General Election/UK Politics

[johnh]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

So does the conservative government. How many lives before you think it's not okay what they're doing? 

As for blaming China that's very xenophobic to the point you could even be mistaken for quoting Donald Trump. Would you say the same of any other virus? 

Any how your answer to how you can defend Conservatives seems to be it's china's fault... So even if we do blame China for starting it (and we'd lose people because of it). If you look at the rest of the world are reaction has not only caused more deaths it's encouraged them. Look at Japan who are closer to China, has twice our population and a higher proportion who are high risk. So at the very worst I'd expect our loses to be half of theirs, yet we've lost twice as many as them, 4 times the expectated worst case scenario. So if you do truly blame China you'd be blaming them for 7,500 people. That still leaves blood on the hands of every tory for the other 25,000 and counting. 

Speaking of death tolls you've not addressed how the death toll between all the murderers is relevant? 

What is the context in which schoolchildren 50 years from now discuss Boris in relation to Hitler and Mao?  Is it genocide or which single malt they prefer?

[pete0]

1 hour ago, johnh said:

What is the context in which schoolchildren 50 years from now discuss Boris in relation to Hitler and Mao?  Is it genocide or which single malt they prefer?

Don't know what school you went to that taught you about their whisky preference. They are all murderers, they all are responsible for deaths of the very people they should be protecting. Mao starved his own, Hitler used chemistry. BJ has done both. I hope one day you read that response back and are have grown enough as a person to realise how callous it is. People are dying, needlessly, people are suffering because of this regime. 

Care to give a proper answer rather than make jokes when some people don't even have food in their stomachs? 

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

So does the conservative government. How many lives before you think it's not okay what they're doing? 

As for blaming China that's very xenophobic to the point you could even be mistaken for quoting Donald Trump. Would you say the same of any other virus? 

Any how your answer to how you can defend Conservatives seems to be it's china's fault... So even if we do blame China for starting it (and we'd lose people because of it). If you look at the rest of the world are reaction has not only caused more deaths it's encouraged them. Look at Japan who are closer to China, has twice our population and a higher proportion who are high risk. So at the very worst I'd expect our loses to be half of theirs, yet we've lost twice as many as them, 4 times the expectated worst case scenario. So if you do truly blame China you'd be blaming them for 7,500 people. That still leaves blood on the hands of every tory for the other 25,000 and counting. 

Speaking of death tolls you've not addressed how the death toll between all the murderers is relevant? 

 

[johnh]

19 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Don't know what school you went to that taught you about their whisky preference. They are all murderers, they all are responsible for deaths of the very people they should be protecting. Mao starved his own, Hitler used chemistry. BJ has done both. I hope one day you read that response back and are have grown enough as a person to realise how callous it is. People are dying, needlessly, people are suffering because of this regime. 

Care to give a proper answer rather than make jokes when some people don't even have food in their stomachs? 

 

So at last we seem to have got somewhere.  You were comparing Boris to Mao and Hitler in the context of genocide.  At first, I thought it was just your usual outrageous OTT but I now realise you are serious.   You really need to see someone and get some counselling.  To use Scouse terminology 'get your bumps felt'.

Don't bother responding as I can't be bothered wasting time on you.

[pete0]

13 minutes ago, johnh said:

So at last we seem to have got somewhere.  You were comparing Boris to Mao and Hitler in the context of genocide.  At first, I thought it was just your usual outrageous OTT but I now realise you are serious.   You really need to see someone and get some counselling.  To use Scouse terminology 'get your bumps felt'.

Don't bother responding as I can't be bothered wasting time on you.

Says it all that you think I need counselling for having some empathy and compassion. 

You had enough time to respond twice trying to divert away from my question so that a load of bollocks. So stop being a shit house and say it loud and proud, why you're xenophobic and believe the government is right to not protect people from hunger, from illness, from death. 

3 hours ago, pete0 said:

So does the conservative government. How many lives before you think it's not okay what they're doing? 

As for blaming China that's very xenophobic to the point you could even be mistaken for quoting Donald Trump. Would you say the same of any other virus? 

Any how your answer to how you can defend Conservatives seems to be it's china's fault... So even if we do blame China for starting it (and we'd lose people because of it). If you look at the rest of the world are reaction has not only caused more deaths it's encouraged them. Look at Japan who are closer to China, has twice our population and a higher proportion who are high risk. So at the very worst I'd expect our loses to be half of theirs, yet we've lost twice as many as them, 4 times the expectated worst case scenario. So if you do truly blame China you'd be blaming them for 7,500 people. That still leaves blood on the hands of every tory for the other 25,000 and counting. 

Speaking of death tolls you've not addressed how the death toll between all the murderers is relevant? 

