Longest Thread For Drivel (or the Romelu Lukaku thread)

[Paddock]

I think he's using the lack of ambition as an out and Inalso think he's been tapped up.

 

Just my personal opinion on it though.

[nyblue23]

Really nothing wrong with what he said, but definitely scary. The thing is, if we lose a player like Lukaku because of his perception that the club's ambition is not great enough, it doesn't bode well for our ability to draw other top-tier strikers.

 

Additionally, those complaining that being concerned about his departure is putting one man in front of the rest of the team are forgetting that our attackers and midfield have more or less been built around Lukaku's strengths. We don't have wingers, attacking mids or dcms who are adept at scoring. We have a bunch of midfielders who like to play passes into space which Lukaku maneuvers into, or to whip crosses or cutbacks into the center of the box where Lukaku is literally the only one ever waiting for them. The scary part about losing him is not that one man is bigger than the team, but that we rely on a certain mold of striker so much for goals that we need at least three attackers with different styles of play to compensate for the structure of our squad if we lose him. It'd be nice to have the type of squad where goals can come from any player like an Arsenal or redshite, but that's not our squad.

[Newty82]

Lowensda...the whole point I'm making is that we should do it for the club as a whole and it's fans, not for one player.

 

The club is more than one player. If Moshiri and Co has real ambition, it should be for the club as a whole, not for one player.

 

Of course the ambition is to win trophies. That's the ambition of most clubs (not all...a lot just want to survive...although I'm sure the ultimate ambition is to win something along the way!). But you want it to satisfy the club as a whole, and it's fans, not just one player.

 

I've no issues with Lukaku wanting to win things etc. He's a player, they have short careers and all that. But I'm not sure he goes on about it because he cares about the direction of the club. I don't think he cares where he is at, so long as he has the best chance of winning a cup and going down in history as a trophy winner!

 

Again, we should want to win things as a club because we want to be that club that wins things, not to satisfy the needs of one single player who, let's be honest, only seems to be thinking about his own legacy. It's a tough point to get across on a phone screen I think...it's not meant to be a slant towards Lukaku, more of a....I dunno! I'm struggling to find the right words...maybe MikeO will make sense of it for me!!!

[Newty82]

Nyblue23...it's not our squad now because we dont the need it to be. Koeman has set us up to get the best out of the players at his disposal. IF, big IF and like everything the last couple of days, it's all hypothetical, Lukaku was to go, you don't believe that Koeman and his coaching staff have the capabilities to buy in players and adjust styles to suit?

 

And, by the way, no one's complaining that I can see. It's all just passing comments and thoughts, pondering out loud so to speak. This is the place to be to think out loud!!!

[Lowensda]

Lowensda...the whole point I'm making is that we should do it for the club as a whole and it's fans, not for one player.

I agree, but if we did start doing well, are you going to give the credit to Lukaku? Doubt it. So I highly doubt the club are pinning their entire business strategy on a young striker because 'he said so' in an interview.

 

The club is more than one player. If Moshiri and Co has real ambition, it should be for the club as a whole, not for one player.

See above

Of course the ambition is to win trophies. That's the ambition of most clubs (not all...a lot just want to survive...although I'm sure the ultimate ambition is to win something along the way!). But you want it to satisfy the club as a whole, and it's fans, not just one player.

See above - Now you're just repeating yourself

 

I've no issues with Lukaku wanting to win things etc. He's a player, they have short careers and all that. But I'm not sure he goes on about it because he cares about the direction of the club. I don't think he cares where he is at, so long as he has the best chance of winning a cup and going down in history as a trophy winner!

I think he proved that's not the case when he left Chelsea for Everton.

 

Again, we should want to win things as a club because we want to be that club that wins things, not to satisfy the needs of one single player who, let's be honest, only seems to be thinking about his own legacy. It's a tough point to get across on a phone screen I think...it's not meant to be a slant towards Lukaku, more of a....I dunno! I'm struggling to find the right words...maybe MikeO will make sense of it for me!!!

Bloody hell man. See first response!

