Phil Jagielka

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

3rd choice he would be fine, but club captain is beyond a joke.

As soon as we sign 2 CB's that are better defenders than him insure he will be

[pete0]

As soon as we sign 2 CB's that are better defenders than him insure he will be

We've already got two, and I'd give youngsters a chance ahead of him depending on the opposition.

After getting to watch Dave Watson and then Weir at the back to now having Jagielka as the main Cb is frustrating and should have been addressed. Similar to Howard in goal, we accepted the competent rather than push for excellent.

[Hafnia]

We've already got two, and I'd give youngsters a chance ahead of him depending on the opposition.

After getting to watch Dave Watson and then Weir at the back to now having Jagielka as the main Cb is frustrating and should have been addressed. Similar to Howard in goal, we accepted the competent rather than push for excellent.

 

I think you are allowing yourself to get carried away in your criticism of Jagielka.

 

Stones defends like there is a 12 year old kid controlling him on Fifa 16 who thinks it will be a good laugh to try and take on the opposition from his own area. Stones falls asleep, Stones ball watches, Stones thinks that looking good on the ball is being a defender. Stones is like the English David Luiz - he is nowhere near as good as what his football talent makes him out to be.

 

Mori has the potential to be one of the best in Europe - for me he has been a great signing but he needs the experience of Jags next to him and is prone to the odd stinker.

 

Jags - whether you like it or not is our most steady defender.

[StevO]

I really don't see how anyone cant rate him as our best. Ok, I'd like him to be a bit more vocal and aggressive on the pitch, but for me hes head and shoulders above Mori and Stones. They both have the potential to far pass him by, but they'll have to work hard to do it.

[MC11]

On this occasion I think it's more about wanting to kick on. He may have been good enough over the years but he's never be a collosus, as I say he's a second tier centre back below the elite.

[StevO]

I agree hes below the elite, but then most of our players are. With a decent manager who sees the importance of a solid defence Stones and Mori could end up in the elite bracket.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

I think you are allowing yourself to get carried away in your criticism of Jagielka.

 

Stones defends like there is a 12 year old kid controlling him on Fifa 16 who thinks it will be a good laugh to try and take on the opposition from his own area. Stones falls asleep, Stones ball watches, Stones thinks that looking good on the ball is being a defender. Stones is like the English David Luiz - he is nowhere near as good as what his football talent makes him out to be.

 

Mori has the potential to be one of the best in Europe - for me he has been a great signing but he needs the experience of Jags next to him and is prone to the odd stinker.

 

Jags - whether you like it or not is our most steady defender.

Nail , head ,hit!

[barryj]

 

I think you are allowing yourself to get carried away in your criticism of Jagielka.

 

Stones defends like there is a 12 year old kid controlling him on Fifa 16 who thinks it will be a good laugh to try and take on the opposition from his own area. Stones falls asleep, Stones ball watches, Stones thinks that looking good on the ball is being a defender. Stones is like the English David Luiz - he is nowhere near as good as what his football talent makes him out to be.

 

Mori has the potential to be one of the best in Europe - for me he has been a great signing but he needs the experience of Jags next to him and is prone to the odd stinker.

 

Jags - whether you like it or not is our most steady defender.

I'm most confident of a clean sheet when I see Jags name on the team sheet. Gut feeling, but I'm sure someone will pull up stats to prove me wrong ?

[StevO]

I don't fancy Mori and Stones at the back against Zaha, Bolasie and Cabaye.

[pete0]

I'm most confident of a clean sheet when I see Jags name on the team sheet. Gut feeling, but I'm sure someone will pull up stats to prove me wrong ?

Last time I checked we conceded slightly less with him, but got more points without him. For me Mori is the best of the three for us, he's got everything you look for in a defender. Stones lacks experience, but isn't helped by the team being static when he's looking for a pass. Jags doesn't cover his partner and his positioning is awful. Distin was the stronger of the two, as was Lescott, Yobo, and Weir. I'd say he's better than Stubbs, but Stubbs made up for it in effort.

Jags had benefitted massively from the lack of English talent at the back since Sol Campbell's generation. If he opted for Poland I doubt we'd have even signed him.

[MikeO]

Last time I checked we conceded slightly less with him, but got more points without him. For me Mori is the best of the three for us, he's got everything you look for in a defender. Stones lacks experience, but isn't helped by the team being static when he's looking for a pass. Jags doesn't cover his partner and his positioning is awful. Distin was the stronger of the two, as was Lescott, Yobo, and Weir. I'd say he's better than Stubbs, but Stubbs made up for it in effort.

