not at all. we still created chance's and pushed forward. We just had no natural strikers on the field after Lukaku went off.

We DID come close to scoring on several occasions. Not an opinion but a fact. On another day we wouldnt have had flat footed defenders, the third and fourth goals in particular were pub team bad. And we would have finished a few chances ourselves.

 

We will come back from this and we will stuff Villa on saturday.

 

The fans that threw coins embarrassed us all. Us fighting amongst ourselves is just frustration and i am sure no one means anything by it.

 

COYB!

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

Is Heitinga even in the country though? He's probably missed tactical training and video sessions as well. Doubt he'd be very prepared. Also, I don't think he would have done better than Alcaraz or Jagielka anyway.

 

He is an experienced centre half who has played in a World Cup final , how many videos does he really need to watch? Im not Johnny's biggest fan but the point is he was fit and the other 2 clearly were not

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Ok here goes.

 

Mirallas was brilliant last night. How most papers scored him 6/10 i dont understand. Yes we lost 4.0 but he was great last night.

 

Barkley had a few moments last night but overall was poor. Again a few people on here have said he had played well! but not in the match i watched. He went on a decent run and played a few decent balls, but he also lost the ball right on the edge of our penalty area when he tried to dribble the ball out and got caught in possesion on numerous occasions. At what minute was he subbed because i really didnt notice him in the second half.

 

Pienaar was obviously not back from injury. the endeavour was there but there didnt seem any fitness. He is still the best player we have at the moment.

 

Lukaku's most notable moment was tripping over and getting injured.

 

Defence speaks for itself, woeful! Stones is not a premier player yet and needs to be loaned out. It's been glaringly obvious for weeks now and last night was a harsh lesson for him.

 

But come on were we really 4.0 bad? i dont think so, not at all. we still created chance's and pushed forward. We just had no natural strikers on the field after Lukaku went off.

We DID come close to scoring on several occasions. Not an opinion but a fact. On another day we wouldnt have had flat footed defenders, the third and fourth goals in particular were pub team bad. And we would have finished a few chances ourselves.

 

We will come back from this and we will stuff Villa on saturday.

 

The fans that threw coins embarrassed us all. Us fighting amongst ourselves is just frustration and i am sure no one means anything by it.

 

COYB!

 

 

I hope your right but Villa are probably the last team we want to be playing if we put that back four out again.

 

Villa will sit back and hit us on the break with pace, precisely the tactic that destroyed us last night. If Villa play as well as they did at Analfield I can see us getting another hiding unless we get Coleman and Distin back

[GoodisonRoad]

 

 

Defence speaks for itself, woeful! Stones is not a premier player yet and needs to be loaned out. It's been glaringly obvious for weeks now and last night was a harsh lesson for him.

 

 

You cant be serious? He's had one bad game and that was last night being played out of position and being asked to do something he was never going to be able to do I.E press high up and do what Coleman does going forward. Get a grip.

 

Like Dunc said, Villa is the worst team to come up against after that debacle. If we deploy the tactics we did last night against Villa, theres only going to be one outcome....and it aint gonna be pretty.

[GoodisonRoad]

I think its safe to say yas won't be signing lukaku now, throwing transfer funds at Suarez during his corner, shocking.

 

Must say mate, your English is brilliant for a Norweigan.

[Pearso]

 

You cant be serious? He's had one bad game and that was last night being played out of position and being asked to do something he was never going to be able to do I.E press high up and do what Coleman does going forward. Get a grip.

 

I agree. I've personally thought he's been class in his appearances so far. I didn't even think he was that bad last night to be completely honest, just got caught a few times out of position, but as mentioned above, he's been training/playing as a centre half all season.

[marcopaulo]

 

Must say mate, your English is brilliant for a Norweigan.

 

 

yes and he made a meal of that as well offering the coin to the ref so fuck off and get on the banter site you prick.

 

 

why do you guys even bite?

