What constitutes an Everton legend...

[Matt]

great snap, and most poignant too.

 

I was giving some thought to Mr Hickson earlier today and just how many actual 'legend' names this club actually has remaining. I'd put Southall in there as I think he's deserving of that status, and then you'd have a legitimate case with others such as Sharp, Ratcliffe, Royle or even Latchford and Young, but for the most part, the last of our truly iconic names may have passed on now. Still a day after the event, sorry to learn of this news, and once again, extend sincere condolences to his immediate family and friends on this recent passing.

I think legends are determined by how long after they left/quit/died they were talked about. As I missed all the above playing (except Southall and Sharp) I only know of their status because how long they've been talked about. Cahill will be up there for me because of his heart alone, as will Baines, but not enough time has passes yet to prove me right or wrong.

 

Wholeheartedly disagree with Ferguson being considered a legend though....

[Dalziel Kane]

Cahill will be more of a legend at Millwall than any time with Everton, Baines nowhere near legendary status, as with Duncan Ferguson.

 

The only names truly deserving once again, you would be looking at William Dean, Sharp, Southall, Lawton, Hickson, Edward Sagar etc

 

then you'd have names that didn't quite make it but still great club servants and a slight cut above the rest. Labone, Young, Ratcliffe, Latchford, Lyons etc.

 

It's not always about how long you spent at any respective club, but simply what you contributed, but a bit of both goes a long way to determining who can be eventually be classified as legends of the game.

[Matt]

Cahill will be more of a legend at Millwall than any time with Everton, Baines nowhere near legendary status, as with Duncan Ferguson.

 

The only names truly deserving once again, you would be looking at William Dean, Sharp, Southall, Lawton, Hickson, Edward Sagar etc

 

then you'd have names that didn't quite make it but still great club servants and a slight cut above the rest. Labone, Young, Ratcliffe, Latchford, Lyons etc.

 

It's not always about how long you spent at any respective club, but simply what you contributed, but a bit of both goes a long way to determining who can be eventually be classified as legends of the game.

stopped reading here....

 

edit: morbid curiousity got the best of me. You completely missed my point. totally...

 

I didnt say how long the people had been with the club, I said how long after they were talked about.

 

On top of that, its all personal. I recognize the greats who have been, because Ive read about them. Ive lived the 90s-til present in football, so for me the likes of Cahill, Baines, Dave Watson, Ossie, Hibbert, Carsely are legends in my eyes. Why? Because Ive lived through it and watched them give their all for this club and they are the players I remember watching with pride. I cant compare them to the likes of Dixie Dean or Lawton or Hickson because I never saw them play (not to mention how the game has evolved and would they still be legends in todays game debate).

Edited July 16, 2013 by Matt

[Bailey]

stopped reading here....

 

Im surprised you got that far...

[Matt]

rather than let the Dave Hickson thread descend into chaos, I thought it would be better to move the debate here...

[Dalziel Kane]

Just quit with the fucking snides and say again, as an interest in both clubs, it's fair to say that the Australian has reached more of a legendary figure for them than at Everton, if people want to question it or raise objections that's their business but I don't need no goddamn argument

 

Yes if you like, this whole legends issue can be looked at from two different viewpoints.

 

#1 Individuals age and what they remember from following the team

 

#2 overall club history going back far enough and respective playing individuals

 

#2 was what was generally being discussed. There's another thread somewhere of this nature on these pages about this legends debate but if people want to discuss things from their own life experiences, that's fine, but I always put the issue into the biggest picture and look back on club history as a whole.

[Avinalaff]

Definitely post count.

[Shukes]

might be against a lot of people on here but for me Ferguson was a legend! Why?

 

The way i felt in the stadium when he was on the team sheet.

The way i felt when Cadamarteri put a 90th minute pen away at leicester and no-one celebreated more then Feguson.

The way i felt when he ran to the crowd after every goal.

The goals he scored against Man U and the other red team.

The way i still talk about him today like he was a god on the pitch.

 

Bobby Robson words "unplayable on his day"

 

Yes he wasnt the best role model. But niether were best, Gazza and a whole host of others.

[pete0]

Ferguson was capable of being a 20+ striker if he didn't spend half his career on his back. The bloke had everything, pity that included a love of pigeons and booze.

