pete0 Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 The key attribute you want in defending is consistency. It's all and well seeing the odd game where Johnny looks like a rolls royce, and when he has those games he's impressive. Unfortunately Johnny goes asleep Yobo style, can't afford that. For me a player of his age, and wage needs moving on. We have alcaraz and stones as cover. The only conistantcy problem Heitinga had was a shit boss who consistently dropped him for players who didn't deserve their spot. Defenders need a proper run in the team you can't blame a centre half for being off pace in the 10 mins he plays every 3 games, absolutly rediculous. As for mistakes that's just bullshit, Jags is just as culpable just his partners tend to sweep up the mess, they look worse as he doesn't return the favour. How often did Heitinga or Yobo make last ditch tackles, not very as they've already cut out the threat. Jags-Distin is the worst p/ship we've had the club. Oh, but Yobo tied his shoes that one time.. how about that time the club went 18 games w/o a clean sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 The only conistantcy problem Heitinga had was a shit boss who consistently dropped him for players who didn't deserve their spot. Defenders need a proper run in the team you can't blame a centre half for being off pace in the 10 mins he plays every 3 games, absolutly rediculous. As for mistakes that's just bullshit, Jags is just as culpable just his partners tend to sweep up the mess, they look worse as he doesn't return the favour. How often did Heitinga or Yobo make last ditch tackles, not very as they've already cut out the threat. Jags-Distin is the worst p/ship we've had the club. Oh, but Yobo tied his shoes that one time.. how about that time the club went 18 games w/o a clean sheet. agree with most of that, but to say Jags&Distin is the worst partnership is silly in my opinion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Its not like Hietinga was just making a few costly errors, he was getting completely dominated / bullied by the likes of Grant Holt, Carlton Cole and Kone. Jags and Distin are not only far better defensively than him but they also have a bit of pace whereas Johnny always looks like he is running in quick sand and so for me its a no brainer that both should be getting picked ahead of him. Its no coincidence that neither Moyes nor Martinez will put him in ahead of them Steve_E 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 agree with most of that, but to say Jags&Distin is the worst partnership is silly in my opinion... What first choice pairings have been worse? Stubbs-Yobo is the only one I can think, but they only played together if Weir was injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Its not like Hietinga was just making a few costly errors, he was getting completely dominated / bullied by the likes of Grant Holt, Carlton Cole and Kone. Jags and Distin are not only far better defensively than him but they also have a bit of pace whereas Johnny always looks like he is running in quick sand and so for me its a no brainer that both should be getting picked ahead of him. Its no coincidence that neither Moyes nor Martinez will put him in ahead of them Yea, because we all know less than Moyes. RM for now is using Moyes' team, he's probably spent more time on fitness than tactics with the players so far, as the season progresses Johnny will get his chance and take it. As for the Kone disaster, it's no surprise he beat Johnny for pace, surprising is Moyes' decision to bring him in for that match alone. Defensively better how? As all 3 are shit at heading and the only other attribute they comfortably beat Heitinga is pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Johnny and Distin were superb together. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 What first choice pairings have been worse? Stubbs-Yobo is the only one I can think, but they only played together if Weir was injured.thats a good question actually! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Its not like Hietinga was just making a few costly errors, he was getting completely dominated / bullied by the likes of Grant Holt, Carlton Cole and Kone. Jags and Distin are not only far better defensively than him but they also have a bit of pace whereas Johnny always looks like he is running in quick sand and so for me its a no brainer that both should be getting picked ahead of him. Its no coincidence that neither Moyes nor Martinez will put him in ahead of them Johnny's game has never involved pace he has always been a master of reading the game so he would never of got himself into that position were it would be a foot race as am sure he knows more than anyone he would lose. He is very much like Weir in the way that he never relies on pace. There's a reason as to why Distin has to play next to Jags, Jags is prone to errors more so than Johnny and quite a lot of the time due to Distins pace he gets Jags out of jail. Distin and Heitinga is the best partnership we have hands down. pete0, Matt and SimonButtle 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Johnny's game has never involved pace he has always been a master of reading the game so he would never of got himself into that position were it would be a foot race as am sure he knows more than anyone he would lose. He is very much like Weir in the way that he never relies on pace Benteke at home last year and Kone away. Kept coming tight to them and got torn a new one with the slightest change in speed. Think Johnny needs to get to specsavers because I don't think he reads the game as well as you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Benteke at home last year and Kone away. Kept coming tight to them and got torn a new one with the slightest change in speed. Think Johnny needs to get to specsavers because I don't think he reads the game as well as you think. Talking about in the majority. There will be occasions when every defender will get beaten at some point. I just feel Johnnys are more highlighted than Jags and quite often unfairly. When Jags makes a mistake and Johnnys plays next to him people often don't see Jags error just Johnnys alleged error 'not in right position' 'beaten for pace again' when in fact it's quite often Jags initial error that causes the problems. Jags must love playing with Distin as he his get out of jail free card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 I think there needs to be a balance here. Johnny has a bit of a cult status, the hard man, technical footballer thing going on. For me he is a very good passer of the ball with a good dig on him. In the air he is poor, speed wise he's the slowest of the 3. I think heitinga represents more risk. I do like him but yes, I think of the 3 he's last in line. Jags is a better man marker and distin is the best for recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 I remember a certain moyes playing him against villa were he got ridiculed on the pitch. The game after at old Trafford all be it due to a late injury concern moyes again put faith in him only for him to cost us the first and crucial goal..... If ya know ya history ya muppett's.....stop defending a player who can't defend. pete0 and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 There's jags