[Matt]

 

 

 

 

why do you guys even bite?

you bit Mirallas

[GoodisonRoad]

 

 

 

 

why do you guys even bite?

 

Couldnt help myself. In a shite mood this morning.

you bit Mirallas

 

Yeah Marco!

[Matt]

so... thanks to my stomach bug and the stress of the game, I was up all night reflecting on this whilst getting intimate with the porcelain, again....

 

First of all, Haf - time to take the honeymoon glasses off mate. "At least we stuck to our principles"? Ha! We didnt adapt to the situation when the evidence was clear to see. Something youve berrated Moyes for repeatedly. Ive not felt that bad or embarrassed under Moyes but no doubt you'll find some nonsense to deflect away from a tactical fuck up.

 

Second - anyone writing off Stones after 1 bad game doesnt understand football. He put in several excellent tackles and only occasionally out of position, which wouldnt have mattered if Jags and Barry werent passing with their boots tied together. The lad was asked to deal with an in form, world class player and did so, for the most part, very well

 

Third - most of the blame goes on the manager. I said it before the game, after the teamsheet was announced, that I hoped the likes of Pienaar, Barkley and Alacaraz werent rushed back just for the derby. Well, they were. Not one of them looked fit. Not even close in Pienaars case. Gerrard had Barkley in his pocket because the lad couldnt run for 5 mins without having to step back. Then, Naismith on, when we had McGeady on the bench - someone with pace - was a terrible decision. Granted, I understand why he did it, Naismiths a worker and maybe graft couldve been a solution? Well, if anyone watched any of the goals bar the 1st,

graft wouldnt have helped, we needed pace. It was like Moyes was making the subs...

 

Plus, if we hadnt had lost Lukaku at the same time they had scored, I dont think we wouldve been more gungho about our approach, and this is something the manager shouldve controlled. The response was positive but we got too comfortable, defending around the halfway line, against possibly the fastest attacking trio around, and completely lacked any awareness as to where the 3 of them where.

 

Now, and this hurts, credit where credit is due. Rodgers got his tactics spot on. Ive said for a long time its easy to negate our style - sit back to midway of their half and close us down. Thats all they did yesterday and we collapsed in on ourselves. Hospital passes, clear giveaways - all down to them pressing us then ripping us to shreds with pace against an unfit pairing of CBs. Its one of the reasons we've had so many draws too against the lower clubs, they pack the midfield and close us down, and we are missing the players to make sure that isnt an issue.

 

Positives to take from the game? not many really although we might as well review them.

 

Mirallas, despite the game long lost, continued fighting, which is something hes been criticized about repeatedly this season. Stones played well in my opinion as did Alcaraz for the most part, and McCarthy was forever trying to clear up after Barry.

 

Also, its 1 game. Only our 3rd defeat this season and they are only 4 points ahead. People seem to think that the league is decided in 5 games! Its not, Utd are proof and they will be pushing for the top 3 come the end of the season at this rate (2 points behind us now). However, looking at our remaining fixtures, we are still clearly in with a shout. Plus, we have a handful of our key performers coming back from injury, which will give us a boost in the coming weeks, so long as theyre not rushed back.

 

So, as disappointed and angry as I am about our performance last night, Im not going to forget the bigger picture. Our expectations in this transition season have soared and maybe this was a shuddering reminder that lessons are still being learned.

[Bailey]

 

It is IMO.

 

You cant keep referring to the home game against them though mate, we had a makeshift defence tonight with a young CB asked to play at RB, we clearly couldn't play the game we are used to. Im not saying we should have sat back and give them more time, but we should have been more patient in our build up play and not played such a high line defensively. The Stones thing wasnt aimed at you btw, just saw a few people getting on his back and cant really understand why.

 

Thats one thing thats starting to worry me now, how Martinez seemingly doesnt want to change his philosophy when he doesnt have the players to do it. he couldnt have possibly have expected Stones to come in and do a similar job to Coleman and he couldnt have expected Jags or Alcaraz to get us out of tricky situations with their pace like Distin does, so he has to go about it in a slightly different way and he didnt seem to tonight which is worrying, it was a similar situation at WBA.

