Martinez won't last the season

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Yes but in this day and age of managers getting sacked why is moyes getting any credit when it offsets what he is doing with his inheritence? He is getting credit for somebody excelling. Is that right?

 

 

which manager inherited the best squad with the most money available and which manager has done more this season with much less?

Martinez wins the race by a country mile and more -

Moyes is trying to take credit for the achievements of Martinez who is showing him how it should have been done -

if Everton was in the relegation zone now Moyes would have said nothing about sound foundations -

i would love to hear Sir Alex's response to the Moyes suggestion that he left him an outdated team that needs an overhaul - utter rubbish -

Moyes is just shifting the blame as he always does - he only takes credits - no criticism - real politician

 

 

Total joke of a story from Samuel. To say we had a good defence is one thing under moyes but if we were playing the exact type of football under Roberto and sneaking 1-0s 2-1s I'd take the point but we aren't. Roberto has changed the entire philophysy of the club in fifteen games! We will get top four this year I'm convinced

 

And when I quoted Sylvan Distin saying that Moyes had built the foundations of this side and Roberto had come in and done some fine tuning....

 

Stick to football and delivering milk Sylvain lad. From our average 11 you have Barry, McCarthy, lukaku, Deulofeu and in fairness Barkley (for all Moyes used him) - 55%-65% all in one window... I wouldn't say fine tuning either, I would say rebuilding the engine.

 

 

Distin's comment seems to reinforce the not undeserved stereotype that 99% of footballers are as thick as fuck. What an idiot - if I was Martinez I'd be looking to move him on pronto after comments like that, regardless of his ability.

 

Oh, and Distin saying Moyes introduced a 'winning mentality'

 

Most of this era's players are dickhead prima donnas who should keep their stupid mouths shut and stick to the only thing they're good at - kicking a ball.

 

Oh, and the worst thing about it is - given how Martinez has adjusted Distin and Jagielka's role - Distin more than most of your players should recognise that he's done more than 'fine tune things'. I hope this isn't a general sentiment in your dressing room.

 

 

 

No that's not what they are saying Dunc, that is just what you want to believe they are saying.

 

 

Exactly.

 

There are plenty of comments these journo's could have made about the good things Moyes did at the club, such as the signings he made on a budget or the team spirit and togetherness he instilled but the two articles posted by the same bullshit paper cant even get their story straight and it has quite rightly been ripped apart for the lazy journalism that it is.

 

 

Thank God for that , its all been a bad dream,!

[Bailey]

Thank God for that , its all been a bad dream,!

 

...and what about the rest of the posts in the thread?

 

Bar Trev's initial quote, none of the rest are saying Moyes shouldn't get any credit, they are stating that the article was talking a load of shite which is exactly what it does. You should work for the Daily Mail if you're going to use quotes like that as evidence. Sideliner compares both managers situations, Trev slates the article and highlights the massive improvement in the philosophy at the club under Martinez and both Haf & Nikica disagree about the comments made that their is a lot more going on than just fine tuning giving the players that have been brought in and the style in which we are playing (especially at the back).

 

You seem to see those quotes as people saying Moyes was shit as Everton manager but they arent.

[Peter H]

Cant we just move on now? Happy days now regardless of who has done their job. RM is here, we all love him. Moyes has gone. I dont care what he is up to now. Im just happy to be an Everton supporter and its not often happy and Everton supporter are in the same sentance. Cant we just enjoy this? Why do we have to have the DM vs RM discussion all of the time? DM did a fantastic job. RM rebuilt the midfield and gave the players a new way of looking at things, along with a bucket full of confidence. Built up Barkley, got the most out of a transfer window with limited funds to find 3 great loans and 1 great signing in McCarthy.

 

So fucking sick and tired of this discussion but its like pringles, once you pop, you cant stop reading.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Peter H

[Romey 1878]

Peter, I'm sending a virtual hug your way!

[Matt]

Hear hear Peter

[MikeO]

RM rebuilt the midfield and gave the players a new way of looking at things, along with a bucket full of confidence. Built up Barkley, got the most out of a transfer window with limited funds to find 3 great loans and 1 great signing in McCarthy.

 

But he only did that because Davey left a post-it on his desk giving him detailed instructions dammit :shaking fist:.

