Gwlad Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 (edited) We drew against Norwich, W Brom and Cardiff, first Prem games last season. All games we should have won, let's face it we never hit the ground running. Edited August 17, 2014 by Gwlad all over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Feels like Jagielka is untouchable by Evertonians. Stones shouldn't be getting grief because Captain no composure losses his man. Jags is to keen to go in for the lunge and it's his partner that always gets the blame when he doesn't do his job. Matt, London Blue and MC11 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilweevil666 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Feels like Jagielka is untouchable by Evertonians. Stones shouldn't be getting grief because Captain no composure losses his man. Jags is to keen to go in for the lunge and it's his partner that always gets the blame when he doesn't do his job. Honestly, both were poor. I think you're right that Jags was more at fault for the goal because he lunged in like that. But Stones gave the ball away multiple times at the back and looked prone to making costly errors that have happened to him a couple of times now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsunyc Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 i am a new everton fan...and soccer fan in general. i've watched world cup over the years and have watched a few mls games here and there over the past 20 years. (i am 40 years old). but i am a sports fan so even tho i don't know all the strategies and such...i can tell how a team functions, energy, etc. and it really was clear that rom wasn't ready to be out there and i think he only played b/c of ross' injury. and then our energy was basically zero in the 2nd half. if we played with any of the same effort in the first half, we probably win 3-1 or possibly even 4-1. a bit concerning was all the long passes we couldn't defend. our defenders looked so small. i fear that every single point will count this season so losing out 2 points now will mean we have to get a surprise win on the road somewhere this season to balance it out. Sideliner and Toffee_in_LA 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Feels like Jagielka is untouchable by Evertonians. Stones shouldn't be getting grief because Captain no composure losses his man. Jags is to keen to go in for the lunge and it's his partner that always gets the blame when he doesn't do his job. Must admit I thought he was poor all game and him and Howard were on different wave lengths throughout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Feels like Jagielka is untouchable by Evertonians. Stones shouldn't be getting grief because Captain no composure losses his man. Jags is to keen to go in for the lunge and it's his partner that always gets the blame when he doesn't do his job. Not with me mate. He's a good defender but he has a lot of flaws. I actually think both Stones and Jagielka made mistakes for the second. Let's not forget Distin for the first though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Stones will be great when he makes enough mistakes to learn from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Stones will be great when he makes enough mistakes to learn from. Performances have dropped as of late! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 He is a kid. What performances are you talking about Cotto? Tranmere friendly? big deal. As of late we have played Leicester and he played full back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 The big mistake was the awful equalizer at 1-0. Set pieces again with Howard,Dystin and Jags and nobody commands the six yard box. if we could have kept it 0-1 for another five or ten minutes we would have won comfortably. That's where we need to learn. Matt and pete0 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 (edited) The pitch looked pretty poor, very bobbely. Edited August 17, 2014 by London Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 He is a kid. What performances are you talking about Cotto? Tranmere friendly? big deal. As of late we have played Leicester and he played full back. Listen mate, I'm one of his biggest fans, but his pre-season hasn't been good. He was bang average yesterday. That's all I'm saying. Sideliner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 If Jags hadn't slid in it would have been a shot on goal in anycase, took the gamble and didn't put enough on the ball. Both players at fault and both have bad games. Distin got lucky on a few occasions too while bringing the ball out. Defense was usual Everton, shaky and edgy all game.we should just put this one behind us now. Good first half, fell apart second half to a very average team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 The big mistake was the awful equalizer at 1-0. Set pieces again with Howard,Dystin and Jags and nobody commands the six yard box. if we could have kept it 0-1 for another five or ten minutes we would have won comfortably. That's where we need to learn. Spot on. Every time the ball was hit into that area it was panic stations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) Spot on. Every time the ball was hit into that area it was panic stations. It's nothing new and has no chance of changing until we have a new defence once Howard, Distin and Jags are no longer part of the defence. That's not me saying they need to be moved on btw! Edited August 18, 2014 by Romey 1878 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 It's nothing new and has no chance of changing until