 

But we couldnt be more patient in our build up because Liverpool were pressing us high up the pitch! If we did that it would turn into a game of hoof ball. Add that to the fact that we would then give the likes of Sturridge, Suarez and Coutinho more room in the final third and you're asking for just as much trouble.

 

 

Pretty much agree. People are blaming Stones' lack of end product like it's the reason we lost 4-0 while Liverpool won 4-0 when their right back barely crossed the halfway line. He played right back for Barsnley too btw and I remember seeing video footage of him doing it for our U21s and attacking and even getting an assist last season. I think that is how he plays naturally.

 

Mirallas was given a free role, which meant Cissokho could defend very narrow and basically help pack their box. Stones was left to cover the entire right flank and fight it out with their left winger. And he did often find himself in space, he didn't put any good final balls into the box, but he did use the ball well enough I thought. Defensively our backline had to shift over to that side when we lost the ball though because he is naturally going to take time to recover into his position and this often left us scrambling and giving away too much space. I don't even remember how the fuck we got into that position for the second goal, but if it was a counter because someone gave bad pass while he was in space again you can hardly blame him for it.

 

Thought Stones did alright as well, certainly no fault of his for the goals. For the most part he did alright going forward and getting into attacking positions but he didnt have the final ball. The same problem Coleman had at the start of the season.

 

Unfortunately I think him and Jagielka were the weak link tonight.

 

The lad was well out of position. There is a difference between being told to push up and pushing up whilst leaving huge space and an opponent in it.

 

If Coleman was playing tonight that second Goal most certainly wouldn't have came about. It highlighted that Coleman is an absolutely fantastic player and John Stones is not a modern day Full Back. He had no idea going forward.

 

I wasn't expecting wonders. But what I was expecting is positional sense. He had none.

 

Coleman would have done sweet fuck all to stop that goal. He is quick but he would have been in the same sort of starting position. Once again I repeat that if Barry/Baines hadnt lost possession he would have been in the perfect space to the receive the ball, like he was for a lot of the game.

 

forgot to mention how slow is Alcaraz...i prefer Heitinga 100x times over him and we gonna sell him.

 

Alcaraz is quicker than Heitinga and given current form he is a better defender. He got caught out on a few occasions but he also did a lot of good defensive work as well.

 

Jagielka + Alcaraz = no pace. See fourth goal. There wasn't much else we could have done tonight. But that partnership is a recipient for disaster.

 

Jagielka was absolutely shocking, it's always been the same if he hasn't got pace covering him he gets exposed.

 

Jagielka is pretty quick but Suarez is quicker. They gave Suarez a start and its no surprise that he beat them. Again pace isnt the issue, its giving the ball away in the first place that is. You seem to have an ability to complete ignore the cause of the problem.

 

Decided to go full masochism and watch the match on replay. Watched it with a different eye obviously.

 

First 15 minutes I think we looked fine. True, attempts were 6-1 in favor of Liverpool at that point, but Barkley's was at least as dangerous as anything they manufactured to that point.

 

Sterling's chance on 19 minutes was the first sign that our back four might be in trouble. No one picked up the run and Sturridge had all the time in the world to pick him out. Took 3 touches without a tackle coming in. Very good save on that attempt by Howard.

 

1st Liverpool goal: Stones did well to block Suarez's first attempt, but from the corner it was a clusterfucktastrophe. Barkley and Barry get in each others way and Gerrard runs away from him, Barry slips and wrecks Lukaku. Don't think you can blame Alcaraz, he was marking his man. McCarthy on the line got a touch, but nothing else he could do.

 

Sturridge had his first opportunity when he struck the curler from outside the box. McCarthy at fault there for not closing him down.

 

We then played quite well for the next 10 minutes and had several good chances. 29th minute Jags had a good opportunity when he slipped in the box, but got off a good shot that was well saved by Mignolet. On the rebound the angle was against Barry but he picked the wrong option and missed everything.

