MikeO Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Today was the tip of the iceberg.... Poor use of metaphor.....basically means "small example of a big problem." Today was imo the reverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Notice people only moan about him when it's Jags out the team/position? If he played for England he wouldn't get this abuse. Guess with Anichebe being off the scape goat list there was a vacancy, they're that desperate to push the blame away from their favourites people were trying to add Gueye to the list of reasons we were having a shit run of form last month aha. Osman Hibbert Fellaini Saha Bily Anichebe Neville Howard Naismith Heitinga Quinn31 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I don't mind critisism where it's due I just hate the band-wagoning that seems to go on around Goodison. Everyone moans about Naismith and Neville each week and whilst I agree they are not world beaters they do serve a purpose in our team. I myself can't believe how much stick Heitinga is getting considering how solid he has been for us during his time here and whilst Howard needs to be replaced soon it seems as if people are trying to have him burned at the stake too. If we don't believe in our own players who do we believe in? We need some optemism around here - and fast. Quinn31 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 The guy is having a bad streak. He looks lethargic, and seems to not ensure he clears the ball, or makes the tackle. Far too slow for me, so needs to look at his training and be more specific with his needs. At the moment, I have to think his head is not 100% on the game, and he seems to be in slow motion. We can't have defenders who are not sharp, so he must improve, or be replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I don't mind critisism where it's due I just hate the band-wagoning that seems to go on around Goodison. Everyone moans about Naismith and Neville each week and whilst I agree they are not world beaters they do serve a purpose in our team. I myself can't believe how much stick Heitinga is getting considering how solid he has been for us during his time here and whilst Howard needs to be replaced soon it seems as if people are trying to have him burned at the stake too. If we don't believe in our own players who do we believe in? We need some optemism around here - and fast. I don't think it's a bandwagon opinion here mate. I care less about past performances. The players are paid to be at their best every game, and Heitinga is making too many mistakes, and not stopping the quick strikers. GoodisonRoad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirallas Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 What is certain, is I can't remember a season where we have conceded so many early goals. Leeds 4 mins Southampton 6 mins Wigan 10 mins QPR 2 mins Liverpool 14 mins Fulham 7 mins Arsenal 1 min W Ham 14 mins Newcastle 2 mins A Villa 2 mins There is something very wrong with our early concentration. Can anybody add to my observation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Not being a "Heit's Hater", I tried to look at his recent performances without bias. Looking at his performances this season, he looks like a player without confidence, he was like a bystander for the first goal and just game up as Benteke came past him. For the second goal it was his man who beat him to the ball, Heitinger didnt even challange. For those looking to blame Moyse, I agree to a degree, but lets not forget he is an international CB who has played at the highest level, and should be trusted to play against a team tanking in the league. I do think he should have been played at RB, you shouldnt monkey around with your CB partnerships if you can help it! Something is clearly not right with him at the mo and he should be dropped until his head is right. People say what about Duffy, he isnt experienced. True, but the only way he will get experience is to play, and he has talent. I think Stones should play RB if Coleman, Hibbert or Nev is injured (although Nev should be allowed nowhere near the first team). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Booing a player who's played shite isn't on. He's not gonna walk off all happy with himself the second the board is raised and think "I played well there", then when the boos ring out he thinks "oh shit, I had a bad game, thanks for letting me know blues, I'm confident and motivated to have a stormer next game" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Booing a player who's played shite isn't on. He's not gonna walk off all happy with himself the second the board is raised and think "I played well there", then when the boos ring out he thinks "oh shit, I had a bad game, thanks for letting me know blues, I'm confident and motivated to have a stormer next game" There were plenty of people booing where I was sat but it wasnt aimed at Hietinga, it was aimed at the decision to take Mirallas off Zoo and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I'm a massive fan of Heitinga but how can someone criticise Moyes for asking Heitinga to mark Benteke. Moyes may well have asked Distin to mark Benteke but if Benteke took it upon himself to go to Heitinga each and every time because he knew he had the beating of him how is that Moyes' fault? What do you expect Moyes to do? "Listen Sylvain, Benteke clearly doesn't know the game plan, now go to the lad and tell him it's you that's marking him, not Johnny, so would he be so kind as to not drift on to Johnny and make him look like a muppet?