[rubecula]

Mike you are too old (and a grandad) to be using sarcasm. Try blatant insinuation instead

[marcopaulo]

Cant we just move on now? Happy days now regardless of who has done their job. RM is here, we all love him. Moyes has gone. I dont care what he is up to now. Im just happy to be an Everton supporter and its not often happy and Everton supporter are in the same sentance. Cant we just enjoy this? Why do we have to have the DM vs RM discussion all of the time? DM did a fantastic job. RM rebuilt the midfield and gave the players a new way of looking at things, along with a bucket full of confidence. Built up Barkley, got the most out of a transfer window with limited funds to find 3 great loans and 1 great signing in McCarthy.

 

So fucking sick and tired of this discussion but its like pringles, once you pop, you cant stop reading.

 

 

get the man a fuckin lollipop!!!!!

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/01/01/is-roberto-martinez-the-best-manager-in-the-premier-league/

[Hafnia]

http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/01/01/is-roberto-martinez-the-best-manager-in-the-premier-league/

Good write up, just hope he will stay and turn us into a major force again.

[markjazzbassist]

Good write up, just hope he will stay and turn us into a major force again.

 

yeah the rumors of a bigger club grabbing him have already started. i'm not too worried, but it's unnerving to say the least.

[Quinn31]

 

yeah the rumors of a bigger club grabbing him have already started. i'm not too worried, but it's unnerving to say the least.

The thing is the names tossed around have been Barcelona and that like. Not yet. If Wenger left Arsenal, though, I could see them going for him, maybe an Athletico Madrid?

[markjazzbassist]

Yeah it's not so much the names, it's just articles i read that he's doing so well it's inevitable that he'll be top of the lists for some bigger clubs who oust their managers at the end of the campaign.

[StevO]

No need to worry, everyone saw at Wigan that he is loyal. He wont be going anywhere.

[Hafnia]

He is part of a project now that carries more weight than it would by going to a club like one of the top 4, real or barca and delivering the expected league titles.

 

Everton as we are now represents the sweet spot of ambition versus impact potential... He knows he can turn us from plucky under achievers into an awoken giant. He sees players coming through and knows we are a few more acquisitions away from a real title potential team.

 

If he achieves champions league, the money generated should pave the way for very interesting times for the club.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

No need to worry, everyone saw at Wigan that he is loyal. He wont be going anywhere.

 

 

How do you define loyal?

 

He spoke to Villa and The Shite before accepting the job at Everton so it seems to me like he was just waiting for the right job to come around.

[Quinn31]

If the right job comes around, he's not staying. If for some reason, Barca came knocking, he'd be gone.

[Hafnia]

 

 

How do you define loyal?

 

He spoke to Villa and The Shite before accepting the job at Everton so it seems to me like he was just waiting for the right job to come around.

Loyalty may well be defined as choosing to stay with a smaller club and rejecting the advances of two big clubs who would quadruple his wages.

 

Then after delivering an fa cup and falling for the inevitable relegation with Wigan opting for a club who proved would give him the opportunity and time to instill his brand of football. In other words the right project for him.

 

Loyalty and respect go hand in hand, respect isn't insulting your former employers to gain favour with your new ones. Example... Martinez encouraged the correct approach for alcaraz, McCarthy,and kone... Moyes disregarded his previous employers to try and steal prized assets and insult them into the bargain.

[StevO]

 

 

How do you define loyal?

 

He spoke to Villa and The Shite before accepting the job at Everton so it seems to me like he was just waiting for the right job to come around.

 

He spoke to them, and his public response, whether true or not was that he felt he owed them another year.

As much as it pains me to say it, the Liverpool job is huge, and he didnt take.

[Hafnia]

I was gutted when he was looking odds on for Liverpool, he was on the flight back from Barbados and I just wanted to go up and tell him "do not manage Liverpool" like Steve says you cantvdeny that managing Liverpool is a huge job.

 

My honest opinion... If Martinez was at Liverpool, they would be winning the league this season. Give us Suarez and we would go very close indeed.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Loyalty may well be defined as choosing to stay with a smaller club and rejecting the advances of two big clubs who would quadruple his wages.