 

31st minute Mirallas had a very good effort go inches wide.

 

To be fair to us, either of those could have gone in and the whole game would have completely changed, but straight from Mirallas' attempt Liverpool went and scored number 2

 

2nd goal: This was the turning point in the game where we fell apart. We had managed to recover from the 1st goal and loss of Lukaku, but lost the plot after this. Watched this a couple times and have to say this one rests pretty much with Barry who played a terrible ball towards Baines who never had a chance of getting there. Liverpool broke immediately, Stones had been pushing up, true, but I don't think you can say he was out of position. Alcaraz and Jagielka didn't see Sturridge running off them and allowed him in. Could Howard have done better to close the angle? Maybe, but don't think you can blame him. Calamitous defending in front of him.

 

3rd goal: We hadn't even registered the second before we were 3 behind. Jags and Alcaraz completely caught out, not sure what they were watching but it wasn't the ball and it wasn't the man. Sturridge just jogged past them to play the lob. What was Howard doing rushing out for that, got nowhere near it. If he'd stayed on his line the D would have been back and Sturridge still had plenty to do.

 

4th goal:Stones played ball back to Jags who just miscontrolled then lost the chance to stop Suarez. Needed to foul him immediately, but let him run away.

 

--

 

After the 4th goal we actually started to get a foothold back in the game, of course, by then Liverpool were simply holding the lead and looking to run through gaps.

 

Pretty clear that we had a few players that weren't match fit. Gerrard was able to match Barkley throughout the match and I counted at least 3 blocks he put in. Pienaar was a mixed bag, certainly gave the ball away more than he should have, but once he came off we lost all attacking intent on the left side.

 

Neither of our CBs were fit, but 1 on 1 I actually think Stones did really well and to me he looked a good deal quick than Jags or Alacaraz. Hindsight of course, but I think maybe he should have been in the middle alongside whichever of the two CBs was more fit.

 

Did Barkley make a few poor choices, no question, but he still looked miles better than anyone else on the ball save Mirallas.

 

Mirallas, apart from his rash challenge on Toure, was MotM again.

 

Don't think Naismith did anything positive of note, might have had his goal, but I think that's the only time he even displayed attacking intent. His 1 touch passing is especially horrendous, always playing hospital balls and into touch unnecessarily. Vellios must be completely fucking the dog not to get a look in ahead of him. Hindsight again, but should have been Osman or McGeady on for Lukaku with Mirallas through the middle.

 

Baines was anonymous, maybe one good cross, his corners were poor for me and while he wasn't exposed defensively we certainly needed him attacking with the defensive minded Stones on the other side.

 

McCarthy for me was decent, had a chance or two that he could have done better with, but he was the only one in the middle of the park with energy.

 

Good write up and spot on. I don't think you can aim too much criticism at Naismith because its a difficult role to play. He made some decent runs and he linked up play nicely without showing any real quality.

[bluenosetoffee]

Unfortunately Martinez got his tactics wrong last night. The same tactics worked against Man United and Arsenal but with player like Sterling, Suarez and Sturridge who have pace then we didn't stand a chance with Alcaraz and Jags.

Alcaraz is an okay CB but he has no pace. Jags is a quality CB but again no pace. You could tell we were missing Coleman and Distin. The two players who do track back and who have pace.

 

We played a high line and that was our downfall (like I say we did the same against United and Arsenal and it worked).

 

1st goal - Couldn't do anything about it, Gerrard got past Barry a bit to easily but a good goal overall. (Unfortunate of Barry to go into Lukaku as well).

2nd goal - should have closed down Coutinho quicker so he couldn't get the pass in but again the high line cost up with Sturridge managing to get one on one.

3rd goal - A bit unfortunate, Toure just hoofing the ball and it going straight to Sturridge. Great goal by Sturridge but again a high line.

