Hafnia Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 How much cash do we win for lifting the League Cup? 100K. How does that compare with placing one position higher in the league? For finishing 6th instead of 7th, for example, over 2m. Even the difference between 19th and 20th is more than 5x the League Cup prize. How much cash do we get from signing up to a shitty kit bag deal vs a.n other? Do you honestly think the league cup is going to cost us 9 points or something? Even if it did that's a few places and we actually have a chance of winning a trophy. Once upon a time getting to Wembley and winning a cup was a big thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 How much cash do we get from signing up to a shitty kit bag deal vs a.n other? Do you honestly think the league cup is going to cost us 9 points or something? Even if it did that's a few places and we actually have a chance of winning a trophy. Once upon a time getting to Wembley and winning a cup was a big thing. Never the League Cup - honestly. FA Cup - yes. "A few places" is several millions pounds. This is why few of the big clubs really bother with the League Cup. The poor marketing deals are irrelevant. They must be addressed separately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 How much cash do we get from signing up to a shitty kit bag deal vs a.n other? Do you honestly think the league cup is going to cost us 9 points or something? Even if it did that's a few places and we actually have a chance of winning a trophy. Once upon a time getting to Wembley and winning a cup was a big thing. Thank you spot on. Steve winning a cup isn't about money, it's about prestige. Money in the prem is irrelevant. We get 80-100m for tv revenue. 2m here or there won't do much. But a trophy will to the players fan base and neutral fans worldwide. They take notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Thank you spot on. Steve winning a cup isn't about money, it's about prestige. Money in the prem is irrelevant. We get 80-100m for tv revenue. 2m here or there won't do much. But a trophy will to the players fan base and neutral fans worldwide. They take notice. It's one, if not two, new players. And try telling the clubs accountant that a couple of million here or there means nothing. The bottom line is that the League Cup has always been an anomaly. Very few big clubs take it seriously (just look at the supposed upsets that happen all the time) because it carries virtually no prize money and no prestige. As long as I can remember, no one's quite sure why it exists. If buys you a place in the early rounds of the UEFA, that's all. The FA Cup, on the other hand, is prestigious. Teams really try to win the FA Cup, and it's a big deal when you win. I know I'm belaboring the point, but I see the League Cup as more of a drag than the UEFA has become. It drains energy out of players for no good reason, which is why Prem teams tend to field a reserve side and get knocked out early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith B Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 I think we are close enough to the winning the thing that it makes sense to go for it. I don't think RM has handled it poorly--he's played a mix of starters and reserves and brought on starters as subs. I think that's a sensible approach. In general the League Cup is only important to those that win it--the rest of the sides will say, "it's only the League Cup." But again, we are close enough to the final now to go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 It's one, if not two, new players. And try telling the clubs accountant that a couple of million here or there means nothing. The bottom line is that the League Cup has always been an anomaly. Very few big clubs take it seriously (just look at the supposed upsets that happen all the time) because it carries virtually no prize money and no prestige. As long as I can remember, no one's quite sure why it exists. If buys you a place in the early rounds of the UEFA, that's all. The FA Cup, on the other hand, is prestigious. Teams really try to win the FA Cup, and it's a big deal when you win. I know I'm belaboring the point, but I see the League Cup as more of a drag than the UEFA has become. It drains energy out of players for no good reason, which is why Prem teams tend to field a reserve side and get knocked out early. Fair enough Steve agree to disagree. I understand your side of the argument and respect that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Fair enough Steve agree to disagree. I understand your side of the argument and respect that. Likewise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 I just want to win, all the time. That's all. nyblue23 and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 I remember the League Cup starting - it was called the 'Milk Cup'. True. Not sure, but I think Birmingham City were the first winners. So it doesn't have a particularly prestigious history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 I remember the League Cup starting - it was called the 'Milk Cup'. True. Not sure, but I think Birmingham City were the first winners. So it doesn't have a particularly prestigious history. Memory playing tricks John, it started in 1960 and Villa were the first winners; didn't become sponsored (the Milk Cup) until 1982. Most memorable final for me was Swindon beating Arsenal in 1969! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elston Gunnn Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 With respect to the debate re the importance or irrelevance of the Capital One Cup, for me the practical issue pivots on exactly where it comes in the schedule. Sat Nov 28 @ Bournemouth Tues Dec 1 @ Middlesbrough Mon Dec 7 Crystal Palace There's no problem playing the strongest squad on both Dec 1 and 7; there's sufficient rest/recovery time between those two matches. But presumably there's some question of whether RM could play his strongest group on both Nov 28 and Dec 1, especially given the extra factor of away travel. So, is it likely that Roberto will in fact be forced to prioritize one match over the other (EPL or Cup)? Or, if the squad is recovered from injuries (except Jagielka), does Roberto have enough quality (and "match fitness") that he can field 2 essentially different, but still strong, lineups between an away Sat and an away Tues match? If the answer to this quality-and-match-fitness question is "yes," then the only issue is how to mix-and-match for each contest. If "no," then the issue is whether Roberto "must" either play his very best 6-7 players in both matches or prioritize one match over the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 Memory playing tricks John, it started in 1960 and Villa were the first winners; didn't become sponsored (the Milk Cup) until 1982. Most memorable final for me was Swindon beating Arsenal in 1969! Be fair, Mike, I was only a few miles out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 My point is that position in the league table must always be #1. Yes, it would be nice to win the League Cup, but not if it costs us in the league. Why would it cost us in the league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Why would it cost us in the league? Why did playing in the Europa cost us in the league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacs Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Why did playing in the Europa cost us in the league? Big difference between a full Europa campaign and the four games we're talking about to win the league cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Why did playing in the Europa cost us in the league? It didn't we were shite all season I don't remember Adrian Heaths equaliser against Oxford at this stage of this competition in January 1984 exactly causing irreparable damage to the club Winning is a great habit to have and they say that the first trophy is always the hardest to get your hands on so why would you not want to take this competition seriously ? Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 I'm desperate to win this markjazzbassist and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcirony Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) I don't see any reason why we shouldn't go all out to win this cup, once upon a time the common belief was that a good cup run could lead to good results in the league. Nowadays everyone seems to think it's exhausting for clubs. Nonsense, we aren't playing European football so we are playing 10-15 games less than last year. I think the whole squad rotation system for cups was brought about by teams like Arsenal and United back in the day who had a lot of fixtures and were competing on multiple fronts. For us this simply isn't the case at the moment so there is absolutely no reason why we should be resting players with Bournemouth in mind. What's the point in finishing one place higher, which I'm our case might just sneak us into Europe, when we could win a trophy and get into Europe at the same time? No brainer for me. On a non-footballing note, I think winning a trophy might also make us more appealing to potential investors and players. Edited November 2, 2015 by MatthewT Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 What's the point in finishing one place higher, which I'm our case might just sneak us into Europe, when we could win a trophy and get into Europe at the same time? No brainer for me. Because we gain about 2m. Plus, we're not forced to play in the early stages of the Europa against teams in Kazakstan and the Faroes. On a non-footballing note, I think winning a trophy might also make us more appealing to potential investors and players. Come join our team. We just won the cup that Bradford City almost won! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcirony Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 But as someone quite rightly pointed out earlier, when you are banking 80-100 million per season in TV money, 2-3 million doesn't make much difference. If you'd rather our incompetent financial department havr some extra money, than us win a trophy for the first time in 20 years then frankly you are crackers!!!! In response to your second comment... How about "come join our club, we are incapable of winning anything, ever!!" I know which I'd prefer. Romey 1878 and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elston Gunnn Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 If you'd rather our incompetent financial department havr some extra money, than us win a trophy for the first time in 20 years then frankly you are crackers!!!! I don't think any Everton fan opposes winning the Capital One Cup. Surely every single Everton fan would like to win it, even the numerous crack(er)-afflicted TT-ers. The issue is whether to "prioritize" it over fielding our strongest starting lineup for EPL matches. This seems to reduce to a single concrete question: should Roberto or should he not field his strongest starting lineup for both Bournemouth and Middlesbrough? So when you say -- .... there is absolutely no reason why we should be resting players with Bournemouth in mind. -- do I interpret this to mean you think Roberto should field whatever he thinks is his strongest group for both Bournemouth and Middlesbrough, with minimal or no changes? So that the specific schedule here -- both away, very little rest/recovery between -- is really a non-factor for match-fit young men? Or do you mean, since winning this Cup is a no brainer, Roberto would be wise to give some -- some -- of the lads a rest at Bournemouth, so he'll have a mostly rested squad for Middlesbrough? I'm not trying to start (or continue) a pissing contest here. Rather, Everton having survived to the quarter-finals of the Cup, Roberto will in fact have to decide how much, if any, lineup juggling will give the club its best chance of advancing both to the Cup semi-finals and up the table. He's depending on TT for advice. Mine is: we have squad quality-depth, so use it between the matches of November 28 and December 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcirony Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) I mean that I'd rather play a (very) slightly weakened side against Bournemouth, than against Middlesborough, which should be our priority that week. Edited November 2, 2015 by MatthewT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 The issue is whether to "prioritize" it over fielding our strongest starting lineup for EPL matches. Thank you. Exactly this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Mine is: we have squad quality-depth, so use it between the matches of November 28 and December 1. This is the other big point: Other members of the squad need to be involved to keep their sharpness and to prove their worth. The League Cup is excellent for that - as are early rounds of the Europa. What's the point having a squad if they never get to play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 2, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 We need to win a trophy , this is the ideal opportunity to land one. I really don't see how it is debatable Deacs, Blue 250, Romey 1878 and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rusty747 Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 If we haven't got the strength in depth to win both games comfortably then something is badly wrong. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 14, 2015 Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 https://daviddownie17.wordpress.com/ 100% agree with him on this. The only change to the team should be Robles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacs Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 https://daviddownie17.wordpress.com/ 100% agree with him on this. The only change to the team should be Robles And not just for the cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 How about we try for once act like we should do and play our best team? I've never heard so much shite in my life. We are Everton! We are in a quarter final and we need to win it. I want, no I need a final, a big day to sit with my son and watch us win something. I don't give a fuck if that means we struggle between 8th and 6th. I want a big day and I want a trophy duncanmckenzieismagic and Gwlad 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 How about we try for once act like we should do and play our best team? I've never heard so much shite in my life. We are Everton! We are in a quarter final and we need to win it. I want, no I need a final, a big day to sit with my son and watch us win something. I don't give a fuck if that means we struggle between 8th and 6th. I want a big day and I want a trophy If you just want a trophy, I'll spend 50 bucks and buy you one. There are trophies and then there are trophies - meaningful, worthwhile trophies. This trophy wins us a pittance financially. There's a reason why Bradford beat Chelsea 4-0 and Wednesday beat Arsenal 3-0. They would prefer to lose because the cost of dropping one place in the league is more than 10x the prize money of this trophy. Honestly, I still don't get why everyone's so hung up about this. The big teams laugh at this trophy, and they play their reserves. Sure, we can go all out to win, but not if it costs us one or two positions in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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