markjazzbassist Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Matt said: But do you know what else they own? The portfolio covers so much I’m sure you’re giving them money without knowing! i do, and i don't give em my money. i despise them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 20 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: i do, and i don't give em my money. i despise them. All 124 companies! That’s impressive mate i understand the reasoning but honestly if it’s the workers treatment in particular, you’d boycott 90% of all e-commerce, logistics, farming, supermarkets even gaming and music production etc. Its a great sentiment to have and I used to share it, but if you boycott one you should boycott all everywhere is my reasoning, and until I have my own self-sufficient farm, it’s not feasible, so I minimize rather than outright boycott these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 32 minutes ago, RPG said: One of the many downsides of globalism, unfortunately. Terrible way to treat people but they do because they can. One of the downsides of consumerism MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 15 minutes ago, Matt said: All 124 companies! That’s impressive mate i understand the reasoning but honestly if it’s the workers treatment in particular, you’d boycott 90% of all e-commerce, logistics, farming, supermarkets even gaming and music production etc. Its a great sentiment to have and I used to share it, but if you boycott one you should boycott all everywhere is my reasoning, and until I have my own self-sufficient farm, it’s not feasible, so I minimize rather than outright boycott these days. most of their business is in tech, i don't buy tech stuff we have a 15 year old tv from my parents, i buy clothes from thrift stores to not support the fast fashion industry, i use the computer my work gave me for free. amazon and whole food would be the only 2 i would use and i refuse to. we are part of a CSA, Community supported agriculture. we pay farmers ahead of the season for our food, it's delivered weekly regardless of how their season was (they are guaranteed their money, we are not guaranteed the food but we have never had an issue even now with covid). the farms and workers are located hours from me (i'm in ohio), fresh butter, fresh organic meat raised in pastures in ohio, wonderful vegetables and fruits. in the winter root vegetables, canned fruit from the summer, eggs, butter, and yes more meat (just got a whole chicken we will roast this evening). so yeah i'm good on the farming and don't need a self sufficient farm. i told you i was a hippie matt u should realize that by now. Matt and pete0 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: most of their business is in tech, i don't buy tech stuff we have a 15 year old tv from my parents, i buy clothes from thrift stores to not support the fast fashion industry, i use the computer my work gave me for free. amazon and whole food would be the only 2 i would use and i refuse to. we are part of a CSA, Community supported agriculture. we pay farmers ahead of the season for our food, it's delivered weekly regardless of how their season was (they are guaranteed their money, we are not guaranteed the food but we have never had an issue even now with covid). the farms and workers are located hours from me (i'm in ohio), fresh butter, fresh organic meat raised in pastures in ohio, wonderful vegetables and fruits. in the winter root vegetables, canned fruit from the summer, eggs, butter, and yes more meat (just got a whole chicken we will roast this evening). so yeah i'm good on the farming and don't need a self sufficient farm. i told you i was a hippie matt u should realize that by now. I always knew it mate, and respect it greatly, but didn’t realize how “easy” it was for you to do it. We buy from the local farmers whenever we can, but it’s very seasonal and even more expensive. there’s very very little here that allows the hippie life unless you’re single and unemployed (I.e have the time and some money to make the required effort) good on ya though mate markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, RPG said: A smaller company wouldn't get away with it. Define smaller company. If you’re talking 10’s of employees they tend to buy into the dream of the company so make the extra effort voluntarily. My point of consumerism is the supply for demand, and the consumers are the root cause Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 hour ago, RPG said: I certainly agree with you re Branson. He is one thing in public and quite another when it comes to business. I have been pleasantly surprised at how quickly the planet is recovering from human inflicted damage too - pollution down in China, dolphins seen in previously polluted waters in Venice etc. Environment is very important and that is being reflected in advances in the aviation industry. Electric/Pure Solar powered flight, bio fuels etc, even hydrogen where the waste product is water, but there is a way to go yet. The beginning of the increase in damage to the environment from the aviation industry coincided directly with the deregulation of the industry and the subsequent rise of all the low cost carriers which allowed everyone to fly. I would be very happy to see many of the low cost carriers fail but that would mean vast increases in ticket prices for the remaining airlines. But, as you say, the environment should come first. Do you see a time soon when we will be flying