Defensive Frailties

[foobiezw]

Something I've noticed during the pre-season and obviously the last 2 games is the alarming amount of goals we're now shipping.

 

While last seasons the defense wasn't exactly watertight, it did seem a helluva lot more reliable than our backline at the moment.

 

Can't seem to put my finger on what's exactly has gone wrong though. Anyone have any thoughts? Change in style/tactics, Distin/Jagielka/Stones losing it? Fatigue by the end of the match???

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Something I've noticed during the pre-season and obviously the last 2 games is the alarming amount of goals we're now shipping.

 

While last seasons the defense wasn't exactly watertight, it did seem a helluva lot more reliable than our backline at the moment.

 

Can't seem to put my finger on what's exactly has gone wrong though. Anyone have any thoughts? Change in style/tactics, Distin/Jagielka/Stones losing it? Fatigue by the end of the match???

 

 

I think it is down to the shambolic preseason. The players don't look fit enough to play 90 minutes of football at the moment and are having lapses of concentration as they get tired

 

I just don't think the players have been prepared for the start of the season and hopefully the mistakes will be eradicated as the players get upto speed, the season has basically started 3 weeks too early for us!

[EFC-Paul]

Agree with what Duncs has said

 

We fall off the pace massively in the last 20/15 minutes and look lackluster hence conceding late goals and making very poor defensive mistakes.

 

Piss poor pre season and I can only point the finger at Martinez I think his PR stint in Brazil has had a detrimental effect on how things have panned out so far.

[jofanon]

Terrible preseason.

 

Not many have hit the ground running.

 

Feel like Martinez blames the world cup but other teams have coped just fine.

 

Also feel like Jags' powers are on the wain

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Other teams were already playing frendlies before our squad had even returned to training

 

Normally we know what all the preseason games are going to be by early June at the latest, this year it was as though we were some Sunday League team phoning around trying to get a fixture lined up at the last minute. Its almost as though Bobby got back from the World Cup having expected someone else to have all the games lined up but nobody had taken responsibility

 

I know it was a World Cup year but we have never had such a disorganised mess as this in any other World Cup year

[Paddock]

Other teams were already playing frendlies before our squad had even returned to training

 

Normally we know what all the preseason games are going to be by early June at the latest, this year it was as though we were some Sunday League team phoning around trying to get a fixture lined up at the last minute. Its almost as though Bobby got back from the World Cup having expected someone else to have all the games lined up but nobody had taken responsibility

 

I know it was a World Cup year but we have never had such a disorganised mess as this in any other World Cup year

Totally agree, the pre season was a shambles.

[Guest rusty747]

Either this is superb long term fitness planning by Martinez (achieve optimum fitness and maintain it throughout the season rather than show signs of fatigue in March) or else he has made a major cock up. I hope for the former but I fear for the latter. I guess we will find out soon enough. Either way, we need a quality centre back asap. Distin is too old, Jags form has never been the same since his injury, Stones isn't quite ready and Duffy et al just aren't quite up to it. If we had a Kevin Ratcliffe to step in, I really think that could be the final piece in the jigsaw. Though a new quality 'keeper for next season is also a must I think.

[bluenosetoffee]

Totally agree, the pre season was a shambles.

 

I don't know how players can be unfit, these are supposed to be professional athletes aren't they!? They have all summer to get fitter.....I know they get their holidays where they won't be training but they've had the pre-season because of that reason! What are we doing in training as to why in 2 weeks players aren't fit enough to do 90 minutes!

[Brett Angel]

I put it down to not being able to defend properly.

[Paddock]

 

I don't know how players can be unfit, these are supposed to be professional athletes aren't they!? They have all summer to get fitter.....I know they get their holidays where they won't be training but they've had the pre-season because of that reason! What are we doing in training as to why in 2 weeks players aren't fit enough to do 90 minutes!

Training and the physicality of an actual game are different matey, you can't teach or train match sharpness or fitness. Only games get you that and none of our key players had much game time during pre season.

 

Also as Dunc has said it's almost like we forgot to organise one and rang around to see who would give us a game. It's been disjointed and unorganised and hasn't helped the players much in my opinion.

[BlueBlood81]

Piss poor pre season and I can only point the finger at Martinez I think his PR stint in Brazil has had a detrimental effect on how things have panned out so far.

Been thinking that for a while. Can't blame him for taking the opportunity to go Brazil but must have his priorities right.

[Newty82]

As said in the match day posts, it's down to match fitness. The pre season games were very low key with various fringe players playing in various positions. There was no intensity from our players. This may have been a deliberate strategy from Bobby. Only time will tell, as in when the real games kick in (cups, euros, the final 3rd of the season).