I highly doubt it. He doesn't make sense of his own posts

Edited March 16, 2017 by Lowensda

[Hafnia]

The comparison is that you said he's hell bent on proving a point on Kane when he's clearly wrong (no idea if he has or hasn't tbh) and you are exactly the same over Lukaku. Valid points or not, you're hell bent on proving your point on your opinion of him and in my opinion, you're wrong or at best hugely over critical of him.

My "opinion" of him isn't the point- it's my critiquing of him. I actually critique lukaku - i may not see this super player that many of you do - i at least give rationale of what I see and provide examples or comparisons.

 

I'm not he'll bent on being right - I'm passionate about my points being taken with the validity that the facts and examples give credibility to.

 

Far too often this thread has been thrown into mayhem because I have the temerity to question a player who has the best goal stats we have seen for years... the fact that I use examples is irrelevant - he is the darling of many - and criticising him is met like you are committing treachery.

 

I have given specific examples of what I want to see him doing. Which was met with "well all I care about is him scoring".... then when he does show improvement in these regards it is met with "complete striker".... I thought that didn't matter???

 

The fact is people will defend him no matter what. Even when criticism of him is justified.

 

For me this latest episode is a farce... I'd like to understand how "everton lacking ambition" accounts for 0.00000001% of the contract being signed. Because unless my maths is wrong that's where we were not so long ago and now the ambition of thd club is a deal breaker.

 

All very convenient... he and his agent are trying to side with the fans in order to justify him not signing a new deal. Very clever but ultimately we are now at the business end of the season yet again with all talk being about Lukaku.

 

He will not be happy till he is playing for an elite name - nothing to do with ambition. The fact we signed 2 £20m+ players in the last 7 months is lost on him, as is the imminent news of a stadium announcement. He wants out and is using an argument that that will keep favour with some fans as an excuse.

 

Funny.... the same people who think lukaku is the main man for questioning the ambition of the board were content to have bobby and bill plod our club along.... but after signing a decent few players all the ambition can't come quick we enough... forget the 20 years of stagnation under the stewardship of someone from the boys pen.... less than one year under an Iranian is too long...

Edited March 16, 2017 by Hafnia

[Hafnia]

Can you just go through your views on Lukaku one more time. I'm not sure you've made them clear. *yawn

Probably need to repeat them in various guises for the likes of yourself.

[pete0]

Fuck me, you really do have a bee in your bonnet about needing to be proven right that Kane is a one season wonder don't you? If you can't see how Kane is a top player I'd suggest watching a different sport.

 

Lukaku could have looked at Kanes first goal against us and thought "I need to be able to do that". Take the ball back to goal - step out and turn and create the space to run and shoot. Alternatively he could just ask his team mates who were marking him about why he had them all over the place.

 

 

Not too much wrong with the interview in my book. He can just shut up now and get on with the season.

Haha you must be the only one who has given credit to him for that game, pretty sure we imploded at the back.

Lukaku scored a similar one against Bournmouth, hardly celebrated because it was a gift. Kane ran like a looney. Most people watch Kane and say he's bang average, over shoots, and wastes a lot of chances, but gets away with it because he'll score one. Fucking any striker would score in that team.

[Matt]

Edited March 16, 2017 by Matt

[Aidan]

This thread has the most useage of that meme in the history of the whole Internet!

[Hafnia]

Haha you must be the only one who has given credit to him for that game, pretty sure we imploded at the back.

Lukaku scored a similar one against Bournmouth, hardly celebrated because it was a gift. Kane ran like a looney. Most people watch Kane and say he's bang average, over shoots, and wastes a lot of chances, but gets away with it because he'll score one. Fucking any striker would score in that team.

Most people? Who?.... Alan Shearer has tipped him to break his premier league goal scoring record. He's at 19 goals despite missing 2 months of this season.

 

Unless you close your eyes when he is playing or have no clue about football you would be hard pushed not to say that he is a top quality striker.

 

Are you saying he's not a good striker? He probably scores more different types of goals than any other player in the league.

 

His all round game is top notch - touch, hold up play, movement, finishing with either foot from any distance.

