Martinez won't last the season

[Hafnia]

im saying hes inherited a team that needs a clean out, just like Everton did when he arrived.... But im not going round in circles...

 

They have just won the league Matt and were unlucky not to beat Real Madrid in the quarters of the champions league?

 

Clear out? a little harsh on a team who wrapped up the league with pointys to spare.

 

I kinda see where you are going in terms of "they need one or two players" but he didn't do that. We needed a few and Martinez delivered that to be fair.

[Lowensda]

 

They have just won the league Matt and were unlucky not to beat Real Madrid in the quarters of the champions league?

 

Clear out? a little harsh on a team who wrapped up the league with pointys to spare.

 

I kinda see where you are going in terms of "they need one or two players" but he didn't do that. We needed a few and Martinez delivered that to be fair.

 

Are you 5?

[MikeO]

stop with the car talk now

 

I agree....the time has come to put the brakes on it before the thread swerves out of its lane .

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

They have just won the league Matt and were unlucky not to beat Real Madrid in the quarters of the champions league?

 

Clear out? a little harsh on a team who wrapped up the league with pointys to spare.

 

I kinda see where you are going in terms of "they need one or two players" but he didn't do that. We needed a few and Martinez delivered that to be fair.

 

United only won the league because of the poor form of Chelsea and Man City, every football fan I speak to seems to ackowledge that. Even most Man Utd supporters would admit that there current squad just isnt good enough

 

I agree with Matt , I rhink they need a complete overhaul not just one or two players

 

The state of the squad SAF left behind reminds me a bit of when Dalglish left the Shite and Souness inherited a really poor squad and took all the flack

[Matt]

 

They have just won the league Matt and were unlucky not to beat Real Madrid in the quarters of the champions league?

 

Clear out? a little harsh on a team who wrapped up the league with pointys to spare.

 

I kinda see where you are going in terms of "they need one or two players" but he didn't do that. We needed a few and Martinez delivered that to be fair.

Ive acknowledged that!

 

Martinez has inherited a aging team too, but added youth where he could. Hes building for the future too, just like Moyes has too, hes just started a bit quicker.

 

 

But Im not saying they need one or two players - they need a clear out for the long term.

 

Maybe its just me, but Utd won the league because others were worse than them, rather than them being better as well as a dogged spirit (think they were only ahead of us in coming from behind to win). They need a completely new midfield, a completely new defence (RB, CB pairing and LB) and a new striker for a long term fix. Im highlighting this because thats the big difference for me. To compete at the very top whilst building a new team is harder than introducing youth to a stable (albeit aging) team.

 

This is not a knock against Martinez by any stretch. He hasnt had an easy job either. In fact, comparing the 2 positions is pointless because of the differences.

 

Anyway, this is off topic from my initial response. I was simply responding to Trevs initial question:

 

 

Yes but in this day and age of managers getting sacked why is moyes getting any credit when it offsets what he is doing with his inheritence? He is getting credit for somebody excelling. Is that right?

 

no, hes getting credit (rightly so) for putting the foundations in place for someone to excel.

 

[Matt]

 

United only won the league because of the poor form of Chelsea and Man City, every football fan I speak to seems to ackowledge that. Even most Man Utd supporters would admit that there current squad just isnt good enough

 

I agree with Matt , I rhink they need a complete overhaul not just one or two players

 

The state of the squad SAF left behind reminds me a bit of when Dalglish left the Shite and Souness inherited a really poor squad and took all the flack

Its not just me then

[marcopaulo]

 

United only won the league because of the poor form of Chelsea and Man City, every football fan I speak to seems to ackowledge that. Even most Man Utd supporters would admit that there current squad just isnt good enough

 

I agree with Matt , I rhink they need a complete overhaul not just one or two players

 

The state of the squad SAF left behind reminds me a bit of when Dalglish left the Shite and Souness inherited a really poor squad and took all the flack

 

not haf's utd mates i bet his chelsea mate and city mate would disagree too

[Matt]

 

I agree....the time has come to put the brakes on it before the thread swerves out of its lane .

think you just accelerated that mate

[Lowensda]

think you just accelerated that mate

 

These threads always journey off and they never finish at their true destinations.

