Martinez won't last the season

[Cornish Steve]

Since I posted this to a more obscure thread, maybe I can repeat it here...

 

duncanmckenzieismagic wrote>>I agreed with a point a journalist made that we are seeing the best of both worlds ie Moyes defensive stability and organisation and Robertos flair and playing without fear

 

My response>> I'm with you on this. The difference between Martinez at Wigan and Martinez at Everton is the league's most solid defence: fewest goals against and most clean sheets. That doesn't just appear overnight.

 

I'm in the pro-Martinez camp and have admired his abilities at previous clubs. On the other hand, I think it's unfair to diss David Moyes, who built a strong team on a limited budget. My principal criticism of Moyes is that he is a builder - an excellent and proven builder - but not an achiever. Everton has been built on firm foundations; now is the time to achieve.

[Blue 250]

Since I posted this to a more obscure thread, maybe I can repeat it here...

 

duncanmckenzieismagic wrote>>I agreed with a point a journalist made that we are seeing the best of both worlds ie Moyes defensive stability and organisation and Robertos flair and playing without fear

 

My response>> I'm with you on this. The difference between Martinez at Wigan and Martinez at Everton is the league's most solid defence: fewest goals against and most clean sheets. That doesn't just appear overnight.

 

I'm in the pro-Martinez camp and have admired his abilities at previous clubs. On the other hand, I think it's unfair to diss David Moyes, who built a strong team on a limited budget. My principal criticism of Moyes is that he is a builder - an excellent and proven builder - but not an achiever. Everton has been built on firm foundations; now is the time to achieve.

 

So it wasn't an achievement turning Everton around, when heading nowhere except down.

 

I'd consider that a bigger achievement than wining 6 games possibly against lower league teams, possibly mostly at home and winning a cup.You can win a trophy and be relegated, is that an achievement?

 

Martinez was probably offered more money to go to the rs, he obviously would have had more money to spend on players and would have been able to pay huge wages (Gerrard, Saurez and co).......Why would he choose Everton! I think we know why he chose us.

 

This debate could go on for ages, so I'm going to sit back and watch Martinez take Everton forward, whilst hoping Moyes does well for United, always just finishing just below us.

 

No more from me on this subject.

[gethinO]

Merry Christmas everyone. Looking forward for the game tomorrow. And Memma... just to remind you, it's christmas, and Martinez is still the manager of Everton football club.

[Quinn31]

Since I posted this to a more obscure thread, maybe I can repeat it here...

 

duncanmckenzieismagic wrote>>I agreed with a point a journalist made that we are seeing the best of both worlds ie Moyes defensive stability and organisation and Robertos flair and playing without fear

 

My response>> I'm with you on this. The difference between Martinez at Wigan and Martinez at Everton is the league's most solid defence: fewest goals against and most clean sheets. That doesn't just appear overnight.

 

I'm in the pro-Martinez camp and have admired his abilities at previous clubs. On the other hand, I think it's unfair to diss David Moyes, who built a strong team on a limited budget. My principal criticism of Moyes is that he is a builder - an excellent and proven builder - but not an achiever. Everton has been built on firm foundations; now is the time to achieve.

I think I might agree with you on this one. He did a hell of getting Everton from a 0 to a 7 or 8 (out of ten), but he could never get the club past 7 or 8. He was a good manager, but he clearly did not know how/refused to take enough risks to get Everton beyond where he had taken us, and we stagnated under him for the last 3-4 years. To be fair to him, he might've been able to take us further with money, and the competition has grown over the past few years with Man City hitting it rich and Spurs becoming quite the formidable opponent.

 

Martinez seems to know how to get the team to the next level though (at least knows how to get more out of the current squad), but he needs to prove himself in the transfer market and the team clearly will need a capable goal scorer when Lukaku goes back.

[pete0]

Can't believe anyone is still defending this article. It's standard one-sided DM bullshit to cause a debate between the naive or idiots and people stupid enough to argue back, sort your life out and form a decision with your own brain. (I won't comment again on this shite article as it's talksportesc). Any genuine arguments welcome though.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Can't believe anyone is still defending this article. It's standard one-sided DM bullshit to cause a debate between the naive or idiots and people stupid enough to argue back, sort your life out and form a decision with your own brain. (I won't comment again on this shite article as it's talksportesc). Any genuine arguments welcome though.

 

 

So because someone has a different opinion from yours they are naive or idiots?

 

Dont suppose you would care to state which of the facts in that article you beleive to be false because as I said if they are true then he must have been doing something right?

[MikeO]

 

 

Dont suppose you would care to state which of the facts in that article you beleive to be false because as I said if they are true then he must have been doing something right?