 

His biggest attribute? He never let's his head go down.... he is in the game from the first minute till the last. He scores in big games against big teams for this very reason. No moaning, no gesturing, If he misses or his team mate doesn't pick him out he just goes again and again.

 

Then again just like your criticism of jagielka - you will fail to recognise any positives once you have nailed your colours to the mast.

[Lowensda]

Can we settle this. They're almost identical.

 

https://www.premierleague.com/players/3960/Harry-Kane/stats

 

https://www.premierleague.com/players/4290/Romelu-Lukaku/stats

 

Both have flaws. Both have great ability.

 

- One contributes more to the team (statistically) - Rom.

- One scores more on average a game - Kane.

- One has more diversity in the types of goals scored (Pens, outside box) - Kane.

- One has more diversity in body parts used to score - Rom. (Rom's goals scored with stronger foot: 49% / Kane's goals scored with stronger foot: 67%) - Sorry Haf.

 

They are statistically, as close as you can get.

[nutmegwolf203]

Honestly its about time someone from the club came out and said what all the fans are thinking, I'm happy he's done what hes done and said what he's said. Hopefully its puts lights the fire under their arses and we start showing the ambition that we all know we can achieve.

 

At no point did he say he wants to leave, although he didn't confirm he wants to stay. I think if we show him real ambition with high profile players in the summer then he will stay for at least another year.

 

I understand what you mean, but are you happy with the timing of his statements? I personally understand the tone and content of his comments, but I think he's being impatient; things are moving, after being at a standstill for ages. To be clear, I think he's being impatient with a process to overhaul a storied yet aging club in terms of football world philosophy. The club has done a lot for him, built a formation around him and will continue to do so as long as he's here. But that's just my opinion.

 

This article is level-headed and sums up my thoughts pretty well.

 

http://www.espnfc.com/club/everton/368/blog/post/3082902/romelu-lukaku-snub-comes-at-a-bad-time-for-everton-but-club-will-survive

 

Everton first

[pete0]

Most people? Who?.... Alan Shearer has tipped him to break his premier league goal scoring record. He's at 19 goals despite missing 2 months of this season.

 

Unless you close your eyes when he is playing or have no clue about football you would be hard pushed not to say that he is a top quality striker.

 

Are you saying he's not a good striker? He probably scores more different types of goals than any other player in the league.

 

His all round game is top notch - touch, hold up play, movement, finishing with either foot from any distance.

 

His biggest attribute? He never let's his head go down.... he is in the game from the first minute till the last. He scores in big games against big teams for this very reason. No moaning, no gesturing, If he misses or his team mate doesn't pick him out he just goes again and again.

 

Then again just like your criticism of jagielka - you will fail to recognise any positives once you have nailed your colours to the mast.

Did you watch The Spurs match. He scored in two errors. Never had a sniff otherwise. Runs around pointlessly, more often getting in the way than actually making space. Playing at Spurs who have arguable the most creative midfield in the league gives a massive advantage to Kane, but still he's only managed to score the same amount of goals as Lukaku.

 

How's Kane doing for England without Eriksen putting it on a plate and the opposition having to worry about the proper quality players?

[TOFFEEliscious]

I was watching NBCSN in america and they put up a league table without each teams' top scorer , so Everton without Lukaku goals, and Everton would've been 4th or even 3rd. I can't quite remember and have searched for it but can't find it so I don't have a link. Tottenham would fall to about 7th.

 

really made me think. Nobody is bigger than the team and sometimes when you lose a player you think it'll have a catastrophic effect on your team but it isn't always the case.

 

I didn't have too much a problem with the interview, but I didn't like near the end when he's asked about whether Everton are ambitious enough and he backslides and just say his job is on the pitch, ""to train and play, train and play,"" but to me you're talking out of both sides of your mouth in a somewhat passive aggressive way because on the other hand he's has come out and talked about the direction of the club and investment and bringing in new players. So he comes out and makes waves but then takes a back step.

 

maybe it's just a matter of poor timing, give Moshiri another year or two and Lukaku will fit in with Everton's "ambitions" better or vice versa. But will it happen quick enough for Rom?

