Arsenal (H)

[MC11]

Really? Because I thought he had a really good game and caused Arsenal lots of problems.

First 20mins best player in a blue shirt for me. You could tell he's not fully fit though missing half a yard of pace.

[Shukes]

Don't agree he had a great game but Mirralas was one if the most dangerous players on the pitch. He still hasn't reached his fitness yet as he's noticeably running at players. He had loads of opportunities but didn't seem to want the challenge..... But you know once he gets mojo he is going to score goals for us

 

MC is right on this one, we can't do without Mirralas. Once he is gone we will notice more. Just like when Pienaar leaves the pitch. Until he went of they hardly touched the ball because they were constantly on the back foot.

[Cornish Steve]

I was obviously watching the same game as you as I thought he was a thorn in Arsenals side all game. He was full of running and was constantly trying to spark something. He had the Arsenal back line on their toes all game.

 

Yes, I was watching the same game and growing more and more frustrated by him. He was getting in there, he was full of energy, but he wasted opportunities time and again. As was commented earlier, maybe that's part and parcel of his play - the great comes with the frustrating. Honestly, I didn't see much if any great from him yesterday.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Cornish Steve

[London Blue]

READ

 

Thanks for that I was wondering how this whole forum thing worked.

 

 

Saying that someone doesn't show real "emotion" is not even close to saying he lacks passion.

 

 

So according to your logic you don't need emotions to be passionate then, someone can be dispassionately passionate, is that it?

 

 

For instance have you ever seen Martinez wound up? Angry?.... Well I haven't and that's what I mean by emotion. Not once have I said he lacks passion.

 

 

So your saying the only time a person shows emotion is if they are angry, or wound up.

 

Is this how your emotions work? Because if the only emotion you show is anger, I think you need to seek professional help, quickly.

 

 

 

 

.

Secondly, for me, the mans defensive tactics (ability to close shop) I'm still not convinced by.

 

 

 

 

What would convince you? I know how about playing each team in the league twice over a season and seeing how the defense does, if only we had a way of looking at that.

 

Hang on lets look at the 2013/14 season maybe that will tell us.

 

Yes it does.

 

We conceded 39 goals, the third tightest defense in the league behind Chelsea and City. Not luck, not a one off, a fact based on a entire seasons worth of games.

 

We have played 2 games this season, lets look at the table in 10 games time and then we can judge.

 

 

 

I also never once said his teams have always been suspect.

 

 

 

So you have never been convinced of Martinez defensive tactics, but his teams aren't suspect defensively?

 

Wow, just wow, one of the best definitions of an oxymoron I have read in a while. - Congrats.

Edited August 24, 2014 by London Blue

[Hafnia]

Anyone who waxes lyrical over mirallas never seen Trevor Steven. Yes, we know he is talented but ffs he isn't that good.

 

This favourite player nonsense just clouds judgement.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I thought Mirallas had a decent game, can't really understand how anyone could say otherwise

[MikeO]

How was this not a foul on Distin for the second goal? Or are you allowed to use an opponent's shirt for leverage?

 

[markjazzbassist]

How was this not a foul on Distin for the second goal? Or are you allowed to use an opponent's shirt for leverage?

 

The rule states that as long as they are fellow countrymen it is allowed.

[Matt]

still fuming and the bickering in here is not helping...

[seve]

I love the style of play Roberto has brought to the club but at the end of the arsenal game it was crying out for a central defender to keep giru quiet not 2 forwards but I would not want to revert to the moyes way anyone fancy Curtis Davies from hull ?

[Hafnia]

I'm more pissed off at the way osman couldn't be arsed tracking Ramsey for their first.

[Romey 1878]

I'm more pissed off at the way osman couldn't be arsed tracking Ramsey for their first.

 

I still can't understand why it was him that came on for Pienaar. He can barely last 60 minutes, let alone 80. Osman's time really is done and I hope that the Arsenal game has hammered that home for Roberto.

