Martinez won't last the season

[Bailey]

 

 

 

Read it again , he isnt saying that we are playing the same brand of football

 

"Everton are enjoying the best of both worlds now. They have Martinez’s attacking flair and the defensive resilience of the Moyes era."

 

How can anyone not see that Moyes has had an influence on our defense when every single player that has played in our back four this season and the keeper are all Moyes signings? To me its pretty obvious that Moyes built the foundations and Roberto has injected the freedom and attacking flair that was desperately needed to move us on

 

 

 

In Moyes' last five seasons we conceded an average of 22.8 goals in the first sixteen games (best was nineteen two years ago though we only had twenty points then), so this season's fifteen is a definite improvement; particularly if you factor in the fact that we've played all the "big six".

 

Certainly you can argue that the defence is Moyes made but the guys in front of them giving them the protection ain't....that's pure Martinez.

 

 

 

But the defence isn't just the back five is it? Martinez has taken Moyes' defence for sure but he's improved their effectiveness by giving them better protection than they had previously....and as a result we're conceding fewer goals.

 

 

Im with MikeO. I can certainly see where the logic is coming from but there seems to be a Myth that Everton where defensively sound under Moyes and that Martinez was completely incapable of getting his sides to defend.

 

As we all know, in recent seasons we have not been tight at the back. Didnt it take us until January or something stupid to keep a clean sheet last year? After 3ish years together under Moyes we were still seeing the same mistakes between Jags and Distin (in terms of their lack of cohesion as a partnership) and at the moment they are probably looking as good as they ever have done, especially Distin. When Moyes came in he made us really difficult to beat and I loved that as it was exactly what we needed but we have never looked the same in that sense since Lescott was sold. We went through spells but nothing more than a handful of games.

 

At Wigan Martinez could actually get his team to defend. When they were 5 at the back against some of the big teams they looked excellent. The problem was that he could only afford Championship defenders (which is a compliment to Caldwell) and the PL defenders he brought in systematically got injured and rarely played together. Its hard enough buying a ball playing defender when you have mega bucks lets alone when your shopping in the bargain bucket. As a result a lot of individual errors cost Wigan last season and the season before and whilst I wouldnt argue that Martinez should take some of the responsibility for forcing his players to play a certain way, its not like it didnt work when all the cogs were fit and available.

 

I certainly dont deny that the players here have helped Martinez implement what he wants on the pitch but to credit Moyes for our defensive play especially when McCarthy and Barry have had such a big impact in those defensive midfield areas is incredibly harsh on Martinez and his ability as a manager.

[Romey 1878]

 

But the defence isn't just the back five is it? Martinez has taken Moyes' defence for sure but he's improved their effectiveness by giving them better protection than they had previously....and as a result we're conceding fewer goals.

No doubt about any of that either and Martinez is getting plenty of credit for our season so far. I just don't see why the article has got people's backs up. It's just giving credit where it's due isn't it? It's not like it's saying our good start is down to Moyes, it's clearly not, but that what was already in place has helped Martinez a lot because it gave him what he didn't have at Wigan - solidity, which he has melded with his own ideas to great effect.

 

You know me, I'm glad Moyes has gone so I'm not going to stick up for him willy nilly!

 

The test for Martinez is going to come when he has to break up that defence and bring his own players in. He'll have more money, and wages, to play with so he should be ok.

[Bailey]

No doubt about any of that either and Martinez is getting plenty of credit for our season so far. I just don't see why the article has got people's backs up. It's just giving credit where it's due isn't it? It's not like it's saying our good start is down to Moyes, it's clearly not, but that what was already in place has helped Martinez a lot because it gave him what he didn't have at Wigan - solidity, which he has melded with his own ideas to great effect.

 

You know me, I'm glad Moyes has gone so I'm not going to stick up for him willy nilly!

 

The test for Martinez is going to come when he has to break up that defence and bring his own players in. He'll have more money, and wages, to play with so he should be ok.

 

"If Martinez could have organised a defence, Wigan would have stayed up. Unfortunately, they conceded 73 times"

 

Its this type of crap tbh Romey. If you watched Wigan defend as a team last season or the season before they were pretty good. High energy, everyone knew their job, space was closed down quickly and they generally restricted teams to limited opportunities. As Cornish refers, the main problem was they couldnt keep their best defenders fit and Martinez was probably guilty of going more for ball players that defenders and a lot of the time, especially last season, he was left with FB's playing as CB's.

