Martinez won't last the season

[marcopaulo]

Surely I can't be the only one who's sick of these analogies?

 

 

fuckin right mate

 

every time there is an analogy on these boards now i just space over it..it's fuckin borin

[Sideliner]

i am with Nikica , Hafnia and Tricky Trev on this one -

and yes Quin let us talk about "what good manager we have " without some of us always constantly implying that all the hard work was done by Moyes and Martinez just had to do a little bit of fine tuning.- we might stop talking about Moyes if some people stop giving him most of the credit for the new transformed Everton with Martinez at the helm going in a totally new direction -

give credit where credit is due - Moyes had his opportunity for 11 long years -

but the hard fact is that Martinez in his first season has done 7 points better than Moyes in his 11th season at this stage - i rest my case

(and Moyes is in the most familiar 8th position with the mighty United (reigning champions) at his beck and call - now we are comparing apples to apples

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

in most instances the truth hurts - just ignore it if you are sick of it - or contradict it

just read the thread properly and you will notice that there is nothing that every Evertonian knows -

crux of the matter is that some are defending Moyes while others are defending Martinez -

 

 

I think you have completely missed the point, this isnt about who is the better manager between Martinez or Moyes

 

Not one single person is having a pop at Martinez and in fact everyone is in agreement that we are better off with Roberto so what exactly are you defending Martinez against?

 

As for the truth hurts if you could show me one single instance of this so called truth then please feel free to do so

 

 

Actually dont bother as Im bored of this argument now I would rather concentrate on the fact we have a good manager and are in the top 4. Its clear to anybody who has a brain in their skull what Moyes did for the club but if rhe Moyes haiters want to rewrite the history books then just crack on, I cant be arsed with it anymore

Edited December 23, 2013 by duncanmckenzieismagic

[Hafnia]

Interesting point nikica made about fergie, corruption and cronies... I coukdnt agree more. That fella was as bent as a 9 bob note and was a manipulative git and a user.

 

He had no real love for united, they were a tool for him to feed his ego. As for the aforementioned managers who were in his little gang, I really can't disagree. Them being chums with SAF was like paying the mafia for protection... Compliant lap dogs.

 

Go on any united forum, they see Everton as a united feeder club. When we get top talent it is theirs to take and we get their rejects. The attitude is there regarding Barkley... "Let Everton keep him for another season to develop, we will give them £15m, cleverly and Anderson".

 

Unfortunately this relationship between Moyes and Ferguson created this, no doubt about that (as fergie would say). Hopefully now the ties between united and Everton are irreparable. I certainly don't envisage Martinez getting driven to Moyes house on a "very" regular basis to get lashed up...

 

The one thing that sums up SAF pure greed and self serving attitude is Rock of Gibraltar. You could argue that incident alone has saddled united with the glazers and saddled the club with debt. Roy Keane may be a bit of a cock but he wasn't wrong about SAF.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Hafnia

[Matt]

Rubecula, you keep on with this 'youngsters' strawman (giving the not so subtle implication that anyone who disagrees with you must be a kid who's been watching football for five minutes). The guy who's most on your side in this debate was born in 1993 - 7 years after I began following football.

 

Cut the ageism and stop debating like a coward.

Nikica, you know I enjoy your posting but youve gone OTT in this thread. Rubes is one of the most open minded posters we have on here so stop with the insults please.

[Matt]

Incidently, I remember Mike Walker too (just about), and he is one of the reasons Im grateful for Moyes' time in charge. But hes not anymore, so for me its "so long and thanks for all the fish".

[Bailey]

 

 

Yep!

 

We've had the lot, cars, Forrest Gump, Big dogs, Chris woods lovely brown legs.......all for he same reason, a bitterness and hatred of Moyes.Like Duncs has said, fuc%s sake let it go.We appear to have with us now an excellent manager, just enjoy it while it lasts.

