RuffRob Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 It is obvious that martinez has focused the pre-season in warming the blues up for the Europa Cup. The Europa Cup is now very much worth winning this season, as the winner gets a place in the following seasons Champions League. I know a lot of people are worried about our pre-season results, but these are obviously bourne of getting valuable experience of what will come about from playing in Europe this year - the differing style of the teams, the different ball, the travel etc. Given the prize now of winning the Europa league - I personally think Martinez has done the right thing in trying to focus the pre-season on getting the squad ready for the Europa Cup. Given that Man U look a whole lot stronger this season, getting in to the top 4 is going to be a even more difficult than it was last year. So even though we are around 7/1 for a top 4 finish and a lot bigger 20/1 to lift the Europa cup, I think Europa success might be our best chance of getting in to next season's CL. Which do you think is the bigger task - breaking in to the top 4 or winning the Europa Cup? This season, If you had to make the choice would you put the strongest side out for the Europa games or league games. I would go for the Europa Cup if pressed - Some major silverware and a CL spot. I think if I was offer it now, I would have take 6-7 position in the league and a spot in the Europa cup final going in to the last couple of weeks of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Ah thats a tough one Rob, focus all of the attention on one and the efforts in the other could really slip. I dont think I can pick to be honest. But if you said to me would I rather finish 4th or win the Europa, i'd take the trophy every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Win the cup definitely. That's what football is all about the days out etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 I'd take Europa over all other realistic targets markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Winning the Europa, definitely. 4th isn't as good as first. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRob Posted August 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Given the consensus so far, Martinez is probabley doing the right think in focusing our pre-season with a heavy bias towards the Europa Cup competition, getting out 'poor' eurepoean performances and learning curve out of our system (hopefully). With a bit of luck we will see the benefits of our pre-season games once the Europa competition kick off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Both. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirallas Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Top 4 is going to be a lot easier than winning the Europa League. It's a tad arrogant be as demeaning to the Europa League as to think it's a perfectly attainable goal to try and win it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoof_It_Nev Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 It seems to me that people are underestimating the other teams in the Europa. Of course it would be amazing to win the Europa, but we can't even win the FA Cup when we try - the class of teams in Europa is pretty high after the first rounds. Benfica, Juventus, Napoli, Ajax, PSV, Valencia etc. It would be a lot harder than most people think. I would hate for us to put all our eggs all in one basket and end up with nothing. Louis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRob Posted August 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Top 4 is going to be a lot easier than winning the Europa League. It's a tad arrogant be as demeaning to the Europa League as to think it's a perfectly attainable goal to try and win it. Well, that's the arguement - Is 4th place or Europa Cup the harder task in hand? Not sure I agree top 4 spot is a lot easier. It could equally be argued that both are beyond our capabilities and punching above our weight. and a tad arrogent to think we could do either - But that's what we need to strive for - a bit of gatecrashing!!. I am not underestimating the Europa leauge - But this seaosn there are two possible routes for Everton to get in to the CL next season - top 4 or win the Europa cup. How ofter do any teams outside the 5-6 big spenders get in to the top 4 CL spot. I would say that Everton are the only club to manage that; the once.(So a once every 10 -12 year hit rate for any 'poorer' club). When Spurs, Leeds or Newcastle have managed it, they had paid to get there. Middlesbrough and Fulham got to the final of the Europa Cup in 2006 and 2010 respectiely (two none top 5-6 big spending clubs have managed it in the last 8-9 years (so a once every 4-5 year hit rate). On this evidence you could argue that getting to a Europa Cup final is slightly easier than getting in to the top 4 if you don't have the spending power. I don't think anybody would argue that the current Everton squad is a lot better than both the Middlesbrough or Fulham teams. OK, both fell at the final hurdle. But as mentioned earlier I would take a spot in the final now and take my chances. Martinez does have some pedigree in Cup football, who would have bet on Wigan in a FA Cup final agaist Man City. Matt, bluenosetoffee and StevO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 It seems to me that people are underestimating the other teams in the Europa. Of course it would be amazing to win the Europa, but we can't even win the FA Cup when we try - the class of teams in Europa is pretty high after the first rounds. Benfica, Juventus, Napoli, Ajax, PSV, Valencia etc. It would be a lot harder than most people think. I would hate for us to put all our eggs all in one basket and end up with nothing. Don't think anyone is under estimating. The question was which would we prefer to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenosetoffee Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 