Ross Barkley

[StevO]

He's played one bad game in five and the world is falling apart. I can't believe half the junk I've read in here. The lad needs a bit of help from his manager, which I'm sure he'll get, then be back on form. All of our other attacking players have blown hot and cold all through their Everton careers, why do we expect Ross to be any different? So many people writing off what is one of our most gifted players, and one who for the first time we don't have to sell and doesn't want to leave. I wonder what difference it would make to Ross if the whole fan base actually got behind him and gave him a break once in a while?

[Hafnia]

The way I see it is the same theory of injuries. You need to be fit to score goals. Sturridge could be a 20 goal plus striker a season, but he's always injured, so for me he's not a good player.

 

Taking in consideration Barkleys mentality and mind set, he's not a good player, because he will never be confident and play his natural game if pressure is on him.

 

Football is all about pressure and confidence, if you can't cope with pressure or you're not confident then you're not a good footballer overall, ross.

Pressure and confidence? This lad had been told his career was practically over at 16... he built himself back up.

 

He then gets his dream debut against QPR and looks a star.... the next game he makes a couple of mistakes and the moyesosaurus drags him off and we see naff all of him again.

 

He gets loaned out to play for yard dog managers. Gets back in and only towards moyes leaving gets a game in central midfield and runs the show against Arsenal. Having been played in moyes favourite position to destroy players... right midfield (see Naismith, Aj, Rodwell)

 

Martinez comes in and to be fair the lad looks class. Confident and has a cracking season.maetinez gives him the platform and encouragement he needed. It gets him a call up to go the world cup and the prick hodgson destroys him. He comes back a shell of the player we seen at the end of the season.

 

Two years on... rinse and repeat.

 

Fans have a lot to answer for with this kid. Most players would have fucked off by now in his shoes.

 

Character? I think you sell the lad short. I think he has plenty of bottle, it's just a pity he doesn't get looked after.

 

It's fine to critique a player on a forum, i'd never give shit to a player at the game.... this lad is the only one who gets it. Fuckin wrong.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Hafnia

[barryj]

Top post haf and StevO I hope that wasn't aimed at me! I stand by the fact I believe that was Barkleys worst half I've ever seen him play and I have a right to be able say that. I want nothing more for him to perform and stick it to big Sam. However I'm not going to come on here and post he played well when he had an absolute shocker (watch it back it really was that bad). Poor bloke is devoid of confidence at the moment and that was seen when he was in a couple of good shooting positions but choose a (poor) pass.

Edited September 15, 2016 by barryj

[Shukes]

Can't disagree more, if there is one player who lives and breathes the club its Ross. When I have seen him play you can see the desire to win, to play well for the club and the fans. That's half the problem, sometimes he tries too hard, he doesn't relax and play his natural game.

 

He needs to improve his consistency, but now he has a coach who I believe can develop him. He is a young player and there will be ups and downs. He has only had one bad game in 5. Lets encourage him and get behined him, as he is very much a confidence player. If we don't then we risk forcing him away or harming his development.

 

Lets not forget he was very good in the first 4 games, 2 goals and an assist.

I'm behind him 100%.

There isn't a single player I would rather succeed more. Love the lad.

 

But I see it a bit differently that's all.

I see him get tackled, stand up and jog back, rather than fight to make up for it.

I see defenders step past with whole looking for a pass, because they ate confident he won't put too much pressure on them.

 

I want to see him look aggrieved when he is tackled, I want to see him chasing back to make up for losing balls.

I want to see him chasing down players looking for that pass.

 

Ross always looks best when a player shoulders into him and he starts running.

 

It shouldn't take that to start him though.

 

I love Ross as a player, I really do and want him to he a world beater.

But we're running out of his break through seasons.

 

He has played good so far this season, but nothing other. Same as the whole team to be fair.

There is a fine line between winning and losing in the premier and we are all seeing that now. Have we really been good or are we just a touch more resilient now?

[StevO]

Wasn't aimed at you Barry. He did have a very poor half, couldn't agree more. I just wish our whole fan base, not just on TT, got behind the lad. It seems like after one or two bad games we get some people writing him off.