in Electric/ Solar powered airplanes, I also saw on the news earlier today an interview with a scientist in the Antarctic saying how much things are starting to recover there in such a short space of time, this could be the only positive to come out of the Coronavirus, proof that we can start to heal the environment before its to late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 22 hours ago, Palfy said: What even is a British company now if anything other than in name Keep jogging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 15 minutes ago, RPG said: I don't think pure solar power is viable for obvious reasons. The batteries necessary to store solar power for use at night, polar ops, etc are still prohibitively heavy and under powered. I think pure electric powered flight might become viable for very small passenger planes but the power to weight ratios currently being achieved mean that we have a lot of development work to get through before it becomes remotely viable for larger passenger aircraft. There are also other issues of course; speed, range, altitude capability, reliability, certification, passenger confidence, price of tickets to name just a few. The component parts for the batteries (probably lithium) have ethical issues themselves regarding mining of the materials necessary for their production. I think we are stuck with fossil fuelled jet engines for quite a while yet. That is probably why so much development $ is being directed to making them quieter and more fuel efficient. It is also why the extra wide body twin engine aircraft is being bought by airlines in preference to the more fuel thirsty (but safer) 4 engined aircraft. I don’t think it’ll be as long as a lot of people think. Impulse 2 made massive headway in the development but agree it’s probably 30+ years before we see jumbos. Depends what you mean by a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 I’ve always wondered if sooner rather than later we could power planes using nuclear power, but obviously in a way that if a plane crashed the radio active material would be placed in a unbreakable container, or is that just to far fetched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 14 minutes ago, Palfy said: I’ve always wondered if sooner rather than later we could power planes using nuclear power, but obviously in a way that if a plane crashed the radio active material would be placed in a unbreakable container, or is that just to far fetched. Not a chance. At least with subs it’s mostly contained in the water, but planes will never ever be nuclear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 7 hours ago, RPG said: Having clicked on the link I read that as CineWorld are reviewing the situation in light of the government compensation scheme. What's the relevance? They discarded their staff at the first sign of a crisis which highlights two issues, one the company is ran by scum and two the government failed to act fast enough to put safeguards in place. 6 hours ago, RPG said: One of the many downsides of globalism, unfortunately. Terrible way to treat people but they do because they can. Because the government, and the idiots who voted them in, let them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 29 minutes ago, RPG said: Not at al Pete. No system or government is perfect but I would far rather have BoJo running the country than Corbyn or any of his replacements. Enough people think that way to have given BoJo an 80+ seat majority and inflict Labour's worst GE result in 80+ years. Many of the people you are calling idiots were lifelong Labour voters until they finally had enough of Corbyn and voted Tory. On what basis is bj doing better than what corbyn would have? Would corbyn have let companies lay staff off or would he have acted faster? Talking of acting faster would he have gave wishy washy advice? Would be have acted sooner and put the people first and had the lock down sooner? Would people be doing unnecessary work? Would the NHS have had more beds under corbyn? Would the NHS have had more ventilators in preparation? What exactly has bj done that would help more than what Corbyn would have done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, RPG said: Corbyn is a ditherer of the highest order. He's been a head of this government every step, he's been the one pressing for faster and more necessary action. Corbyn would make all the right noises but do way too little, way too late in a disorganised manner. Just look at his GE19 election campaign for proof of his disorganisation and inability to lead. He can't even lead the Labour party effectively. He would be a disaster in No.10. So, yes, Corbyn would have let companies lay staff off and then seen strikes further disrupt his disorganised fight against Covid-19. So Labour backed by the unions would not protect workers. Corbyn the one asking for rents and mortgages to be suspended. Same guy who would have had bills nationalised and frozen too. BoJo has acted sensibly and followed the advice of his apolitical experts every step of the way. Corbyn would just have done what he thought was politically expedient. And Corbyn would have faced exactly the same logistical issues that BoJo has faced and dealt with. He chose the company over people route. He would have had the Korean advice but chose to go the other way. He misinfomed and misled the public on how serious the matter was. Washing his hands got 20 seconds won't wash away the murder on them. Unnecessary work? That is a