[Matt]

To be honest, despite the defensive cock ups, I would point the finger at Roberto again after subs coming on too late or the wrong player coming on. Something Moyes was mercilessly criticized for (quite rightly too). Atsu, won't be eligible for the next game, should've come on for Pienaar to give Arsenal something to fear, but no... He should've come on for Ossie around the 70 minute mark too to attack tired Arsenal legs.

 

If Roberto cannot get his players to play for 90 mins, physically or mentally, he has to look at his training methods. Its all very well and good trying to outscore the opposition, but you still need a sturdy back line. The main reason I am so annoyed is because we gave it away due to "mentally tired" despite being "phenomenal" for so long. Lessons were not learnt from Leicester. 4 points we have given away now in almost carbon copy circumstances; sloppy defending, tired players and wrong subs.

 

Lets hope Chelsea will suffer the wrath...

[Hafnia]

I actually think we are close to being very good. Martinez will learn from these things, something moyes never really did.

 

We could have been 3 goals up against a good arsenal team, that first goal was so slick.

[Btay]

I actually think we are close to being very good. Martinez will learn from these things, something moyes never really did.

 

We could have been 3 goals up against a good arsenal team, that first goal was so slick.

 

This is exactly how the thread should be left. We are incredibly close to being a real force and I'm genuinely excited to see how we go against chelsea...

[seve]

you all want to blame ossi for the first goal but not the man who let it roll past him 3 yards from goal to the far post. very strange.

[Bluenose123]

Overall we played well, caused Arsenal problems and looked the better team overall. We can't blame the referee though, Naismith goal was offside and Giroud did pull on Distin shirt but it's part of the game. The team played well and overall good performance.

[Paddock]

the europa league may not involve much money byt it gets you known worldwide I would love us to win it regardless of the champions league entry.

So would I love us to win it. I was referring to him saying it was going to make us cash rich. It wont.

[markjazzbassist]

you all want to blame ossi for the first goal but not the man who let it roll past him 3 yards from goal to the far post. very strange.

 

joel we all know you want to start but getting on an internet forum and bashing tim howard is not the way to do it. practice well and win your place on game day that way. also i don't think roberto would be happy if he found out you were on a fan forum.

[Paddock]

 

joel we all know you want to start but getting on an internet forum and bashing tim howard is not the way to do it. practice well and win your place on game day that way. also i don't think roberto would be happy if he found out you were on a fan forum.

[MC11]

Thanks for that I was wondering how this whole forum thing worked.

 

 

 

 

So according to your logic you don't need emotions to be passionate then, someone can be dispassionately passionate, is that it?

 

 

 

 

So your saying the only time a person shows emotion is if they are angry, or wound up.

 

Is this how your emotions work? Because if the only emotion you show is anger, I think you need to seek professional help, quickly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What would convince you? I know how about playing each team in the league twice over a season and seeing how the defense does, if only we had a way of looking at that.

 

Hang on lets look at the 2013/14 season maybe that will tell us.

 

Yes it does.

 

We conceded 39 goals, the third tightest defense in the league behind Chelsea and City. Not luck, not a one off, a fact based on a entire seasons worth of games.

 

We have played 2 games this season, lets look at the table in 10 games time and then we can judge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you have never been convinced of Martinez defensive tactics, but his teams aren't suspect defensively?

 

Wow, just wow, one of the best definitions of an oxymoron I have read in a while. - Congrats.

Yaaaaawwwwn

[Newty82]

To be fair, the things that went wrong at Leicester couldn't be fixed in a week. We played well for 45 minutes at Leicester, and about 70 minutes against Arsenal. We should be able to pull off a full game against Chelsea (!!!). Fitness isn't a quick fix.

 

I am wondering if, with Bobby only being a young footy manager at 41, this would have been his first experience of having several players away at a world cup. The approach in pre season maybe reflects this. Low key, strange player choices, not many games etc. I guess there has to be a right balance between rest and intensity. I have no idea how they would figure out the best way...but I am sure that Bobby has analysed it all and probably, hopefully, learnt from it and be a better manager for it. To our advantage.

 

We'll be in full swing within a couple of games and will all be making cyber love again on this forum.