I don't think anybody is underestimating the Europa league. I personally would want Everton to win the Europa league, it would be a tough ask but if you are talking about the road into champions league then it would be the better option to focus our efforts more into the competition. (Only problem is would league form slip?). I don't think Europa league is a easy competition but it is going to be harder than ever to get top 4 this season. United looked sharp in pre-season and also Spurs have looked good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Top 4 is going to be a lot easier than winning the Europa League. It's a tad arrogant be as demeaning to the Europa League as to think it's a perfectly attainable goal to try and win it. It's a theoretical question there's no arrogance involved what so ever everyone knows how tough either could be to achieve 38 games consisting of a fair few teams that could potentially win the Europa league if they were in it vs 17 games from the play off stage For me 4th would in theory be a tougher task and if I had to choose it would be the Europa everyday without doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirallas Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Well, to win the europa league, you 1. have to be better than everyone else and 2. you cannot lose one game. You need to win every single game (except group stages, but then still) To be 4th in the EPL, you allow yourself to have 3 teams finish higher than you and it's not a disaster to lose or draw a few games. It's conceivable if you look at the big 6: city, united, chelsea, arsenal, tots and lfc and think.. with this squad and this manager we might do better than 3 of those on a good season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) Well, to win the europa league, you 1. have to be better than everyone else and 2. you cannot lose one game. You need to win every single game (except group stages, but then still) To be 4th in the EPL, you allow yourself to have 3 teams finish higher than you and it's not a disaster to lose or draw a few games. It's conceivable if you look at the big 6: city, united, chelsea, arsenal, tots and lfc and think.. with this squad and this manager we might do better than 3 of those on a good season. The big six? When did this happen? as we have finished about one of Liverpool, Spurs and United in the last three seasons. Is someone trying to tell me Spurs are bigger now? I could accept the big four when it was Chelsea United Arsenal and Liverpool, then City knocked Liverpool out of that big four. But now we are just trying to shoe horn in the media darlings at Spurs?! to make a six. I might be going over the top, but thats fucking ridiculous. Spurs haven't been big time since they dropped out of the champions league. They have money, and thats about it. Its a while since they did anything of note with that money. Please feel free to shove that big six up your arse thanks. No offence like. EDIT: We missed you Rob! Edited August 11, 2014 by StevO markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) Well, to win the europa league, you 1. have to be better than everyone else and 2. you cannot lose one game. You need to win every single game (except group stages, but then still) To be 4th in the EPL, you allow yourself to have 3 teams finish higher than you and it's not a disaster to lose or draw a few games. It's conceivable if you look at the big 6: city, united, chelsea, arsenal, tots and lfc and think.. with this squad and this manager we might do better than 3 of those on a good season. Obviously but you don't always have to be the best side if that was the case the best side that dropped out of the CL would win it yearly there's a fair amount of luck in any cup competition far to many variables to put it so bluntly Going on a winning run of 17 games unbeaten in this league is far tougher in my eyes than doing so in the Europa. Arsenal lost seven and drew seven games out of 38 to finish 4th last season, this season will likely be tougher with United more than likely coming back into the mix plus maybe Spurs under new management. So 24 wins last term for 4th with a likely chance of it being tougher this time around vs 17... either way you gloss it you need to win more games for 4th than you do to win the Europa simples Edited August 11, 2014 by EFC-Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Europa win hands down. you don't get a trophy for 4th unless your Arsenal. I think both will be difficult, Europa is no joke and the top 4 will be fierce this year. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markiediow Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Europa best way by a long way. Get straight to group stages in Champions League with UEFA coefficients points (you will get a lot for winning Europa) to add to our seeding when group draws are made. 4th place is not guaranteed even to get into the qualifying rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Do the EL champions have to go through CL qualification rounds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Domestic treble plus the Europa League is what I want .... Chances are unlikely, but at this time of year I am allowing myself to dream the impossible dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Well, to win the europa league, you 1. have to be better than everyone else and 2. you cannot lose one game. You need to win every single game (except group stages, but then still) To be 4th in the EPL, you allow yourself to have 3 teams finish higher than you and it's not a disaster to lose or draw a few games. It's conceivable if you look at the big 6: city, united, chelsea, arsenal, tots and lfc and think.. with this squad and this manager we might do better than 3 of those on a good season. Point is though in a cup you don't have to be better than