Liverpool Derby (Goodison) Saturday April 7th

[London Blue]

Despite having the wrong players on the field (Rooney and Bolasie), having a poor game plan, and a very poor manager we almost contrived to win the game.

 

[sacitunal]

This team needs to play attack football, this is very clearly..forwards were alone except last 15 minutes

[Shukes]

We need to learn to walk before we start jumping into a rocket ship.

We just earnt a clean sheet when we have struggled to concede less than two all season. 

Not good enough by any means, but an improvement none the less.

[Hafnia]

6 minutes ago, Palfy said:

He's gonna blame poor finishing and by God he will be right how we miss Lukaku is unbelievable.

You having a laugh???  If we won that game it would have papered over the reality that our woes are nothing to do with do finishing and everything to do with the general quality of our play. 

You can't starve strikers of service week in week out and then just expect them to be sharp when we finally take advantage of a knackered 2nd team.  

Piss poor. Theo only took on his man at the end. 

[Hafnia]

10 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I think we have now unequivocally had the Gana / Rooney question answered in the big games. 

Yep. Huge difference.  Rooney is not a midfielder. He looks the business against lower level opponents. 

He could have moved Rooney up and bought someone else off. 

[Sir McGiven]

The most annoying thing for me, Liverpool didn't even care the derby. I mean, look at the starters... Firmino, Chamberlain sitting on the bench, Klaaven is the right-back. Everton should have punished it already. It's ok, you didn't expect this let's say, why didn't you bring Niasse into the game? Why not even considered trying 2 strikers? Last 10 min. was way more entertaining for Everton, it could have started earlier in the second half with proper changes... But of course not, bring Gana instead and leave Morgan on the pitch, 2 defensive midfielders will save your ass...

Not quite sure if Cenk's header was an attempt to pass towards Coleman's runway or an attempt to score but it should have been buried anyway. Also, terrible terrible and terrible finishing for DCL...

This team needs some radical changes next year, starting from the boss himself and his gum. I would explain Baines that he should be a substitute next year (not because of he is bad but for his age) and try to buy a solid left-back with some attacking skills and same goes for Rooney. I know it is not how it runs and not an easy task in real life but I would completely change the central midfielders and only keep Davies around.

[Cornish Steve]

16 minutes ago, Sir McGiven said:

The most annoying thing for me, Liverpool didn't even care the derby. I mean, look at the starters... Firmino, Chamberlain sitting on the bench, Klaaven is the right-back. Everton should have punished it already. It's ok, you didn't expect this let's say, why didn't you bring Niasse into the game? Why not even considered trying 2 strikers? Last 10 min. was way more entertaining for Everton, it could have started earlier in the second half with proper changes... But of course not, bring Gana instead and leave Morgan on the pitch, 2 defensive midfielders will save your ass...

Not quite sure if Cenk's header was an attempt to pass towards Coleman's runway or an attempt to score but it should have been buried anyway. Also, terrible terrible and terrible finishing for DCL...

This team needs some radical changes next year, starting from the boss himself and his gum. I would explain Baines that he should be a substitute next year (not because of he is bad but for his age) and try to buy a solid left-back with some attacking skills and same goes for Rooney. I know it is not how it runs and not an easy task in real life but I would completely change the central midfielders and only keep Davies around.

The irony is that most of the players we brought in last summer are central midfielders. 

[Palfy]

19 minutes ago, hafnia said:

You having a laugh???  If we won that game it would have papered over the reality that our woes are nothing to do with do finishing and everything to do with the general quality of our play. 

You can't starve strikers of service week in week out and then just expect them to be sharp when we finally take advantage of a knackered 2nd team.  

Piss poor. Theo only took on his man at the end. 

Haf DCL has been a poor finisher from day one that isn'tt going to change he should have buried that no excuses.

[Romey 1878]

Played like shite for most of the game, could’ve lost, then decided to play for the last bit of the game and looked brilliant and could’ve, and should’ve, won it. 

Everton. 

[Sir McGiven]

2 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

The irony is that most of the players we brought in last summer are central midfielders. 

Yes, Klaassen deserves some more chances to prove something as well. But Morgan, arguably Gana and Rooney are not what Everton needs on midfield.

[Hafnia]

8 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Haf DCL has been a poor finisher from day one that isn'ttt going to change he should have buried that no excuses.

I don't disagree that he should have buried that and cenk his header.... but that was it really. 2 chances. 

We are so poor that only against their 2nd team who were knackered and coasting we forged chances. 

We deserved nothing and got nothing. 

[seve]

Can not say how disappointed i am with this team and manager, We have lost our DNA its not an Everton style i recognize 

Even piss poor teams i have watched since the late 50s tried to play a certain way.

It was a poor liverpool 2nd team we played today, and our only thought was not to loose for 80 minuets then when they were dead on there feet we played to win, to little to late.