[Guest]

I think we are all pissed off that we should be sitting pretty with six points with the last week of the window to go and a game against Chelsea. A win there could have made the league take notice. For me Roberto deserves criticism for his poor substitutions and his inability to change things when the players were lagging. Osman is a great servant but was embarrassing on Saturday. He is so slow and offers nothing defensively as the first goal showed, I wouldn't even have him on the bench anymore ala Hibbert. Obviously we need some attacking players which may be sorted soon but the centre halves worry me. They get bullied too much and don't talk enough. Why we didn't go for Caulker I don't know

[London Blue]

Yaaaaawwwwn

Easy boy, dont get all emotional on me.

[MC11]

Easy boy, dont get all emotional on me.

I didn't mate, that's why I didn't take your bait.

[London Blue]

Yaaawwwwwn

[AlbanyNYToffee]

To be fair, the things that went wrong at Leicester couldn't be fixed in a week. We played well for 45 minutes at Leicester, and about 70 minutes against Arsenal. We should be able to pull off a full game against Chelsea (!!!). Fitness isn't a quick fix.

 

I am wondering if, with Bobby only being a young footy manager at 41, this would have been his first experience of having several players away at a world cup. The approach in pre season maybe reflects this. Low key, strange player choices, not many games etc. I guess there has to be a right balance between rest and intensity. I have no idea how they would figure out the best way...but I am sure that Bobby has analysed it all and probably, hopefully, learnt from it and be a better manager for it. To our advantage.

 

We'll be in full swing within a couple of games and will all be making cyber love again on this forum.

Spot on across the board

[Hafnia]

Lets be honest, Bobby with his philosphy is going to make decisions that are sometimes questionable. We have been very used to seeing us take strikers off and put a defensive player in the middle under Moyes and even still we concede goals.

 

I'm not saying that its the wrong choice to make, I believe that sometimes when you are holding on to a slender league the opposition team throws caution to the wind and that is why you see many late goals.

 

Saying that, it would have made sense to bring Besic on, I really don't understand why we haven't seen him in the past two games when he was a definate requirement given Barrys yellow card against Leicester, and Ossies legless last 20 minutes against Arsenal. I believe he broought Atsu on to deter Arsenal from over comitting and offering a counter threat.

 

I like the fact that thew goals we are scoring are coming from some lovely football. We aren't hitting and hoping, we are really showing some guile and creativity.

[Cornish Steve]

I like the fact that thew goals we are scoring are coming from some lovely football. We aren't hitting and hoping, we are really showing some guile and creativity.

 

Me too. Both goals against Arsenal were wonderful to see.

[Bailey]

We did do ok up until about 60 mins, Arsenal were frustrated, kicking us and whining at the ref but from 60 mins on we dropped deeper and deeper inviting them on, giving them the ball all the time in our final third. When we did win it back it was just kicked straight back to them and back they came again.

 

We should have put Besic on and reenforced the midfield and had someone in their with fresh legs to break the play up and stop them in our final third. Osman by that stage was a passenger.

 

Would you of made the same subs as he did? It's ok saying it was individual players and to a degree you're right . We did have loads back , how Ramsey managed to get infront of virtually our whole side is beyond me but with better subs those situations probably wouldn't of arisen. If we'd just closed shop a bit instead of inviting them on because wevwere so deep we would have won the game.

 

I wouldnt disagree Paddock. Our performance did drop off a cliff midway through that second half which is worrying. I think that our pass completion dropped to something like 60% in the last 10-15 minutes which is shocking for a team that was operating at 90% in the first half.

 

As I mentioned early on in the thread when the sub was made, I would have brought in Besic because I didnt fancy Osman to see out the game. That would be my criticism. I think Martinez was looking at the right now (in terms of Osman as an attacking force and his clever link up play) rather than the bigger picture at the end of the game. Osman did ok first half but he didnt offer much else after that and at one point before the goal Ramsey just dribbled past him like he wasnt there. I would have probably made the Lukaku substitution for McGeady too because that would have been a great counter attacking outlet on the right hand side. I'm not sure what I would have done on the 3rd sub. If the Besic sub had been made early, then I would have probably looked at bringing one of the young strikers on for Mirallas (presuming he needed to come off and couldnt have played on) and then moved Naismith wide (purely for defensive purposes). Preferably I would have just stuck with Mirallas because I thought he was doing well.