 

surely the Moyes haters are forgetting a couple of things.Martinez walked away from Wigan for a bigger challange, he didn't stay and try and help them back into the prem! He doesn't/didn't love Wigan, he just did what he felt was right for him, probably just the same as Moyes has done.

 

Moyes came back to his old club for a couple of players, Martinez went back to Wigan for who he thought were two of their best players, it seems it's ok when Martinez does it but not Moyes.Don't use the bullshit Moyes tried to get them on the cheap, it's what any business man would do.

 

Get over it Moyes doesn't love Everton, neither does Martinez.He (Martinez), unless we are lucky will move on one day, and don't cry into your beer if he comes back for our best players, it's just how it works.

 

What's exciting about Martinez is, he has a philosophy, if he can build a team, a squad, a club around this, then with the bit of luck that's always needed, that club will go places.

 

The better he does, I'm afraid the more chance we have of a spanish giant, or a major champions league team coming for him.He's probably the spark this club needed, even without the rich Russian or Arab you feel he can move us forward.

 

Martinez turned down the rs, he could have turned us down......but he didn't !

 

I think everything about this club struck a cord, the chairman, the existing squad, the fans, the history.....the state of the club!

The state/the standing of this club is in part down to Moyes, like it or not.

 

I still feel without Moyes there wouldn't have been a Martinez.Moyes came to this club at the right time, hopefully Martinez can now bring that philosophy and make us even better.

 

I understand the love for Martinez, but not the hate for Moyes.

 

I dont think anyone really cares that Moyes has left and most people on here gave him a warm send off when he did go, as Im sure Wigan fans did to Martinez.

 

Its Moyes' acts since leaving that have rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way as they are disrespectful and completely unnecessary. Martinez went for his old players and didn't say a peep whilst apparently Moyes thinks we should be selling our best players so that they can better themselves at Man Utd for peanuts.

 

No one is arguing that Moyes isn't a big part of our history and his role in establishing us to a respectable position within the league should not be forgotten but at the same time, lets not get carried away either.

 

As you say, we have a fresh, new, forward thinking manager and I cant wait to watch us play again.

 

[StevO]

The truth hurts? I'm glad Moyes has gone ffs, I'd wanted him gone for ages. I'm just sick of the analogies; they were funny at first and now they're boring. Say. What. You. Mean.

We were ok, but now we are dead good!

[Romey 1878]

We were ok, but now we are dead good!

Much better, thank you, Steve!

[Cornish Steve]

we are dead good!

 

That puts us in a grave situation.

[marcopaulo]

 

That puts us in a grave situation.

 

:major overreaction alert: :major overreaction alert: :major overreaction alert: :major overreaction alert:

[c1982]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2528973/Everton-exactly-position-Christmas-David-Moyes.html

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2528973/Everton-exactly-position-Christmas-David-Moyes.html

 

 

Lol I dont think I need to comment on that

[Romey 1878]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2528973/Everton-exactly-position-Christmas-David-Moyes.html

 

 

Shit, I just posted this elsewhere.

[Matt]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2528973/Everton-exactly-position-Christmas-David-Moyes.html

excellent write up

[pete0]

RM beating utd at OT something Moyes never done, is cancelled out by Moyes winning at Goodison.. 4 points less having played a game more, yeah thats the same.. .DailyFail. Moyes was only 13 points from top from that poor Man U side, joint 5th with the mighty WBA. Big difference between joint 5th with Chelsea 2 points from top. Also how are they weaker, they all spent £30+ mil this year and Spurs aside didn't let anyone go?

[MikeO]

excellent write up

 

I think it's every bit as one sided as Haf's accused of being personally....as pointed out in many of the comments (actually added one myself yesterday but lost it trying to register).

[Mogsy]

And we have only lost one game so far and have the tightest defence in the league!!