I would like someone to tell me why are we so slow and unfit, we have been off all week but we  sat back, never closed down, and never ran past anyone.

I have said it before there is something rotten at the core of EFC

[MikeO]

3 hours ago, MikeO said:

Turned it off.

 

2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Played like shite for most of the game, could’ve lost, then decided to play for the last bit of the game and looked brilliant and could’ve, and should’ve, won it. 

Everton. 

We started playing as soon as I tuned it off it seems; maybe I should stop watching completely? Strange because in the time since Josh got involved I've only ever witnessed one league loss at Goodison in the flesh; I need to relocate.

[Newty82]

3 hours ago, hafnia said:

I don't disagree that he should have buried that and cenk his header.... but that was it really. 2 chances. 

We are so poor that only against their 2nd team who were knackered and coasting we forged chances. 

We deserved nothing and got nothing. 

...we got a point...

 

Sorry. I'll leave.

[rubecula]

 

[markjazzbassist]

I can’t bear watching it rubes, what’s he say

[Romey 1878]

11 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

I can’t bear watching it rubes, what’s he say

Yada, yada, yada, Northern boys love gravy, yada, yada, yada, my subs were amazing.

[andyddgg]

I look at the positives. From the whole season all I see is; a passionate manager, 10 minutes of good football, the rest is dire.

 

[Loose]

5 minutes ago, andyddgg said:

I look at the positives. From the whole season all I see is; a passionate manager, 10 minutes of good football, the rest is dire.

 

Which of the three was passionate? I assume you mean Unsworth, because Allardyce's only passion is his bank account.

 

[Sir McGiven]

just give him a money in a suitcase and recorded it with a hidden cam, he'll leave... bunny and carrots.

[rubecula]

all very well getting rid of a manager so soon after getting him, but with a bit of patience we could soon reach WBA levels,  and maybe in a few managers time  (say about a season) we could arrive at as level where we challenge Villa.

 

Oh what is the use  we will never all be happy, there will always be a misery minded fan somewhere,

[Gwlad]

I agree Rubes. I want a good manager, a tactically aware manage, a passionate manager but what worries me is that from Moyes leaving 2013 if there's a new manager this year it will be 6 managers in 5 years. And if they get it wrong again...?

[markjazzbassist]

5 minutes ago, Gwlad all over said:

I agree Rubes. I want a good manager, a tactically aware manage, a passionate manager but what worries me is that from Moyes leaving 2013 if there's a new manager this year it will be 6 managers in 5 years. And if they get it wrong again...?

Man united hasn’t been any different after fergie, moyes gigs Van Gaal mou.  Sometimes it takes a while to find the right one.  I think after Martinez koeman unsy and sam that Moshiri et al should have a better understanding of how to pick one.

[Sir McGiven]

Man United can resist it a little bit longer with their global fan base, marketing power etc. In short, strong financial position. (Still, they can collapse like AC Milan in a couple years without any achievements tho) On the other hand, I don't even think Mou is their answer, so they are still not there yet IMO.

I doubt that Everton can survive that much, 6 managers in 5 years is not a good sign, it brings pressure on picking a new one as well because you know that you need a bullseye choice as soon as possible. Not himself, as it wouldn't have been easy to tempt him for Everton after his success on ECL, but a Klopp-like modernist manager who has something to prove, hungry to succeed would work at Everton with a proper budget (proper: as much as Everton can give, without any restrictions or deductions) to let him build the future. It's hard to see Fergie-like managers who can spend most of his career for one club nowadays but a proper one can imbue the club with a correct, proper ideas/ way of management etc.

I'm afraid other mentalities to pick a manager will be just short-term solutions.

[markjazzbassist]

18 minutes ago, Sir McGiven said:

Man United can resist it a little bit longer with their global fan base, marketing power etc. In short, strong financial position. (Still, they can collapse like AC Milan in a couple years without any achievements tho) On the other hand, I don't even think Mou is their answer, so they are still not there yet IMO.

I doubt that Everton can survive that much, 6 managers in 5 years is not a good sign, it brings pressure on picking a new one as well because you know that you need a bullseye choice as soon as possible. Not himself, as it wouldn't have been easy to tempt him for Everton after his success on ECL, but a Klopp-like modernist manager who has something to prove, hungry to succeed would work at Everton with a proper budget (proper: as much as Everton can give, without any restrictions or deductions) to let him build the future. It's hard to see Fergie-like managers who can spend most of his career for one club nowadays but a proper one can imbue the club with a correct, proper ideas/ way of management etc.

I'm afraid other mentalities to pick a manager will be just short-term solutions.

I think that is why the owner wants to go with the continental model of a sporting director.  They dictate the style of playa nd signings and pick the managers.  This ensures (in theory) consistency on the field and in transfer windows and all the way through the academy style of play.  If the manager is successful and leaves or bad and leaves it doesn’t change the whole club over night.  