 

[pete0]

9 hours ago, pete0 said:

Nah, they'll be shouting get back to work as they twist isolation being lazy people. Horrible cunts the lot of them. 

Didn't take them long

Teachers are lazy... 

https://mobile.twitter.com/KTHopkins/status/1261318705465765894

Unions are to blame.. 

Tory propaganda. How the fuck is this still happening in the 21st century. 

[pete0]

 

[pete0]

https://m.facebook.com/shane.nickels2/posts/pcb.10163451762495231/?photo_id=10163451762100231&mds=%2Fphotos%2Fviewer%2F%3Fphotoset_token%3Dpcb.10163451762495231%26photo%3D10163451762100231%26profileid%3D692229534%26source%3D48%26refid%3D52%26_ft_%3Dmf_story_key.10163451762495231%3Atop_level_post_id.10163451762495231%3Atl_objid.10163451762495231%3Acontent_owner_id_new.656535230%3Athrowback_story_fbid.10163451762495231%3Aphoto_attachments_list.[10163451762100231%2C10163451762170231%2C10163451762275231%2C10163451762220231%2C10163451762130231]%3Astory_location.4%3Astory_attachment_style.album%3Athid.656535230%26__tn__%3DEH-R%26cached_data%3Dfalse%26ftid%3D&mdp=1&mdf=1

 

[pete0]

2 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Different governments though. Banks where bailed out by Gordon Brown's Labour Party. They should have been left to collapse or be fully nationalised. There should be no bailouts for banks and businesses, only nationalisation.

"Can you think of anybody who stuck up for the bankers as much as I did? I defended them day in, day out, from those who frankly wanted to hang them from the nearest lamppost." 

Not many people know this but this was actually Gordon Brown.. Dressed as BJ the clown.

The government acted with the full support of the opposition so... Any way what's your point for forcing people back to work and potentially killing them? 

 

[pete0]

2 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Get back to work lazy arse. 

Very poor attempt at a joke. 

[pete0]

Just now, TallPaul1878 said:

Didn't say that though did I Karen. I said that it was a Labour government that bailed out the banks. It's wrong to conflate the two issues due to being different governments. How would a Labour government have handled the coronavirus pandemic?

Without a shadow of doubt a lot fucking better. Corbyn would have put the people first although the opposition would have put up a massive stink against helping people unlike when they helped bail out the bankers.

We'd have seen something a lot closer to New Zealand. People would be safer and less would be dead. 

(now get off your phone and back to work lazy arse) 

[Formby]

Interesting article from The New Statesman about how bad Corbyn was (written by a Labour MP). 

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/labour-leadership-race/2020/03/labours-mess-predictable-result-leader-and-philosophy-hated

 

[pete0]

49 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Absolute twaddle Karen. The virus was here before anyone even knew about it because China covered it up. Could have been here as early as November according to researchers. How would Corbyn have prevented a virus from spreading undetected for 3 months in a huge city like London with it's massive population? The virus doesn't care about your political leanings or your hatred of anyone who is a little further right of Mao. It will infect who it will infect, they will survive or they will die. Lockdown isn't to stop the spread of the virus, it is to stop the collapse of the health service due to a lack of ICU beds. How would Corbyn have anticipated the virus and ramped up ICU production before the virus struck. We didn't need those beds until coronavirus, it was a none issue irrespective of NHS funding issues elsewhere.

Sweden hasn't done a lockdown at all, it is confident that the virus will spread and people will develop immunity. So is lockdown right or wrong then? Are Sweden going to regret not locking down like everywhere else? Or is it because Sweden simply doesn't have the population density that Britain has. Approx 7 million people live in London, Sweden's entire country is only 10 million.

I have sympathy for NHS staff who have lost their lives to coronavirus because their duty is to put themselves in harm's way in this instance but the other people who have died were always going to die of coronavirus because they are elderly or have multiple comorbidities. BAME, particular S.E Asian have lifestyles in which they live in multi-generational households, again a breeding ground for the virus.

It's lunchtime and I can spend as long as I like on my phone as I'm the only spark here and the program is slow. Have a nice day

You keep calling me Karen like it's an insult but the only person you're insulting is your mother by being mysomisogynistic, well unless her name is Karen and she she gives a fuck about people. If that's the case I'll take the compliment, you can even call me mum. 

Speaking of giving a fuck about people. Why do you care more about how the Chinese are treated by their government than how our government treats our population? 

Wow, wasn't expecting you to be a conspiracy nut. The UK knew about the virus in January, even published a health warning on the 23rd.  https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2020/01/23/wuhan-novel-coronavirus-what-you-need-to-know/

So we knew well in advance. We have lost more than most countries and that is solely on the government. Japan is more densely populated, as twice as many people as us, and have lost half as many lives all whilst being closer to the epicentre. How can I justify our governments approach? You've even answered your own question on Sweden. 