 

Don't think anyone's questioned the stats.....just the selective use of them.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

Don't think anyone's questioned the stats.....just the selective use of them.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics

 

 

And so the point remains, even if you beleive that they arent the full story surely there is enough there to prove he did a good job at Everton?

 

Im saying no more on the subject now anyway. The "appologists" can continue to rate Moyes and apologise for the fact were not fighting relegation and the haters can continue to rewrite the history books and claim that Moyes has had no influence on the current squad even though the players say differently

Edited December 26, 2013 by duncanmckenzieismagic

[SimonButtle]

 

 

And so the point remains, even if you beleive that they arent the full story surely there is enough there to prove he did a good job at Everton?

 

Im saying no more on the subject now anyway. The "appologists" can continue to rate Moyes and apologise for the fact were not fighting relegation and the haters can continue to rewrite the history books and claim that Moyes has had no influence on the current squad even though the players say differently

I don't think anyone is trying to suggest that are they Dunc? i think it's more a case of(based on the current form of the team, a team of players he mostly bought) it's looking like we might have been slightly under achieving at times, you even admitted yourself in a previous post that he had gone stale and a parting of ways was needed. Maybe he's just not quite the messiah some made him out to be. I look at it as we had stability under Moyes, under Martinez it looks like we have a future.

[pete0]

 

 

So because someone has a different opinion from yours they are naive or idiots?

 

Dont suppose you would care to state which of the facts in that article you beleive to be false because as I said if they are true then he must have been doing something right?

You're a Daily Mail believer, clinging to every word like it's bible. I'm not going to discuss the article anymore as I've already covered enough in my original post plus the rag is a disgrace, never gives a full story just makes up shit or leaves out half the story to cause a storm.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tomphillips/the-internet-vs-the-daily-mail

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I don't think anyone is trying to suggest that are they Dunc? i think it's more a case of(based on the current form of the team, a team of players he mostly bought) it's looking like we might have been slightly under achieving at times, you even admitted yourself in a previous post that he had gone stale and a parting of ways was needed. Maybe he's just not quite the messiah some made him out to be. I look at it as we had stability under Moyes, under Martinez it looks like we have a future.

 

 

Thats exactly what people are saying.

 

This all started over a journalist saying we currently have the best of both worlds in Moyes' defensive organistaion and Robertos flair and playing without fear and people in here got all up in arms saying Moyes deserves no credit for it at all

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

You're a Daily Mail believer, clinging to every word like it's bible. I'm not going to discuss the article anymore as I've already covered enough in my original post plus the rag is a disgrace, never gives a full story just makes up shit or leaves out half the story to cause a storm.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tomphillips/the-internet-vs-the-daily-mail

 

 

Thanks Pete , such utter bollocks like this has reminded me of why I cant be arsed with this argument anymore.

 

For the record I said in the original post that I couldnt stand the reporter but just thought in this case he had a point and I dont even read the Daily Mail as a rule so I hardly "cling to every word as if its a bible"

[thoward18]

Martinez won't last the season because Real Madrid will be offering him their job by New Year's

[rubecula]

Martinez won't last the season because Real Madrid will be offering him their job by New Year's

Now you've gone and said it :shaking fist:

[marcopaulo]

Martinez out

[Steve_E]

 

 

Thats exactly what people are saying.

 

This all started over a journalist saying we currently have the best of both worlds in Moyes' defensive organistaion and Robertos flair and playing without fear and people in here got all up in arms saying Moyes deserves no credit for it at all

 

I think people were up in arms because the Daily Mail journalist implied that Martinez has no clue about how to "organize a defense", that's what I disliked in that article at least. We're not really enjoying Moyes' defensive organisation at the moment are we? It's Martinez and his staff who have been drilling defensive shape et cetera into the team for the past 6 months, not Moyes. Obviously Martinez benefited from inheriting a squad assembled by Moyes with some very good defenders, but that's about as far as Moyes' influence goes imo. Martinez also did bring in the two holding midfielders himself and their positioning and play has been vital in keeping defensive balance.

[MikeO]

 

I think people were up in arms because the Daily Mail journalist implied that Martinez has no clue about how to "organize a defense", that's what I disliked in that article at least. We're not really enjoying Moyes' defensive organisation at the moment are we? It's Martinez and his staff who have been drilling defensive shape et cetera into the team for the past 6 months, not Moyes. Obviously Martinez benefited from inheriting a squad assembled by Moyes with some very good defenders, but that's about as far as Moyes' influence goes imo. Martinez also did bring in the two holding midfielders himself and their positioning and play has been vital in keeping defensive balance.

 

Don't be ridiculous....the back five will be pretending to listen to RM and his team on the training ground and then sneaking off to a store cupboard to discuss "....what would Moyes do?"

[Romey 1878]

Dropped a clanger by bringing in Osman for Barkley today. Probably the first mistake he's made since taking over.