 

I think Bill grew up around football his whole life so he in a sense could find a decent manager (moyes, Martinez) and knew what to look for.  Moshiri not so much, so he’s trusting the football professional (sporting director) to make those decisions.

 

Honestly I think that is smart, as long as he hires the right person.  Steve Walsh is not that person.  Marcel brands?  We will see soon enough.

[Sir McGiven]

4 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

I think that is why the owner wants to go with the continental model of a sporting director.  They dictate the style of playa nd signings and pick the managers.  This ensures (in theory) consistency on the field and in transfer windows and all the way through the academy style of play.  If the manager is successful and leaves or bad and leaves it doesn’t change the whole club over night.  

 

I think Bill grew up around football his whole life so he in a sense could find a decent manager (moyes, Martinez) and knew what to look for.  Moshiri not so much, so he’s trusting the football professional (sporting director) to make those decisions.

 

Honestly I think that is smart, as long as he hires the right person.  Steve Walsh is not that person.  Marcel brands?  We will see soon enough.

Personally, I'll never understand the role of DoF. I mean, I know what they do but couldn't understand all responsibilities... Why do they sign players?

I think a manager needs to know and be in charge of all aspects of his club, needs to be the person in charge of the transfers specifically after his primary duty by collaborating with the scout team. Leaving the transfers to an unrelated person (IMO, again), even though its said that they do that with managers, is bringing problems, conflicts...

They can act as a hub between the manager and the board, so the manager can focus more on the team and can be responsible for renewing contracts but that is all. That should be all.

I think I am a little bit old school when it comes to this but I wouldn't want a person roaming around and pry into my business.

[markjazzbassist]

9 hours ago, Sir McGiven said:

Personally, I'll never understand the role of DoF. I mean, I know what they do but couldn't understand all responsibilities... Why do they sign players?

I think a manager needs to know and be in charge of all aspects of his club, needs to be the person in charge of the transfers specifically after his primary duty by collaborating with the scout team. Leaving the transfers to an unrelated person (IMO, again), even though its said that they do that with managers, is bringing problems, conflicts...

They can act as a hub between the manager and the board, so the manager can focus more on the team and can be responsible for renewing contracts but that is all. That should be all.

I think I am a little bit old school when it comes to this but I wouldn't want a person roaming around and pry into my business.

honestly i get that, we've had the most success with moyes/martinez who were 1 man shows.  i also prefer this method.  but i was explaining why i think moshiri doesn't, simply put he's not that knowledgeable about the game and the front office so he's going with a DOF to make those decisions.

[Sir McGiven]

I do understand where you come from. He is a successful businessman, not a sporting director and because of that, he is in need of a CEO-like DoF to run the business on a daily basis, which is totally understandable from his point of view. It is another topic and also ungovernable fact in world's current market shape but that's why businessmen should have never been involved in football. Because I have never adapted myself to new modern football industry. I'm still looking from a perspective of an 80's, 90's football fan where a player doesn't worth a money which can feed the kids in any country in Africa for 10 years or without any ethics involved, where there is not much gap between clubs' finances.

You know, when there is one person in charge which is a manager, your decision either can be good or bad. When there is one other person, which is DoF, first your decision needs to be accurate on him then you can expect him to be accurate in the decision of the right manager. Either way, fans are the true sufferers. The businessman can sell his shares and leave, DoF can be sacked/resigned, same applies to the manager where both will be paid no matter what. But the fans... They'll be always there, no leaving involved. The fans, the ones who generate match day and commercial product incomes, who cannot turn into a Red after growing up as a Blue, who will hand down the team's culture and history to the next generations, to his/her descendants.

Yes, there are pros and cons of hiring a DoF, I am also not saying hiring a DoF is not totally rubbish. For example, a DoF can lessen the burden on the manager. Handles the contract renewals or negotiations with potential transfers, etc... So the manager can focus on the team. Still, I think there should be certain job descriptions between DoF and the manager to avoid the power struggle. Otherwise, it will not work and a high risk to take.

In Everton case, that's why I am unsure if a DoF or new DoF is the answer or not. If new DoF doesn't fit, means most likely his judgment on the new manager will not fit as well. Is Everton ready to waste another 1 and 2 years to shape up both mentally and financially?

 

[MikeO]

I want some of what Garth Crooks is smoking, from team of the week...

"Seamus Coleman: It's great to see Seamus Coleman flying down the flank for Everton again after suffering that awful injury. The Ireland full-back looks like he's back to his best and posed Liverpool their greatest threat, along with Yannick Bolasie, down their right side."

What?

[Romey 1878]

Just now, MikeO said:

I want some of what Garth Crooks is smoking, from team of the week...

"Seamus Coleman: It's great to see Seamus Coleman flying down the flank for Everton again after suffering that awful injury. The Ireland full-back looks like he's back to his best and posed Liverpool their greatest threat, along with Yannick Bolasie, down their right side."

What?

I think he’s only looked good in his comeback game tbh. Poor otherwise.