Regarding the NHS being fine until this. It's been underfunded for years, it's been on the brink and only managed to survive due to doctors and nurses going above and beyond. What far right website you been on that days otherwise? 

I don't think you're capable of sympathy. NHS staff don't have a duty to put themselves in harms way you absolute idiot. They are medical staff not soldiers. I get it, you're not old and you're white you'll be fine. Every one else can die. Bet you didn't stick to 2m rule you absolute selfish bastard. 

Ironic that you're a spark. I bet you're nickname on site is soft cunt or is that's your bosses for paying you to dick about on your phone. 

[MikeO]

1 hour ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Woah sonny, you can't post that here. This is a far left circle jerk don't ya know. You'll get dogpiled on and the circular firing squad will take potshots

Just after you posted this you said in another thread that it's just one person, is he a circle all by himself? Make your mind up.

[pete0]

2 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Calm down Karen

If you read my post you'd know I am calm. Guessing by you neglecting to address anything in it you must realise you were wrong. Hopefully you use this little education to be a better person in the future, or at least learn to make an informed decision. 

[Matt]

Closed while we discuss the reports behind the scenes

[Matt]

Now that things have simmered down, I’ll reopen the thread.

also, wanted to share this:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-52806086
 

im as guilty as many for painting all politicians with the same brush, but kudos to him and the others (quite a few Torys) voicing their distain over this despicable action. 

[MikeO]

Enlightening!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52808059

[Palfy]

52 minutes ago, Matt said:

Now that things have simmered down, I’ll reopen the thread.

also, wanted to share this:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-52806086
 

im as guilty as many for painting all politicians with the same brush, but kudos to him and the others (quite a few Torys) voicing their distain over this despicable action. 

I don’t think we are in condemnation of his actions because of his political persuasion, I’d like to think we would condemn anyone from any party for the same thing. 
He breached the lockdown guidelines and he should be setting an example, after all he was involved in putting the rules together. 

[MikeO]

21 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

2 weeks ago I was caught in a dilemma of what to do with my kids. The baby has had a number of hospital visits due to milk allergies and a floppy larynx. He has choked and stopped breathing twice and has been kept in for around 2 weeks off and on now. My wife doesn't drive due to her eyesight and I couldn't keep leaving the kids as they are 11 and 9 and not really mature enough to be home alone for any long periods.

Having discussed this with grandparents they insisted that, if needs be, we should take the children to them in Ormskirk. Not exactly London to Durham but certainly not within the household.

Fortunately this did not need to come to pass but I was in a situation where I needed to potentially make a judgement call on what to do with the kids. There is absolutely no way on God's Green Earth we would use any kind of social services.

Yes Cummings made a judgement call and, with hindsight, it seemed to be a bad one. But this media storm is nothing but manufactured outrage. If Cummings and Boris stick to their guns and tough the media storm out they will have proven to the rest of the party what they already know, the London media is completely out of touch with the rest of the country. What the big urban centres think and say is irrelevant. They represent about 1/6 of the population, that's not enough to win an election. We are at the dawn of a new kind of politics. Bloc voting!

For me the worst thing he did was to take his family on a fifty-odd mile round trip to check if his eyesight was OK to drive back to London; what if it wasn't? He could've killed them all or, worse, an innocent passer-by. 

I agree on the social services point though but surely a man in his position would be able to source some child-care in London. He's not exactly short of a few bob is he?

[Palfy]

31 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

2 weeks ago I was caught in a dilemma of what to do with my kids. The baby has had a number of hospital visits due to milk allergies and a floppy larynx. He has choked and stopped breathing twice and has been kept in for around 2 weeks off and on now. My wife doesn't drive due to her eyesight and I couldn't keep leaving the kids as they are 11 and 9 and not really mature enough to be home alone for any long periods.

Having discussed this with grandparents they insisted that, if needs be, we should take the children to them in Ormskirk. Not exactly London to Durham but certainly not within the household.

Fortunately this did not need to come to pass but I was in a situation where I needed to potentially make a judgement call on what to do with the kids. There is absolutely no way on God's Green Earth we would use any kind of social services.

Yes Cummings made a judgement call and, with hindsight, it seemed to be a bad one. But this media storm is nothing but manufactured outrage. If Cummings and Boris stick to their guns and tough the media storm out they will have proven to the rest of the party what they already know, the London media is completely out of touch with the rest of the country. What the big urban centres think and say is irrelevant. They represent about 1/6 of the population, that's not enough to win an election. We are at the dawn of a new kind of politics. Bloc voting!

If you believe his story in its entirety then you could possibly say it was wrong in hindsight but forgivable under the circumstances.