 

Shukes I agree with a lot of what you're saying, apart from why do we need a break out season? The lad has been playing good enough to be in a premier league team for three years. He has already broken out, he isn't going to just come back one summer and we a superstar. He can improve his game no doubt, but you can't expect him to suddenly become world class. He just needs to stay on an upward curve. He has shown many flashes of brilliance in his short career, but we can't expect that every week.

[Cook My Sock]

For A Homegrown Talent, He Does Get A Lot Of Unwarranted Abuse At Games.

 

For Other Teams, Homegrown Players Are Heralded Like Gods, Even When They're Not Playing Well. "___ Can Do No Wrong, He's A Local Lad"

 

I Despise The Abuse. He Needs Support. Whether That's Off The Field Or On It.

 

Separate Note (Similar Topic). Did Anyone Know That Yannick Bolasie Had A Series Of Psychology Sessions In Order To Make Him Believe That He WAS A Top Division Player? True Story.

[Bill]

Sometimes he deserves the criticism, I've been saying for years that he can't tackle to save his life, and never hurries back if he loses the ball.

That tells me he's not a winner, he should be fighting for every ball and tackling everybody on the pitch to get it back.

 

What you see below my post is what it takes to be a winner.

[Hafnia]

Sometimes he deserves the criticism, I've been saying for years that he can't tackle to save his life, and never hurries back if he loses the ball.

That tells me he's not a winner, he should be fighting for every ball and tackling everybody on the pitch to get it back.

 

What you see below my post is what it takes to be a winner.

 

Not tracking back is not defendable, him not going into big tackles is understandable. He had a double leg break, had to learn how to walk properly again etc.

 

Like another big lad in our team, I think he grew too big too quick and never had to be aggressive in order to win the ball against lads of his same age.

 

Gerrard on the other hand was a late developer and needed to grow, but he already had acquired his level of aggression in order to compete which stayed with him.

[Bill]

There must be hundreds if not thousands of players who have had broken legs but never used it as an excuse not to tackle.

This is going to be a season that could make or break his career, he now has a manager that won't tolerate less than 100% effort so he has to decide if he wants to be in the team or on the bench.

He either has to knuckle down and fight for his place or stand the chance of being moved on, I'll be interested to see how he responds.

[Hafnia]

There must be hundreds if not thousands of players who have had broken legs but never used it as an excuse not to tackle.

This is going to be a season that could make or break his career, he now has a manager that won't tolerate less than 100% effort so he has to decide if he wants to be in the team or on the bench.

He either has to knuckle down and fight for his place or stand the chance of being moved on, I'll be interested to see how he responds.

 

a double break?

 

read these names and you tell me if players "recover" - and fly around making tackles....

 

Luc Nilis

Kieron Dyer

Alan Smith

Henrik Larsson

Eduardo

David Buust

Djibril Cisse

Aaron Ramsey - become a different player, 3 years it took him to get over the mental effect of the injury

 

 

the last one was Luke Shaw who had a double break.

[Shukes]

Wasn't aimed at you Barry. He did have a very poor half, couldn't agree more. I just wish our whole fan base, not just on TT, got behind the lad. It seems like after one or two bad games we get some people writing him off.

 

Shukes I agree with a lot of what you're saying, apart from why do we need a break out season? The lad has been playing good enough to be in a premier league team for three years. He has already broken out, he isn't going to just come back one summer and we a superstar. He can improve his game no doubt, but you can't expect him to suddenly become world class. He just needs to stay on an upward curve. He has shown many flashes of brilliance in his short career, but we can't expect that every week.

Agree StevO.

 

I do expect too much at times, due to hos potential to become a world class player.

He has the technical ability to.

 

Every touch he takes

..i take with him.

I want him to be our star so much.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Shukes

[Bill]

You done well to mention 8 or 9 Haf whereas I said hundreds or thousands.

I understand how it must have affected him but that was many years ago.

 

He now has to decide if he wants to pack it all in or continue his career as a footballer, it's OK showing a bit of skill now and again but if he doesn't improve his all round game he might well be left on the bench or be moved on, it's up to him.

