chalkpie Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Just chatted to a lad in work who wants Martinez gone, very interesting verbally discussing as opposed to forum posting. The feeling I get is that "something just doesn't fill him with confidence that he is the right manager" - nothing specific, just meh. He said the brand of football is boring, but he also said he was bored under Moyes. Is this more of a case of many fans accepting that without "real money" we are destined for average here there and everywhere. Is martinez just another manager who will hit a glass ceiling and in general fans are just bored???!!! I sort of have this same feeling. Nice guy, smart, yet not willing to admit he was at fault for a lot of this season. Maybe his brand of football is wrong for this team - I dunno. Even though we're winning again, I don't feel like we are kicking ass out there - more like scraping the bottom of the barrel for a win at times - which is fine - but this team is not firing on all cylinders - that is for sure. It feels somewhere above mediocrity right now, whereas last season we were kicking some ass. To me its a big difference, yet the same team and manager? I really don't know if we can repeat that from what I'm seeing currently. We have taken a few steps back this season, and hopefully we'll learn from them...or not. Positivity helps but sometimes you need some anger to show some real passion. So many things to think about with this team right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kant Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 the possession football has always been a source of disdain for me. I only quote to make a difference: posession football can be slow or fast. I don't mind the team playing fast one-two passing game, but I get bored if they play it slow and safe. IMO there is a big difference between playing it slow and safe in the final third of the pitch -and therefore becoming predictable and boring (i.e.: this year)- and playing fast once you reach the final third. For me that is the area of the field where you need to risk to play ambitious one-twos, one touch combination of passes and balls through. To pass it around safely in the final third, slowly, then cross for Lukaku to try to head the ball while being sandwiched is hopelessly boring. But the difference is the pace of the ball. It is more probable that you lose posession but then again, when any teams cross and all the defenders are positioned, your chances of success are quite slim. Same for some other teams, Arsenal are really good when they realize they have to move the ball fast and try one touch passes to break through defenses. However, when they play it slow and safe they seem unable to find a cutting edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 I only quote to make a difference: posession football can be slow or fast. I don't mind the team playing fast one-two passing game, but I get bored if they play it slow and safe. IMO there is a big difference between playing it slow and safe in the final third of the pitch -and therefore becoming predictable and boring (i.e.: this year)- and playing fast once you reach the final third. For me that is the area of the field where you need to risk to play ambitious one-twos, one touch combination of passes and balls through. To pass it around safely in the final third, slowly, then cross for Lukaku to try to head the ball while being sandwiched is hopelessly boring. But the difference is the pace of the ball. It is more probable that you lose posession but then again, when any teams cross and all the defenders are positioned, your chances of success are quite slim. Same for some other teams, Arsenal are really good when they realize they have to move the ball fast and try one touch passes to break through defenses. However, when they play it slow and safe they seem unable to find a cutting edge. Very true, but for the most part possession football is slow and tedious in my eyes, bar very few teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Very true, but for the most part possession football is slow and tedious in my eyes, bar very few teams. I agree matt. Spain's 4-5 year world domination bored me to death. Watching their national team and barca put me to sleep. Meanwhile watching Dortmund versus Munich in the CL finals had me on the edge of my seat. All action fast pressing and quick movement, I do enjoy a more direct approach. I enjoyed moyes style for this, I just didn't enjoy his tactics when we got ahead and would defend and stop attacking. Matt and Quinn31 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 I agree matt. Spain's 4-5 year world domination bored me to death. Watching their national team and barca put me to sleep. Meanwhile watching Dortmund versus Munich in the CL finals had me on the edge of my seat. All action fast pressing and quick movement, I do enjoy a more direct approach. I enjoyed moyes style for this, I just didn't enjoy his tactics when we got ahead and would defend and stop attacking. I enjoyed Barca only because of Messi who could / can become electric in a second. Saw them play in the Nou Camp, Champions League against Stugartt in 2010 (I think) and they were brilliant. There has to be a balance between direct, possession and speed. As soon as it becomes unbalanced, it becomes boring. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 I am confused by the term 'slow and safe'. Why is slow assumed to be safe? Both England and Everton have given goals away by sloppy passing across the back four. Slow = complacency, lack of concentration= passes going astray or intercepted. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Another season like the one we've just had would be a disaster for Everton, sure we are probably now going to finish top half, but come on 'top half', with Baines, Jags, Stones, Coleman, Barkley, Mirallas, Lukaku, McCarthy etc is pretty poor return. The football at times, large amount of times has been awfull, dreadfull tac-tics, etc.Watching Everton play was a sentance. Martinez for me 'has' got it wrong, will he be here next season, put your house on it, will he, can he, change......don't put your house on it. I'm just glad we didn't 'sack' Moyes to get Martinez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 I can guarantee now if we carry on playing the way we are and he is still here after next season I will not renew my season ticket for the first time in a LONG time. I've literally had to drag myself to games this season, it's no fun its like a job. I can't carry on paying to watch the absolute drivel that's been served up this season I really can't. If the enjoyments gone then what's the point? If we're still playing the same brand of football by christmas I will stop going until Martinez has gone. I'm not talking about results or league position here I'm talking about the football I'm watching. I'm not sitting there week in week out, freezing, soaking, sometimes ill or whatever to watch absolute dross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 He won't change Pad, not a chance. He might add more pace to his style, but possession will always be key for him. For me Bayern have it spot on. Pep has them playing with the skill of the Barca teams, but with more physicality, aggression and pace. I much prefer watching this Bayern side than any other for quite some time. Probably since Arsenals invincibles i think, as they had the Arsenal style we are used to but still had power and aggression in the defence and Viera and Petit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 He won't change Pad, not a chance. He might add more pace to his style, but possession will always be key for him. For me Bayern have it spot on. Pep has them playing with the skill of the Barca teams, but with more physicality, aggression and pace. I much prefer watching this Bayern side than any other for quite some time. Probably since Arsenals invincibles i think, as they had the Arsenal style we are used to but still had power and aggression in the defence and Viera and Petit. i much preferred the heyneckes bayern to peps. they were more direct and pressed harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 He won't change Pad, not a chance. He might add more pace to his style, but possession will always be key for him. For me Bayern have it spot on. Pep has them playing with the skill of the Barca teams, but with more physicality, aggression and pace. I much prefer watching this Bayern side than any other for quite some time. Probably since Arsenals invincibles i think, as they had the Arsenal style we are used to but still had power and aggression in the defence and Viera and Petit. I can deal with the possesion football Steve, it's the lack of penetration, the lack of urgency, the lack of excitement, the lack of anything positive going forwards, I could list all night. I don't mind posession football I'm not it's biggest fan but I can live with it but I cannot cope with another season of the drivel that's been served up this season. It's mind numbingly boring even my 8 year old is saying he's bored. You know what it's like Steve, 8 years old you're pissing yourself like it's christmas every game you go to. It's a bad sign when a child is saying he's bored!! Devoid of any forward thinking this season and I'm gone by christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 I can guarantee now if we carry on playing the way we are and he is still here after next season I will not renew my season ticket for the first time in a LONG time. I've literally had to drag myself to games this season, it's no fun its like a job. I can't carry on paying to watch the absolute drivel that's been served up this season I really can't. If the enjoyments gone then what's the point? If we're still playing the same brand of football by christmas I will stop going until Martinez has gone. I'm not talking about results or league position here I'm talking about the football I'm watching. I'm not sitting there week in week out, freezing, soaking, sometimes ill or whatever to watch absolute dross. And yet we sell out for a dead game against relegation fodder, restricted views and all. In fact our average home league attendances are actually higher this season than they were last by about five hundred (38,287 to 37,732) so people are still coming to see us despite the dreadful form and extra games. Can understand the frustration but I don't really don't go along with it. Martinez is criticised for the passing game, Moyes was criticised for hoofball; both get/got stick for strange team selections, playing people out of position and odd substitutions. Moyes was too defensive in trying to hold on to a lead, Martinez is the opposite. What I'm saying is that I don't see how what we're seeing now is any worse than we've been seeing through the Moyes years; and it's a lot better than some of the dross that came before. I'm in the camp that thinks Roberto will learn from this season and we'll be better next; not as high as fifth maybe but knocking on the door. PS If you stop going in December can I borrow your season ticket? Quinn31 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 And yet we sell out for a dead game against relegation fodder, restricted views and all. In fact our average home league attendances are actually higher this season than they were last by about five hundred (38,287 to 37,732) so people are still coming to see us despite the dreadful form and extra games. Can understand the frustration but I don't really don't go along with it. Martinez is criticised for the passing game, Moyes was criticised for hoofball; both get/got stick for strange team selections, playing people out of position and odd substitutions. Moyes was too defensive in trying to hold on to a lead, Martinez is the opposite. What I'm saying is that I don't see how what we're seeing now is any worse than we've been seeing through the Moyes years; and it's a lot better than some of the dross that came before. I'm in the camp that thinks Roberto will learn from this season and we'll be better next; not as high as fifth maybe but knocking on the door. PS If you stop going in December can I borrow your season ticket? Maybe more people like that brand of football. Personally I don't. I find it dull, boring, it doesn't excite me. I can't remember the last game where I was on the edge of my seat. We could sell out ten times over it still wouldn't make me enjoy it any more. The grounds always full but the atmospheres flat, it's dead, nobody sings, there's no anticipation no buzz no nothing it's just flat. If I do stop going you can have my season ticket mate and you can hold me to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Paddock you don't go anyway mate. You're a chuffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Paddock you don't go anyway mate. You're a chuffer. Course I don't sunshine. I'm not going to explain the shit troll stuff again if you never got it the first time you never will. I also don't need to post a pic of my season ticket to prove I have one like you were trolled into doing to justify yourself . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 I do love the whole smashy and nicey approach to being a match goer... "I buy a season ticket... But I don't like to talk about it" It's like seeing your mates on Facebook share their location With a pic of a pint every time they go for a meal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Course I don't sunshine. I'm not going to explain the shit troll stuff again if you never got it the first time you never will. I also don't need to post a pic of my season ticket to prove I have one like you were trolled into doing to justify yourself . You couldn't anyway. As you don't have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Martinez out! Matt and Quinn31 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Martinez has had all season to get us playing, little too late for me. We're playing for fuckall with 4 games to go. The sign of a shite season. At the moment we aren't exactly playing good football either but we're getting results. Still want him gone because no doubt he'll revert back to boring possession based football next season and come game 35 next season we'll be sitting in the exact same position. Woooo we beat United 3-0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 What a ray of sunshine you are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 What a ray of sunshine you are! Telling the truth. It's a false dawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Martinez has had all season to get us playing, little too late for me. We're playing for fuckall with 4 games to go. The sign of a shite season. At the moment we aren't exactly playing good football either but we're getting results. Still want him gone because no doubt he'll revert back to boring possession based football next season and come game 35 next season we'll be sitting in the exact same position. Woooo we beat United 3-0. I can see what your saying We were talking about this in the boozer afterwards and the general consensus was why the fuck did it take him until February to change his tactics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 I can see what your saying We were talking about this in the boozer afterwards and the general consensus was why the fuck did it take him until February to change his tactics? He'll revert back. Mark my words. He's had his "2nd season" which allows excuses. No Europa and a fresh start come August = no excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Martinez like most forum posters probably doesn't like to think he is wrong. Me included. Disclaimer over.... So he gets us playing well, in mid table, twat an on form United team and give them the biggest win over them in 20 years and he's still getting slated??? Seriously, fuck off lads. Chatting shite. I've held him accountable for the garbage we've seen but give credit where it's due. He handled a mutiny, readdressed tactics and has shown some real bottle. You call Rom a young player who needs to learn? He's a young manager likewise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 He'll revert back. Mark my words. He's had his "2nd season" which allows excuses. No Europa and a fresh start come August = no excuses. "Mark my words" from you actually had us relegated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 "Mark my words" from you actually had us relegated. You had McGeady and Kone as key players. Nuff sed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Being optimistic about two players based on their attributes whilst they were getting undue shit before having any match time and sticking the boot into a manager going through a bad patch is a whole different ball game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 I've never said "Mark my words" as far as I know. You have, we survived relegation and McCarthy was man of the match. A real pisser for you eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Martinez like most forum posters probably doesn't like to think he is wrong. Me included. Disclaimer over.... So he gets us playing well, in mid table, twat an on form United team and give them the biggest win over them in 20 years and he's still getting slated??? Seriously, fuck off lads. Chatting shite. I've held him accountable for the garbage we've seen but give credit where it's due. He handled a mutiny, readdressed tactics and has shown some real bottle. You call Rom a young player who needs to learn? He's a young manager likewise How is that chatting shite? Everybody could see that his game plan wasn't working way back in September but Roberto refused to budge until February. Credit were its due, once the penny finally dropped he has changed it and the results have followed, although I disagree that he has got us playing well. Hopefully he has learnt a lot from this season and we can move on from here. That's not slating him and I have never called for his head. I just wish he hadn't been so stubborn and had changed things around earlier Gwlad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 I've never said "Mark my words" as far as I know. You have, we survived relegation and McCarthy was man of the match. A real pisser for you eh? Think you're getting "mark my words & relegation" in the same sentence mixed up with Paddock. If you can find a post of mine saying that fair do'a but don't remember posting it. Remember paddock doing so though. I couldn't care less in McCarthy got MOTM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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