Paddock Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 I've only been following the team for about 6 years now, but was under the impression that we've been sacrificing the fruits of our good standings due to financial difficulties which we have recently broke free from. So wouldn't a couple more consistently top 7 finishes and great Europa League showing help us progress? Europa league brings in hardly any money mate, virtually nothing. Champions League is where the major money is at. Finishing 7th to 5th isn't going to change anything either unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Comfortable in the second half? They were all over us second half. We were sloppy they came at us constantly wave after wave. In what way where we ever comfortable in the second half? They were all over us! Shearer on MOTD, "I thought Everton for seventy five or eighty minutes ....were absolutely brilliant". Arse had periods of pressure for sure but, "constantly wave after wave" and "all over us" is over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Shearer on MOTD, "I thought Everton for seventy five or eighty minutes ....were absolutely brilliant". Arse had periods of pressure for sure but, "constantly wave after wave" and "all over us" is over the top. Mike we just constantly gave them it back time and time again, they disd come at us all half, they're not a direct side they like to pass it about. We hardly had a sniff all half they had all the possession and dictated most of the play from about 65 minutes onwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Shearer on MOTD, "I thought Everton for seventy five or eighty minutes ....were absolutely brilliant".Arse had periods of pressure for sure but, "constantly wave after wave" and "all over us" is over the top. Find the heat map for the second half. That will tell you a lot. Quoting Alan Shearer isn't the best thing to do and if anyone thinks we were on top for 75mins they're deluded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Find the heat map for the second half. That will tell you a lot. Quoting Alan Shearer isn't the best thing to do and if anyone thinks we were on top for 75mins they're deluded. Who said we were on top for seventy five minutes? You need to read my post again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Shearer seems to think we were and Bailey by the looks of things. The truth is we weren't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 We had a gameplan to hit them on the counter in the second half. For most of the second half Arse looked resigned to defeat, picked up silly bookings and we were playing a bit to deep we were OK. When we gave the first goal away we put pressure on ourselves and when Ossie stopped playing percentage passes we were always playing catchup and they scored. Yes we should have defended better but this defence had one of the best records in the league last season. They just need to play themselves in to use a cricketing parlon. For the doomsayers amongst us please, go put a sandwhich board on and say the end is nigh, but stop infecting this site and our club ith your negativity. Thats not what got us to 5th last season, and pissing on the team and manager wont get us to 4th this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Interesting that Martinez said afterwards that we ran out of energy and it became a feeling of wanting the game to end (from the players that is!!!). Also interesting that he said we played very well for 80 minutes. He sounded a bit more disappointed then usual when talking about the energy thing. I think he knows we need to up our stamina. So really, our challenge to Martinez shouldn't be about subs, line ups etc but it should be about 'what are you going to do to get us up to speed for a full 90 minutes?' I can't remember them being all over us for the entire 2nd half. They were the overall better team in the 2nd half, and Giroud made a massive difference for them. We certainly faded out quite quickly around 70 odd minutes. The struggle really started around then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 We had a gameplan to hit them on the counter in the second half. For most of the second half Arse looked resigned to defeat, picked up silly bookings and we were playing a bit to deep we were OK. When we gave the first goal away we put pressure on ourselves and when Ossie stopped playing percentage passes we were always playing catchup and they scored. Yes we should have defended better but this defence had one of the best records in the league last season. They just need to play themselves in to use a cricketing parlon. For the doomsayers amongst us please, go put a sandwhich board on and say the end is nigh, but stop infecting this site and our club ith your negativity. Thats not what got us to 5th last season, and pissing on the team and manager wont get us to 4th this season. If there's negatives within the games we play there's no harm in pointing them out. The team needs to improve if we're going to get 4th/5th. I'm sure we will. But right now there's a few problems that need tweaking. The main one for me seems to be fitness. If players are blowing after 70mins they're not fit enough to be playing. Martinez says Gibson was fit and ready for Arsenal.... Doesn't even include him in the squad. Quite possibly a better option than Osman for the role today. At least a like for like replacement when Ozzie started to tire. Same can be said about Besic. Instead he changed the wingers. Mirallas was a handful all game. He tracked back when he could. Same can't be said for a Mcgeady. So right now I'd say Martinez got a few things wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunlopp9987 Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Hey, if we finish the other 36 matches with 2-2 draws, it would put us at 76 points. Which should be enough for a top 4 finish..... I hate trying to look on the bright side. It's too bright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Hey, if we finish the other 36 matches with 2-2 draws, it would put us at 76 points. Which should be enough for a top 4 finish..... I hate trying to look on the bright side. It's too bright. Didn't know you were good at maths mate. How many you had? 38? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Hey, if we finish the other 36 matches with 2-2 draws, it would put us at 76 points. Which should be enough for a top 4 finish..... I hate trying to look on the bright side. It's too bright. Uhhhh.... MC11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Uhhhh.... He's either on a wind up or seriously drunk! Pearso 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 He's either on a wind up or seriously drunk!Can't blame him for either after today's game. Pearso, MC11 and Toffee_in_LA 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Hey, if we finish the other 36 matches with 2-2 draws, it would put us at 76 points. Which should be enough for a top 4 finish..... I hate trying to look on the bright side. It's too bright. Haha haha!!! Brilliant!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) If there's negatives within the games we play there's no harm in pointing them out. The team needs to improve if we're going to get 4th/5th. I'm sure we will. But right now there's a few problems that need tweaking. The main one for me seems to be fitness. If players are blowing after 70mins they're not fit enough to be playing. Martinez says Gibson was fit and ready for Arsenal.... Doesn't even include him in the squad. Quite possibly a better option than Osman for the role today. At least a like for like replacement when Ozzie started to tire. Same can be said about Besic. Instead he changed the wingers. Mirallas was a handful all game. He tracked back when he could. Same can't be said for a Mcgeady. So right now I'd say Martinez got a few things wrong. There is nothing wrong with pointing out what went wrong and where we can improve, or what you would have done differently. But saying that you think Martinez lacks passion, or that the team have always been suspect defensively is over the top. Arsenal is a bit of a tough game to come back to for Gibson, or make a debut in terms of Besic. In my opinion McGeady was told to stay up once Lukaku came off to make sure we had a threat going forward, and an outlet. Mirallas was coming back to fitness and I think it was right to sub him for someone fresh who had a good game last time out. Martinez had to take Pienaar off, and Lukaku, and I think it was a choice between protecting Mirallas or replacing Osman. Tough choice Edited August 23, 2014 by London Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oztoffee Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 We had a distinct lack of will to win in the last 30mins. I watched the clock and at 60mins thought 'how long till we screw up?' Bugger me till Christmas at 70 mins we were a different team. I don't think personally that it's all lack of fitness either, there was a total lack of intensity. We weren't closing them down at all as we did first half, giving them too much room and the backs were playing in another game somewhere....they certainly weren't playing at Goodison. To me Jags has never been the same since his injury last season and is performing far below what he has done in the past. At times yesterday he looked totally out of his depth. Distin, while still a great player is looking down the barrel at the end of his career. A performance like yesterday's can only hasten it. Well off the pace. Coleman was certainly not at his best and I feel another week on the bench may have been better for him. He was sluggish and out of touch sometimes. Baines was Baines. As someone said earlier, Bobby should get the boys together with a psychologist this week to sort out what the fcuk they are thinking of when they are two goals up, playing like they'll win the League only to let two goals in in 10mins? We've scored 4 goals in two games...not bad. We've conceded 4 goals in two games. Most Everton teams from the past would be saying...'what the?' Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunlopp9987 Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 Uhhhh.... Lord...I was joking. Can't anyone joke around here? Anyways, one thing I learned from today's match was one of my biggest concerns heading into this season: we need a new center half. Jags has looked mediocre at best thus far, and Syl's age looks like it's finally starting to show. Not to mention I'm not totally sold on Stones (at least at this point in his career). We need a proven, near-world class center half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunlopp9987 Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) I do think that we will come out motivated for Chelski next week. They didn't look ultra-impressive today against Leicester. Edited August 24, 2014 by dunlopp9987 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 Trying to look for positives this mor ing and thought.... We feel disappointed after a draw with arsenal, yet we have so many players who are not up to speed yet. Lukaku looks unfit and not really a danger. We know this will change. Mirralas looked one of our most effective but slow for his standards. He will wake up in the coming weeks. We haven't really seen Atsu yet either. So we shouldn't be too down. The main disappointment wasosing the two goal leaf so easily and quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 For the doomsayers amongst us please, go put a sandwhich board on and say the end is nigh, but stop infecting this site and our club ith your negativity. Thats not what got us to 5th last season, and pissing on the team and manager