 

Martinez knows how to organise a defence as well as anybody in this league. Generally, we have given chances away due to poor decision making, whether that be on the ball and over-committing or falling asleep/making a rash challenge but given the way we want to play that will happen.

 

If Samuels had left it along the sentiments he said about Graham & Wenger, there wouldnt be any issue. Its the suggestion that Martinez doesnt know what he is doing defensively that is pure bullshit and shows he has just looked at the stats and not watched the games themselves.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Bailey

[Romey 1878]

Maybe the article is overly harsh in appreciating the limitations Martinez faced at Wigan (injuries and lack of money to buy decent defenders etc) but it's still, in essence, correct.

 

I don't want to talk about this any more tbh, I'm happy with what we've got now, the influence Moyes may have had on it is unimportant really. Martinez is the man.

 

Sin Miedo.

[marcus jones]

When Martinez was with Swansea his philosophy was when we have the ball they can't score. I thought he had a good defensive record there, he had a good players for that standard. As you get up the divisions you need to adapt the qualities you have. The more tools you have in your tool box, the more options you have to get the job done. I was shit scared when he came to us because I envisaged us winning/losing 4-3 etc... I will try to do a Hafnia-ism (sorry Haf!) Moyes bought himself a kit car but most of the parts were missing though. He put part after part in with great diligence, always being careful not to over spend on extra parts he needed to buy in. When the time came to race it at the race track, he was cautious, never willing to go toe to toe, always willing to coat tail the leaders as he did not want to crash his car, he just was not willing to risk it, just stay in contention and hope one of the leaders come off. A "works team'' sees how well Moyes handles his car, treating it with respect and never try to crash it. Martinez takes over Moyes old car, looks under the bonnet and says "ooooh'' bet this will go like a rocket if I only just adjust this and twiddle with that, while I'm at it why not change that as well. When Martinez gets on the track he just goes for it, always believing in him self, gliding the car around corners and winning the toe to toe with the top boys, classy driving from someone who used to drive a Talbot Sunbeam, who is now in this purring speedster who will end up driving for the best formula 1 team.There,it's the best I could come up with and I hope Haf will approve!!!!

[Romey 1878]

Lol I'm sure he will, that was good!

[Hafnia]

Ha ha, great in depth analogy!

[Guest Nikica]

Interesting discussion you guy have going - I have enjoyed reading it.

 

To clarify what I meant earlier - it's all very well for Samuel to say that Martinez has built on Moyes's solid foundations, but what he fails to realise is that defending and attacking aren't separate entities or disparate parts - they're both part of an interrelated plexus known as a team - they combine to form a coherent whole which works in harmony. MikeO alludes to this above by referencing the defensive midfielders who Martinez has brought in (McCarthy and Barry). Not only have these guys protected the defence but they've given you a platform to play the exciting football which has been a hallmark of your season. Moyes had this too with the likes of Arteta there but his reluctance to attack was evidence of the two managers' contrasting philosophies.

 

Samuel's modus operandi seems to be taking things out of context: he references Wigan's poor goals conceded record, but what he fails to mention (either because he's not perceptive enough or he is agenda-riddled, I am betting some of both) is that Martinez's Wigan and Moyes's Everton possesses different philosophies and styles. The two cannot be taken as absolutes, more care is required in the analysis. Wigan tended to play their 352 and try and build from the back, Martinez was willing to compromise some defensive solidity for certain defenders - Caldwell for example - who could bring the ball from the back and initiate attacks - that's his style and why Distin and Jagielka are now looking more accomplished on the ball. As I said a few weeks ago, Martinez possesses the sort of ideas about football which flourish with better players at his disposal - the antithesis of Moyes who prefers safe, organised football. We saw this at Everton - I know you played some nice football at times, but the general theme of Moyes's tenure was organised, safe, disciplined football. Of course he would be likely to concede far less goals than Martinez playing that way - it's lower risk football and that's also why he drew so many games. Samuel fails to acknowledge this fact - he treats Martinez's Wigan and Moyes's Everton as similar footballing concepts and that's where his column fails.

 

Then there's the fact that Samuel is a well-known little Englander. It's obvious that he wouldn't like a foreigner such as Martinez to outshine a Brit.