non question. Its a subjective term. Not at all, how is a matalan warehouse worker essential at the moment? NHS more beds under Corbyn? No. Probably more under BoJo with the rapid building of Nightingale and other temporary hospitals. This one is not even debatable, the tory government has managed a decline of the NHS. Labour would have heavily invested in the NHS as the tories have decemated it. NHS more ventilators under Corbyn? No. Corbyn couldn'y liaise with the private sector anywhere near as effectively as BoJo to produce them. We have Dyson, Mercedes, JCB etc all producing high quality kit for NHS in very short time. He missed the EU program as they "forgot" to email a response. Also instructed one business not to bother making them. More and more of the electorate have seen through Corbyn, momentum and the Labour party. The number of former lifelong Labour voters who voted Tory in GE19 will be the death knell for Labour unless the party and its supporters give up on the extreme left wing rhetoric which, to date, continues to make it totally unelectable. Fact is Liverpool are the least media brainwashed in the country and are the heaviest Corbyn backers. Very much shows tories are brainwashed idiots at best, let's be honest their policies are evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 9 minutes ago, RPG said: Corbyn hasn't even been ahead of the PLP. He needs to learn how to lead the Labour Party before he even thinks about No.10. Too late now of course. Any no mark can snipe from the sidelines. Its very different when you are actually bearing the responsibility. Corbyn is ahead of nothing and nobody. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thecanary.co/trending/2020/03/15/corbyns-coronavirus-response-just-shamed-the-tories/amp/ Its very easy to stand up in Parliament and make lots of left wing noises. He has no substance. Other than consistently being on the right side of history. https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2018/10/18/anyone-who-doesnt-read-this-historic-endorsement-of-jeremy-corbyn-is-missing-out-2/ BoJo did no such thing. He took the advice of apolitical experts and followed it. He made the decision. He could have chose the less deaths route but he picked the one that least affected his backers, the corporation's. That alone is treason. He's not fit to govern. There are many gray areas when defining essential. We don't live in a nanny state, and there is such a thing as personal responsibility. Can you show me specific evidence where govt has stated that matalan is essential? And if they have, please also give their reasons. They allowed online operations to continue. They have them a memo to do so. They included travel to and from work as essential travel, they only closed retail shops open to the public. GE19 was 4 months ago. Labour would have the same starting point v Covid-19 that BoJo had. So it's took our government 3 and a half months to start isolation, after weeks of wishy washy advice... Any government would have acted sooner. More so with Italy being an example of what happens if you don't. BoJo has got a rapid response from British based companies to provide kit to NHS and still has the option of EU support throughout the transition period if we want it. He did get a rapid response, however he has dithered in them to go through with it. I'll make this as simple as possible. If the NHS better off under labour or the tories? You might want to think a little harder about your last para. You have basically inferred that Liverpool is the only city in UK that is not brainwashed. Do you not think that, actually, the laws of probability and statistics show that it might well be the other way around? You are very much in the minority and, whilst I admire your spirit, blind loyalty and faith, you are still very much in the minority and shrinking all the time. How many more GE's has Labour to lose before you start questioning the extreme left wing approach? It will never get you elected and if you are not in government you will never have an effective voice. The tories are right wing media controlling litlle hitlers. No doubt what side you would have picked had you been born in Munich. Like I said in my previous post, I am genuinely sad about that as UK needs a credible opposition and there isn't one. Just shows how easily you and the many are to be controlled by the media Palfy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=518278529084415&id=100027068180900&set=a.119944412251164&source=48 markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 Small point but it annoys the hell out of me that our PM is being called "BoJo". It's infantile whether you support him or not; for those against it's a "clown" name but for anyone supporting him why not give him a bit of respect by not suggesting a big red nose? Palfy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3141829502502237&id=1568578379827365 https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3120870234718668&id=2126073340865034 Palfy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 1 minute ago, RPG said: You need to check your math there. With at least another 4 years (and almost certainly, nine) of power ahead of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson that will be Labour out of power for at least 14 years (almost certainly nineteen plus) and, prior to that it was Labour in name only with Blair and Brown dragging Labour further and further to the right. And it is the Conservative Party that