[Blue 250]

stop with the car talk now

 

martinez has done brilliant but the season isn't over yet

 

Oh my God, in a thread with so many words, the man saying the least makes the most sence!

[Cornish Steve]

he wasnt tuning a car because the car was a heap of junk. He rebuild this team into something stable again, and to completely ignore what hes accomplished is just crazy. The rest of the post I wont go into...

 

But this is the point: David Moyes is able to find talent at bargain prices. He can build good cars. He can build something stable. BUT, he has no track record of achieving great things. This was his problem at Everton, and it will be his problem at ManU. He may be a good builder, but he's not an achiever.

[Blue 250]

 

But this is the point: David Moyes is able to find talent at bargain prices. He can build good cars. He can build something stable. BUT, he has no track record of achieving great things. This was his problem at Everton, and it will be his problem at ManU. He may be a good builder, but he's not an achiever.

 

 

When Everton first entrusted Howard Kendall to become manager he had no track record of achieving anything 'great', he went on to become Our most successful manager......when we took him back years later with ' a track record of achieving 'great' things', well we know what happened.

 

Moyes came to Everton pretty much unknown, he went on to turn the club around, he achieved lots of things, so okay in your eyes they weren't 'great' things.....but how many managers in the last 10 years without mega money have achieved 'great' things!

 

Matts correct, to ignore what Moyes did for Everton is crazy.

 

Moyes maybe didn't achieve 'great' things at Everton, though perhaps stopping our free fall into the lower divisions then building us into a consistant top 6 team shouldn't be written off as 'minor'.

 

Everton were ready for a change and maybe Martinez is the man ready to complete the job, but remember he turned down the rs because he didn't like what he saw there, he took the Everton job because he knew he could build on what was here, he must have seen something good here, he was surely always going to be able to pick a his club if he'd turned down both us and the rs so close together.He was destined to move on up, he chose Everton, that has lot to do with the foundations Moyes laid.

 

If Martinez get's us top 4 a couple of times and/or wins us a trophy (whilst keeping us a regular top 6), the he will have moved us on from Moyes, only time will tell, we can only hope.

 

I'm still gratefull to Moyes for saving Everton from the shit they were in a decade ago and giving me some pride back.

[Cornish Steve]

I should have defined great things. Winning a trophy, for one. Beating the other top teams at home and away, for two. Viewed as a CL-capable team, for three.

 

That's not to say that Moyes is not a great builder. But he is not a great achiever.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Cornish Steve

[Blue 250]

I should have defined great things. Winning a trophy, for one. Beating the other top teams at home and away, for two. Viewed as a CL-capable team, for three. That's not to say that Moyes is not a great builder. But he is not a great achiever.

only about 4 managers in the last 10 years have 'managed' teams viewed as CL- capable, they on the whole have 'managed' teams with mighty finacial backing, I can remember many 'small' teams being able to achieve victories at home and away to 'top teams', at the same time being unable to mount a decent challange on a consistant top 6 position, my point being it's ok to win at Anfield, but I'd rather lose to the rs and finish above them to be honest.

 

Not too many managers again outside the big boys have won many trophies over the last few years, one exception being our own Martinez....but then he was also relegated the same season, would you have found that acceptable from Moyes!

[Sideliner]

which manager inherited the best squad with the most money available and which manager has done more this season with much less?

Martinez wins the race by a country mile and more -

Moyes is trying to take credit for the achievements of Martinez who is showing him how it should have been done -

if Everton was in the relegation zone now Moyes would have said nothing about sound foundations -

i would love to hear Sir Alex's response to the Moyes suggestion that he left him an outdated team that needs an overhaul - utter rubbish -

Moyes is just shifting the blame as he always does - he only takes credits - no criticism - real politician

[c1982]

Moyes has inherited a poor Man U squad (by their standards) - anyone can surely see this!!! Obviously they deserved to win the league as they won the most points but like many have said Chelsea and Man C made it easier than it maybe should have been.