Jags had benefitted massively from the lack of English talent at the back since Sol Campbell's generation. If he opted for Poland I doubt we'd have even signed him.

 

I think that's an extremely harsh assessment myself.

[pete0]

 

I think that's an extremely harsh assessment myself.

It may be harsh, but he's had far too easy career at Everton. He's undeserving of the shirt for me.

[MikeO]

It may be harsh, but he's had far too easy career at Everton. He's undeserving of the shirt for me.

 

Even harsher, but you're entitled to your opinion .

[Hafnia]

Did I just see the words yobo and stronger?

[pete0]

Did I just see the words yobo and stronger?

Yobo and Lescott were a much stronger partnership. I remember already having this argument, I think MikeO put the stats up that support it. Jags makes more mistakes, but only Yobo's were ridiculed same as Stones and Mori at the moment. Look at all the own goals Jags scores and no one bats an eye lid.

[Hafnia]

Yobo and Lescott were a much stronger partnership. I remember already having this argument, I think MikeO put the stats up that support it. Jags makes more mistakes, but only Yobo's were ridiculed same as Stones and Mori at the moment. Look at all the own goals Jags scores and no one bats an eye lid.

 

sorry Pete, I just can't accept this stance you have on Jags. It just isn't even logical... you don't like him or whatever, fine, but stop looking for comparisons to absolute dross like Yobo... he played liked a tranquilzed giraffe

[Btay]

I was always sort of glad city took lescott and not Jags. He's been a great servant for the club, especially at 4mil. I l know it's been a tough year but this is getting ridiculous.

[CraccerC]

Mori gets the abuse as well though. Seems untouchable.

 

Really? I don't read this as much as NSNO, but generally I'd say Mori gets quite a lot of prize and is quite well liked. I think the opposite, I think his mistakes are often overlooked.

 

Fair point re: Jags though. This is the importance of a good pairing, he and distin complemented each other perfectly...we don't have that any more.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

Really? I don't read this as much as NSNO, but generally I'd say Mori gets quite a lot of prize and is quite well liked. I think the opposite, I think his mistakes are often overlooked.

 

Fair point re: Jags though. This is the importance of a good pairing, he and distin complemented each other perfectly...we don't have that any more.

This for me

 

Don't get me wrong I like Mori and he has the potential to go far but he is every bit as likely as Stones to make a mistake at the moment and was dire against Arsenal and West Ham before he was dropped

 

But he gets a free pass because he is a new boy

 

Jags is by far the safest option of the 3 but it's typical of some fans to build a player up just so they can knock him down. He was awful when he came back from the World Cup but I think he has got his game back on track now and has been decent

 

Granted he is not in the elite bracket as MC says but which of our players are?

[pete0]

This for me

 

Don't get me wrong I like Mori and he has the potential to go far but he is every bit as likely as Stones to make a mistake at the moment and was dire against Arsenal and West Ham before he was dropped

 

But he gets a free pass because he is a new boy

 

Jags is by far the safest option of the 3 but it's typical of some fans to build a player up just so they can knock him down. He was awful when he came back from the World Cup but I think he has got his game back on track now and has been decent

 

 

Im not saying elite, they could end up there, but they're better than Jags. I'd happily see Mori captain ahead of Jags.

 

Point is Jagielka isn't safe. Top 8 in the league for mistakes in the article you posted. Yet, you'd think he was a solid defender from word of mouth.

[pete0]

 

Really? I don't read this as much as NSNO, but generally I'd say Mori gets quite a lot of prize and is quite well liked. I think the opposite, I think his mistakes are often overlooked.

 

Fair point re: Jags though. This is the importance of a good pairing, he and distin complemented each other perfectly...we don't have that any more.

He's liked, but whenever he is caught out it is highlighted and there is blame on him. Jagielka cocks up and everyone just accepts it. The goal we concede are so weak it's a bad joke from Moyes announcing him as next season's captain giving our next manager a dilemma. Doubt he'd have given him the armband if he had stayed on as manager.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Im not saying elite, they could end up there, but they're better than Jags. I'd happily see Mori captain ahead of Jags.

 

Point is Jagielka isn't safe. Top 8 in the league for mistakes in the article you posted. Yet, you'd think he was a solid defender from word of mouth.