 

Overall, Martinez's Wigan weren't unorganised, but they were happy to try things even if it meant risking conceding. This is anathema to Moyes and it's no real surprise that Everton are now keeping clean sheets and playing better football under Martinez - fair play to Moyes for laying the groundwork but the majority of the credit must go to Martinez as he's now able to introduce stronger defensive solidity into his vision. That's not so much because of Moyes as it is Martinez's ability to get Distin, Jagielka et al to buy into his philosophy. This whole thing just smacks of giving Moyes credit because he's more 'tried and proven'. Football should be a game about adventure and risk.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Nikica

[MikeO]

When Martinez was with Swansea his philosophy was when we have the ball they can't score. I thought he had a good defensive record there, he had a good players for that standard. As you get up the divisions you need to adapt the qualities you have. The more tools you have in your tool box, the more options you have to get the job done. I was shit scared when he came to us because I envisaged us winning/losing 4-3 etc... I will try to do a Hafnia-ism (sorry Haf!) Moyes bought himself a kit car but most of the parts were missing though. He put part after part in with great diligence, always being careful not to over spend on extra parts he needed to buy in. When the time came to race it at the race track, he was cautious, never willing to go toe to toe, always willing to coat tail the leaders as he did not want to crash his car, he just was not willing to risk it, just stay in contention and hope one of the leaders come off. A "works team'' sees how well Moyes handles his car, treating it with respect and never try to crash it. Martinez takes over Moyes old car, looks under the bonnet and says "ooooh'' bet this will go like a rocket if I only just adjust this and twiddle with that, while I'm at it why not change that as well. When Martinez gets on the track he just goes for it, always believing in him self, gliding the car around corners and winning the toe to toe with the top boys, classy driving from someone who used to drive a Talbot Sunbeam, who is now in this purring speedster who will end up driving for the best formula 1 team.There,it's the best I could come up with and I hope Haf will approve!!!!

 

That is all.

[GoodisonRoad]

The test for Martinez is going to come when he has to break up that defence and bring his own players in. He'll have more money, and wages, to play with so he should be ok.

 

This for me. Be interesting to see how Martinez picks his defenders in the transfer market. Im not really considering Alcaraz as i think he is just simply a squad filler.

[Romey 1878]

http://www.teamtalk.com/everton/9076350/Everton-defender-Sylvain-Distin-credits-David-Moyes-for-club-s-start

[Hafnia]

http://www.teamtalk.com/everton/9076350/Everton-defender-Sylvain-Distin-credits-David-Moyes-for-club-s-start

 

Footballers are experts at the art of sandwiching (hamburger approach). Soft batch (some praise) Meaty middle (main criticism), Soft batch (some praise).

 

It leads to a very clever way of making the recipient feel less victimised but they walk away knowing that there has been criticism.

 

Praise:- "We never give up. That mental strength, he instilled it in us a long time ago. "I have thought for Moyes. I am at Everton thanks to him. He has enough experience to bounce back. It is Manchester United, a big engine. I am not worried."

 

Criticism:- "Now we have a game focused on ball possession. We rarely play long passes. Whoever the opponent is, we try to impose our game"

 

Maybe it's not seen as criticism but time to use an analogy to maybe put it into perspective. I will plaguerise the excellent car one above from Jona...

 

Moyes was a solid racing driver, with his solid testing he enabled a poor team to create a great car, he also was quite good at qualifying and ended up with a few poles but ultimately ended up finishing races round 4th and 5th, with the odd podium. He gets the ferrari job as a result of legendary racer retiring (who happened to be his mentor) - his work ethic and testing skills being the prime reason.... problem is they already had one fo the best cars. So really he could only show his value as a driver, as a tester he wasn't really needed.

 

In his old team that he left, they took a chance on a young upstart who had surprised some by challenging the big boys in a car which had been put together by scraps... ultimately that wasn't enough and the few crashes due to techincal errors seen the team finish low and go bust. The new upstart came in and not only carried on the solid work of his predecessor but he started winning races, overtaking the ferrari that his predecessor was now driving - winning in style...

 

His predecessor didn't like this, he tried to take claim for building the car, whilst trying to make out the ferrari wasn't as good as people thought.

 

Then one day the long serving pit man sylvain distin said...I'm always appreciative of Moyes, he gave me my job... as a team we have carried on from the hard work that Moyes instilled in us, we are still changing the tyres without any issues or mistakes but Martinez is setting lap records and is driving the car with a fearlessness and style that we have not seen before, we wants to overtake cars and not just stay in the race. I'm sure David can get ferrari on the podium again though.