who will dive or make last ditch tackles for the sake of the team then there's johnny who strolls reluctantly jogging behind the striker once he's past him watching the ball hit the back of the net... He's a typical Wigan defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 There's jags who will dive or make last ditch tackles for the sake of the team then there's johnny who strolls reluctantly jogging behind the striker once he's past him watching the ball hit the back of the net... He's a typical Wigan defender. Now that's rather harsh on Alcaraz. Statistically, Wigan were a much better team when Alcaraz was playing - almost a goal per game less was scored against them. Someone mentioned above that Everton are a better team when Heitinga is playing. What are the stats to prove that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) I remember a certain moyes playing him against villa were he got ridiculed on the pitch. The game after at old Trafford all be it due to a late injury concern moyes again put faith in him only for him to cost us the first and crucial goal..... If ya know ya history ya muppett's.....stop defending a player who can't defend.if you know your history, you'll judge a player on his 4 years at the club (including a player of the year award) rather than a few examples were he messed up... http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2012/05/10/proud-hetinga-is-best-player Heitinga was rewarded for his sustained excellence at the heart of the Blues defence with thousands of votes in a poll on the Clubs official website. Seems the man summed it up perfectly too: "It's always good if the fans like you, but you know how football is. One day you're a hero, the next you're not. So every game I play I give 100 per cent. Edited September 8, 2013 by Matt Quinn31 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) He was never a hero. And his 100% isn't good enough.... Dennis straqualersi was also à 100% giver. Would you have him as our attacking line up? Edited September 8, 2013 by Brett Angel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 He was never a hero. And his 100% isn't good enough.... Dennis straqualersi was also à 100% giver. Would you have him as our attacking line up? To be fair, Heitinga and Dennis are nowhere near each other in terms of ability. Heitinga is a Dutch international and is way more skilled at his position than Straca. I just don't think that their situations mirror each other. Quinn31 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 It was an observation. I'm just highlighting that giving 100% isn't always good enough......well....at least for an evertonian who wishes for success! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 It was an observation. I'm just highlighting that giving 100% isn't always good enough......well....at least for an evertonian who wishes for success! Did you only start watching after the 2011/2012 season? It would explain your opinion of Heitinga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Two Dutch titles, three cups, Dutch footballer of the year and player of the year at Everton (not to mention a World Cup final) suggests that his 100% is pretty good. He's certainly had shitloads more success in the past decade than Everton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 It was an observation. I'm just highlighting that giving 100% isn't always good enough......well....at least for an evertonian who wishes for success! And it was just my observation that your argument was flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) For starters it's a debate not an argument, from my perspective, and secondly, it's not flawed when his 100% effort is not rewarded with a place in the starting line up is it? I have never said johnny is not good enough on his day. All I have said is his day doesn't come often enough to warrant him a top class centre half. Distan has won fuck all but is by far superior in this position. Who's arguments are flawed now? Edited September 8, 2013 by Brett Angel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 For starters it's a debate not an argument, from my perspective, and secondly, it's not flawed when his 100% effort is not rewarded with a place in the starting line up is it? I have never said johnny is not good enough on his day. All I have said is his day doesn't come often enough to warrant him a top class centre half. Distan has won fuck all but is by far superior in this position. Who's arguments are flawed now? An argument and a debate are the same thing, but I digress. You're original argument contains a comparison between Dennis and Heitinga, and that argument is flawed. Far more goes into comparing Dennis to Heitinga: they play different positions, one plays in a far more superior league, one has appearances for his national team, etc. To bring Distin into your defense does nothing to support your Dennis/Heitinga claim, thus has nothing to do with your original "argument" that was flawed, and it just makes you look desperate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 It was a communal response to, at least three replies.....your not that important mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 It was a communal response to, at least three replies.....your not that important mate. And I was responding to it. What's my importance have to do with anything? Or is your attempted insult just a way of waving the white flag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Yes, I wave the white flag to you.... Your superior knowledge of the blues and all they stand for is insperational to us all....MUPPETT!!! StevO and The Regulator 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 There's jags who will dive or make last ditch tackles for the sake of the team then there's johnny who strolls reluctantly jogging behind the striker once he's past him watching the ball hit the back of the net... He's a typical Wigan defender. For the sake of motd, last ditch tackles are the main sign of shit defending. Don't know why I'm bothering, but if you see a centre half clip the back of a player (and get a yellow) it's usually when his partner has fecked up. Now with this in consideration how often does Jags get a yellow helping out compared to how often he does motd tackles? Now think of our other centre-half's performances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 thats a good question actually! Us Evertonians have been spoilt, similar to with goal keepers. Jags and Distin are great defenders, not so great as a pair, and ultimately not good enough for first choice based on what we've had. Wish we had a younger version of Watson or Wier next to them to share a brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) What first choice pairings have been worse? Stubbs-Yobo is the only one I can think, but they only played together if Weir was injured. whoever partnered kroldrup in his one game!! Edited September 8, 2013 by marcopaulo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 There's jags who will dive or make last ditch tackles for the sake of the team then there's johnny who strolls reluctantly jogging behind the striker once he's past him watching the ball hit the back of the net... He's a typical Wigan defender. Wow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.