4th goal - Mistake by Jags and Suarez took advantage of it. Simple as that.

 

We did miss the presence of Lukaku in the box. We needed someone big in the box when the corners were coming in.

 

Anyway it was a minor blip in our season but lets bounce back with a win against Villa! COYB!

[Bailey]

so... thanks to my stomach bug and the stress of the game, I was up all night reflecting on this whilst getting intimate with the porcelain, again....

 

First of all, Haf - time to take the honeymoon glasses off mate. "At least we stuck to our principles"? Ha! We didnt adapt to the situation when the evidence was clear to see. Something youve berrated Moyes for repeatedly. Ive not felt that bad or embarrassed under Moyes but no doubt you'll find some nonsense to deflect away from a tactical fuck up.

 

Second - anyone writing off Stones after 1 bad game doesnt understand football. He put in several excellent tackles and only occasionally out of position, which wouldnt have mattered if Jags and Barry werent passing with their boots tied together. The lad was asked to deal with an in form, world class player and did so, for the most part, very well

 

Third - most of the blame goes on the manager. I said it before the game, after the teamsheet was announced, that I hoped the likes of Pienaar, Barkley and Alacaraz werent rushed back just for the derby. Well, they were. Not one of them looked fit. Not even close in Pienaars case. Gerrard had Barkley in his pocket because the lad couldnt run for 5 mins without having to step back. Then, Naismith on, when we had McGeady on the bench - someone with pace - was a terrible decision. Granted, I understand why he did it, Naismiths a worker and maybe graft couldve been a solution? Well, if anyone watched any of the goals bar the 1st,

graft wouldnt have helped, we needed pace. It was like Moyes was making the subs...

 

 

So how exactly would you have proposed that we go about our game yesterday then Matt seeing as Martinez got it so wrong? Bearing in mind Hibbert & McGeady arent match fit (as I guess thats the angle you are going to take).

 

Why would you bring a pacey winger on when a striker has gone off and we needed someone who could play up front and scored two goals at the weekend?

 

Pienaar was clearly not right and I do agree that he should not have played and Osman should have started. We needed a player to keep hold of possession and bring us forward which Osman did well.

 

I didnt see anything too wrong in the performance of Barkley. Gerrard was excellent and his role was to keep him quiet and the way Liverpool packed the defence it became difficult for him to find space. I cant think of anyone else who could have come into that position and done as well.

 

I didnt think that Alcaraz wasnt fit enough and he did a lot of good things in the game. He got caught out on a few occasions and mostly when the midfield were caught out and he had no cover. Him and Jags didnt look the most organised between them and 3 days prep time (possibly less given they might not have trained due to niggles) probably didnt help either.

 

IMO the biggest culprits for our defeat come from the likes of Barry, Baines, Jags and Pienaar who all kept turning the ball over when we had good possession and that is what cost us the game not some of the bullshit I have been hearing on this forum. I understand a lot of people are venting and that's all well and good cos that match deserved a good vent but lets not act like this is the end of the world, lets not start turning on the manager and players who have done so well up to now. It was a very bad game with several individual errors. Tactically I didnt think it was bad, but Rodgers really did have his tactics perfect and players executed those tactics and they exposed us in the phases of the game that we are most vulnerable.

[Shukes]

 

You cant be serious? He's had one bad game and that was last night being played out of position and being asked to do something he was never going to be able to do I.E press high up and do what Coleman does going forward. Get a grip.

 

Like Dunc said, Villa is the worst team to come up against after that debacle. If we deploy the tactics we did last night against Villa, theres only going to be one outcome....and it aint gonna be pretty.

I am serious yes.

Last night wasn't his first bad game. He has looked shaky all month and several people have commented about it, not just me. I think he looks a great prospect for the future but I really don't think.he's ready just yet.

 

Maybe I'm a little hyper critical I don't know but it's just the way I see it at the moment.