 

He isn't the complete package but in the end he produces so I find myself never holding a grudge. His main job is to score and that he does.

[Shukes]

Anyone remember Gary Lineker?

Scored 30 in one season, then left.

 

How did we do the season after?

[Hafnia]

Did you watch The Spurs match. He scored in two errors. Never had a sniff otherwise. Runs around pointlessly, more often getting in the way than actually making space. Playing at Spurs who have arguable the most creative midfield in the league gives a massive advantage to Kane, but still he's only managed to score the same amount of goals as Lukaku.

 

How's Kane doing for England without Eriksen putting it on a plate and the opposition having to worry about the proper quality players?

He scored because of errors?

 

So when lukaku scored against spurs he made the centre half slip over rather than the centre half slipped?

 

Without errors there would be very little goals scored in the prem... nearly every goal gets analysed on sky and it will always be someone's fault - otherwise the goal wouldn't be scored.

 

For a player to have the ability to take a good powerful shot from distance if a defender backs off is as much to their credit as the defenders blame.

 

For a player to be alert to a mistake shows that they are tuned in - they anticipate. It's all part of the game.

 

Talking shite mate.

[aaron]

 

I understand what you mean, but are you happy with the timing of his statements? I personally understand the tone and content of his comments, but I think he's being impatient; things are moving, after being at a standstill for ages. To be clear, I think he's being impatient with a process to overhaul a storied yet aging club in terms of football world philosophy. The club has done a lot for him, built a formation around him and will continue to do so as long as he's here. But that's just my opinion.

 

This article is level-headed and sums up my thoughts pretty well.

 

http://www.espnfc.com/club/everton/368/blog/post/3082902/romelu-lukaku-snub-comes-at-a-bad-time-for-everton-but-club-will-survive

 

Everton first

Timing could come down to his agent twice spouting off "oh he's signing" in recent times, maybe Rom has done this as everyone just keeps asking him when is he signing and he's had enough of the questions, or maybe he doesn't want to lead the fans on that he is about to sign? I don't know, just like everyone else.

 

See I don't see him being impatient as such, how many times has Everton pissed us all off in the transfer market? We are still taking our time with everything, yes we are moving forward but an example is how long it took for us to sign Morgan, we missed out on targets such as Gabbidini. Last summer we only spent money once Stones was gone. I do fully understand what you mean by he is being impatient as we are heading forward, but at what pace?

 

I can see the argument for him using this as his "good guy" excuse for pushing through a transfer as well mind, I just thought I'd offer one possible side to all of this.

[pete0]

He scored because of errors?

 

So when lukaku scored against spurs he made the centre half slip over rather than the centre half slipped?

 

Without errors there would be very little goals scored in the prem... nearly every goal gets analysed on sky and it will always be someone's fault - otherwise the goal wouldn't be scored.

 

For a player to have the ability to take a good powerful shot from distance if a defender backs off is as much to their credit as the defenders blame.

 

For a player to be alert to a mistake shows that they are tuned in - they anticipate. It's all part of the game.

 

Talking shite mate.

Big difference was the defending was amateur. I said in the Tielemans thread you wouldn't score goals in the prem like that. Our defense should hang their heads in shame, but if you're impressed by hit and hopes I'm not gonna bother to argue.

[Newty82]

Anyone remember Gary Lineker?

Scored 30 in one season, then left.

 

How did we do the season after?

Are you trying to say that it is possible to sell your top marksman and still progress as a club?

 

I have my suspicions about you.

[Bill]

If you look at the post further up Lineker is mentioned, not only top scorers but top midfielders (Alan Ball) top goalies (Big Nev) top centre halfs (Ratcliffe).

We lose great players all the time, either through transfers or retirements, but the club has been around a long time and will still be here when he goes.

Put me in the "couldn't give a toss" category if he does go.

[Newty82]

Watch Koemans pre Hull interview.

 

He's not happy with Lukaku's interview, where he questions the clubs ambitions. He says he wouldn't be manager if the club didn't have ambition.

 

He also says he has spoken to Lukaku and told him his job is to be ready to play well and score goals, leave the rest to the manager and the board.

