seve Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I don't know if shelveys for sale or for how much I was just making the point we can not afford the likes of mata or moderich excuse the spelling,but shelvey would be a big asset and in our price range imo Barkley does not possess a range of passes sadly he never looks up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Shelvey has all the skills to be a top top player. However he just doesn't seem to ever progress to the next level. I personally would t have him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Shelvey has all the skills to be a top top player. However he just doesn't seem to ever progress to the next level. I personally would t have him. you could say the same about Ross but in the end it all about opinions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 you could say the same about Ross but in the end it all about opinions Shelvey went to Swansea for £5m; for Ross you can put a zero after the five if he fulfils his potential, if Shelvey sorts himself out he can be a £10m player. The two shouldn't be talked about in the same breath imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) Shelvey went to Swansea for £5m; for Ross you can put a zero after the five if he fulfils his potential, if Shelvey sorts himself out he can be a £10m player. The two shouldn't be talked about in the same breath imo. I was answering to the fact shelvey has all the skills to be a top player but has not fulfilled that and like it or not Ross is in the same bracket at the moment, I never mentioned price or who would sell for what , I think you are having your own argument with yourself. at this present time shelvey influences a game a lot more than Ross. IMO Edited April 29, 2015 by seve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Shelvey is still only 23 Ross only 21 they both have time to fulfil their potentials. Transfermarkt - probably the most realistic player valuation website has Shelvey valued at £9m and Barkley at £14m. That's probably about right for what both are putting out on the field atm. However you're paying a premium for their potential. To prize Shelvey away you're probably looking at £15m+ Barkley - £35m+ (Current ability) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I was answering to the fact shelvey has all the skills to be a top player but has not fulfilled that and like it or not Ross is in the same bracket at the moment, I never mentioned price or who would sell for what , I think you are having your own argument with yourself. at this present time shelvey influences a game a lot more than Ross. IMO I'm not arguing with anyone, I'm just giving my opinion, which is what you said it was all about (and I agree with you 100%). My opinion is that Ross is on a different planet to Shelvey. Ten years time Ross will have 100+ England caps and Shelvey will be lucky if he improves on his current total of one. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I've got to be honest here. I've seen unbelievable potential in Shelvey.... I just don't know what missing but one week he can be unplayable and the next he's awful. I think he lacks consistent concentration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I've got to be honest here. I've seen unbelievable potential in Shelvey.... I just don't know what missing but one week he can be unplayable and the next he's awful. I think he lacks consistent concentration. He signed long term contract with Liverpool in July 2012 but was then sold for a (relative) pittance twelve months later. Liverpool obviously didn't see the potential that you did. Can see the inspired moments from him but far too few and far between for me. Wouldn't want him anywhere near Everton. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Jamie Carragher made a few comments about Shelvey on Sky a while back. He said he had the ability to be in Liverpools first team, but he didn't have the mentality to be there. The lad has undoubted ability, but he could win you the game, lose you the game or get sent off, all at any given moment. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 I'm not arguing with anyone, I'm just giving my opinion, which is what you said it was all about (and I agree with you 100%). My opinion is that Ross is on a different planet to Shelvey. Ten years time Ross will have 100+ England caps and Shelvey will be lucky if he improves on his current total of one. I know there will be some flack coming my way but I think Ross has reached his potential I think hes another franny Jeffers, promising youngster who never improved at 21 hes still not a first choice at EFC this is not an attack on some one I don't like I think the kid is great but I don't think he will ever be a great player good enough for us maybe but not as good as a lot of people on this site think. this of course is only one mans opinion I will be interested in the feed back. as for 100+ caps not even 25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 A lot of the evidence is pointing to him being an early bloomer who may just turn out a very good player rather than an exceptional one. That's just based on the stagnation of his progress. I really hope he starts to take the bull by the horns but personally I'm convinced his best position is CM and if he doesn't start playing there soon we may not see the best of him here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Agree with Crusty and MC that's why I've been saying sell him. We'd be mad to turn down 30 million never mind 50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I believe that by the end of next season you will all look back and think you were crazy. Barkley is going to light the place up next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Amazing ain't it, Lukaku is gonna be the next big thing despite some real development areas. But he's still only 21. Ross is the same age, has all the talent in the world and needs more coaching and mental maturity to master a more complex position but he isn't gonna be the player people think. I'm not expecting anyone to poach any of us posters to be scouts any time soon. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Amazing ain't it, Lukaku is gonna be the next big thing despite some real development areas. But he's still only 21. Ross is the same age, has all the talent in the world and needs more coaching and mental maturity to master a more complex position but he isn't gonna be the player people think. I'm not expecting anyone to poach any of us posters to be scouts any time soon. :shaking fist: I hate in when I have to agree with you! Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Amazing ain't it, Lukaku is gonna be the next big thing despite some real development areas. But he's still only 21. Ross is the same age, has all the talent in the world and needs more coaching and mental maturity to master a more complex position but he isn't gonna be the player people think. I'm not expecting anyone to poach any of us posters to be scouts any time soon. Completely agree. The mental maturity is all the lad needs and it will come with experience. I can't wait to see Ross playing next season. He, like Lukaku, have been asked to change their way of playing drastically which was simply poor man-management; too much change, too quick. You can apply that to all the squad mind, but the youngsters are going to be the ones who suffer. Next season we will see the benefits of this "learning" season, provided Ross isn't deployed out wide so often and so long as the team doesn't suck for half the season. :shaking fist: I hate in when I have to agree with you! Especially when he uses Lukaku as an example for the right reasons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Can't wait for people to eat their words over Ross, the lad has it all and will prove it. I know you'll all be happy to eat your words mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Matt....do us a favour and write Barkley off please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Matt....do us a favour and write Barkley off please. He's shite, will never learn because he hasn't got 2 brain cells to rub together and we'd be better off cashing in for stupid money rather than gamble on having our very own, born and bred leader for the next 10-15 years. Toffee_in_LA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) I hope you are all right, and I eat my words, maybe even take a trip to burtons window but history tells me at 21 you got it or you aint Harvey Kendal Ball in the past Rooney in the present Gascoigne anyone whos been good has got it all at 21 Ross still can not see a pass, he tackles like scholes, when he dribbles he does not know when to stop im sorry I just don't see the player you lot do and I don't see the valuation you seem to put on him would you want Everton to buy him at between 30 to 50 mil as has been quoted on here. I don't think so but I hope im wrong. Edited May 1, 2015 by seve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) I think I've given a fair assessment of Barkley. My top two favourite players in the current side however (this season more so) I think his development has gone stagnant/backwards. All the talent in the world you'd have to be blind not to see that but for me he's a central midfielder and until we see him there regularly I don't think we'll see his full potential on a consistent basis. Edited May 1, 2015 by MC11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I hope you are all right, and I eat my words, maybe even take a trip to burtons window but history tells me at 21 you got it or you aint Harvey Kendal Ball in the past Rooney in the present Gascoigne anyone whos been good has got it all at 21 Ross still can not see a pass, he tackles like scholes, when he dribbles he does not know when to stop im sorry I just don't see the player you lot do and I don't see the valuation you seem to put on him would you want Everton to buy him at between 30 to 50 mil as has been quoted on here. I don't think so but I hope im wrong. I watched Gazza have some real stinkers as an 18-21 year old and he was getting full match time with no real injuries. A very raw player indeed. It took Stevie G till he was 21-22 to have his breakout season and this is a lad who is a born leader with great mental strength. Both players, arguably 2 of Englands best midfielders of the last 30 years were not near the player the were famed for becoming. So saying that, it is all guess work as to where Ross becomes as a player... With his talent - my guess work is that he is way ahead of the average 21 year old = very good player in the making. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I watched Gazza have some real stinkers as an 18-21 year old and he was getting full match time with no real injuries. A very raw player indeed. It took Stevie G till he was 21-22 to have his breakout season and this is a lad who is a born leader with great mental strength. Both players, arguably 2 of Englands best midfielders of the last 30 years were not near the player the were famed for becoming. So saying that, it is all guess work as to where Ross becomes as a player... With his talent - my guess work is that he is way ahead of the average 21 year old = very good player in the making. both the players you mention had the basic skills when they were 16 ie pass, get your head up, and an eye for goal. all that happened then was it was finely tuned both were regular first teamers as well when people say Lukaku is still learning they mean fine tuning for the last 3 years he has scored over 15 PL goals so most of his talent was there 3 years ago its not with Ross. as I said I hope im wrong and again would you pay 30 to 50 mil for him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 both the players you mention had the basic skills when they were 16 ie pass, get your head up, and an eye for goal. all that happened then was it was finely tuned both were regular first teamers as well when people say Lukaku is still learning they mean fine tuning for the last 3 years he has scored over 15 PL goals so most of his talent was there 3 years ago its not with Ross. as I said I hope im wrong and again would you pay 30 to 50 mil for him? We don't spend that amount of money on players; but if I was City or United I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 The game has sped up in leaps recent years though and this is why we don't see many 16 year old wonder kids. Has Lukaku gone backwards because he has only scored 9 PLG this year? I think a few of our players have had a year of transitioning and we'll see the benefits next year. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 both the players you mention had the basic skills when they were 16 ie pass, get your head up, and an eye for goal. all that happened then was it was finely tuned both were regular first teamers as well when people say Lukaku is still learning they mean fine tuning for the last 3 years he has scored over 15 PL goals so most of his talent was there 3 years ago its not with Ross. as I said I hope im wrong and again would you pay 30 to 50 mil for him? basic skills like controlling a football? (sorry Rom) I watched Barkley hit 5 or 6 balls left footed and right footed from 20 yards into an empty bag at half time - and you say he can't pass??? Eye for goal? He can score from distance with either foot and take a free kick. Not sure what you are looking for if i'm honest because I just completely disagree. Whe someone like Carragher and Neville say this lad has everything you need to be world class then I tend to listen. Whether I like them or not they know their stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) basic skills like controlling a football? (sorry Rom) I watched Barkley hit 5 or 6 balls left footed and right footed from 20 yards into an empty bag at half time - and you say he can't pass??? Eye for goal? He can score from distance with either foot and take a free kick. Not sure what you are looking for if i'm honest because I just completely disagree. Whe someone like Carragher and Neville say this lad has everything you need to be world class then I tend to listen. Whether I like them or not they know their stuff. Had to get your dig in also, his touch has improved a lot, so you need to let it go. Agree with the rest Edited May 1, 2015 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 basic skills like controlling a football? (sorry Rom) I watched Barkley hit 5 or 6 balls left footed and right footed from 20 yards into an empty bag at half time - and you say he can't pass??? Eye for goal? He can score from distance with either foot and take a free kick. Not sure what you are looking for if i'm honest because I just completely disagree. Whe someone like Carragher and Neville say this lad has everything you need to be world class then I tend to listen. Whether I like them or not they know their stuff. are the wonderful game its all about opinions and we obviously disagree balls into an empty net I would be disappointed if after 10 years of doing nothing else if I missed goals 2 or 3 a season killer passes in a game yet to see one lifting his head to see whats on never happens he goes missing for long periods in a game you forget hes on the pitch as I said opinions only time will tell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 are the wonderful game its all about opinions and we obviously disagree balls into an empty net I would be disappointed if after 10 years of doing nothing else if I missed goals 2 or 3 a season killer passes in a game yet to see one lifting his head to see whats on never happens he goes missing for long periods in a game you forget hes on the pitch as I said opinions only time will tell Agee with part of that but this is only his second season playing in the first team, and this season the team was shite/learning. He needs more game time to learn will he learn? That's were time will tell, but since he's so young and has proven he can be dynamic in other aspects of his game, I see no reason why he can't learn distribution, killer passes or wide distribution alike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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