[marcopaulo]

you bit Mirallas

 

i did it proper :shaking fist:

[Hafnia]

so... thanks to my stomach bug and the stress of the game, I was up all night reflecting on this whilst getting intimate with the porcelain, again....

 

First of all, Haf - time to take the honeymoon glasses off mate. "At least we stuck to our principles"? Ha! We didnt adapt to the situation when the evidence was clear to see. Something youve berrated Moyes for repeatedly. Ive not felt that bad or embarrassed under Moyes but no doubt you'll find some nonsense to deflect away from a tactical fuck up.

 

Second - anyone writing off Stones after 1 bad game doesnt understand football. He put in several excellent tackles and only occasionally out of position, which wouldnt have mattered if Jags and Barry werent passing with their boots tied together. The lad was asked to deal with an in form, world class player and did so, for the most part, very well

 

Third - most of the blame goes on the manager. I said it before the game, after the teamsheet was announced, that I hoped the likes of Pienaar, Barkley and Alacaraz werent rushed back just for the derby. Well, they were. Not one of them looked fit. Not even close in Pienaars case. Gerrard had Barkley in his pocket because the lad couldnt run for 5 mins without having to step back. Then, Naismith on, when we had McGeady on the bench - someone with pace - was a terrible decision. Granted, I understand why he did it, Naismiths a worker and maybe graft couldve been a solution? Well, if anyone watched any of the goals bar the 1st,

graft wouldnt have helped, we needed pace. It was like Moyes was making the subs...

 

Plus, if we hadnt had lost Lukaku at the same time they had scored, I dont think we wouldve been more gungho about our approach, and this is something the manager shouldve controlled. The response was positive but we got too comfortable, defending around the halfway line, against possibly the fastest attacking trio around, and completely lacked any awareness as to where the 3 of them where.

 

Now, and this hurts, credit where credit is due. Rodgers got his tactics spot on. Ive said for a long time its easy to negate our style - sit back to midway of their half and close us down. Thats all they did yesterday and we collapsed in on ourselves. Hospital passes, clear giveaways - all down to them pressing us then ripping us to shreds with pace against an unfit pairing of CBs. Its one of the reasons we've had so many draws too against the lower clubs, they pack the midfield and close us down, and we are missing the players to make sure that isnt an issue.

 

Positives to take from the game? not many really although we might as well review them.

 

Mirallas, despite the game long lost, continued fighting, which is something hes been criticized about repeatedly this season. Stones played well in my opinion as did Alcaraz for the most part, and McCarthy was forever trying to clear up after Barry.

 

Also, its 1 game. Only our 3rd defeat this season and they are only 4 points ahead. People seem to think that the league is decided in 5 games! Its not, Utd are proof and they will be pushing for the top 3 come the end of the season at this rate (2 points behind us now). However, looking at our remaining fixtures, we are still clearly in with a shout. Plus, we have a handful of our key performers coming back from injury, which will give us a boost in the coming weeks, so long as theyre not rushed back.

 

So, as disappointed and angry as I am about our performance last night, Im not going to forget the bigger picture. Our expectations in this transition season have soared and maybe this was a shuddering reminder that lessons are still being learned.

 

Good job we are able to judge Martinez after half a season and not just when we have lost an emotive game then eh Matt.

 

Sticking to the principles doesn't mean Martinez was right to play a high line against fast forwards with slower defenders - sticking to our principles seen us still pass the ball around, make space and try and create opportunites rather than sit deep and hit it long... at 4-0 the players would have been forgiven to sit behind the ball and keep it tight. We never did. As soon as I seen Pienaar last night I knew we were doomed, there was no cohesion between him and the ineffective Baines, his touch was awful as was Barry's.

 

I said all along that we may see the odd tonking under Martinez but we will see some games where we can be really proud, I think its fair to say that has been the case.

 

Lets not get our knickers in a twist over naismith coming on before McGeady - he hasn't played in months and is carrying a bit of timber, so you would put him on in a 100mph game?

