Brighton and Hove Albion (Home) Saturday March 10th

[Hafnia]

https://www.magzter.com/article/Sports/Everton-Programmes/Joe-Parkinson

[Palfy]

5 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Joe Parkinson in some programme notes described gana as a player he identified with most.... a key player to the team. 

Never new that so if he said that about himself then I wouldn't disagree, had fond memories of him.

[Palfy]

36 minutes ago, hafnia said:

https://www.magzter.com/article/Sports/Everton-Programmes/Joe-Parkinson

I've just remembered I've got Parkinson's signature on a 95 shirt Rideout got me from the FA Cup team, for all the money he had he made me pay him for the shirt.

[Hafnia]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I've just remembered I've got Parkinson's signature on a 95 shirt Rideout got me from the FA Cup team, for all the money he had he made me pay him for the shirt.

Wow. Cheapskate!

[pete0]

I'd say Gana is more like Tommy Graveson positionally but without any football ability or grit. Basically the only similarity is that he runs round like a headless chicken. Tbh it's really hard to find a carbon copy as I can't think of a player any where near as bad in midfield as Gana. Genuinely looking at so the teams in the prem I'd swap him for their player in his position. 

Just looking at the bottom three. Allen, Krychowiak, and Milivojević. 

[Hafnia]

Just now, pete0 said:

I'd say Gana is more like Tommy Graveson positionally but without any football ability or grit. Basically the only similarity is that he runs round like a headless chicken. Tbh it's really hard to find a carbon copy as I can't think of a player any where near as bad in midfield as Gana. Genuinely looking at so the teams in the prem I'd swap him for their player in his position. 

Just looking at the bottom three. Allen, Krychowiak, and Milivojević. 

Yeah maybe we should swap him for Jordan Henderson who just likes to get into positions..... can't tackle for shit or win the ball but hey that's the sign of a bad player isn'tt it. 

[pete0]

3 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Yeah maybe we should swap him for Jordan Henderson who just likes to get into positions..... can't tackle for shit or win the ball but hey that's the sign of a bad player isn'ttt it. 

People laughed at Cleverley and I'd have him over Gana, he does the nothing stuff but the side is better with him than without. Some players you don't notice that the add until they aren't in the side. 

[Hafnia]

20 minutes ago, pete0 said:

People laughed at Cleverley and I'd have him over Gana, he does the nothing stuff but the side is better with him than without. Some players you don't notice that the add until they aren't in the side. 

No I think what you do is try and go with the "I'm gonna be really clever by telling people that someone widely accepted as very good isn'ttt actually any good but a certain average player is far better".

See Gerrard, Kane, lampard, 

It's a bit like someone telling the world that a £4 bottle of wine from Aldi is better than a £500 vintage ... it' a bold "I know what I'm talking about" statement. 

A bit like Roy Hodgson voting for mascherano as ballon dor.... Messi and Ronaldo nowhere. 

[MikeO]

32 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Genuinely looking at so the teams in the prem I'd swap him for their player in his position. 

Wibble is all I can say to that, trying to come up with a coherent response but there isn'tt one when someone is so entrenched in a (imo) ludicrous corner. I'm at a loss. 

[Bailey]

4 hours ago, pete0 said:

How come you've compared Rooney to Gana? Rooney does the same role as Schneiderlin whereas as far as I can tell Davies replaces Gana in the side. 

When Gana plays alongside Rooney, Gana is the defensive player and Rooney is the support, with Davies more attacking. 

Yesterday it was Rooney defensive, Davies support and Siggy attacking. 

[pete0]

18 minutes ago, Bailey said:

When Gana plays alongside Rooney, Gana is the defensive player and Rooney is the support, with Davies more attacking. 

Yesterday it was Rooney defensive, Davies support and Siggy attacking. 

I see it free other way round. Rooney doesn't have the legs. He sits mostly and has to be smart when deciding to venture up the pitch. He tends to be the player taking it off the Centre half, passes to Gana who then gives it back to a defender. 

I've not noticed any difference in Gana's game when he's next to Schneiderlin compared to Rooney any how. 

[Paddock]

18 hours ago, pete0 said:

Cuco has been solid enough defensively.  I agree the two centre halves are rubbish but they haven't been helped by Gana in front of them. They get over exposed and caught out more often because of him. 

Solid enough defensively?? Do you watch the game with your eyes closed Pete? He completely imbalances the side, he’s constantly caught out of position he gets sucked in so many times leaving our left flank exposed it’s embarrassing- he loses the ball all the time when we’re breaking forward again leaving us horribly exposed.

you bang on about Gana then say Martina has been solid defensively. There really is no point continuing the discussion.