[Quinn31]

which manager inherited the best squad with the most money available and which manager has done more this season with much less?

Martinez wins the race by a country mile and more -

Moyes is trying to take credit for the achievements of Martinez who is showing him how it should have been done -

if Everton was in the relegation zone now Moyes would have said nothing about sound foundations -

i would love to hear Sir Alex's response to the Moyes suggestion that he left him an outdated team that needs an overhaul - utter rubbish -

Moyes is just shifting the blame as he always does - he only takes credits - no criticism - real politician

All managers shift blame. That's how you survive. I think this Man U team is quite weak. A bunch of above average players mixed in with a few outdated stars and only a few real world beaters (RVP, Rooney at his best, De Gea is an up and comer)...

[Guest Nikica]

I've been saying for ages that Ferguson left Moyes with numerous problems - total neglect of that squad. That doesn't give Moyes a free pass though as he still isn't good enough to manage them.

 

As far as Everton goes, he did a lot to sort you out, credit to him for that, but he outstayed his welcome by about five years. You should have got rid of him ages ago. As I've said before, guys like him and gormless Phil Neville tried to make you feel small and like making top 10 was 'a fantastic achievement'. Based on wage bill you were finishing on par every season.

[Bailey]

 

United only won the league because of the poor form of Chelsea and Man City, every football fan I speak to seems to ackowledge that. Even most Man Utd supporters would admit that there current squad just isnt good enough

 

I agree with Matt , I rhink they need a complete overhaul not just one or two players

 

The state of the squad SAF left behind reminds me a bit of when Dalglish left the Shite and Souness inherited a really poor squad and took all the flack

 

 

Moyes has inherited a poor Man U squad (by their standards) - anyone can surely see this!!! Obviously they deserved to win the league as they won the most points but like many have said Chelsea and Man C made it easier than it maybe should have been.

 

Lets not forget that aside from Arsenal, those teams arent firing again this year either! By the end of the season he might have turned things around and got ahead of them again but if last years PL was shit and this years probably isnt too much better.

 

Moyes didnt get the greatest of squads, it had issues, ones that had been around for a while but he was fundamentally left with a squad capable of winning the league. Moyes then did absolutely nothing about addressing these issues and unsurprisingly he has the same problems as Fergie but doesnt have his managerial ability.

 

Martinez didnt get the greatest of squads as it too had issues that we all know have been around for a while, but he went and did something about it.

 

As I have said before, if Moyes can get us around the top 6 regularly, then he can get Utd around the top 4. They will start playing some decent footy sooner or later but it wont last and people around the country will probably be having the same conversations this time next season!

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Quote from Sylan Distin in The Telegraph

 

 

"Ninety per cent of the players here David Moyes bought and it is David Moyes who has put this winning mentality in the head as well for 10 years,” said defender Sylvain Distin.

“So if people feel like one manager now is doing what the other hasn’t been doing for 10 years, the base has actually been built by the ex manager, and the new manager is just tuning things.”

[Hafnia]

Quote from Sylan Distin in The Telegraph

 

 

"Ninety per cent of the players here David Moyes bought and it is David Moyes who has put this winning mentality in the head as well for 10 years, said defender Sylvain Distin.

So if people feel like one manager now is doing what the other hasnt been doing for 10 years, the base has actually been built by the ex manager, and the new manager is just tuning things.

Stick to football and delivering milk Sylvain lad. From our average 11 you have Barry, McCarthy, lukaku, Deulofeu and in fairness Barkley (for all Moyes used him) - 55%-65% all in one window... I wouldn't say fine tuning either, I would say rebuilding the engine.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Stick to football and delivering milk Sylvain lad. From our average 11 you have Barry, McCarthy, lukaku, Deulofeu and in fairness Barkley (for all Moyes used him) - 55%-65% all in one window... I wouldn't say fine tuning either, I would say rebuilding the engine.