[barryj]

 

Second, the reason people (Hafnia) mentions Moyes is because you have people here slavishly defending him, when he doesn't deserve it

Well I've been managing to hold out of this debate until now. The above comments are ludicrous! Moyes took our club and pulled it out of the dark ages. I remember being thrashed by Wimbledon just staying by the skin of our teeth in the league and never knowing where our next win would come from. Moyes on the whole did well in the transfer market and got us one top four finish. So there is my and others right to defend him. However, in the last couple of years I got annoyed with his tactical decisions and negativity and felt he should go. I also wasn't pleased in the manner he left, but if he hadn't gone we wouldn't now have Martinez so that's forgiven. I for one am a huge Martinez supporter as my dad is an avid Swansea fan and I stated he would be in my opinion the correct manager for everton as I saw first hand what he did at Swansea. (Check the Martinez thread). So in summary I'm really bored with this whole Martinez Moyes debate as I think everything has worked out for the best. Moyes deserves some credit for his 10 years and Martinez has me excited and thoughly enjoying my football. Happy Christmas!

[Matt]

I think it's every bit as one sided as Haf's accused of being personally....as pointed out in many of the comments (actually added one myself yesterday but lost it trying to register).

true, but it's still well presented (facts, explanation, etc.)

 

Anyway Grandad, get off here!

[MikeO]

true, but it's still well presented (facts, explanation, etc.)

 

Anyway Grandad, get off here!

 

 

One fact that'd be really interesting would be what odds we were with the bookies to win the title this time last year....but I can see no way of finding out. I reckon we'd probably have been around 500/1 against 25/1 today.....would tell you what people looking at it from a totally unemotional perspective think of the comparative positions & prospects.

[barryj]

 

One fact that'd be really interesting would be what odds we were with the bookies to win the title this time last year....but I can see no way of finding out. I reckon we'd probably have been around 500/1 against 25/1 today.....would tell you what people looking at it from a totally unemotional perspective think of the comparative positions & prospects.

Yep, but that doesn't just look at Everton (wether we are now better or worse etc) as the odds obviously reflect the opposition. Still interesting though.

[Hafnia]

A great comment on this is attached below...not mine btw

 

 

Multiple things wrong with this article. 1) Everton currently have 34 points, 4 points more than they had at the same stage last season. 2) Everton are currently 2 points off 1st place in the league. At the same stage last season, Everton were 12 points off 1st place. 3) Everton have 4 away wins so far this season - the same number they achieved in the WHOLE of last season. 4) You're comparing a home win over Man Utd with an away win over Man Utd, and a home draw with Arsenal with an away draw with Arsenal as like-for-like achievements when they clearly aren't. 5) Moyes never won away at 'Sky 4' club in 11 years at Everton. Martinez won away at Man Utd in his first attempt. 6) Everton have a better goal difference than they did at the same stage last season. 7) Everton have conceded less goals this season, than they had done under Moyes at the same stage last season. Everton are in a far better place under Martinez than they were under Moyes. Author seems to be a Moyes apologist.

[MikeO]

Pedant alert!

A great comment on this is attached below...not mine btw


Multiple things wrong with this article. 1) Everton currently have 34 points, 4 points more than they had at the same stage last season. 2) Everton are currently 2 points off 1st place in the league. At the same stage last season, Everton were 12 points off 1st place. 3) Everton have 4 away wins so far this season - the same number they achieved in the WHOLE of last season. 4) You're comparing a home win over Man Utd with an away win over Man Utd, and a home draw with Arsenal with an away draw with Arsenal as like-for-like achievements when they clearly aren't. 5) Moyes never won away at 'Sky 4' club in 11 years at Everton. Martinez won away at Man Utd in his first attempt. 6) Everton have a better goal difference than they did at the same stage last season. 7) Everton have conceded less goals this season, than they had done under Moyes at the same stage last season. Everton are in a far better place under Martinez than they were under Moyes. Author seems to be a Moyes apologist.

Actually at the same stage last season (ie after seventeen games) we were fifteen points off the top, not twelve. It only drops to twelve when you add our win at West Ham on the 22nd....when United didn't have a game.