wont get us to 4th this season. Tell you what then lets all put our head in the sand and pretend everything's ok. We are defensively naive and if he doesn't sort it we will leak goals all season. We can't keep on blaming the players when the manager is tactically gung ho with his substitutions Also they don't look fit, shall we blame them for that? Maybe if our pre season wasn't the worst since 1979 we would have looked like we can last the 90 minutes in a premier league game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodisonRoad Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 We are defensively naive and if he doesn't sort it we will leak goals all season. We can't keep on blaming the players when the manager is tactically gung ho with his substitutions . Serious case of Deja vu! what year is it?! The EXACT same things were said at the start of last season. Let's see how it pans out before we start asking serious questions. Like I just said in an earlier post, we are notoriously slow starters anyway and the fixture list hasn't exactly been kind to us to start off with. I'm as gutted as anyone not to come away with 3 points yesterday but it really does show how the expectations have been raised that people are now slating Martinez because we didn't win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 There is nothing wrong with pointing out what went wrong and where we can improve, or what you would have done differently. But saying that you think Martinez lacks passion, or that the team have always been suspect defensively is over the top. Arsenal is a bit of a tough game to come back to for Gibson, or make a debut in terms of Besic. In my opinion McGeady was told to stay up once Lukaku came off to make sure we had a threat going forward, and an outlet. Mirallas was coming back to fitness and I think it was right to sub him for someone fresh who had a good game last time out. Martinez had to take Pienaar off, and Lukaku, and I think it was a choice between protecting Mirallas or replacing Osman. Tough choice If you take time to read properly you'll see that none of that was actually said. Saying that someone doesn't show real "emotion" is not even close to saying he lacks passion. For instance have you ever seen Martinez wound up? Angry?.... Well I haven't and that's what I mean by emotion. Not once have I said he lacks passion. Secondly, for me, the mans defensive tactics (ability to close shop) I'm still not convinced by. I also never once said his teams have always been suspect. READ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 If you take time to read properly you'll see that none of that was actually said. Saying that someone doesn't show real "emotion" is not even close to saying he lacks passion. For instance have you ever seen Martinez wound up? Angry?.... Well I haven't and that's what I mean by emotion. Not once have I said he lacks passion. Secondly, for me, the mans defensive tactics (ability to close shop) I'm still not convinced by. I also never once said his teams have always been suspect. READ stop chatting shit. Cause he's level headed and methodical and doesn't act like a twat like pardew or Holloway for that matter he's void of emotion. He celebrated both goals with obvious emotion and handles himself in such good manners representing the club. He just doesn't want to give the press a field day like the other muppets. If you think those other managers have emotion your mistaken. That's all for there fans and for there own ego. Bailey and Toffee_in_LA 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 stop chatting shit. Cause he's level headed and methodical and doesn't act like a twat like pardew or Holloway for that matter he's void of emotion. He celebrated both goals with obvious emotion and handles himself in such good manners representing the club. He just doesn't want to give the press a field day like the other muppets. If you think those other managers have emotion your mistaken. That's all for there fans and for there own ego. I don't think he lacks passion he shows plenty of it on the touchline. His interviews are monotonous though Brett, he's like a stuck record. We were perfect, we need to be perfect we're so positive etc etc. it would be nice to see a change in him now and again (where warranted) it's almost like he's reading from a script. I want to make it clear I'm not anti Martinez I think he's been great and grabbed us by the scruff of the neck and pulled us up but he is not above criticism and if he makes mistakes it needs saying. I read in some places (not here by the way) posters putting "bobby will sort it" "get this player yes he's shite but under bobby he'll be a world beater" like he's some sort of demi god. I'm not convinced on him yet, I hope he does convince me, I think he has lots of qualities and he has thus far done really well but it's not his team. We seem to have gone defensively frail bit by bit under him and this worries me. His buys, have so far been a bit suspect, Robles, Alcaraz and Kone anyway but because it's "Bobby" in some quarters it's acceptable. It's early days yet and I'll reserve judgement for at least 2 more seasons but he has to be answerable to his mistakes. It's easy to blame players and yes ultimately they are the ones on the pitch but Martinez is not blameless or untouchable. (Not saying you think he is by the way just waffling after quoting your post) MC11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 There are two things that I'm alarmed about after watching us for the first two games of the season. 1. The way our levels absolutely fall off a cliff. Last week we played some brilliant stuff for 45 minutes and then completely disappeared. Yesterday we did it for 60 minutes and looked quality, but then we plummeted and looked abysmal. Is it a lack of fitness? Poor concentration levels? Both? Martinez seems to think it's the former, and it does look that way to me too, so it should be able to be remedied. 