 

One £30 million defender was made a show of numerous times

[Matt]

might be against a lot of people on here but for me Ferguson was a legend! Why?

 

The way i felt in the stadium when he was on the team sheet.

The way i felt when Cadamarteri put a 90th minute pen away at leicester and no-one celebreated more then Feguson.

The way i felt when he ran to the crowd after every goal.

The goals he scored against Man U and the other red team.

The way i still talk about him today like he was a god on the pitch.

 

Bobby Robson words "unplayable on his day"

 

Yes he wasnt the best role model. But niether were best, Gazza and a whole host of others.

he always underachieved for me, especially in terms of his attitude.

[marcopaulo]

ferguson to me was a legend too...again like shukes said not a great role model and most certainly never made the most of his talent...but he made me feel something very few players do when he was on the pitch

[Hafnia]

Legends are relevant to their time, at the time we had Duncan, he single handedly made a team who were techically shite stand up and have a go. Yeah we know he did daft things, but he did great things to lift fans and players. Above all he loves the club and was brilliant with the fans.

[StevO]

Cahill will be more of a legend at Millwall than any time with Everton, Baines nowhere near legendary status, as with Duncan Ferguson.

 

The only names truly deserving once again, you would be looking at William Dean, Sharp, Southall, Lawton, Hickson, Edward Sagar etc

 

then you'd have names that didn't quite make it but still great club servants and a slight cut above the rest. Labone, Young, Ratcliffe, Latchford, Lyons etc.

 

It's not always about how long you spent at any respective club, but simply what you contributed, but a bit of both goes a long way to determining who can be eventually be classified as legends of the game.

 

Please please please tell me how Labone did not make it??? I'm close to snapping my own head off after reading that. Actually, Alex Young and Kevin Ratcliffe too.

Fuck it.

I'm out!

[Cornish Steve]

I'd suggest the following criteria against which to judge players:

 

1) Longevity with the club

2) Demonstrated commitment to the club over personal ambition

3) Strong bond with the fan base

4) When the person's name is mentioned, only one club comes to mind: Everton

[SimonButtle]

Dunc was more of a cult hero rather than a legend imo. Based on Cornish Steve's criteria id say Moyes only fits in with 2 of them.

-Longevity, well he's had that.

-Club over personal ambition? not so sure about that one, he made no secret to the likes of Neville(by all accounts) that he had eyes on the OT hot seat at some point, and i still think an element of tapping up has gone on, aside from him seemingly running out his contract to get to this point and clearly in his meeting at Fergie's house he didn't give us a second thought when offered the post.

-Strong bond with fan base. Id say it was and has always been fairly mixed towards Moyes

-When his name is mentioned. Well it will be mentioned with Everton until he achieves something with Untied imo.

[marcus jones]

Does Barry Donk, ahem..... ''Horne''.... deserve cult status? I mean he is an F.A cup winner with Everton, a blue-nose as a kid, and scored a 35 yarder to keep us up and is a true "Dog's of war" veteran.

[StevO]

Barry's status as a legend does not need to be questioned. It's almost an unwritten rule.

Sshhhh.

[marcus jones]

Barry's status as a legend does not need to be questioned. It's almost an unwritten rule.

Sshhhh.

:jump for joy:

[Hafnia]

Barry Horne, Graham Stuart, anders limpar - legends!

[Louis]

I find it hard to define what an Everton legend is. I don't think there are many. You have the obvious (Dixie Dean - top scorer), the successful (Catterick and Kendall), the long-lasting (Ratcliffe, Lyons, Southall, Labone, Sagar), yet I look at the list and see the likes of Lawton, Farrell, Young, Ball and Watson missing and I can't quite define why they should be there.

 

I don't think Ferguson or Cahill (or Neville - he's been the longest serving captain for decades) can be considered legends to be honest. Sometimes, people accomplish great feats playing for the club but their most playing career takes some of the reverence away.

[RuffRob]

Legends are just different things to different people and I don't think there are any hard and fast rules on the subject.

 

For example I don't personal see Ferguson as a legend (but that likely because I witnessed the last golden Everton age in the 80's) - but he definitely stands as a symbol in bleak times at the club, so I can fully understand how for people under the age of 35 (ish) have this talisman of a player at legendary status. He was nothing particularly special or spectacular as a player, but in a squad of predominantly mediocrity he stood out. He was a definite legend of his time, so if thats your time- then he is a legend, if you are longer in the tooth then perhaps not.