 

Certainly the reason for the shipping of late goals is the WHOLE team tiring. It's not down to individuals, or tactics or whatever. Just match fitness. If it's still the same in a few games time, I'm worried. Right now, I'm no where near worried.

[Romey 1878]

As said in the match day posts, it's down to match fitness.

That's a big part of why you have a pre-season though; to build that fitness. So if we're lacking that fitness then the pre-season was a failure.

[MC11]

 

I don't know how players can be unfit, these are supposed to be professional athletes aren't they!? They have all summer to get fitter.....I know they get their holidays where they won't be training but they've had the pre-season because of that reason! What are we doing in training as to why in 2 weeks players aren't fit enough to do 90 minutes!

It's also about the oppositions fitness. They've been much fitter in my opinion

[Cornish Steve]

Been thinking that for a while. Can't blame him for taking the opportunity to go Brazil but must have his priorities right.

 

If I understand it correctly, he was committed to commentating the World Cup even before he joined Everton.

[Bailey]

I can't believe for one second that Martinez being in Brazil had any effect whatsoever on our preseason. The teams he would have wanted to play would have been known by the end of last season.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I can't believe for one second that Martinez being in Brazil had any effect whatsoever on our preseason. The teams he would have wanted to play would have been known by the end of last season.

That's the point though pre season should have been sorted by the end of last season but instead we were ringing around asking just about anybody to give us a game as late as August

[Newty82]

That's a big part of why you have a pre-season though; to build that fitness. So if we're lacking that fitness then the pre-season was a failure.

Well, yeah. As kind of said in the next sentence. Although who really knows what the strategy was, if any? Man Utd had a real successful pre season.

 

We're just not fit. For what ever reason, we aren't fit. We're not a million miles away, we just haven't got that extra bit enough to maintain concentration for a full game.

 

It's coming though.

[Bailey]

That's the point though pre season should have been sorted by the end of last season but instead we were ringing around asking just about anybody to give us a game as late as August

 

Or we were just waiting to find out what other teams were doing what and where before committing to anything. I actually think we played some pretty decent teams so I dont think that is an issue and if we wanted more games then Im sure we could have easily sorted that out as well. The impression I get is that we didnt want too many games off the back of a WC when we were anticipating quite a few first teamers not being available until later in the pre-season. We would only be playing our bench/reserves/kids if we added more fixtures in at the start of the pre-season campaign which wouldnt make the slightest of difference now to anyone other than Coleman, McCarthy, Distin and Naismith who are probably the fittest currently anyway.

 

We arent the only team looking tired at the end of games and Arsenal werent exactly spring chickens until they scored their first goal either. Leicester were but then again I bet they didnt have very many players at the WC.

 

None us of really know what is going on fitness wise but I cant believe for one minute that its because of who or how many games we played in preseason.

[MikeO]

 

Or we were just waiting to find out what other teams were doing what and where before committing to anything. I actually think we played some pretty decent teams so I dont think that is an issue and if we wanted more games then Im sure we could have easily sorted that out as well. The impression I get is that we didnt want too many games off the back of a WC when we were anticipating quite a few first teamers not being available until later in the pre-season. We would only be playing our bench/reserves/kids if we added more fixtures in at the start of the pre-season campaign which wouldnt make the slightest of difference now to anyone other than Coleman, McCarthy, Distin and Naismith who are probably the fittest currently anyway.

 

We arent the only team looking tired at the end of games and Arsenal werent exactly spring chickens until they scored their first goal either. Leicester were but then again I bet they didnt have very many players at the WC.

 

None us of really know what is going on fitness wise but I cant believe for one minute that its because of who or how many games we played in preseason.

 

I agree.

 

Watch next April when we're still bouncing around like spring chickens while the rest of the league is treading water; Roberto's pre season will be seen as a stroke of genius. I hope .

[Cake]

We seem to have gone back to the dreaded (for me) zonal marking. Disaster waiting to happen, whoever uses it.

 

Also, I used to think Yobo looked like Bambi On Ice whenever he had the ball at his feet but Jagielka and Distin make him look like Franz Beckenbauer (or maybe Rio Ferdinand, when he was at his best, for those who only know the EPL)

[djsunyc]

just watched the 5 min highlight again. our defenders were just standing and watching on their heels when both cross kicks came in. they were either *tired* or were just *poor*. hope it's the former.

[Sibdane]

I'm okay woth zonal marking before they enter our third, but when in our third, and especially when on the wing? No way. Never let the cross come in of it can be helped.