[Hafnia]

2 minutes ago, Paddock said:

Solid enough defensively?? Do you watch the game with your eyes closed Pete? He completely imbalances the side, he’s constantly caught out of position he gets sucked in so many times leaving our left flank exposed it’s embarrassing- he loses the ball all the time when we’re breaking forward again leaving us horribly exposed.

you bang on about Gana then say Martina has been solid defensively. There really is no point continuing the discussion.

Cuco only gets off with severe criticism out of pity.  He shouldn'tbe here for one, he shouldn't be playing for two and he certainly shouldn't be out of position which is 3. 

He is awful. The number of times he lets the opponent get a cross in is a joke. He stands off his man all the time. 

He seems an honest guy etc etc and I don't like getting on players backs who have a decent attitude but I'm afraid he is poor..... very poor.  Tony Thomas level. 

[Paddock]

6 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Cuco only gets off with severe criticism out of pity.  He shouldn'tbe here for one, he shouldn't be playing for two and he certainly shouldn't be out of position which is 3. 

He is awful. The number of times he lets the opponent get a cross in is a joke. He stands off his man all the time. 

He seems an honest guy etc etc and I don't like getting on players backs who have a decent attitude but I'm afraid he is poor..... very poor.  Tony Thomas level. 

It’s a joke to say he’s been decent- he’s woeful and a massive part of why we’ve leaked so many goals- the cb have been dreadful but him at left back has contributed massively to it. Gana is a ball winner, he’s a hunter and goes looking for the ball, that’s his job- he’s chased it and created a couple of goals by harrassing defenders. Rooney and Davies are fine against a Brighton side that came for a draw with 2 solid banks of 4 but wait until we’re up against City or the shite- not a chance we’ll play with that midfield pairing you need to pray that Gana has a good game and snuffs out De Bruyne or Silva or Firmino because that’s what he is very good at but when the ball just comes back at us time and time again because, our hold up play is dreadful, our passing is sloppy or we play hoof ball then what does anyone expect from him.

He’s a good midfielder with a good engine in thhe Kante mold- not as good but similar and he brings energy and steel to the side- pity others around him don’t play for the shirt like he does but hey- it’s ok to give Martina a walk over because bless him- he’s not good enough.

[pete0]

2 hours ago, Paddock said:

Solid enough defensively?? Do you watch the game with your eyes closed Pete? He completely imbalances the side, he’s constantly caught out of position he gets sucked in so many times leaving our left flank exposed it’s embarrassing- he loses the ball all the time when we’re breaking forward again leaving us horribly exposed.

you bang on about Gana then say Martina has been solid defensively. There really is no point continuing the discussion.

The player you describe was him early doors. First few games at RB he was all over the shop, just shows how much reputation goes. Gana come in and was twice as fit as anyone, looked miles ahead. Now still lives off his first impression. Those who don't rate him isn'tt judging from this season alone, it's from the moment the rest of the team caught up fitness wise and then Gana started to stand out for all the wrong reasons. 

Cuco lost Salah (who was the most inform player in the league) in the derby once which was unlucky, had it been Baines no one would moan. Since then he's not been at much fault, much less than his counterparts any way. 

He's offered very little going forward, but defensively he's done his job.

[Hafnia]

35 minutes ago, pete0 said:

The player you describe was him early doors. First few games at RB he was all over the shop, just shows how much reputation goes. Gana come in and was twice as fit as anyone, looked miles ahead. Now still lives off his first impression. Those who don't rate him isn'ttt judging from this season alone, it's from the moment the rest of the team caught up fitness wise and then Gana started to stand out for all the wrong reasons. 

Cuco lost Salah (who was the most inform player in the league) in the derby once which was unlucky, had it been Baines no one would moan. Since then he's not been at much fault, much less than his counterparts any way. 

He's offered very little going forward, but defensively he's done his job.

Caught up with him fitness wise? Put the crack pipe down.  The lad covers ground at a level few people in the league can better, breaks into sprints and recovers and repeats at a level no player outside of Baines at his peak could get close to. 

aside from Coleman, davies and niasse no player can get within 20% of his output. 

[Paddock]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

The player you describe was him early doors. First few games at RB he was all over the shop, just shows how much reputation goes. Gana come in and was twice as fit as anyone, looked miles ahead. Now still lives off his first impression. Those who don't rate him isn'tttt judging from this season alone, it's from the moment the rest of the team caught up fitness wise and then Gana started to stand out for all the wrong reasons. 