everyone else, you just have to be better than the teams you're drawn against. Do the EL champions have to go through CL qualification rounds? Q: Will the Europa League winners go straight into the group phase of the Champions League? A: That has still to be confirmed but it appears that will usually be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee_in_LA Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Definitely the Europa, some of the lot here have gone years without seeing Everton lift a trophy. Winning the Europa would be great as it would increase our marketability and show not just England but the world that we are a force to be reckoned with and will only improve. Knowing our luck though, we'll probably face Benfica and end up breaking their 8 European finals losing streak, it's the Everton way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Point is though in a cup you don't have to be better than everyone else, you just have to be better than the teams you're drawn against. Q: Will the Europa League winners go straight into the group phase of the Champions League? A: That has still to be confirmed but it appears that will usually be the case. From what I understand the Europa League winner enters at the group stage. However if the 2014-15 Champions League winner fails to qualify through their domestic league (and qualifies as CL winner), the Europa League winner goes to the playoff round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirallas Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) The big six? When did this happen? as we have finished about one of Liverpool, Spurs and United in the last three seasons. Is someone trying to tell me Spurs are bigger now? I could accept the big four when it was Chelsea United Arsenal and Liverpool, then City knocked Liverpool out of that big four. But now we are just trying to shoe horn in the media darlings at Spurs?! to make a six. I might be going over the top, but thats fucking ridiculous. Spurs haven't been big time since they dropped out of the champions league. They have money, and thats about it. Its a while since they did anything of note with that money. Please feel free to shove that big six up your arse thanks. No offence like. The point being that those 6 are the only teams that can be reasonably expected to be able to finish ahead of Everton. To compete. Or don't you agree? that was pretty much what my whole comment was about. Edited August 12, 2014 by Mirallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 I honestly thing both 4th and winning Europa is above our current abilities. We could shock and do on or the other but I think the expectations should be top 6 and a good run in Europe. (Its hard to succeed in Europe when you dont play Europe on a regular basis) That said, and to answer the original question. Id rather win Europe and qualify for CL. As most have pointed out, silverware is silverware. Which is tougher? Id say top 4 in PL is harder than winning the European league. But just as I wrote that I had a change of heart and thought that its harder to win in Europe. I honestly dont know which is the harder. I just know that the odds are stacked on us doing either. For PL we need to finish above two of the following teams, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool, Tottenham. All very good teams. (yes we are also very good and its realistic to believe that we will finish above at least one of these) For Europe we need to be better than these teams (some examples), Sevilla, Wolfsburg, Fiorentina, Villarreal, Borussia M, Tottenham, Inter Milan, Real Sociedad, Lyon, etc etc. (I have the recent matches against FC Porto, Celta Vigo and FC Paderborn fresh in my head too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kant Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Well, to win the europa league, you 1. have to be better than everyone else and 2. you cannot lose one game. You need to win every single game (except group stages, but then still) In any given night you can lose 3-0, as long as you can overcome it in the return leg you go through. This is very typical of EL nights, for example Sevilla lost to Betis 0-2 at home last season, then went to Betis and got 0-2 and through via penalty shoot-out. It's a combination of luck, good draws, momentum and reliability at home. Great teams like Napoli, Porto or Juventus got eliminated at one stage or another, and the teams coming from the CL will be the most dangerous. I'd pretty much go for glory rather than 4th (and I feel this season 4th is quite unrealistic due to the improvement of United, 7th and some good cup runs should be a realistic expectation) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirallas Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 For PL we need to finish above two of the following teams, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool, Tottenham. All very good teams. (yes we are also very good and its realistic to believe that we will finish above at least one of these) small miscalculation there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 small miscalculation there You are correct sir. We need to finish above 3 of those Only one cup of coffee today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 The point being that those 6 are the only teams that can be reasonably expected to be able to finish ahead of Everton. To compete. Or don't you agree? that was pretty much what my whole comment was about. I agree they are the only teams who could finish above us, but the idea of calling them the big six is crazy to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirallas Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 I agree they are the only teams who could finish above us, but the idea of calling them the big six is crazy to me. They are the big 6 in budgets, so they have no excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.