 

Write it off, bad day at the office. Maybe you want to review the 5-6-7 goal tonkings under Moyes against Arsenal and see if you think his damage limitation, deep defence would have worked?

 

Basically Liverpool were very good last night.

[GoodisonRoad]

 

IMO the biggest culprits for our defeat come from the likes of Barry, Baines, Jags and Pienaar who all kept turning the ball over when we had good possession and that is what cost us the game not some of the bullshit I have been hearing on this forum. I understand a lot of people are venting and that's all well and good cos that match deserved a good vent but lets not act like this is the end of the world, lets not start turning on the manager and players who have done so well up to now. It was a very bad game with several individual errors. Tactically I didnt think it was bad, but Rodgers really did have his tactics perfect and players executed those tactics and they exposed us in the phases of the game that we are most vulnerable.

 

You keep contradicting yourself. the point in bold being the most obvious. Tactically we werent that bad, but the shite's tactics were perfect and they exposed us? how could are tactics be good then if we're being exposed? ("the biggest culprits were Barry, Baines, Jags and Pienaar...but lets not start turning on the players that have done so well up to now?)

 

Nobody is turning on Martinez at all, thats a stupid comment. Just because we have picked out a downfall of yesterdays game that was down to him, does not mean we are turning on him. We just hope that he learns from this.

 

And in response to your earlier post, Liverpool were not harrying us high up the pitch at all! if you think that then i'd question if you watched the game last night. It was clear to see, they sat back and invited us on to them and slaughtered us on the counter because we were the ones pressing so high up the pitch!

[MikeO]

Write it off, bad day at the office.

 

Trying to but you bastards keep talking about it :shaking fist:.

[MC11]

Matt - not writing Stones off he's a good player but last night proved he is not the sort of Right back we need as cover. The team plays with attacking full backs and without Coleman or someone a like we are hindered. I thought he got into attacking positions well but was fruitless there once he received the ball. Couldn't get a cross in or beat his man. He's a centre back and was a major contributor to the second goal.

[Matt]

 

So how exactly would you have proposed that we go about our game yesterday then Matt seeing as Martinez got it so wrong? Bearing in mind Hibbert & McGeady arent match fit (as I guess thats the angle you are going to take).

 

Why would you bring a pacey winger on when a striker has gone off and we needed someone who could play up front and scored two goals at the weekend?

 

Pienaar was clearly not right and I do agree that he should not have played and Osman should have started. We needed a player to keep hold of possession and bring us forward which Osman did well.

 

I didnt see anything too wrong in the performance of Barkley. Gerrard was excellent and his role was to keep him quiet and the way Liverpool packed the defence it became difficult for him to find space. I cant think of anyone else who could have come into that position and done as well.

 

I didnt think that Alcaraz wasnt fit enough and he did a lot of good things in the game. He got caught out on a few occasions and mostly when the midfield were caught out and he had no cover. Him and Jags didnt look the most organised between them and 3 days prep time (possibly less given they might not have trained due to niggles) probably didnt help either.

 

IMO the biggest culprits for our defeat come from the likes of Barry, Baines, Jags and Pienaar who all kept turning the ball over when we had good possession and that is what cost us the game not some of the bullshit I have been hearing on this forum. I understand a lot of people are venting and that's all well and good cos that match deserved a good vent but lets not act like this is the end of the world, lets not start turning on the manager and players who have done so well up to now. It was a very bad game with several individual errors. Tactically I didnt think it was bad, but Rodgers really did have his tactics perfect and players executed those tactics and they exposed us in the phases of the game that we are most vulnerable.

 

Im assuming theres no handbags tone there? Ive had about 3hrs kip and wasnt in the best of moods before last night...

 

Youve already said how I wouldve approached it in a previous post, 3 CB at the back with Hibbert and Baines to cover. Ok, Hibbert would not have been match fit either but then he has the experience to read the game which I hope would make up for part of it. Otherwise Heits inbetween Alcaraz and Jags, leaving Stones to do the RWB role (which he did quite well in my opinion). I know, the reaction of putting another slow CB in there isnt ideal, Im thinking about who was available, and with 3 of them there Im thinking there wouldnt have been anywhere near as many open spaces to exploit, making where to counter into less obvious.