we have a new defence once Howard, Distin and Jags are no longer part of the defence. That's not me saying they need to be moved on btw! Our defense has looked so much more shakey since we asked them to play from the back. Distin and Jags were very good at recovering and being well disciplined, its almost as if that latter has been taught out of them! It wasnt just the 6 yard box were we seemed scared and disorganized, every long ball towards the 18 yard box was met by shambolic defending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Our defense has looked so much more shakey since we asked them to play from the back. Distin and Jags were very good at recovering and being well disciplined, its almost as if that latter has been taught out of them! It wasnt just the 6 yard box were we seemed scared and disorganized, every long ball towards the 18 yard box was met by shambolic defending. I know, by nothing new I meant since Martinez came in. Last season it was the same and it was a wonder how we managed to have a good defensive record! The lack of communication between Jags and Howard was alarming when dealing with those long balls - at least three times the ball was played over the top of our defence towards the area and Jags is pointing at Howard telling him to come for the ball and he completely ignores him and stays rooted to the spot. I'm crossing my fingers that we get away with it again this season but if anything's going to cost us this season it's going to be conceding too many goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Because neither are ball playing centre halves they're both good strong traditional centre halves. I hate us tippy tapping it out the back my hearts in my mouth constantly especially with Howard in goal he fills me with dread to be honest although admittedly he had an excellent season last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 I know, by nothing new I meant since Martinez came in. Last season it was the same and it was a wonder how we managed to have a good defensive record! The lack of communication between Jags and Howard was alarming when dealing with those long balls - at least three times the ball was played over the top of our defence towards the area and Jags is pointing at Howard telling him to come for the ball and he completely ignores him and stays rooted to the spot. I'm crossing my fingers that we get away with it again this season but if anything's going to cost us this season it's going to be conceding too many goals. Based on the evidence so far, better get crossing toes too... Because neither are ball playing centre halves they're both good strong traditional centre halves. I hate us tippy tapping it out the back my hearts in my mouth constantly especially with Howard in goal he fills me with dread to be honest although admittedly he had an excellent season last year Agreed with the bit in bold but then why have they forgotten how to do the rest of the sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) Based on the evidence so far, better get crossing toes too... Agreed with the bit in bold but then why have they forgotten how to do the rest of the sentence. Because Martinez is asking them to play in a way they're not comfortable with , this in turn is shaking their confidence and they're then in turn shakey as anything. That back line is Moyes back line and under him it was solid. This new style we play doesn't suit our centre backs and they're struggling for it, it's knocking their confidence which is in my opion causing their form to dip. Edited August 18, 2014 by Paddock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Hang on. Are we saying that this back line can't play how Martinez wants them to play, based on the Leicester game? Or based on last season? Because I don't get it. Our back line was the one of the best last season. 3rd best record. And 4th most clean sheets. The same back line conceded more and kept less clean sheets under Moyes. So in which way is it less stable, less able to perform??? I enjoy how we play. It's proper football rather than the traditional 'boot it out' that you hear up and down the country at every kids game. Admittedly, it gets a bit hairy at times. And mistakes happen. But it's effective. Most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) Hang on. Are we saying that this back line can't play how Martinez wants them to play, based on the Leicester game? Or based on last season? Because I don't get it. Our back line was the one of the best last season. 3rd best record. And 4th most clean sheets. The same back line conceded more and kept less clean sheets under Moyes. So in which way is it less stable, less able to perform??? I enjoy how we play. It's proper football rather than the traditional 'boot it out' that you hear up and down the country at every kids game. Admittedly, it gets a bit hairy at times. And mistakes happen. But it's effective. Most of the time. I think we maybe got a tad lucky at times last season but in short I don't think our centre backs are good enough (footballing ability wise) to play that system. This season teams will be a lot more wise to us and pick up on it , press us high and not give our back line much time on the ball to think about things. Don't get me wrong, both our central defenders are good players but are not world class. They're both very good at what they do in the traditional stereotypical way. Distin just marks people out the game he stops them getting a kick and Jags is just a solid good old fashioned centre half, throw his head in great last ditch tackler and (usually ) dependable but neither are comfortable with the ball at their feet. Matt mentioned before that for some reason during pre season and the Leicester game we seem to be struggling with the basics like defending set pieces and keeping our shape which is alarming. It's one thing getting it wrong trying to play like Bobby Moore but when the things they are usually so solid at are not clicking something isn't right. I personally think the fact they're being asked to play a way they are not comfortable with is making them lose confidence and distracting them from the basics they are usually so good at.. They just seem panic stricken all the time and like they son't have a clue where the other one is or what he is doing. I know it's only one game and I'm not suggesting we should hit the panic button or anything but I worry our defence will found out a lot this season. Martinez side when he was at Wigan conceded goals at an alarming rate I hope that that trend doesn't continue with us. Edited August 18, 2014 by Paddock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 I totally get the doubts about teams sussing us out. And I'm curious on that one too, not just at the back but all over. That's my test for Martinez. But that's to be judged in months and months time, not after one game. The mistakes made are basic communication errors as you gents have pointed out. That's down to the players, not Martinez. They need to sort it out. I'll be concerned if it happens game after game. And pre season doesn't count for me. Man Utd had a brilliant pre season. Then look. I can't at all buy into any comparisons to previous era's or previous teams. Because the stats n facts don't stack up. And I can't buy into last seasons defensive record being a fluke or luck. You get that once in a while, same as you do with bad luck, but not over a whole season. 3 top posters there...Pad, Matt, Rom...but I'm swimming against you on this one!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Hang on. Are we saying that this back line can't play how Martinez wants them to play, based on the Leicester game? Or based on last season? Because I don't get it. Our back line was the one of the best last season. 3rd best record. And 4th most clean sheets. The same back line conceded more and kept less clean sheets under Moyes. So in which way is it less stable, less able to perform??? I enjoy how we play. It's proper football rather than the traditional 'boot it out' that you hear up and down the country at every kids game. Admittedly, it gets a bit hairy at times. And mistakes happen. But it's effective. Most of the time. Thank God for sanity. I actually think Jags and Distin have improved under Martinez, maybe not Jags pre cruciate but definitely Jags since he recovered. They have a far better understanding of the game in general but they do seem to have periods in a game where they go very much like rabbits in the headlights. They did it under Moyes too, more so Distin strangely, but I thought Distin was actually incredible last season, probably his best season as a professional (albeit I didnt watch him too much in his pre-Pompey days). At the weekend, Jags was especially shakey. Howard inspired no confidence in his back four and you could see that they clearly werent on the same page whatsoever. I thought Stones did really well for 80% of the game, he just went through a phase of some shocking decision making with the ball at his feet and I think it is very harsh to blame him for the goal when Baines, Barry and even Jags made far bigger individual mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Oh and Paddock, Martinez conceeded goals for fun at Wigan because he had god awful defenders and when he brought them in (especially in the later years) they got injured. I watched plenty of Wigan games where they were excellent defensively and sides barely had a sniff. I have also seen them play really well as a team defensively only for some idiot (yes I am pointing at the Caldwells!) to do something stupid. Our defence creaks when our tempo drops and a lot of that comes from the midfield. We didnt give them a sniff first half (which seems to have been forgotten) and we also didnt give them a sniff when the tempo increased after we conceded. We let Leicester dictate and paid the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenosetoffee Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 It was always going to be a tough test against a newly promoted team. I don't think we tested their defence enough either though. Big Rom got closed down every time he had the ball. (Which is expected). Leicester played good football and defended well. There is positives to take away. Pienaar looked really good on Saturday. Linked well with Baines and then cut inside the box and looked a threat. The only negatives were the defending. First one can't really say much about it, Distin tried to clear it but hit it straight into the striker. The second one though, Stones was in a CB role and wasn't covering his player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Really bad time to play a newly promoted team - their discilpline and fight was excellent. We just never had the luck Liverpool did. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Really bad time to play a newly promoted team - their discilpline and fight was excellent. We just never had the luck Liverpool did. Yep, they were always going to be a tough game and I think by their display they have enough about them to knick a few points against some of the bigger boys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.