 

Then after delivering an fa cup and falling for the inevitable relegation with Wigan opting for a club who proved would give him the opportunity and time to instill his brand of football. In other words the right project for him.

 

Loyalty and respect go hand in hand, respect isn't insulting your former employers to gain favour with your new ones. Example... Martinez encouraged the correct approach for alcaraz, McCarthy,and kone... Moyes disregarded his previous employers to try and steal prized assets and insult them into the bargain.

 

 

Alcaraz was a free agent so had nothing to do with Wigan, Kone we paid over the odds for so Wigan were happy and the McCarthy deal had Dave Whelan calling us all the names under the sun because he felt our offer was a disgrace so not too different than the Fellaini deal

 

Im not knocking Roberto for speaking to bigger clubs and wanting to better himself but I cant see how people canmake him out to be loyal

 

He was at Swansea 2 years before a bigger job came up at Wigan and he left

 

He was at Wigan for 4 years and spoke to 2 other clubs before finally quitting to become our manager

 

Sorry but that doesnt sound particularly loyal to me!

[Louis]

He's one of the guests on 5 live tonight from 7pm,

[Hafnia]

 

 

Alcaraz was a free agent so had nothing to do with Wigan, Kone we paid over the odds for so Wigan were happy and the McCarthy deal had Dave Whelan calling us all the names under the sun because he felt our offer was a disgrace so not too different than the Fellaini deal

 

Im not knocking Roberto for speaking to bigger clubs and wanting to better himself but I cant see how people canmake him out to be loyal

 

He was at Swansea 2 years before a bigger job came up at Wigan and he left

 

He was at Wigan for 4 years and spoke to 2 other clubs before finally quitting to become our manager

 

Sorry but that doesnt sound particularly loyal to me!

 

Kone had a release clause of £6m, we didn't faff about and try to buy Kone plus McCarthy for £12m... nor did we start telling the press that Wigan are holding their careers back by not selling them to us...

 

Whelan is a businessman - he was the only person talking about the McCarthy bid... he was using sky and BBC as a means of exposing Everton's interest to seek any other suitors in a bidding war - stating the £10.5m bid wasn't enough, however £13m was....

 

Football is a business and as far as business goes Martinez was a loyal manager to Wigan when he risked his managerial reputation by staying on managing a club which would eventually be relegated rather than getting a nice 5 year deal on £70k a week at Villa or Liverpool - why would he do that? Because of his football beliefs and desire to see a job through. He took Swansea and Wigan as far as they could be taken - sure he could have tried to get wigan back up or do the last act for swansea and get the play off or championship promo that was inevitable after his work within the infrastructure of the club.

 

The reality is that for Martinez his next chapter IMO is to reinstall a sleeping giant, once he does that why should he go to a United or Chelsea? You don't create a weapon to be used on yourself! The next step would be an international or Barca/Real manager.

[Quinn31]

http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?/topic/25811-musings-of-the-philosophy-of-loyalty-integrity-and-dignity-in-sport/

[Blue 250]

 

 

The reality is that for Martinez his next chapter IMO is to reinstall a sleeping giant, once he does that why should he go to a United or Chelsea? You don't create a weapon to be used on yourself! The next step would be an international or Barca/Real manager.

 

So what's the difference.......he'll still leave for the right job!

 

And as for him being loyal, with his desire to see the job through, staying with a sinking Wigan....oh, that had nothing to do with hanging around to win the FA cup

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

Kone had a release clause of £6m, we didn't faff about and try to buy Kone plus McCarthy for £12m... nor did we start telling the press that Wigan are holding their careers back by not selling them to us...

 

Whelan is a businessman - he was the only person talking about the McCarthy bid... he was using sky and BBC as a means of exposing Everton's interest to seek any other suitors in a bidding war - stating the £10.5m bid wasn't enough, however £13m was....

 

Football is a business and as far as business goes Martinez was a loyal manager to Wigan when he risked his managerial reputation by staying on managing a club which would eventually be relegated rather than getting a nice 5 year deal on £70k a week at Villa or Liverpool - why would he do that? Because of his football beliefs and desire to see a job through. He took Swansea and Wigan as far as they could be taken - sure he could have tried to get wigan back up or do the last act for swansea and get the play off or championship promo that was inevitable after his work within the infrastructure of the club.