 

Naismith (and I like the guy) scored 2 goals against Stevenage, not quite the same ilk as Liverpool. Mirallas has proven to be good as the focal point so I wouldve moved him up, Lukaku for McGeady and left Pienaar on til halftime before subbing him with Ossie. Then, I wouldve brought Naismith on for Barkley with 15mins to go.

 

 

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2014/01/28/derby-defeat-hurts-martinez

 

He basically says the same as I did. Ok, maybe Im harsh saying its mostly his fault. Barry and Jags gave away 3 of the goals between them, so they were individual errors and the manager cannot be accountable for that. I just dont think we setup right, and I think he shouldve calmed the guys down

 

Im not turning on anyone, I was trying to vent in a constructive manner, which is why I was ending the posts with the positives and bigger picture.

 

 

 

 

Good job we are able to judge Martinez after half a season and not just when we have lost an emotive game then eh Matt.

 

Sticking to the principles doesn't mean Martinez was right to play a high line against fast forwards with slower defenders - sticking to our principles seen us still pass the ball around, make space and try and create opportunites rather than sit deep and hit it long... at 4-0 the players would have been forgiven to sit behind the ball and keep it tight. We never did. As soon as I seen Pienaar last night I knew we were doomed, there was no cohesion between him and the ineffective Baines, his touch was awful as was Barry's.

 

I said all along that we may see the odd tonking under Martinez but we will see some games where we can be really proud, I think its fair to say that has been the case.

 

Lets not get our knickers in a twist over naismith coming on before McGeady - he hasn't played in months and is carrying a bit of timber, so you would put him on in a 100mph game?

 

Write it off, bad day at the office. Maybe you want to review the 5-6-7 goal tonkings under Moyes against Arsenal and see if you think his damage limitation, deep defence would have worked?

 

Basically Liverpool were very good last night.

knew you'd bite!

 

Im not judging his overall performance Haf, Im saying he got it wrong in this game. Passing around was dangerous for us last night because 2-3 of our key distributors of the ball seemed to be colourblind, and that was clear from very early on. I think thats the only real tonking we've had so far, right? So Id agree with you there too. But just because its a one off doesnt mean I wont put the blame where I think it lies.

 

I can handle a tonking if we play well, but we didnt play well. I dont care that we had twice as many passes, more possession, more corners or nearly as many shots - it counted for nothing because we did sod all with it, apart from gift them 4 goals like it was a belated Christmas present.

 

McGeady made a decent impact, more so than Naismith, who wasnt bad (he put in his shift) and yes, I think he wouldve been more useful. Mirallas was working hard in their half but I never saw him covering Stones when they broke. McGeady may well have done that, giving better protection and potentially providing more cover if a counter came (we will never know) and Mirallas being the focal point in attack wouldve meant we couldve attacked through the centre (using Barkley more, if he was up to it is a different question) and pressured them better.

 

I have written it off as a bad day in the office, and that Liverpool were the better team with the better tactics executed better than we executed ours. Maybe it was more down to 2-3 players and individual errors, or maybe its a combination of both...

[Matt]

Matt - not writing Stones off he's a good player but last night proved he is not the sort of Right back we need as cover. The team plays with attacking full backs and without Coleman or someone a like we are hindered. I thought he got into attacking positions well but was fruitless there once he received the ball. Couldn't get a cross in or beat his man. He's a centre back and was a major contributor to the second goal.

fair enough, but 1 game where he is supposed to be covering Suarez and then saying he isnt the RB we need is still harsh in my opinion.

 

Dont get me wrong, hes definitely better suited to the DC role but he can defend well in the RB role too. Not the same type of RB as Coleman, but at 19 with 5 games under his belt, Im happy with him to keep covering until Coleman comes back.