2. We're shipping goals at a worrying rate. Conceding is acceptable when you can say the opposition has opened you up but we've conceded 4 soft goals, with 3 of them coming in the final 10 minutes of a game when we're in a leading position. When the opposition are anywhere near our box it honestly feels like they're going to score every single time. I have no confidence in them whatsoever. Jags seems to have forgotten how to head the ball (Distin never has been able to), Distin looks panicked at the sight of a football and more often than not just hacks at the ball, putting us under pressure. People go on about us having such a good record defensive record last season but I was as worried back then about our defending as I am now - I was so surprised at us having a good record because we looked shaky defensively all season long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) stop chatting shit. Cause he's level headed and methodical and doesn't act like a twat like pardew or Holloway for that matter he's void of emotion. He celebrated both goals with obvious emotion and handles himself in such good manners representing the club. He just doesn't want to give the press a field day like the other muppets. If you think those other managers have emotion your mistaken. That's all for there fans and for there own ego. All other managers have positive and negative emotions. The best managers in the world get angry at some point. Alls I've said all a long is there doesn't seem to be any negative emotion when we haven't played well. Mourinho, Wenger, Ferguson all have negative reactions. It's called realism. We can't always be positive in defeat. Edited August 24, 2014 by MiguelCotto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 I don't think he lacks passion he shows plenty of it on the touchline. His interviews are monotonous though Brett, he's like a stuck record. We were perfect, we need to be perfect we're so positive etc etc. it would be nice to see a change in him now and again (where warranted) it's almost like he's reading from a script. I want to make it clear I'm not anti Martinez I think he's been great and grabbed us by the scruff of the neck and pulled us up but he is not above criticism and if he makes mistakes it needs saying. I read in some places (not here by the way) posters putting "bobby will sort it" "get this player yes he's shite but under bobby he'll be a world beater" like he's some sort of demi god. I'm not convinced on him yet, I hope he does convince me, I think he has lots of qualities and he has thus far done really well but it's not his team. We seem to have gone defensively frail bit by bit under him and this worries me. His buys, have so far been a bit suspect, Robles, Alcaraz and Kone anyway but because it's "Bobby" in some quarters it's acceptable. It's early days yet and I'll reserve judgement for at least 2 more seasons but he has to be answerable to his mistakes. It's easy to blame players and yes ultimately they are the ones on the pitch but Martinez is not blameless or untouchable. (Not saying you think he is by the way just waffling after quoting your post) I'm not getting dragged into the bobby debate. It makes me laugh that this time last year against arsenal home and away, he was a tactical genius. He brought the kind of football that I hadn't seen at goodison for up to twenty years +... He also had buys like Lukaku and McCarthy. I see you don't mention these in your ridicual of his buys. We'll probably beat Chelsea next week and the forum will again turn on it's head. It's what you get with our fans these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 All other managers have positive and negative emotions. The best managers in the world get angry at some point. Alls I've said all a long is there doesn't seem to be any negative emotion when we haven't played well. Mourinho, Wenger, Ferguson all have negative reactions. It's called realism. We can't always be positive in defeat. Yes and avram grant was dead in front of the camera but he took a team to the champions league final. Argument flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 I'm not getting dragged into the bobby debate. It makes me laugh that this time last year against arsenal home and away, he was a tactical genius. He brought the kind of football that I hadn't seen at goodison for up to twenty years +... He also had buys like Lukaku and McCarthy. I see you don't mention these in your ridicual of his buys. We'll probably beat Chelsea next week and the forum will again turn on it's head. It's what you get with our fans these days. They weren't buys last season though Brett that's why I never mentioned them they wern't actually his players. I didn't ridicule anything and have no idea why you would think that? The 3 players I mentioned have not been good buys so 3 of his 4 buys last season (excluding loans) were questionable. Yes he has brought a brand of football to us that's exciting I as much said that in my post and when it comes off and we smash sides it's great and we were tactically ok yesterday. We were 2-0 up then his tactics failed. We'd done everything right up to a point. When that point came he should have changed the tactics and seen the game out. If he had I'd of been applauding him but he never he chose to stay "positive" when we were fucked and on the back foot. I'd sooner see us be positive to a point where we've all but won the game then switch to a more solid stable shape and snuff teams out with the attitude of "that's 3 points thank you very much" There was so many positives to take from yesterday. A couple of clever subs and we'd of won 2-0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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