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2012-2013/table/2012-12-17

[Matt]

More fool me for believing a journo had done his homework, especially from the Daily Fail

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

A great comment on this is attached below...not mine btw

 

 

Multiple things wrong with this article. 1) Everton currently have 34 points, 4 points more than they had at the same stage last season. 2) Everton are currently 2 points off 1st place in the league. At the same stage last season, Everton were 12 points off 1st place. 3) Everton have 4 away wins so far this season - the same number they achieved in the WHOLE of last season. 4) You're comparing a home win over Man Utd with an away win over Man Utd, and a home draw with Arsenal with an away draw with Arsenal as like-for-like achievements when they clearly aren't. 5) Moyes never won away at 'Sky 4' club in 11 years at Everton. Martinez won away at Man Utd in his first attempt. 6) Everton have a better goal difference than they did at the same stage last season. 7) Everton have conceded less goals this season, than they had done under Moyes at the same stage last season. Everton are in a far better place under Martinez than they were under Moyes. Author seems to be a Moyes apologist.

 

 

That really is an irratating comment

 

The journalist has quoted a string of facts to back up his comments and yet because his opinion is different than yours he is an "apologist" ????

[MikeO]

 

 

That really is an irratating comment

 

The journalist has quoted a string of facts to back up his comments and yet because his opinion is different than yours he is an "apologist" ????

 

I don't like the word "apologist" but to tell the truth he's quoted the facts that back up his argument and ignored the ones that don't, so (as I said) it's a very unbalanced article.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

I don't like the word "apologist" but to tell the truth he's quoted the facts that back up his argument and ignored the ones that don't, so (as I said) it's a very unbalanced article.

 

 

But surely if you are admitting that they are facts , even if they arent the complete story, then there is enough substance to suggest that moyes was doing something right?

 

I get the fact that Martinez has taken the shackles off, and we are now playing better football

 

I get the fact that people are upset about his antics in the summer

 

I get the fact that we had gone stale under Moyes and a parting of the ways was in the best interests of everyone

 

What I dont get is how or why people want to rewrite history and make out he was a bad manager and above all else I really cant fathom how anybody can say that our defensive resolve this season has got nothing to do with Moyes when every single defender that has been used this season, incuding the keeper, were signed by him

 

Haf would have you beleive that BK is the worst chairman in the game, that Moyes is a money grabbing second rate Sunday league manager and that Elstone and the Board are all clowns. If thats the case how have we managed to evolve from the shambles of a club we were under Johnson and Smith into the team we are today?

 

Somebody somewhere must have been doing something right and if its not down to the Chairman, the manager or the Board then who the fuck is it down to?

[MikeO]

 

But surely if you are admitting that they are facts , even if they arent the complete story, then there is enough substance to suggest that moyes was doing something right?

 

 

Not doubting that....not in the Haf camp on this, though I understand and agree with some of what he says.

 

I just thought that article in particular was a very poor one....just as one sided as Haf's views.

[Blue 250]

 

 

But surely if you are admitting that they are facts , even if they arent the complete story, then there is enough substance to suggest that moyes was doing something right?

 

I get the fact that Martinez has taken the shackles off, and we are now playing better football

 

I get the fact that people are upset about his antics in the summer

 

I get the fact that we had gone stale under Moyes and a parting of the ways was in the best interests of everyone

 

What I dont get is how or why people want to rewrite history and make out he was a bad manager and above all else I really cant fathom how anybody can say that our defensive resolve this season has got nothing to do with Moyes when every single defender that has been used this season, incuding the keeper, were signed by him

 

Haf would have you beleive that BK is the worst chairman in the game, that Moyes is a money grabbing second rate Sunday league manager and that Elstone and the Board are all clowns. If thats the case how have we managed to evolve from the shambles of a club we were under Johnson and Smith into the team we are today?

 

Somebody somewhere must have been doing something right and if its not down to the Chairman, the manager or the Board then who the fuck is it down to?

 

Bill's an old softy and Moyes isn't perfect, but between them they turned around my football club when it was heading down the 'pan'.

 

If Martinez can better Moyse then good times are ahead.