General Election/UK Politics

[MikeO]

9 minutes ago, johnh said:

Be fair Mike.  During the recent storms, some of the poor guys won't have been able to get into London.  I think they have to sign in to get their money?  (Talking about the Lords here)

(this is an ironic post!)

So very similar to Universal Credit then!

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, MikeO said:

Plus their travel expenses are paid and the poor impoverished guys have subsidised restaurant facilities; how's anyone supposed to survive on £323 a day?

Makes your blood boil their all there on a jolly, contributing the sum of diddly squat

[Chach]

11 hours ago, MikeO said:

Plus their travel expenses are paid and the poor impoverished guys have subsidised restaurant facilities; how's anyone supposed to survive on £323 a day?

The comparison to UC is bogus though, whether you agree with the function they perform is a different matter as is whether the level of UC is high enough, the remuneration for politicians needs to be commensurate with industry. There's likely people on this thread who earn more than a MP so not surprising we're not attracting the best and brightest.

[pete0]

21 minutes ago, Chach said:

The comparison to UC is bogus though, whether you agree with the function they perform is a different matter as is whether the level of UC is high enough, the remuneration for politicians needs to be commensurate with industry. There's likely people on this thread who earn more than a MP so not surprising we're not attracting the best and brightest.

Why? Politians should be doing their best for the people. If anything any of them only there for the money should be fucked off as there greed will influence them to pick their own needs ahead of the nations. 

[Chach]

13 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Why? Politians should be doing their best for the people. If anything any of them only there for the money should be fucked off as there greed will influence them to pick their own needs ahead of the nations. 

I don't consider it greedy to want to earn somewhere approaching your earning potential, I also disagree with the last part of your statement and its evidently true that the more comfortable people are (I'm not talking about the super rich here, I am talking comfortable) the more they are inclined to care about the vulnerable in society which is why inner city types are more likely to vote for progressive parties.

[pete0]

2 minutes ago, Chach said:

I don't consider it greedy to want to earn somewhere approaching your earning potential, I also disagree with the last part of your statement and its evidently true that the more comfortable people are (I'm not talking about the super rich here, I am talking comfortable) the more they are inclined to care about the vulnerable in society which is why inner city types are more likely to vote for progressive parties.

Any evidence of that? Beyond the North West I don't see any rich boroughs voting Labour. 

The whole point of a politician is to put your country and the people before yourself. Earning potential shouldn't come into it as if you're doing that you're not gonna maximise the wellbeing of the county. 

[Chach]

5 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Any evidence of that? Beyond the North West I don't see any rich boroughs voting Labour. 

The whole point of a politician is to put your country and the people before yourself. Earning potential shouldn't come into it as if you're doing that you're not gonna maximise the wellbeing of the county. 

In an election where Labour were decimated they won a majority of the seats in London. I'm not just referring to the UK there either its a Western thing, the more comfortable people are the more they care about social issues in general, climate change, LGBTI rights etc.

I see your sentiment but I don't think politics should or needs to be such an all encompassing sacrifice, it's human nature to worry about your own households needs before you worry about other peoples.

 

[pete0]

1 minute ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Labour are a failed party. They allowed themselves to be overtaken by cultural marxists and will die on that hill. They're still up there insisting they have some sort of moral high ground whilst they pander to anyone and anything that might throw a vote on their way, so long as they aren't the white working class.

I'm not able to vote as not a single political party is anywhere near my alignment and so I must say with a heavy heart that this country has no future and sectarian violence is inevitable. 

80+% of Liverpool got behind them, and as far as I'm aware it's mostly white working class. One of if not the biggest margin in the country. No coincidence that were also the least media influenced. Labour were cheated by a media no better than North Korea's. Do you blame the opposition for 'letting' the Nazis get into power? 

[pete0]

1 minute ago, Chach said:

In an election where Labour were decimated they won a majority of the seats in London. I'm not just referring to the UK there either its a Western thing, the more comfortable people are the more they care about social issues in general, climate change, LGBTI rights etc.

I see your sentiment but I don't think politics should or needs to be such an all encompassing sacrifice, it's human nature to worry about your own households needs before you worry about other peoples.

 

Completely disagree. Bar your mental health you should never put someone before yourself. 

[Chach]

1 minute ago, pete0 said:

Completely disagree. Bar your mental health you should never put someone before yourself. 

What are you disagreeing with there? My point is the same sentiment.

[pete0]

1 minute ago, Chach said:

What are you disagreeing with there? My point is the same sentiment.

You say it's human nature to put your own needs first. For me a politician should see the whole country as his household and do the best for everyone. 

[Chach]

6 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Do you blame the opposition for 'letting' the Nazis get into power? 

This is a bad example mate, the opposition in that instance actually acquiesced to the removal of the democratic apparatus that resulted in Germany becoming a dictatorship.  