Cuco lost Salah (who was the most inform player in the league) in the derby once which was unlucky, had it been Baines no one would moan. Since then he's not been at much fault, much less than his counterparts any way. 

He's offered very little going forward, but defensively he's done his job.

Pete, I’m sorry mate but you’re absolutely talking out of your arse. Martinez only mistake has been to lose Salah?? He’s always out of position our left hand side is always wide open, sometimes I’m frantically scanning the pitch to see where he is as the oppositions right winger strolls down and has about 3 days to decide where he wants to cross it and you think this is acceptable yet rinse Gana for being outbof position when he has to go chasing the ball because Scheiderlin can’t be arsed or our left back is standing in no mans land with his finger up his arse.

Deary fucking me.

[Bailey]

23 hours ago, pete0 said:

I see it free other way round. Rooney doesn't have the legs. He sits mostly and has to be smart when deciding to venture up the pitch. He tends to be the player taking it off the Centre half, passes to Gana who then gives it back to a defender. 

I've not noticed any difference in Gana's game when he's next to Schneiderlin compared to Rooney any how. 

Koeman used to play Schneiderlin deeper than Gana but whenever Gana and Rooney have player under Allardyce, Gana has been deepest, as shown by the average position maps. 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

Koeman used to play Schneiderlin deeper than Gana but whenever Gana and Rooney have player under Allardyce, Gana has been deepest, as shown by the average position maps. 

Is there any change from Gana's though. I'd imagine his heat map looks the fans every week. All over the place out of position.

I always notice Rooney being the furthest back collecting the ball from the centre halves, does my head in as Rooney should just stand further upfield and let the defence pass it out. 

[Palfy]

On Saturday Rooney played in Gana's position and showed how it should be done, for me Rooney highlighted how bad Gana and Schneiderlin have performed when playing there and how they have put the team under pressure especially in defence.

You can go on about winning the ball back as much as you like as if that's the most important thing to have in your armoury, but Rooney proved stay in position recycle the ball pass it well and don't lose it, and you have no need to be constantly be winning it back.

Unfortunately Gana is lacking in all the above bar winning the ball back, in football you win games by what you do when you have possession on

the ball as well as not having possession, the focus is on Gana now when he returns he needs to stay in position and create when in possession of the ball Rooney has set the bar higher.

And this isn'tt just Pete Sev and myself now who are saying this a lot of the press and pundits picked up on how Rooney dominated the game and played the holding midfield role as it should be, now maybe after Saturday's game if you witnessed it some of you might concede that there is some merit in what I have been trying to say even if I haven't been expressing my opinion in a fairway, which I will admit that sometimes I over step the mark but it is frustrating win you believe you see something and nobody else can see it because you feel they just see stats.

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

On Saturday Rooney played in Gana's position and showed how it should be done, for me Rooney highlighted how bad Gana and Schneiderlin have performed when playing there and how they have put the team under pressure especially in defence.

You can go on about winning the ball back as much as you like as if that's the most important thing to have in your armoury, but Rooney proved stay in position recycle the ball pass it well and don't lose it, and you have no need to be constantly be winning it back.

Unfortunately Gana is lacking in all the above bar winning the ball back, in football you win games by what you do when you have possession on

the ball as well as not having possession, the focus is on Gana now when he returns he needs to stay in position and create when in possession of the ball Rooney has set the bar higher.

And this isn'ttt just Pete Sev and myself now who are saying this a lot of the press and pundits picked up on how Rooney dominated the game and played the holding midfield role as it should be, now maybe after Saturday's game if you witnessed it some of you might concede that there is some merit in what I have been trying to say even if I haven't been expressing my opinion in a fairway, which I will admit that sometimes I over step the mark but it is frustrating win you believe you see something and nobody else can see it because you feel they just see stats.

Deary me.

What were Chelsea and Real doing having makelele?  They could have just got some old world class striker to play in his place and just dictate play..... 

Well maybe the issue is that they don't get to play Brighton every week. Maybe the issue is that ball retention against better sides is harder and you don' get the luxury of having Rooney play like it's a testimonial.

Having natural width for once meant Brightons midfield was stretched across.... not narrow like it has been which has restricted us. Gave Rooney loads of space.

 

 

 

[Bailey]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

On Saturday Rooney played in Gana's position and showed how it should be done, for me Rooney highlighted how bad Gana and Schneiderlin have performed when playing there and how they have put the team under pressure especially in defence.

You can go on about winning the ball back as much as you like as if that's the most important thing to have in your armoury, but Rooney proved stay in position recycle the ball pass it well and don't lose it, and you have no need to be constantly be winning it back.