[foobiezw]

just watched the 5 min highlight again. our defenders were just standing and watching on their heels when both cross kicks came in. they were either *tired* or were just *poor*. hope it's the former.

 

Agree with this. Too many times I've noticed our CBs either waiting on their heels or falling back deeper and deeper whenever the ball heads toward our back third.

 

Fitness aside, anyone else noticed that Jags and Distin seem almost afraid take charge of a defensive situation lately? The unchallenged balls into our box the last few weeks have made me lay many bricks in my trousers...

Edited August 28, 2014 by foobiezw

[bluenosetoffee]

They were pointing out this on MNF where Jags and Osman both had their hands on hips which is a sign of tiredness. When the ball came in against Arsenal nobody was in the right position. Also they pointed out that when Atsu and McGeady were on the pitch for the first goal they weren't tracking back. When Cazorla had the ball he walked past the defenders crossed it in and Ramsey got the goal. It was nothing special by Cazorla just we didn't challenge him, but Atsu, McGeady and Naismith were all on the centre line waiting to grab them on the counter. It is then when we need Atsu and McGeady to track back and defend. Pienaar does this all the time as does Mirallas.

 

I don't think we should be one of those teams that defends when getting the lead as I would rather grab another goal but also think we should have had Atsu and McGeady back a bit more to help the defending, especially when you could tell the players were tired.

[Paddock]

They were pointing out this on MNF where Jags and Osman both had their hands on hips which is a sign of tiredness. When the ball came in against Arsenal nobody was in the right position. Also they pointed out that when Atsu and McGeady were on the pitch for the first goal they weren't tracking back. When Cazorla had the ball he walked past the defenders crossed it in and Ramsey got the goal. It was nothing special by Cazorla just we didn't challenge him, but Atsu, McGeady and Naismith were all on the centre line waiting to grab them on the counter. It is then when we need Atsu and McGeady to track back and defend. Pienaar does this all the time as does Mirallas.

 

I don't think we should be one of those teams that defends when getting the lead as I would rather grab another goal but also think we should have had Atsu and McGeady back a bit more to help the defending, especially when you could tell the players were tired.

I think it was Cotto who pointed this out after the game. They'd obviously been told not to track back to not do it and if they hadn't been told not to track back they both want a rocket up their arse!

[Oztoffee]

We've always been slow starters. I've no idea why, but it may be pertinent that we havn't had too many on the field so far that were not part of the Moyes era. This slow starting could be his legacy so to speak, but it's up to Bobby however to knock this out of them.

 

I can't help feeling that the season seemed far away for the players in June/July and they were not really into the whole thing until Bobby came back from Brazil to find that while he was way fukc-all had happened and there was a real hurry-up to organise pre-season games and instil a feeling of get up and go in the playing staff. I guess we'll never know but I guarantee that this will be the last time it happens.

Don't forget Bobby's learning too here.

 

A sign of the times however......3 or 4 years ago we would have been chuffed at getting a point out of the Arse. Now we're on the warpath because we dropped 2 points!

Edited August 28, 2014 by Oztoffee

[Cornish Steve]

Four weeks ago, everyone was panicking, claiming that the team was strong except for an obvious lack of firepower upfront. Now that problem has been addressed, we're back claiming that the defence is frail! Sometimes, you can never win. But the positive in this is that we're constantly looking to improve. To put all this in perspective, though, the problems today in defence are nowhere near as dire as the problems we had a month ago upfront.

[Matt]

Four weeks ago, everyone was panicking, claiming that the team was strong except for an obvious lack of firepower upfront. Now that problem has been addressed, we're back claiming that the defence is frail! Sometimes, you can never win. But the positive in this is that we're constantly looking to improve. To put all this in perspective, though, the problems today in defence are nowhere near as dire as the problems we had a month ago upfront.

I wasnt that concerned about our defence until they gave me cause to worry in 5 successive games (granted 3 were preseason). I've not been worried about our striking options at all.

[Paddock]

Four weeks ago, everyone was panicking, claiming that the team was strong except for an obvious lack of firepower upfront. Now that problem has been addressed, we're back claiming that the defence is frail! Sometimes, you can never win. But the positive in this is that we're constantly looking to improve. To put all this in perspective, though, the problems today in defence are nowhere near as dire as the problems we had a month ago upfront.

I only became worried about the defense after watching us playing like the keystone cops all pre season but even then I thought it would be ok and was just a pre season hiccup. However, watching them in the opening goals has now got me worried.

 

I was really concerned about our striking options. Lukaku and Eto'o have made me feel happy about it although a sneaky loan who can play attack mid and striker would have me even happier.