[pete0]

1 minute ago, Chach said:

This is a bad example mate, the opposition in that instance actually acquiesced to the removal of the democratic apparatus that resulted in Germany becoming a dictatorship.  

My bad . Point still stands, the other parties then. 

[Chach]

27 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Progressives are the most fascist people on the face of the earth. They believe it is quaint that they employ polish baby sitters or get their coffee from Italian baristas. But more importantly they dont give a damn that their car is washed my an illegal immigrant on less than minimum wage or that their clothes and consumer goods are made at a Chinese or Vietnamese sweat shop.

They live in cloud cuckoo land and have no idea how the real world works. They look at ethnic minorities as an easy vote and feel entitled to their servitude.

Progressives have been guilty of some hypocrisy but Jesus mate, try and keep a little bit of balance. That is not Fascism.

[pete0]

41 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Liverpool stands out for being very politically left leaning, like most metropolitan areas really except it still maintains a lot of it's local identity. It also is living in the hang over of Thatcherism and votes to keep tories out rather than to back Labour.

Labour won the student votes after the betrayal of the Lib Dems over tuition fees so a lot of the middle class students vote that way now where they previously would have voted Lib Dem.

We may not like it but we are beginning to see sectarianism form in this country, just like in the US really. Labour, like the Democrats in the US, have aligned themselves with multi-culturalism and chase the immigrant vote. The white working classes have been fooled into thinking that they should vote Tory/Republican when really nobody has their best interests in mind.

Again, I will stress, we might not like this idea but look at the voting demographics and it explains the rise of populism and nationalism across the country and the western world really.

Think the chanting of oh Jeremy Corbyn and a heavy backing of unions in general show Liverpool back labour. You say the anti b thatcher like we'd vote tory if it wasn't for a chip on our shoulder. Most on this city find tories to be disgusting because of how they treat people, you don't need to look back at thatcher for that the last decade shows enough. 

The white working class have been fooled. But that's by the far right media. You can't blame Labour for that. 

[Chach]

45 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

You're right, I got my monikers wrong, there is a distinct twist of communism around many progressives. There's nothing more pathetic than seeing upper middle class mummy's boys protesting under Socialist Worker banners and chanting "The Workers United".

That Momentum crew have a very authoritarian bent, not even interested in any other candidate and just want to install Long-Bailey as the new Labour leader.

[pete0]

11 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said:

The chanting of "Oh Jeremy Corbyn" shows that the city is littered with communists and contrarians. They are loud and aggressive and completely intolerant of any opposition. To suggest that the media is far right shows how far left many people have gone. The BBC is obnoxiously left leaning, it's programming is practically progressive propaganda. The media is absolutely decadent, I don't watch a single thing barring a bit of Saturday and Sunday morning tv. I'm socially conservative, old fashioned and according to the media a far right extremist. 

Fundamentally communism is great. Unfortunately it's historically abused by far rights. Just look at the terrible far left scandanavian countries, would you not want to be more like them. Happier, everyone happier. 

The BBC has been proven to be bias towards the right. Literally this current government are replicating the nazis with their help and the rest of the media. 

 

[MikeO]

I think that the fact that the BBC is accused of being left-wing by the right and right-wing by the left suggests it's doing a decent job.

[Palfy]

12 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said:

The chanting of "Oh Jeremy Corbyn" shows that the city is littered with communists and contrarians. They are loud and aggressive and completely intolerant of any opposition. To suggest that the media is far right shows how far left many people have gone. The BBC is obnoxiously left leaning, it's programming is practically progressive propaganda. The media is absolutely decadent, I don't watch a single thing barring a bit of Saturday and Sunday morning tv. I'm socially conservative, old fashioned and according to the media a far right extremist. 

I’ve met many Socialist in my life but I can honestly say that I don’t know a single communist. 
The most loud abusive and violent groups I’m aware of are the far right racist groups like the NF and white supremacy groups. 
On the issue of more grenade attacks in Sweden than any other country in the world doesn’t mean a socialist government are responsible for that, or we would have suffered the same fate when we had ten years of Blair, instead we’ve had more attacks in this country under a right wing government, and it isn’t there fault. 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Sweden has had the most grenade attacks of any country on earth that is not an active war zone. Truly an inspiration to us all. All of the Scandinavian countries are seeing a resurgence in nationalist parties. Why is that?

Communism is great when you are a useless eater having your every need provided for you. Not so great when you are the provider. It is a stupid idea that has NEVER EVER worked anywhere on earth. It punishes entrepreneurs and encourages fecklessness. 

Replicating Nazis, hilarious, you're hysterical. I was just watching an episode of Dr Who the other day and it just really inspired me to run to my local synagogue and start rounding everyone up.

That's your best, grenades. Does any other county even still use them. 

Point is they are happier than us, no? Why would you not want to be more like them? 