 

The meat is in there... appreciation for hard work and bringing you to the club pales in significance to a comment which more or less says "the new manager has an admirable footballing principle which just wasnt there before"

Edited December 17, 2013 by Hafnia

[marcopaulo]

i'm not sure what i'm reading

[Hafnia]

i'm not sure what i'm reading

 

Baically he is "damning with faint praise"

[marcopaulo]

these analogies are taking over this place...i understood it just got bored halfway through..sorry haf...i preferred it when you were a miserable bastard

[MikeO]

 

Footballers are experts at the art of sandwiching (hamburger approach). Soft batch (some praise) Meaty middle (main criticism), Soft batch (some praise).

 

It leads to a very clever way of making the recipient feel less victimised but they walk away knowing that there has been criticism.

 

Praise:- "We never give up. That mental strength, he instilled it in us a long time ago. "I have thought for Moyes. I am at Everton thanks to him. He has enough experience to bounce back. It is Manchester United, a big engine. I am not worried."

 

Criticism:- "Now we have a game focused on ball possession. We rarely play long passes. Whoever the opponent is, we try to impose our game"

 

Maybe it's not seen as criticism but time to use an analogy to maybe put it into perspective. I will plaguerise the excellent car one above from Jona...

 

Moyes was a solid racing driver, with his solid testing he enabled a poor team to create a great car, he also was quite good at qualifying and ended up with a few poles but ultimately ended up finishing races round 4th and 5th, with the odd podium. He gets the ferrari job as a result of legendary racer retiring (who happened to be his mentor) - his work ethic and testing skills being the prime reason.... problem is they already had one fo the best cars. So really he could only show his value as a driver, as a tester he wasn't really needed.

 

In his old team that he left, they took a chance on a young upstart who had surprised some by challenging the big boys in a car which had been put together by scraps... ultimately that wasn't enough and the few crashes due to techincal errors seen the team finish low and go bust. The new upstart came in and not only carried on the solid work of his predecessor but he started winning races, overtaking the ferrari that his predecessor was now driving - winning in style...

 

His predecessor didn't like this, he tried to take claim for building the car, whilst trying to make out the ferrari wasn't as good as people thought.

 

Then one day the long serving pit man sylvain distin said...I'm always appreciative of Moyes, he gave me my job... as a team we have carried on from the hard work that Moyes instilled in us, we are still changing the tyres without any issues or mistakes but Martinez is setting lap records and is driving the car with a fearlessness and style that we have not seen before, we wants to overtake cars and not just stay in the race. I'm sure David can get ferrari on the podium again though.

 

The meat is in there... appreciation for hard work and bringing you to the club pales in significance to a comment which more or less says "the new manager has an admirable footballing principle which just wasnt there before"

 

 

these analogies are taking over this place...i understood it just got bored halfway through..sorry haf...i preferred it when you were a miserable bastard

 

I love this place .

[Hafnia]

these analogies are taking over this place...i understood it just got bored halfway through..sorry haf...i preferred it when you were a miserable bastard

 

That's the Curmudgeon is back by popular demand. In fact I may even change from Hafnia to Curmudgeon....

[Lowensda]

 

That's the Curmudgeon is back by popular demand. In fact I may even change from Hafnia to Curmudgeon....

 

Someone do it. (Mods)

[Matt]

these analogies are taking over this place...i understood it just got bored halfway through..sorry haf...i preferred it when you were a miserable bastard

suppose we should get the puns going to even out then

[marcopaulo]

suppose you should cunt off

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

When Martinez was with Swansea his philosophy was when we have the ball they can't score. I thought he had a good defensive record there, he had a good players for that standard. As you get up the divisions you need to adapt the qualities you have. The more tools you have in your tool box, the more options you have to get the job done. I was shit scared when he came to us because I envisaged us winning/losing 4-3 etc... I will try to do a Hafnia-ism (sorry Haf!) Moyes bought himself a kit car but most of the parts were missing though. He put part after part in with great diligence, always being careful not to over spend on extra parts he needed to buy in. When the time came to race it at the race track, he was cautious, never willing to go toe to toe, always willing to coat tail the leaders as he did not want to crash his car, he just was not willing to risk it, just stay in contention and hope one of the leaders come off. A "works team'' sees how well Moyes handles his car, treating it with respect and never try to crash it. Martinez takes over Moyes old car, looks under the bonnet and says "ooooh'' bet this will go like a rocket if I only just adjust this and twiddle with that, while I'm at it why not change that as well. When Martinez gets on the track he just goes for it, always believing in him self, gliding the car around corners and winning the toe to toe with the top boys, classy driving from someone who used to drive a Talbot Sunbeam, who is now in this purring speedster who will end up driving for the best formula 1 team.There,it's the best I could come up with and I hope Haf will approve!!!!