[Quinn31]

Dropped a clanger by bringing in Osman for Barkley today. Probably the first mistake he's made since taking over.

I'll defend him on that decision. Barkley could've used a bit of a rest, especially w/a big match Sunday, and what better time to rest him than at home against the bottom side. I don't think anyone could've expected a veteran like Osman to make such a bone-headed move that changed the dynamic of the match. To be fair, Howard playing that ball to Osman was nearly as dumb as Osman's pass back, he should've kicked it long or found someone else.

[Romey 1878]

I'll defend him on that decision. Barkley could've used a bit of a rest, especially w/a big match Sunday, and what better time to rest him than at home against the bottom side. I don't think anyone could've expected a veteran like Osman to make such a bone-headed move that changed the dynamic of the match. To be fair, Howard playing that ball to Osman was nearly as dumb as Osman's pass back, he should've kicked it long or found someone else.

I wasn't saying it because of the mistake tbh, or that Osman came into the team (even though I don't think he should be starting games now). It's more about who he came in for. Barkley had just scored a beautiful free kick to win us the game. He didn't actually play all that well during that game but his confidence would've been soaring. If Martinez wanted to get Osman in the side then drop someone who deserves it like Mirallas. Or someone who needs it like Pienaar (again looked shagged today). And let's be honest; Osman gives us no spark to our play, he just keeps it simple. We lose a hell of a lot without Barkley and it showed today.

[Dalziel Kane]

Dropped a clanger by bringing in Osman for Barkley today. Probably the first mistake he's made since taking over.

should have started with howard in goal for the fulham league cup game and fielded a stronger starting XI that night. With that, we may well have adfanced that night, instead of an early elimination.

 

This thread pieces still offers a certain degree of humor and maybe surprised its still underway but as before, theres no chance of Martinez departing before end of season.

[Blue 250]

To be fair, Howard playing that ball to Osman was nearly as dumb as Osman's pass back, he should've kicked it long or found someone else.

 

Now just hold on, that old long ball game, why it might just go to an opponent and give them an advantage

[Quinn31]

 

Now just hold on, that old long ball game, why it might just go to an opponent and give them an advantage

Being facetious?

[Blue 250]

Being facetious?

 

I don't know, what does it mean!

[Quinn31]

 

I don't know, what does it mean!

Sarcastic.

[Blue 250]

Sarcastic.

 

My point!

 

There's a time for tic tac football and there's a time for launching, maybe the purists will have you think ' tic tac ' is the only way!

 

I don't agree, there is a time and place for both.We will give goals away like this if we never go long, it's a choice, just happened to be the wrong one today.

[Brett Angel]

You keep possession as much as you possibly can during a game. Whether it be on your own goal line or there's. It tires the other team out quicker, it brings confidence to your side, it relieves unwanted pressure from opponents by giving them the ball at every given opportunity with long goods....and finally, as RM indirectly said, if these players class themselves as professional, top level players, then these mistakes shouldn't come into there make-up. I am assuming that this is why he made the point of saying he has learnt more from the squad today, which is a good lesson.

[barryj]

 

Now just hold on, that old long ball game, why it might just go to an opponent and give them an advantage

No problem with short balls out however it's better to go left or right so that if any mistake is made you have a chance to recover. Losing the ball on the D is a nightmare.

[Bailey]

 

 

Thats exactly what people are saying.

 

This all started over a journalist saying we currently have the best of both worlds in Moyes' defensive organistaion and Robertos flair and playing without fear and people in here got all up in arms saying Moyes deserves no credit for it at all

 

No that's not what they are saying Dunc, that is just what you want to believe they are saying.

 

 

I think people were up in arms because the Daily Mail journalist implied that Martinez has no clue about how to "organize a defense", that's what I disliked in that article at least. We're not really enjoying Moyes' defensive organisation at the moment are we? It's Martinez and his staff who have been drilling defensive shape et cetera into the team for the past 6 months, not Moyes. Obviously Martinez benefited from inheriting a squad assembled by Moyes with some very good defenders, but that's about as far as Moyes' influence goes imo. Martinez also did bring in the two holding midfielders himself and their positioning and play has been vital in keeping defensive balance.

 

Exactly.

 

There are plenty of comments these journo's could have made about the good things Moyes did at the club, such as the signings he made on a budget or the team spirit and togetherness he instilled but the two articles posted by the same bullshit paper cant even get their story straight and it has quite rightly been ripped apart for the lazy journalism that it is.

[Hafnia]

Lets get another thing considered here... Man United's mucky fingers. Anyone not for a minute think SAF doesn't have a few journos numbers on speed dial? It's not making fergie look good all this Moyes has gone Everton look great.

 

There is an agenda in that article, it's so unbalanced. Many will say I am, but I'm not a journo.