Like I said doesn't work because of the far right. What far left communism is there? Like Palfy says though it's socialist not communist any how. Punishes entrepreneurs? True entrepreneurs are happy to share. Only punishes mono/oligopolies. By punish, makes them play their fair share. We've got victorian deseases and children without food in their belly whilst the rich get richer. How's that on? Or better yet tory idealogy like this https://www.ft.com/content/7b75c07e-50b6-11ea-8841-482eed0038b1?fbclid=IwAR2OCn4Qi9epPJHyM-MOwupCTjlu1l1ALhyHSukPTtxCjSk24dcbWaj9jr0

Not hilarious one bit. As a nation we are disgusting and very much replicating nazi Germany. 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, TallPaul1878 said:

They have an active genuine far right movement in Sweden and all across Scandinavia called Nord Front. They hold huge rallies and are making waves in their political system. Scandinavians are NOT happy with their state of things.

You're off your rocker.

Not gonna answer the rest? 

[holystove]

6 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said:

They have an active genuine far right movement in Sweden and all across Scandinavia called Nord Front. They hold huge rallies and are making waves in their political system. Scandinavians are NOT happy with their state of things.

You're off your rocker.

0,03% last elections. 

[pete0]

3 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Communism has changed mate. They know it's unpopular amongst the general public. Ever heard of "The Long March Through The Institutions"?

Commies were told to stop leafleting and stop trying to recruit. To stop getting involved in politics because they could not win. Instead they focus on social issues. To put themselves into institutions like the education system, the legal profession, the media.

Seeing as you are quite the commie yourself I don't see any point in further conversation. 

Really don't see how that addresses anything. What's wrong with the ideals of communism? Do you not believe everyone should be treated equally? Do you believe you're part of a master race, caste, or class that makes you more important? That you should and deserve to be treated better than someone else? Do you even consider those not of your race, caste or class to even be someone else or do you view them as something else? 

(I've previously said in the perfect world communism would be best. Fact is it's ruined by power hungry individuals).

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, holystove said:

0,03% last elections. 

Wow that’s huge TallPaul will be shaken by that

[Palfy]

4 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Communism has changed mate. They know it's unpopular amongst the general public. Ever heard of "The Long March Through The Institutions"?

Commies were told to stop leafleting and stop trying to recruit. To stop getting involved in politics because they could not win. Instead they focus on social issues. To put themselves into institutions like the education system, the legal profession, the media.

Seeing as you are quite the commie yourself I don't see any point in further conversation. 

I don’t know what shit you have been reading, but my advice to you is put it down it’s doing you no favours, seriously. 

[markjazzbassist]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

Really don't see how that addresses anything. What's wrong with the ideals of communism? Do you not believe everyone should be treated equally? Do you believe you're part of a master race, caste, or class that makes you more important? That you should and deserve to be treated better than someone else? Do you even consider those not of your race, caste or class to even be someone else or do you view them as something else? 

(I've previously said in the perfect world communism would be best. Fact is it's ruined by power hungry individuals).

i agree with you pete

[markjazzbassist]

9 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

What has not being a communist got to do with being a racist as Pete is implying that I am and that I don't appreciate?

i agree that in theory communism is a great thing.  Same with Socialism.  I believe everyone is equal and should be treated as such.  that's what i agreed with.

[pete0]

26 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Aah, playing the racism card I see. If you dont agree with someone just call then racist. That's where you're going here.

Can't be arsed with disingenuous cunts like that.

I'm talking equality. That's ultimately what socialism and communism is. 

As for you being offended. That's your problem. I'm sure you'd be just as offended if someone called you a commie oh wait that's what you did. Funny thing is I've not thrown insults unlike you. I've made a point, you can't justify shitting on my beliefs or that yours are well founded. I've not limited it to racism, I find your ideology inhuman. 

[markjazzbassist]

5 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

That's not communism or socialism. It's altruism. Communism and socialism don't have the monopoly on social justice, they just have the most people involved in social justice. Communists and socialists tend not to believe in equality, they believe in equity. There's a distinction there, positive discrimination and quotas are a form of equity. It's giving people a leg up because they start from a lower position, something that isn't bad in and of itself but is prone to unintended consequences (by concentrating on one group you neglect another).

You see this very much so in the American education system. When everyone is given a "fair crack of the whip" you find that Indian and Chinese students rise to the top and that African American students struggle the most. Equality doesn't work there so they need to intervene. Should Indian and Chinese students be held back to make way for others? 

the american education system is the definition of unequal and inequitable.  i'm not sure where you got that info but our system is broken beyond belief.  i live in this country.  the reason african americans do badly on the whole is due to their unequal treatment.  less opportunities, less money for the same job as others, systematic racism, your analogy is as wrong as it can get.

[markjazzbassist]

 

13 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

I never said the education system was equal.

no you said this

25 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

You see this very much so in the American education system. When everyone is given a "fair crack of the whip" you find that Indian and Chinese students rise to the top and that African American students struggle the most. 

which i stated was untrue because they aren't given a fair crack due to the issues i stated.