 

 

Great analogy but I think thats the point isnt it?

 

Moyes basically built it and Roberto has come along and only had to adjust this and twiddle that. Nobody is arguing that Roberto isnt driving it better

[Guest]

Yes but in this day and age of managers getting sacked why is moyes getting any credit when it offsets what he is doing with his inheritence? He is getting credit for somebody excelling. Is that right?

[Matt]

Yes but in this day and age of managers getting sacked why is moyes getting any credit when it offsets what he is doing with his inheritence? He is getting credit for somebody excelling. Is that right?

no, hes getting credit (rightly so) for putting the foundations in place for someone to excel.

 

What Moyes finally left us with is an excellent squad full of experience. Martinez brought in his new way of working, plus a little youth into the balance, and thrived. But he wouldnt be able to have done that without Moyes having laid the foundations.

 

His inheritance, as you put it, is at a similar state to when he took over at Everton, excluding the obvious. He needs to replace a large portion of the team that SAF left him, as the majority are getting on (Vidic, Ferdinand, Giggs, RVP, Valencia, Carrick, etc) or not quite good enough for Utd (Cleverly, Smalling, Welbeck, Raphael etc.) whilst, at the same time, compete for the CL, EPL and the FA cup. Not an easy job. Why? Because SAF left him with a fixer-upper team that was on the decline. To back to the car analogy from Jona, he has to strip back to the chassis and rebuild whilst trying to win races at the same time. Martinez "just" had to tweak the engine and drive...

[Sideliner]

Moyes could not tune the Everton car in 11 years in charge - Martinez fixed an old problem in 6 months -

the one mechanic has no clue how to get the most out of an engine -

the other turns it into a turbo charger with a pair of pliers and a bit of wire -

if you gave the United engine to Martinez he would be lapping the Everton engine in his first year in charge -

the United engine is misfiring like the Everton model did for 11 years - the same engine which won the race by a country mile less than a year ago-

replacing most engine parts wont help if the problem lies with a faulty spark plug called Moyes

[marcopaulo]

stop with the car talk now

 

martinez has done brilliant but the season isn't over yet

[Hafnia]

no, hes getting credit (rightly so) for putting the foundations in place for someone to excel.

 

What Moyes finally left us with is an excellent squad full of experience. Martinez brought in his new way of working, plus a little youth into the balance, and thrived. But he wouldnt be able to have done that without Moyes having laid the foundations.

 

His inheritance, as you put it, is at a similar state to when he took over at Everton, excluding the obvious. He needs to replace a large portion of the team that SAF left him, as the majority are getting on (Vidic, Ferdinand, Giggs, RVP, Valencia, Carrick, etc) or not quite good enough for Utd (Cleverly, Smalling, Welbeck, Raphael etc.) whilst, at the same time, compete for the CL, EPL and the FA cup. Not an easy job. Why? Because SAF left him with a fixer-upper team that was on the decline. To back to the car analogy from Jona, he has to strip back to the chassis and rebuild whilst trying to win races at the same time. Martinez "just" had to tweak the engine and drive...

 

Distin 36

Howard 34

Hibbert 32

Osman 32

Jags 31

Pienaar 31

Heitinga 30

Baines 29

 

We have eight players over the age of 29 - six of them key players,

 

Man United have 16 first team players who will make a fair few first team appearances all under the age of 29, only 4 above 29 who will be a key part of their team this season.

 

No comparison Matt. SAF left moyes with some extremely talented young players to work with.

[marcopaulo]

i'd hardly call osman a key player..squad player now..and baines has only just turned 29

[Matt]

 

Distin 36

Howard 34

Hibbert 32

Osman 32

Jags 31

Pienaar 31

Heitinga 30

Baines 29

 

We have eight players over the age of 29 - six of them key players,

 

Man United have 16 first team players who will make a fair few first team appearances all under the age of 29, only 4 above 29 who will be a key part of their team this season.