I would be extremely surprised if Jags mistakes per minute was higher than Mori and let's face it after you slating Jags for the goals I the Arsenal game it's clear you have an agenda and aren't thinking straight

[pete0]

I would be extremely surprised if Jags mistakes per minute was higher than Mori and let's face it after you slating Jags for the goals I the Arsenal game it's clear you have an agenda and aren't thinking straight

He's played the same amount of minutes. I don't know whether Mori is in there, that article only named Jagielka and Stones.

That goal is an example of him not being good enough and the fans only laying the blame away from him.

[Matt]

Pete, I've questioned his captaincy before a few times but I would never say he's a bad defender. He's been a very good player for us, and one of the reasons Distin, Yobo, Johnny, Lescott and Stones have thrived. He mops up the mistakes, whilst for sure making his own, but I can't understand your critique of him.

[pete0]

Pete, I've questioned his captaincy before a few times but I would never say he's a bad defender. He's been a very good player for us, and one of the reasons Distin, Yobo, Johnny, Lescott and Stones have thrived. He mops up the mistakes, whilst for sure making his own, but I can't understand your critique of him.

One of his biggest problems is the lack of cover he provides. Distin was left for dead so many times I lost count. He shys away from the responsibility, and won't risk getting the blame for his partners error or picking up a yellow. If you look at most of his last ditch takles their from his own errors. It's shocking how few yellows he's picked up as well.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

One of his biggest problems is the lack of cover he provides. Distin was left for dead so many times I lost count. He shys away from the responsibility, and won't risk getting the blame for his partners error or picking up a yellow. If you look at most of his last ditch takles their from his own errors. It's shocking how few yellows he's picked up as well.

It's all in your head Pete

[Hafnia]

Lets get things into perspective on this - over the last few weeks of diabolical performances only Jagielka and Coleman have given any semblance of being players who have any pride and desire to play for Everton. Why are we talking about one of the players who has shown some guts?

 

Before anyone pipes up, Lets forget the manager here, we could have a hybrid of Christian Gross and Mike Walker managing us who that fans hate and the players despise - I expect an Everton player to look at the fans and play for them.

 

I don't know what been worse - watching Ross Barkley a lad who has come through the ranks playing like he's at a testimonial or Lukaku "the beast" our £75k a week £28m transfer seeking sulk pretending that he's putting in a shift, telling fans who travelled 250 miles to get behind the team... oh the irony.

 

Either way in one short shrift against Man United Jagielka told the pair of them exactly what he thought of them - from Jagielka that is like Roy Keane grabbing David Beckham by the throat and slapping him for not tracking back.

 

I just don't get the criticism of a good honest, solid defender when there is so much more wrong with the team right now.

[Lowensda]

Barkley. As an Evertonian, he should feel something for the club and be the one to stand on the shoulders of giants and be pulling up all these "foreign cnuts" to his level. He SHOULD be our center piece, the 'Diamond' in the crown, the local lad with a heart of fire.

 

He should be captain. But with him currently looking like a walking wet lettuce, doesn't even deserve a start.

 

Sort it the fuck out Ross.

 

Oh and Jags is a good 7/10.

[Hafnia]

Barkley. As an Evertonian, he should feel something for the club and be the one to stand on the shoulders of giants and be pulling up all these "foreign cnuts" to his level. He SHOULD be our center piece, the 'Diamond' in the crown, the local lad with a heart of fire.

 

He should be captain. But with him currently looking like a walking wet lettuce, doesn't even deserve a start.

 

Sort it the fuck out Ross.

 

Oh and Jags is a good 7/10.

 

For me this is why I would sell Ross for £50m.

 

Is he worth that much? His talent is worth more, his inconsistency and lack of brains means that for £50m a team could get their hands on a very good player who could win games on his own.

 

I would feel far more comfortable selling Lukaku for £50m than I would with Ross. For me I see Lukaku playing in Turkey within 5 years - seriously I do. He will go to a club at a price where his sporadic attitude will see him managed in a way that he is not accustomed to.

 

Everton to lukaku is like primary school, he gets away with a lot more than he should, secondary school beckons for the lad and I do not think he will handle his homework, the cane, detention, and his head being flushed down the bog. The change in expectation will cripple him, his mentality isn't strong enough and he lacks the fight.

 

Back to jags, one day people will look at him like a Mick Lyons. A good honest pro, who could read the game and put his body on the line. Nothing wrong with that - he will be far more fondly remembered than a joey yobo or materazzi or stones for that matter if he was to leave now.

[Matt]

Why are you bitching and moaning about Lukaku in the Jags thread?! There just no link between the discussion we were having and Rom!