 

My own personal legend are the Southall's and the Sharp's et al from the team in the mid eighties, even the ageing Peter Reid and Andy Grey (who wasn't really at the club that long). but that's purely due to my age.

 

I didn't see any player before the 1980's so can only go on the word of other on the legendary status of the players before this era.

 

Legends are harder to find these days because player are so highly paid and have very little loyalty. I think Baines definitely has the making of a legend of our times, if he does stay loyal to Everton football club and continues in the form he has had over the last two season.

[Sibdane]

Baines will quietly become a legend for Everton. <br /><br />I can see Mirallas becoming one if he stays long enough.

[Peter H]

Big dunc is a legend!

 

A legend is a tale told long after it actually happened. We mention him every week in some form. End of discussion.

 

(how ever, I agree with cult hero, good way of describing him)

[Dalziel Kane]

People mention Horne in this issue simply on the basis of that goal against Wimbledon in 1994, but no mention of Gareth Farrelly. A name that was responsible for keeping the club out of second division soccer only four years down the line.

 

And if Horne is in it, then what about names such as Heath, Trebilcock, Whittle, King etc. Other players that scored important goals, so shouldn't we extend the courtesy and include them in it.

 

No - in the simplest terms. They simply aren't deserving of this status.

 

Said it before, there's two ways you can interpret this debate.

 

Names that scored important goals and fan favorites, Ferguson inclusive, and actual standout names such that has already been mentioned that were real class acts and fine attributes, long serving and widely recognized.

 

We have our ideas on who is deserving of legendary status and who isn't and it arouses some debate. It's what damn fan pages are for.

[Zoo]

Born in 1993 I've not lived long enough to see many legends that I can relate to. The problem with me is I find it hard to connect with many players with 'legend' status after they have gone (i.e. - Mikel Arteta) and some of the players that were legends went down-hill because of being with the club for too long (i.e - Tim Cahill). I'd say that the only legends I consider to have watched week in and week out are;

 

- Duncan Ferguson - Didn't reach his potential and was a nut-case on the pitch but had more passion in a blue shirt than I've seen in anyone since.

- Nigel Martyn - Probably the best goalkeeper I've seen in an Everton shirt and one who I don't think we've ever replaced.

[Guest]

I agree with RuffRob about legends are about different opinions. For me in my lifetime of watching Everton there are two. Southall and Dunc. For two different reasons. One was a master of his art one was a master of his domain. Nev needs no explanation Dunc wouldn't want you to try. My stepdad wouldn't cross the street to meet the queen but he idolised Alan Ball and for me that's says a lot.

[StevO]

People mention Horne in this issue simply on the basis of that goal against Wimbledon in 1994, but no mention of Gareth Farrelly. A name that was responsible for keeping the club out of second division soccer only four years down the line.

 

And if Horne is in it,

 

Have you heard of taking the piss?

[Dalziel Kane]

What, are we still debating this.

 

Yeah, Barry Horne scored a goal in a match that finally was in keeping the club out of the second division a few years ago. The manner of that goal (and it wasn't even the best that I ever saw Horne score) will always garner more attention. Say if Horne had scored a tap-in or hit an effort that rebounded in off a Wimbledon defenders ass, would we still look back on it with so much affection. And what about Stuart that day also, we can't leave him out of it, although we can - because even he still doesn't represent legendary status. Once again, Barry Horne - or in fact anybody who took to the field that day in 1994 - Southall apart - can't be classified as legends of Everton Football Club. Of course Farrelly also, is nowhere near Legends category, but no-one mentioned him, so it had to be brought to attention and surprised to an extent that he wasn't even mentioned.

 

For the final time, actual club legends would include Dean, Lawton, Southall, Sharp, Royle, Hickson, Labone, Ratcliffe, Sagar, Young, Lyons etc. I included one or two extra names rather than borderline decisions from before, just for good measure. If people think names such as Ball, Kendall, Harvey, Gray, Sheedy, Ferguson, Pickering, Latchford etc should have been included in the elite, that's their business. But I can't change from that perspective.

[StevO]

DK, look at the last post. The Barry Horne stuff was a joke. Bloody hell.