 

No comparison Matt. SAF left moyes with some extremely talented young players to work with.

who?! Jones, Kagawa, De Gea, maybe Zaha... Im struggling after that! Plus, Utds remit is very different to Evertons. Moyes has left us with Barkley (who he did give a chance to, like it or not), Stones, Green, Garbutt, Oviedo, Coleman... So there is a comparison to be made, just a pointless one.

 

Anyway, all Im getting at is that Moyes needs to rebuild, and doesnt have a great baseline from which to start, considering the objectives. He took Everton from a poor team whos main objective was survival, to team of internationals who have aged along the way - including all those you mentioned. Check the ages when he brought them in - Distin excepted, since hes a freak - Moyes cant defy time! He now needs to take a team of aging champions to a team of champions for the next 10 yrs. Thats the difficulty.

 

Martinez has inherited a aging team too, but added youth where he could. Hes building for the future too, just like Moyes has too, hes just started a bit quicker. But he has no pressure to compete for the league title, to compete for the CL. At least, not yet, and that is a big difference.

 

 

 

Moyes could not tune the Everton car in 11 years in charge - Martinez fixed an old problem in 6 months -

the one mechanic has no clue how to get the most out of an engine -

the other turns it into a turbo charger with a pair of pliers and a bit of wire -

if you gave the United engine to Martinez he would be lapping the Everton engine in his first year in charge -

the United engine is misfiring like the Everton model did for 11 years - the same engine which won the race by a country mile less than a year ago-

replacing most engine parts wont help if the problem lies with a faulty spark plug called Moyes

he wasnt tuning a car because the car was a heap of junk. He rebuild this team into something stable again, and to completely ignore what hes accomplished is just crazy. The rest of the post I wont go into...

[Hafnia]

who?! Jones, Kagawa, De Gea, maybe Zaha... Im struggling after that! Plus, Utds remit is very different to Evertons. Moyes has left us with Barkley (who he did give a chance to, like it or not), Stones, Green, Garbutt, Oviedo, Coleman... So there is a comparison to be made, just a pointless one.

 

Anyway, all Im getting at is that Moyes needs to rebuild, and doesnt have a great baseline from which to start, considering the objectives. He took Everton from a poor team whos main objective was survival, to team of internationals who have aged along the way - including all those you mentioned. Check the ages when he brought them in - Distin excepted, since hes a freak - Moyes cant defy time! He now needs to take a team of aging champions to a team of champions for the next 10 yrs. Thats the difficulty.

 

Martinez has inherited a aging team too, but added youth where he could. Hes building for the future too, just like Moyes has too, hes just started a bit quicker. But he has no pressure to compete for the league title, to compete for the CL. At least, not yet, and that is a big difference.

 

 

 

he wasnt tuning a car because the car was a heap of junk. He rebuild this team into something stable again, and to completely ignore what hes accomplished is just crazy. The rest of the post I wont go into...

 

Januzai

Phil Jones

Lingard

Zaha

De Gea

Rafael

Smalling

Kagawa

Chiquarito

Evans

Cleverley (I will include him as some idiot will pay £10m for him)

 

Now there is a baseline of players under 25 years of age. Throw in Valencia, Rooney, RVP, Nani, and a few other title winners... come on are you honestly saying he's inherited some vetarns team??? He needed to buy a marquee midfielder and went for Fellaini. He has the best striker partnership on papaer in the league and they barely score goals.

 

Moyes left us with zero firing strikers. Targetted a left back that we never had any proven cover for. We had a midfield that was extremely slow, Martinez has worked relative miracles with what he did in the summer transfer market.

[Matt]

 

Januzai

Phil Jones

Lingard

Zaha

De Gea

Rafael

Smalling

Kagawa

Chiquarito

Evans

Cleverley (I will include him as some idiot will pay £10m for him)

 

Now there is a baseline of players under 25 years of age. Throw in Valencia, Rooney, RVP, Nani, and a few other title winners... come on are you honestly saying he's inherited some vetarns team??? He needed to buy a marquee midfielder and went for Fellaini. He has the best striker partnership on papaer in the league and they barely score goals.

 

Moyes left us with zero firing strikers. Targetted a left back that we never had any proven cover for. We had a midfield that was extremely slow, Martinez has worked relative miracles with what he did in the summer transfer market.

im saying hes inherited a team that needs a clean out, just like Everton did when he arrived.... But im not going round in circles...