 

Koeman could start with the team who played second half, or he could introduce Valencia into Barkley's position. He's got to work to keep his position now, because we have several other alteratives.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Bill

[Matt]

You done well to mention 8 or 9 Haf whereas I said hundreds or thousands.

I understand how it must have affected him but that was many years ago.

 

He now has to decide if he wants to pack it all in or continue his career as a footballer, it's OK showing a bit of skill but if he doesn't improve his all round game he might be moved on, it's up to him.

 

Koeman might start with the team who played second half, or he could introduce Valencia into Barkley's position. He's got to work to keep his position now, because we have several other alteratives.

You understand how it affected a 16/17 year old who was on the cusp of breaking through the ranks of the club he loves and had to learn how to walk again let alone play the game? You should go into psychiatry then mate, you'd make a fortune!

 

He has to decide if he wants to pack it in?! Why, because he had 1 poor outing? This thread gets more and more weird as it goes on...

 

He has needed what others have needed - decent competition for his starting place, because under Martinez (along with 2 others at least) he was allowed to do what he wanted without repercussions and no chance of being dropped. I agree, he has to work harder now but that I have no doubt of; afterall he brought himself back from a triple leg break so he's clearly not afraid of hard work and doesn't lack determination. What he and some others have needed is basic management behind them, and we'll see the lad improve game after game.

 

I still can't believe anyone thought he was lazy either, he was over-enthusiastic and that lead to mistakes. He was told it was on him for the England spot, he was told to lead following the captaincy in the cup, and he is desperate to play for the club. Maybe it was too much adrenaline, maybe too much responsibility too quick.

 

Oh, and lets not forget one of the best arguments of all - he's 22 fucking years old! He has soooo much time to learn and improve.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Matt

[StevO]

Matt talking complete sense.

[Matt]

Matt talking complete sense.

first time for everything

[Hafnia]

You understand how it affected a 16/17 year old who was on the cusp of breaking through the ranks of the club he loves and had to learn how to walk again let alone play the game? You should go into psychiatry then mate, you'd make a fortune!

 

He has to decide if he wants to pack it in?! Why, because he had 1 poor outing? This thread gets more and more weird as it goes on...

 

He has needed what others have needed - decent competition for his starting place, because under Martinez (along with 2 others at least) he was allowed to do what he wanted without repercussions and no chance of being dropped. I agree, he has to work harder now but that I have no doubt of; afterall he brought himself back from a triple leg break so he's clearly not afraid of hard work and doesn't lack determination. What he and some others have needed is basic management behind them, and we'll see the lad improve game after game.

 

I still can't believe anyone thought he was lazy either, he was over-enthusiastic and that lead to mistakes. He was told it was on him for the England spot, he was told to lead following the captaincy in the cup, and he is desperate to play for the club. Maybe it was too much adrenaline, maybe too much responsibility too quick.

 

Oh, and lets not forget one of the best arguments of all - he's 22 fucking years old! He has soooo much time to learn and improve.

 

in the words of MJB - "spot on".

 

If he didn't care - I would have an issue with the lad. I actually think he cares too much. I state this with absolute 100% certainty - that along with Naismith in his early days at Everton - Barkley is the only player to get audible stick off the fans. How would that make him feel?

 

Not once have I heard the lad interviewed despite having hype etc about him where he has indicated he wanted to move. He could have got a move at the end of the 2014 season - absolutely no question. My fear was that if we sold him for £40m that he could easily be worth £70m in no time....

 

yet here we are putting him in the skip because he had one "bad" game. He has often had games where he doesn't quite spark - but "bad" - no, not for me. Like Bolassie, the lad makes the opposition play differently, they double up on him (watch if anyone doesn't believe me).

 

Put it this way - if he was related to me I would be telling him to get away from this club. Its gotten ridiculous the expectations on him. The majority of Liverpool fans I speak to would have him in a heartbeat - not even up to question.

[Aidan]

Pressure and confidence? This lad had been told his career was practically over at 16... he built himself back up.

 

He then gets his dream debut against QPR and looks a star.... the next game he makes a couple of mistakes and the moyesosaurus drags him off and we see naff all of him again.