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I just think Heitinga has gone from playing regular and well, making him player of the season last year, to starting this season from the bench simply because Moyes wants a left/right foot CB combo. Im not sure how much difference it really makes as i think all our CB are of about equal ability, but it certainly has wiped Heitnga's confident bully-boy mentality that he had, now it's the reverse. He seems scared to go near the striker at times, and instead of the assured balls on the ground we have seen from him in the past, it's all Jags-esq hoof balls now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMorley91 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Thought he was shocking yesterday now. Has been for a few weeks. Seems to be a man who is in serious need of a sports psychologist, something isn't right. Ya shouldn't see that big a swing in a player from last season to this. Never good when people are suggesting Neville should start ahead of you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Anybody heard anything about his private life? Seems to be a case with some players where a troubled family life relies itself on to the pitch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 For me the first goal was the worst. I cant remember the last time i saw such a poor defensive effort than that. Jonny didnt look arsed or fit. I think you have to give credit to Lambert he must have told Bentenke to make sure he was on Jonnys shoulder but this a proven quality centre half and doesnt turn shite overnight. He was rightly player of the season last year and i think the backlash against him is an accumilation of our poor defending all season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 i'm criticising moyes for even selecting heitinga in the first place,the man should not be playing for us at this time hes been awful this season,moyes removed him at half time against wigan he was that bad,last wed he made a mess of a clearance for longs goal.we got away with that one, yesterday he just let benteke stroll past him,not even putting a tackle in,what is moyes even thinking splitting our best centreback pairing to play heitinga.neville should have played right back or even stones. heitinga should not be playing. This, Benteke couldnt have singled him out if he wasnt on the pitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) I don't understand why everyone loves Duffy so much. He's nowhere near as good as Heitinga, Distin, Baines or Jagielka so I don't see why everyone makes a song and dance about him. He's a decent defender but there is no way I'd play him ahead of the ones we've already got. Its not that i love Duffy, but he was on the bench so presumably he was fit to play, If Moyes is not going to play Neville at fullback, and Jags in his rightful position why not play Duffy instead. He's 6 inches taller than Heitinga so would have been more capable of clearing high balls and taking on Benteke, and would he have been as bad as Heitinga. ? i dont think it was possible for anybody to play as bad as Heitinga did. Edited February 4, 2013 by Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Neville will be RB for the next game. He cant play Heits after the last two performances and he will want Neville on the pitch. (experienced and ex man u) He cant drop Gibson, Felli or Osman so the only spot for Neville is RB which means Heits on the bench Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 you know what, now my anger has died a bit i feel for the guy. He is a capable player, we know that. But at the moment he just has his head so low that it's effecting everything he does. I dont feel he is as good as our normal pairing. i just dont see what others see. I keep trying to remember him being a ball playing defender and every match i watch he hoofs it forward to a corner. yet we constantly hit Jags for the same? The player i see Heits as is a tough tackling type player. Do the donkey work then pass the ball on to the ball players. This season he seems scared to go into a tackle for fear of making a mistake. Would a few sub appearances as a holding midfielder help him out? give him the chance to go into a few full blooded tackles and remember how good it felt to come out with the ball? Heits you gotta rise to this son. dont let this be how the fans remember you! Get your head up, roll your socks up and get stuck in for the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I'm a massive fan of Heitinga but how can someone criticise Moyes for asking Heitinga to mark Benteke. Moyes may well have asked Distin to mark Benteke but if Benteke took it upon himself to go to Heitinga each and every time because he knew he had the beating of him how is that Moyes' fault? What do you expect Moyes to do? "Listen Sylvain, Benteke clearly doesn't know the game plan, now go to the lad and tell him it's you that's marking him, not Johnny, so would he be so kind as to not drift on to Johnny and make him look like a muppet?" simple, Moyes shouldnt have put his most out of form CB in a place where arguably best CB has been playing, a CB who is bigger, faster, stronger and a leader. Playing Jags at RB was the mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 simple, Moyes shouldnt have put his most out of form CB in a place where arguably best CB has been playing, a CB who is bigger, faster, stronger and a leader. Playing Jags at RB was the mistake. Not even debating that, my post was aimed at those having a pop at Moyes for getting Heitinga to mark Benteke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Not even debating that, my post was aimed at those having a pop at Moyes for getting Heitinga to mark Benteke. Think its deserved mate. He wont have said in the dressing room "right lads, theyre playing 1 up front, Johnny I want you to take the job of marking him". But playing Johnny where he did, Benteke was given the choice: Johnny or Distin? Tactical decision made by Moyes - he deserves stick. Not saying Johnny is blameless but at least he came out and held his hands up. Didnt see that from Moyes, unless I missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 It all started at the World Cup last summer. He was garbage in the games I saw, eventually got dropped and he has never been the same player since. Its a shame because on his day he is the best CB we have at the club but at the moment he just seems to lost all of the confidence in his ability. I would stick him in the reserves to get game time and restore his confidence but the games dont come around quick enough and players are such primadonnas these days that they would see it as being disrespectful and probably refuse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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