 

The reality is that for Martinez his next chapter IMO is to reinstall a sleeping giant, once he does that why should he go to a United or Chelsea? You don't create a weapon to be used on yourself! The next step would be an international or Barca/Real manager.

 

 

Haf, what Moyes did or didnt do is completely irrelevant to the argument anyway

 

As I said Im not knocking Martinez and Im not making him out to be some sort of footballing mercenary, but the cold hard facts are that he has had 3 jobs in 6 years and he wasnt forced to leave any of them , now if you beleive that to be particularly loyal then so be it

Edited January 3, 2014 by duncanmckenzieismagic

[Hafnia]

 

 

Haf, what Moyes did or didnt do is completely irrelevant to the argument anyway

 

As I said Im not knocking Martinez and Im not making him out to be some sort of footballing mercenary, but the cold hard facts are that he has had 3 jobs in 6 years and he wasnt forced to leave any of them , now if you beleive that to be particularly loyal then so be it

Normally for most posters that is the case Dunc, however given that you have been keen to defend DM through thick and thin despite his shitty antics I pretty much knew there would be an undertone in there.

 

I've said before, Everton is what I support, not a player, manager, or chairman.

 

As a professional you set goals to achieve, and with due respect to Wigan and Swansea he achieved all he could and that was to revamp the footballing culture - the fa cup win, promotion or relegation were irrelevant... He put the wheels in motion and took small clubs to their max.

 

If he takes Everton to our max then that means truly great things for our club. Would I begrudge him the next step up? No.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Normally for most posters that is the case Dunc, however given that you have been keen to defend DM through thick and thin despite his shitty antics I pretty much knew there would be an undertone in there.

 

I've said before, Everton is what I support, not a player, manager, or chairman.

 

As a professional you set goals to achieve, and with due respect to Wigan and Swansea he achieved all he could and that was to revamp the footballing culture - the fa cup win, promotion or relegation were irrelevant... He put the wheels in motion and took small clubs to their max.

 

If he takes Everton to our max then that means truly great things for our club. Would I begrudge him the next step up? No.

 

Do I think Moyes is a godd manager? Yes I do

 

Is that even remotely relevant to this conversation? Absolutely not

 

So apart with the bit in bold, which is utter bollocks, I completely agree. As I keep saying Im not knocking Roberto

 

He did a fantastic job at both Swansea and Wigan and Im sure both sets of supporters appreciate that, but then he soon moved on to bigger and better things . People do that in all walks of life, its called building a career. I never begrudged Lescott his big move, nor did I begrudge Fellaini or Moyes theirs. So I certainly wouldnt hold it against Roberto but I just fail to see how people can bang on about his loyalty.

 

There was no undertone or hidden agenda in my comments just a simple strait forward opinion that 3 jobs in 6 years is not being particularly loyal

[Hafnia]

 

Do I think Moyes is a godd manager? Yes I do

 

Is that even remotely relevant to this conversation? Absolutely not

 

So apart with the bit in bold, which is utter bollocks, I completely agree. As I keep saying Im not knocking Roberto

 

He did a fantastic job at both Swansea and Wigan and Im sure both sets of supporters appreciate that, but then he soon moved on to bigger and better things . People do that in all walks of life, its called building a career. I never begrudged Lescott his big move, nor did I begrudge Fellaini or Moyes theirs. So I certainly wouldnt hold it against Roberto but I just fail to see how people can bang on about his loyalty.

 

There was no undertone or hidden agenda in my comments just a simple strait forward opinion that 3 jobs in 6 years is not being particularly loyal

Number of jobs in x amount of years doesnt necessarily indicate loyalty though, it indicates progress when starting at small clubs.

 

I certainly think that by rejecting Liverpool and Villa he has a clear objective as to what model he wants to work with.

 

Based on the same criteria I had no problem with Moyes going to united...I had a problem with how he did it and his disregard And disrespectful attitude when he did leave.

 

Interesting article...

http://app.tribalfootball.com/android.html?referrer=http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/man-utd-see-220m-wiped-share-value-under-moyes-4000142#article/tribalfootball-4000142

[Kev627]

I saw this and thought it quite amusing!