 

No surprise there then!

[Hafnia]

 

No surprise there then!

No, the style of football and attitude has been night and day difference. Not just the new players, Moyes old style defenders pass the ball, I've seen jags bring it out of defence the lot.

 

It's a bit like playing fifa online and you are battering some opponent, they have a good team but are just shite at the game... Then they clearly hand over the controller to big brother and cone back and batter you. Martinez is that big brother.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Hafnia

[Guest]

Getting sick of Duncan's love in with moyes for fucks sake. Did you wank off over walters nine at the back formation aswell? I appreciate you value the job he did. And to a point we all did but he isn't here any more some of us like to feel bitter how he went and how shite he is doing I just don't get why you spend so much effort defending him

[markjazzbassist]

Amen trev I said the same thing in another thread. Dunc should just become a Man U fan now that moyes is there.

[DLK]

It's a bit like playing fifa online and you are battering some opponent, they have a good team but are just shite at the game... Then they clearly hand over the controller to big brother and cone back and batter you. Martinez is that big brother.

 

I appreciate the analogy. Well said.

[Guest Nikica]

Distin's comment seems to reinforce the not undeserved stereotype that 99% of footballers are as thick as fuck. What an idiot - if I was Martinez I'd be looking to move him on pronto after comments like that, regardless of his ability.

 

Oh, and Distin saying Moyes introduced a 'winning mentality'

 

Most of this era's players are dickhead prima donnas who should keep their stupid mouths shut and stick to the only thing they're good at - kicking a ball.

 

Oh, and the worst thing about it is - given how Martinez has adjusted Distin and Jagielka's role - Distin more than most of your players should recognise that he's done more than 'fine tune things'. I hope this isn't a general sentiment in your dressing room.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Nikica

[c1982]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/5338908/Barcelona-keep-tabs-on-Roberto-Martinez.html

 

Warning it's a Sun (scum) link so some may not want to open it.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Getting sick of Duncan's love in with moyes for fucks sake. Did you wank off over walters nine at the back formation aswell? I appreciate you value the job he did. And to a point we all did but he isn't here any more some of us like to feel bitter how he went and how shite he is doing I just don't get why you spend so much effort defending him

I dont have a love in with Moyes at all , I have said many a time in here that I would rather not be discussing him as he isnt our manager anymore. The reason I spend so much effort defending him is because others spend so much effort trying to wipe out everything he did for the club in the past 10 years

 

The entire point of a forum is to air your views and debate footaball matters and just because I dont want to jump on the band wagon and bash Moyes makes you sick?

 

I presume I am entitled to have an opinion as long as it ties in with yours?

 

Amen trev I said the same thing in another thread. Dunc should just become a Man U fan now that moyes is there.

 

 

Oh the irony a keyboard warrior from The States telling me I shouldnt support my club

 

 

Im off to Swansea now what are you doing today?

[Romey 1878]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/21/steven-pienaar-roberto-martinez-everton

 

 

"We beat Fulham 4-1 the other day and he was annoyed because some of the players hadn't looked like they were enjoying themselves. Winning is not enough, he wants us to win with a smile on our face."

 

 

Positivity has taken such a hold that, to the other players' amusement, Baines turned up for training the day after his injury. "He wants to be out there every day," Pienaar says. "After we had got over the shock we all said: 'Take a break! It's not going to happen overnight.'"

 

 

"It is too early to talk of expectations at the moment, better just to keep on enjoying our football. That is all Martínez ever asks us to do. In the dressing room before the Arsenal game he just said: 'Get over your fears. This is a moment to enjoy.' That was his team talk. And the thing is, that is exactly what we did."

 

 

Roberto, I love you!

Edited December 22, 2013 by Romey 1878