 

He gets loaned out to play for yard dog managers. Gets back in and only towards moyes leaving gets a game in central midfield and runs the show against Arsenal. Having been played in moyes favourite position to destroy players... right midfield (see Naismith, Aj, Rodwell)

 

Martinez comes in and to be fair the lad looks class. Confident and has a cracking season.maetinez gives him the platform and encouragement he needed. It gets him a call up to go the world cup and the prick hodgson destroys him. He comes back a shell of the player we seen at the end of the season.

 

Two years on... rinse and repeat.

 

Fans have a lot to answer for with this kid. Most players would have fucked off by now in his shoes.

 

Character? I think you sell the lad short. I think he has plenty of bottle, it's just a pity he doesn't get looked after.

 

It's fine to critique a player on a forum, i'd never give shit to a player at the game.... this lad is the only one who gets it. Fuckin wrong.

I guess we will have to see. He's built himself up after his injury but had nowhere near as much weight on his shoulders.

 

I'd never book him at a game, in fact I've never boo'd anyone at a game other than Martinez.

 

I want him to succeed in really do, but if I had to I'd put money on him not doing.

[Hafnia]

You done well to mention 8 or 9 Haf whereas I said hundreds or thousands.

I understand how it must have affected him but that was many years ago.

 

He now has to decide if he wants to pack it all in or continue his career as a footballer, it's OK showing a bit of skill now and again but if he doesn't improve his all round game he might well be left on the bench or be moved on, it's up to him.

 

Koeman could start with the team who played second half, or he could introduce Valencia into Barkley's position. He's got to work to keep his position now, because we have several other alteratives.

 

sorry Bill - hundreds or thousands? I don't think statto would be able to name 10 players lets alone 100 players who broke their legs and had a great career afterwards....

 

question.... if he was built like David Silva or Santi Corzola would you expect him to be snapping into tackles? after all he's the same type of player realistically. Did Southampton fans berate Matt Letissier because he wasn't like Bryan Robson?

 

I have no doubt that Barkley would be a different and better player if he never had that horrendous leg break. The fact is that he did - he's fortunate that he's a gifted technical player and not a yard dog like a Lee Cattermole or Robbie Savage.

[Hafnia]

I guess we will have to see. He's built himself up after his injury but had nowhere near as much weight on his shoulders.

 

I'd never book him at a game, in fact I've never boo'd anyone at a game other than Martinez.

 

I want him to succeed in really do, but if I had to I'd put money on him not doing.

 

you say he's had no weight on his shoulders?

 

the lad has had far too much expectations - when you know that the likes of Wayne Rooney and Gerrard have taken time out to try and help him deal with the expectations of local fans it says a lot.

[Bill]

 

 

Oh, and lets not forget one of the best arguments of all - he's 22 fucking years old! He has soooo much time to learn and improve.

Matt, I won't go into all the other words in your thread just this one.

It's not the best argument it the best excuse.

He's been playing since he eight, a broken leg at 16, he's been playing continually for us or on loan for the last six years so don't use that "he's only 22years old and he's still learning" excuse, we make that excuse with many players who are not playing well.
22 year old !! If he doesn't know how to play by now he might as well change careers.

[Hafnia]

Matt, I won't go into all the other words in your thread just this one.

 

It's not the best argument it the best excuse.

 

He's been playing since he eight, a broken leg at 16, he's been playing continually for us or on loan for the last six years so don't use that "he's only 22years old and he's still learning" excuse, we make that excuse with many players who are not playing well.

22 year old !! If he doesn't know how to play by now he might as well change careers.

 

In the last 6 years - when have you seen him be the midfielder who runs around snapping into tackles? Never. Before his injury he was a midfield general - ran the show, box to box making tackles the lot.

 

You either accept him as the type of player who is going to be a ball playing, creative midfielder who has other players who get the ball and feed him or you don't.

 

Do we expect Gueye to be a pass picker, a dribbler, someone who can lash it with either foot from 25 yards? - no. His job is to break up play and pass it simple.

 

so Ross has a bad game where things don't come off for him? he had a comparable season to the superstar deli ali last season despite our team being poor. and all of a sudden he's getting grief.