invariably has to set about balancing the books on the rare occasions we have had a left wing Labour government due Labour's propensity for spending money it hasn't got. As Baroness Margaret Hilda Thatcher quite rightly said 'The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money!' You are so arrogant it’s sickening the conservatives are the reason the NHS haven’t got the correct PPE haven’t got the ventilators haven’t been testing to help stop the spread, the reason for thousands who will die unnecessarily. Listen to your hero Piers Morgan the guy you quoted numerous times as all knowing when it came to Brexit, but now I would say you would say he’s wrong and doesn’t no what he’s talking about when he roundly condemns Boris and the Conservative party of there mismanagement of the whole thing. You say we are wrong purely because we vote labour and are left wing, when you let your far right beliefs complete cloud what’s happening, you will follow Boris know matter what he says and know matter how many die that’s just how blinkered you’ve became. You need to start opening your eyes and reevaluating what’s happening in this country, instead of just towing the party line and sticking Boris on a pedestal as some great Churchilllian figure to be proud of. pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 23 minutes ago, RPG said: No Palfy, I don't say that at all. I quoted facts. They are facts that don't go down too well with the good people of Liverpool but they are, nonetheless, facts. The last true socialist government in UK lost power 41 years ago and left its usual legacy of high inflation, high taxation, high interest rates, high unemployment, strikes and riots. Not to mention a cap in hand visit to IMF to stave off bankruptcy. Some 'socialist bailout!' When it comes to opinion, mine (which is just as valid as yours and everyone else's on this board) is that Johnson did the best possible in the circumstances by listening to his apolitical advisors and acting on that advice. Of course I wish that all the kit the NHS needed was on the shelf and ready to go. It wasn't and lessons need to be learned - certainly. My point is that Corbyn would have had exactly the same start point as Johnson and, given Corbyn's demonstrably abject leadership of the Labour Party and his total failure of election campaign (worst Labour GE result for 85 years), it is very hard to see him doing any better than Johnson - and probably a whole lot worse. That isn't arrogance. It is reasoned thinking which doesn't sit well with the left wing bias on this board. I’m not concerned about whether Corbyn would have done a good job or not that argument isn’t relevant to the now, what I’m more concerned about is that fact that you cannot concede that this government has been a shambles in the way it has handled this crisis, regardless of what party was in power I would condemn them for shutting the barn door once the horse has bolted, those countries that reacted early are reaping the rewards of their early intervention, Germany testing 500,000 people a day, us and I say that loosely being as you haven’t lived here for 20 plus years, struggle to test 10,000, yet both countries had the same timetable our government didn’t react, when Germany were buying PPE testing kits ventilators and what was required to fight this, Boris was on TV boasting that he was still going to shake hands with people who had the virus, what an appallingly statement from any PM of any country, and you know what really narks me is you back that to the hilt with he’s doing the best job in the circumstances, the circumstances him and the Tory government created in the last 10 years. We should have everything at this no matter the cost, you can rebuild an economy over time but you cannot bring back thousands of people who have died from lack of effort and spending money. pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 1 hour ago, RPG said: Labour's propensity for spending money it hasn't got. What are the Tories doing now then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 1 minute ago, RPG said: In the global crisis that we now find ourselves they have no choice. All I can say is that we couldn't have criticised Corbyn if he had been in power for doing exactly the same thing. There will be adverse economic consequences but it is a case of the lesser of the 2 evils isn't it. Can I ask you what you think money is and how it is created? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 1 minute ago, RPG said: What you are criticising then, is the expert advice. And, to a degree, I have to agree. But, Johnson did react quickly in getting Mercedes, Dyson, JCB producing high quality kit for NHS in very short order. I haven't seen industry move that quickly since we realised we needed an AAR capability for Hercules and Nimrod in 1982. It was done in days. You can criticise all you like, but I would prefer to support the fight against Covid-19 which the government is steadily starting to win. Thete will always be those who try to score domestic political points in a global emergency, but as you rightly infer, it doesn't matter who is in charge. The important thing is to beat this virus. Can I suggest therefore that we leave the 'Monday morning quarterback' conversations until after we have beaten this virus. That isn’t true about the ventilators he left it far to late they were still in the design stage a week ago from the companies you spoke of , one company Gtech were asked to do a design and gear