 

I absolutely 100% agree with this approach. Koeman ain't going to lick anyone's arse.

[Hafnia]

Big difference was the defending was amateur. I said in the Tielemans thread you wouldn't score goals in the prem like that. Our defense should hang their heads in shame, but if you're impressed by hit and hopes I'm not gonna bother to argue.

Hit and hopes? You mean take a shot - aim inside the post and hit it hard enough to trouble the keeper?

 

I think most finishes from strikers are done in the hope the keeper doesn't get to them whether they are 10 yards or 30 yards.

 

Are you trying to rewrite the rules of what constitutes a goal now? Did you not enjoy artetas hit and hope vs fiorentina? Or was his less hope and more pure skill?

[barryj]

Probably need to repeat them in various guises for the likes of yourself.

Dont bother as I just skip your Lukaku posts now. I've read your same point over many different threads over the past few years........I GET IT!! Arghhh

(To balance - Other posts you do on different subjects are interesting and can be a good read.)

[markjazzbassist]

Watch Koemans pre Hull interview.

 

He's not happy with Lukaku's interview, where he questions the clubs ambitions. He says he wouldn't be manager if the club didn't have ambition.

 

He also says he has spoken to Lukaku and told him his job is to be ready to play well and score goals, leave the rest to the manager and the board.

 

I absolutely 100% agree with this approach. Koeman ain't going to lick anyone's arse.

 

"rom lad, shut yer yap before i shut it for you"

[pete0]

Hit and hopes? You mean take a shot - aim inside the post and hit it hard enough to trouble the keeper?

 

I think most finishes from strikers are done in the hope the keeper doesn't get to them whether they are 10 yards or 30 yards.

 

Are you trying to rewrite the rules of what constitutes a goal now? Did you not enjoy artetas hit and hope vs fiorentina? Or was his less hope and more pure skill?

I'd argue there was more to it. Ibrahimovic's has a skill for it, Kane is more a Gerrard. Hit enough and one will go in. More often than not you'd be better off passing it.

[Hafnia]

I'd argue there was more to it. Ibrahimovic's has a skill for it, Kane is more a Gerrard. Hit enough and one will go in. More often than not you'd be better off passing it.

Gerrard? I think kane would be delighted with that. One of the best strikers from distance ive seen

[pete0]

Gerrard? I think kane would be delighted with that. One of the best strikers from distance ive seen

You must love MOTD.

[Hafnia]

You must love MOTD.

I think you are trying to be more acute than the topic allows.

 

Gerrard simply put - had an insane ability to test the keeper or score from 25 yards with ease.

 

How many fuckin times did you see him do it to us, to the mancs, European opponents, cup finals.

 

The number of corners he won from such shots wasn't shabby. I honestly don't know where you get your stuff from at times.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Huge difference - pete0 called kane a one season wonder. Refused to accept that he has any positives other than playing for a good team.

 

I have on numerous occasions said that Lukaku will always score goals- he's a natural finisher and a supreme athlete.

 

I have called him out on several things mainly:

 

Touch and ability to retain the ball

Work ethic and movement off the ball - wastes his athletic gifts too often

Attitude- no hunger in some games.

Detachment from Everton.

 

I have been specific to the point that of repetition where I believe he let's himself down - but when he improves or shows willingness to do the more dirty work I give him the right recognition.

 

The fact that I don't rate him as highly as most does the mean I dont think he's good. His record speaks for itself but I believe on many occasions he has short changed himself and most critically the fans.

 

He talks about being the best striker in the world or trying to be... I for one don't think he's near that. He lacks the technical aptitude to get to that level - so does kane ironically.

 

What they both can be and kane has worked hard at being is the best of the rest. Both very good and cool in front of goal.

 

Rom has the athletic edge - Kane has the intelligence/work ethic/desire. For me that makes me rank kane as the best option for any club given the choice of either player.

 

But no... there is absolutely no comparison to me and PeteO in our criticisms of a player. Pete steadfastly refuses to give praise even when it's right there in front of him be it jags or kane.

I agree with you on one point you're definitely repetitive [emoji14]