 

ridiculous. Should move to spurs Ross.

[Matt]

Matt, I won't go into all the other words in your thread just this one.

 

It's not the best argument it the best excuse.

 

He's been playing since he eight, a broken leg at 16, he's been playing continually for us or on loan for the last six years so don't use that "he's only 22years old and he's still learning" excuse, we make that excuse with many players who are not playing well.

22 year old !! If he doesn't know how to play by now he might as well change careers.

Well then you could write off 90% of players under 23 then, they all make mistakes and have ups and downs. The age defence is completely valid and is not an easy excuse in the slightest.

 

He missed an entire year following that break (looking things up, doctors told him he probably wouldn't play again), and playing the game as an 8 year old is a little different than playing in the league. Then throw in loan stints where Warnock et al. did their best to bring him down to a League 1 player. But despite all that, he's gone on to play for club and country, and has 10-12 years of a promising career ahead. Why would he want to change from that?!

[Matt]

Looking into the history of his injury, it's interesting how much credit he gives Moyes

[Matt]

 

In the last 6 years - when have you seen him be the midfielder who runs around snapping into tackles? Never. Before his injury he was a midfield general - ran the show, box to box making tackles the lot.

 

You either accept him as the type of player who is going to be a ball playing, creative midfielder who has other players who get the ball and feed him or you don't.

 

Do we expect Gueye to be a pass picker, a dribbler, someone who can lash it with either foot from 25 yards? - no. His job is to break up play and pass it simple.

 

so Ross has a bad game where things don't come off for him? he had a comparable season to the superstar deli ali last season despite our team being poor. and all of a sudden he's getting grief.

 

ridiculous. Should move to spurs Ross.

Exactly, every player is there to perform a specific funciton, not many.

[Bill]

A lot of arguments to contest there so I won't bother.

 

Box to box player Haf, midfield general roaring into tackles ?? that must have been in school if it was before his injury.

 

I hope to fuck he pulls it round, but he's got to start working at it.

[Hafnia]

Exactly, every player is there to perform a specific funciton, not many.

 

To be clear though - I do not accept him jogging around, not pressing or allowing men to get past him, I expect him to work hard.

 

yeah - he isn't going to be doing 50/50 tackles but he can make his presence felt.

 

At times he doesn't do this - and it is not acceptable

[Hafnia]

A lot of arguments to contest there so I won't bother.

 

Box to box player Haf, midfield general roaring into tackles ?? that must have been in school if it was before his injury.

 

I hope to fuck he pulls it round, but he's got to start working at it.

 

No it was for all the youth teams and reserves - Cahill stated him as the most talented player he had played with and this was before his injury and way before his debut.

[barryj]

 

a double break?

 

read these names and you tell me if players "recover" - and fly around making tackles....

 

Luc Nilis

Kieron Dyer

Alan Smith

Henrik Larsson

Eduardo

David Buust

Djibril Cisse

Aaron Ramsey - become a different player, 3 years it took him to get over the mental effect of the injury

 

 

the last one was Luke Shaw who had a double break.

You can add me to the list too! I had a double break (tib and fib) aged 11 and I never really recovered. I still put my foot into a tackle though as I believe you can be worse off it being committed.

[MC11]

For me nowhere near good enough at the moment. Not aggressive enough, takes far too much time deciding on his next pass.

 

Koemans comments today are interesting "we both agree his best position is in midfield" not sure what to make of that!

[markjazzbassist]

For me nowhere near good enough at the moment. Not aggressive enough, takes far too much time deciding on his next pass.

 

Koemans comments today are interesting "we both agree his best position is in midfield" not sure what to make of that!

 

he said that because a reporter asked whether that's his best position since he's also played on the wing and in a deeper role. RK goes on to say they spoke in preseason and agreed he is best in the midfield as the 10 or one of the holding midfield players. RK says great players can usually play elsewhere but this is his best position. nothing in it really MC.

 

he also said "his position is to be the key player between the defenders and strikers, to create, but also defensively to be part of the team" direct quote. i thought that bold part was very damning for Ross but also very true.

Edited September 15, 2016 by markjazzbassist