there production line up which they did do on both accounts, to then be told they didn’t require there services. But the biggest own goal by the Tories came 5 years ago when there was health study on how this country would cope with a flu like pandemic, to cut a long story short the government’s own advisors recommended that the NHS should buy thousands of ventilators, as we were woefully short, the government went against the findings of the study it asked for, against the advice of the professionals it asked to carryout the study all in the name of austerity, the conservatives have starved the NHS of funds and resources over the last decade like no other government in the history of the start of the NHS. As nearly all reporters journalists and people in this country have recognised we are now trying to play catch up, and are struggling because those who acted have bought the resources. pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 36 minutes ago, RPG said: Yes, you can ask but I am not going down that political sidetrack. That a cop out, it's not a political question. It's an important clarification when you are bandying around assertions that your party is spending it wisely and your political rivals are spending it wantonly. If you don't answer any further posts will moot until such time that you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, Palfy said: That isn’t true about the ventilators he left it far to late they were still in the design stage a week ago from the companies you spoke of , one company Gtech were asked to do a design and gear there production line up which they did do on both accounts, to then be told they didn’t require there services. But the biggest own goal by the Tories came 5 years ago when there was health study on how this country would cope with a flu like pandemic, to cut a long story short the government’s own advisors recommended that the NHS should buy thousands of ventilators, as we were woefully short, the government went against the findings of the study it asked for, against the advice of the professionals it asked to carryout the study all in the name of austerity, the conservatives have starved the NHS of funds and resources over the last decade like no other government in the history of the start of the NHS. As nearly all reporters journalists and people in this country have recognised we are now trying to play catch up, and are struggling because those who acted have bought the resources. Mate, you're barking up the wrong tree trying to make this a partisan issue (and so is RPG). The civil service is running the show as best they possibly can and the government are just reporting on what they're doing. (badly) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted April 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 20 hours ago, Matt said: I don’t think it’ll be as long as a lot of people think. Impulse 2 made massive headway in the development but agree it’s probably 30+ years before we see jumbos. Depends what you mean by a while I don't think I will see it in my lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Chach said: Mate, you're barking up the wrong tree trying to make this a partisan issue (and so is RPG). The civil service is running the show as best they possibly can and the government are just reporting on what they're doing. (badly) I do agree that the civil service gives cabinet ministers advice but ultimately that minister has a choice of whether he concurs with that advice or not, even civil servants disagree with each other as well as you know, that minister is in his position to run his department, and all we can do is pray that he has a grasp on what he is doing not just there as a yes man, although many are and some have the metal to stand up for what they believe in even if it means resigning. What you are advocating is people not being able to be held accountable through blame culture, give an MP the opportunity to blame someone else for his decisions and he or she would bite your hands off. And I have just read RPGs post on the civil service and agree largely with what he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 2 hours ago, johnh said: I don't think I will see it in my lifetime. I hope we do, especially if that means 30 years time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 6 hours ago, RPG said: But I did no such thing wrt Covid-19. i said that we couldn't criticise Corbyn either if he had done the same. Public borrowing has to be paid back in one form or another. Labour learned (or rather, didn't learn) that the hard way in the 1970's. The debt has doubled under the Conservative Party yet companies are making more profit than ever. Historically the tories have increased the debt more than any other party. The only people that believe otherwise are sheep that have been brainwashed. You have no excuse though as this has already been highlighted by others on here to you. Just shows how much you've been indoctrinated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 8 hours ago, Chach said: That a cop out, it's not a political question. It's an important clarification when you are bandying around assertions that your party is spending it wisely and your political rivals are spending it wantonly. If you don't answer any further posts will moot until such time that you do. Fair play Chach just seen this no one can accuse you of giving up, your like a dog with a bone which I admire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.