 I believe what you have said about your own personal circumstances, and wouldn’t consider condemning you if you had to take the decisions you stated. 
But I do not believe a lot of his accounts on why and what he did, for me he has made up a tissue of lies to try and justify why he was seen doing what he shouldn’t have been doing, give him an hour with kier Starmer and the truth will soon come out.  

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

For me the worst thing he did was to take his family on a fifty-odd mile round trip to check if his eyesight was OK to drive back to London; what if it wasn't? He could've killed them all or, worse, an innocent passer-by. 

I agree on the social services point though but surely a man in his position would be able to source some child-care in London. He's not exactly short of a few bob is he?

The thing is Mike he was caught out visiting beauty spots and came up with this lame excuse that he was checking if he was safe to drive, but when he got to the castle area he felt sick and had to get out the car and walk to a bench and sit there with his wife a child for 15 minutes that’s why he was seen there, and then on the drive back his son conveniently wanted to go for a wee by another beauty spot that’s why they were seen walking in the woods, if anyone believes that they need to check themselves in for psychiatric help.  

[Romey 1878]

13 minutes ago, Palfy said:

The thing is Mike he was caught out visiting beauty spots and came up with this lame excuse that he was checking if he was safe to drive, but when he got to the castle area he felt sick and had to get out the car and walk to a bench and sit there with his wife a child for 15 minutes that’s why he was seen there, and then on the drive back his son conveniently wanted to go for a wee by another beauty spot that’s why they were seen walking in the woods, if anyone believes that they need to check themselves in psychiatric help.  

Not to mention that some of this took place while Cummings was unable to get out of bed due to the severity of the aches he was experiencing according to his wife’s account that was published before all of this came to light.

Lie after lie. 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Oh I don't doubt that a lot of what he has said has been tattle. He cocked up by going to a beauty spot. The media needs to make it's mind up about what they are angry about. Is it because he went to Durham or is it because he tried to cover his tracks? Seems they just want a circus as usual.

Like I said before, this is going to be real interesting in how the Tories react. If they stick by their guns, which I suspect they will, then they are basically giving the finger to legacy media. The world does not revolve around the BBC, Piers Morgan or Twitter outrage mobs. Their have lost their grip on the population and how they can influence them.

Your right the world doesn’t revolve around those you mentioned, and journalists can be very tribal in there views and more often than not are a force for evil rather than good. 
But sometimes they can provide a very valid service and come together no matter what party they are batting for to be a powerful voice for the people against the establishment and it’s leaders, and this is a prime example of the media from all political persuasions coming together to bring to the attention of the country a wrong that deserves to be brought into the open and be debated, with no political grievances just purely right and wrong, and pretty much all sides have agreed he was guilty of breaking the rules and should resign or be sacked, bar his paymaster the PM for his own selfish and inadequate reasons. 
 

[pete0]

 

[holystove]

1 hour ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Thanks to the internet I found out about coronavirus in late November. I was getting video footage of Chinese government welding people into their apartments and using drones with thermal imaging to spy on citizens and detect their temperature. The news reporting nothing of this. Chinese citizens being turned away from hospitals as they were in a total state of collapse.

The mainstream media has not once put China to question. It dare not speak ill for fear of being cut off from the marketplace there. For that I will never forgive them.

3000 deaths in China my arse!

Perhaps because they weren't able to verify it.   On the internet you can go down a lot of rabbit holes and come out on the other side outraged that the mainstream media is not reporting it.

'Thanks to the internet I found out ..' 

[pete0]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/27/privatisation-uk-disatrous-coronavirus-response-ppe-care-homes-corporate-power-public-policy?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2N2x0mvky_O0RL6WFlSlcCFKRLVnSOKlCSCPnihVdhyhB6yBGI5oBoKaE#Echobox=1590566367

 

[pete0]

Ben Smoke (@bencsmoke) Tweeted:

as 8pm clap happened across the country, these doctors silently took a knee outside downing street and displayed a sign stating “doctors not martyrs”. it’s reported that over 200 nhs staff have died from coronavirus so far. https://t.co/TppKSiNo5H https://twitter.com/bencsmoke/status/1266083467760152576?s=20

[pete0]

 

[pete0]

https://www.hja.net/press-releases/launch-of-citizens-bid-for-prosecution-of-dominic-cummings/?fbclid=IwAR20I4RJsZsBrqyct5QDy7UY6L83xhLXqJb6Xb08Suqt5HgfYOhIUu3H4zU

[MikeO]

35 minutes ago, pete0 said:

https://www.hja.net/press-releases/launch-of-citizens-bid-for-prosecution-of-dominic-cummings/?fbclid=IwAR20I4RJsZsBrqyct5QDy7UY6L83xhLXqJb6Xb08Suqt5HgfYOhIUu3H4zU

Very pleased this is not going to be allowed to go away.