Unfortunately Gana is lacking in all the above bar winning the ball back, in football you win games by what you do when you have possession on

the ball as well as not having possession, the focus is on Gana now when he returns he needs to stay in position and create when in possession of the ball Rooney has set the bar higher.

And this isn'ttt just Pete Sev and myself now who are saying this a lot of the press and pundits picked up on how Rooney dominated the game and played the holding midfield role as it should be, now maybe after Saturday's game if you witnessed it some of you might concede that there is some merit in what I have been trying to say even if I haven't been expressing my opinion in a fairway, which I will admit that sometimes I over step the mark but it is frustrating win you believe you see something and nobody else can see it because you feel they just see stats.

Just hold that thought until after the Liverpool and City games. In fact, even after the Stoke game as that won' be as 1 sided as the Brighton game was. 

[Btay]

57 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Deary me.

What were Chelsea and Real doing having makelele?  They could have just got some old world class striker to play in his place and just dictate play..... 

Well maybe the issue is that they don't get to play Brighton every week. Maybe the issue is that ball retention against better sides is harder and you don' get the luxury of having Rooney play like it's a testimonial.

Having natural width for once meant Brightons midfield was stretched across.... not narrow like it has been which has restricted us. Gave Rooney loads of space.

 

 

 

The point about wingers 100% also fullbacks that both bombed on. This allowed us to push them back as there was a threat of pace in behind and Rooney was able to find space. In games like this you need a Rooney who played that diagonal ball ( mainly to Theo) more so than a Gana to break it up. Rooney would have chased shadows against any of the teams above us - bar burnley 

[Bailey]

15 minutes ago, Btay said:

The point about wingers 100% also fullbacks that both bombed on. This allowed us to push them back as there was a threat of pace in behind and Rooney was able to find space. In games like this you need a Rooney who played that diagonal ball ( mainly to Theo) more so than a Gana to break it up. Rooney would have chased shadows against any of the teams above us - bar burnley 

That's part of the point, he doesn' chase shadows, he holds his position a lot more and protects the gap between the centre backs or sits in front of the centre forward when it's played up to him. 

Obviously that' a lot easier against a predictable team like Brighton than it is against a fluid side like City/Liverpool. 

It' a horses for courses job imo.

[Hafnia]

"Holding position"...... in other words not closing down the opponent. It's not something that the Barca midfielders do is it?  They press the shit out of the opponents.

Did anyone raise an issue with gana pressing players in his first season? Nope.  Because his midfield partners did their job. He wasn't covering for a shite full back.

[pete0]

37 minutes ago, hafnia said:

"Holding position"...... in other words not closing down the opponent. It's not something that the Barca midfielders do is it?  They press the shit out of the opponents.

Did anyone raise an issue with gana pressing players in his first season? Nope.  Because his midfield partners did their job. He wasn't covering for a shite full back.

In his first season people cottoned on about Nov/Dec (around the time his teammates were fully fit), put it down to a dip in form. Come back from Africa and has done diddly squat since. Gana going the African Cup saved our season, it gave Davies a chance and we started winning matches. Davies come in for him this weekend, and we won. No coincidence.

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, hafnia said:

"Holding position"...... in other words not closing down the opponent. It's not something that the Barca midfielders do is it?  They press the shit out of the opponents.

Did anyone raise an issue with gana pressing players in his first season? Nope.  Because his midfield partners did their job. He wasn't covering for a shite full back.

 

Hold on, are you comparing Allardyce's tactics to Barca's? If we pressed high up the pitch you might have a point but we dont, we sit deep and therefore positioning is more important because you arent defending in packs with aggression, you are getting into your shape, covering areas.

Yes they did. Gana's positioning has been questioned for a while, including by Koeman himself.

[Paddock]

4 hours ago, Bailey said:

Just hold that thought until after the Liverpool and City games. In fact, even after the Stoke game as that won' be as 1 sided as the Brighton game was. 

Been saying this for posts now- play Rooney and Davies against a good team where we hardly see the ball and we’d be fucked.

[markjazzbassist]

16 minutes ago, Paddock said:

Been saying this for posts now- play Rooney and Davies against a good team where we hardly see the ball and we’d be fucked.

agreed, davies has regressed and rooney can't defend.

[Palfy]

49 minutes ago, Paddock said:

Been saying this for posts now- play Rooney and Davies against a good team where we hardly see the ball and we’d be fucked.

Just like both Arsenal games and they aren’t that great lost both fucking hammered in both 5-1and 5-2, wait a minute while I just check if Gana was playing, fuck me he was from what you’ve just said I wasn’t expecting that.