 

When the fuck did I say we were giving the ball away all half? Please quote it for me.....

 

Go on then Bailey, why did we concede the 2 goals and drop points? Was it not because we were completely gased the fuck out because we played with a narrow three man midfield and our wide players were seemingly told not to come back and help out?

 

I'd love to know your reasons.

 

If it wasnt you I apologise, I was probably meaning to refer back to your under the cosh for 90mins comment.

 

I have already mentioned why, several times. Lukaku was the only player with a license to stay forward which worked a treat for our second goal. Mirallas, Pienaar and even Naismith dropped in and got behind the ball when we were defending on the whole but being our attacking outlets they are always going to get caught upfield. Like Steve_E has already said, we had more than enough people back to deal with Arsenal's threat but the individuals fucked up well and truly. Arsenal's attacking threat is all through the centre and we snuffed it out well all game but certain players fucked up, we concede and then we drop another clanger to cap it all off. A 3 man central midfield has nothing to it other than maybe the personnel of the 3 man midfield which I have mentioned above (especially the paceless combination of Osman and Barry). I wouldnt disagree that the ball to Ramsey for the 2nd should have been made much harder but that should have been a case of Osman and McGeady both tucking in further because the ball from Chambers splits them in two far too easily. They are both goal side initially.

 

99/100 Jags and Distin will deal with second goal.

95/100 Seamus and McCarthy will stop the cross for the first goal coming in.

 

The rest of the team could have been standing on Szechny's goal line and we wouldnt have conceded in the same way had the two pairs above done their job correctly.

 

To be honest, despite the defensive cock ups, I would point the finger at Roberto again after subs coming on too late or the wrong player coming on. Something Moyes was mercilessly criticized for (quite rightly too). Atsu, won't be eligible for the next game, should've come on for Pienaar to give Arsenal something to fear, but no... He should've come on for Ossie around the 70 minute mark too to attack tired Arsenal legs.

 

If Roberto cannot get his players to play for 90 mins, physically or mentally, he has to look at his training methods. Its all very well and good trying to outscore the opposition, but you still need a sturdy back line. The main reason I am so annoyed is because we gave it away due to "mentally tired" despite being "phenomenal" for so long. Lessons were not learnt from Leicester. 4 points we have given away now in almost carbon copy circumstances; sloppy defending, tired players and wrong subs.

 

Lets hope Chelsea will suffer the wrath...

 

I agree there was an issue with the subs but Pienaar didnt look like he was playing wide to me (the positional map shows that he was playing in line with Distin and inside of where Mirallas played) so bringing Atsu on wouldnt have really helped, unless we were going to have a complete reshuffle and bring Naismith into the 3 more central midfielders and move Mirallas left and Lukaku upfront. If we were going to stick to our plan, which the first half scoreline showed Martinez was right to, then IMO it should have been for a more central midfielder in Besic. Once he brings Osman on, he puts himself into a corner because then you will potentially embarrass a senior player by taking him off before the end. I would agree that the wide player subs could have changed earlier but it was at that point that things really went downhill!

 

The probably with Moyes' subs is that we would be legless and in the 85th minute we bring on a slow, defensive player. We can all agree or disagree on who those players should or shouldnt have been but at least Martinez was thinking the right way. He wanted to make sure we had an attacking outlet so that we werent getting pinned back, unfortunately it didnt work because McGeady had a shocker and gave the ball away with almost every touch. I think the Leicester goals were completely different. We had no control over the game, we were getting pressed early and turning over the ball and even then the goals had an element of unluckyness about them. In this game (for the most part) we had control, we only had ourselves to beat, we made the right subs for the situation (in the second half) but we made silly errors. It might be fatigue, and there probably is an element of it, but for the 2nd goal Jags and Distin shouldnt be fatigued and they fucked up. Instead of showing why they are senior players, they showed inexperience. Both of them culpable of errors you would barely expect Stones or Duffy to make.

 

Anyway its gone now, this will be my last post on the matter.