EFC-Paul Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Crusty other's have the opinion that he has the potential to become a great player some world class just because you don't agree with that doesn't mean you need beat the drum so hard it's all opinions Its not just the media that have hyped him up its been managers and coaches from various levels that have more footballing insight and knowledge than any of us on here who's opinion I personally would take above any match goer regardless if how long that is I'd say he's currently a decent player but potentially a very good player I hate the term "world class" it's used to freely and there's very little way to categorise such players apart from the handful of obvious ones but I do think he lacks that mentality and sharpness up top if he can mature in that regard then who knows similar to Shelvy decent player could become good but thick as pig shit Either way he's our player and he's a great asset to have and part of what could be a great young spine of a side Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 At what age can we genuinely say he should be consistently dominating games though? He'll have 2 seasons experience (there or there about) next season. I personally think the progression train has to start moving a lot quicker. Big season for Ross this next one. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 At what age can we genuinely say he should be consistently dominating games though? He'll have 2 seasons experience (there or there about) next season. I personally think the progression train has to start moving a lot quicker. Big season for Ross this next one. I'd say the same next season he should step it up but people don't help comparing him to players that other than age bare very little comparison and even those they do compare him to have been very hit and miss at times He has the physical capabilities to be a great player mentally I'm not sure if his head catches up with his feet then we have some player on our hands but it's a big if The worst case scenario with him is we have a good young player on our hands with very good technical ability people have been drawn into the media hype to much just let him play and see what happens abit further down the line MC11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Lucky man, having seen the greats. But rest assured, my generation of Walker, Smith and Moyes has had some experience too. You seem to be missing the key words, being experience and potential. Both are realized by game time. I've got a lot of time and patience for youth, don't think that could be argued by anyone. But talk about impatience, you're willing to dismiss a kids potential because of a poor season in a poor team. I have all the patience in the world with youth which is why im trying to get you lot off his back with all this stupid talk about how good he is or could be or might be just leave the lad alone take him off that pedicel and lets see what happens the pressure hes under from you lot and the manager is holding him back he has proved nothing yet but who knows without all this hype he just might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 I'd say the same next season he should step it up but people don't help comparing him to players that other than age bare very little comparison and even those they do compare him to have been very hit and miss at times He has the physical capabilities to be a great player mentally I'm not sure if his head catches up with his feet then we have some player on our hands but it's a big if The worst case scenario with him is we have a good young player on our hands with very good technical ability people have been drawn into the media hype to much just let him play and see what happens abit further down the line The only thing that doesn't help is the dickheads at the match expecting him to take 5 players on and score a screamer every time he gets the ball and get on his back constantly. That's what affects him there's no need for it, the weight of expectationon him is grossly unfair but anything written on an internet forum has no bearing on how he performs. His lack of goals and assists worry me greatly also his inability to see a passor make a simple pass and his persistent giving the ball away sloppy play makes me think he's just not going to make the very top grade. . Just having 2 good feet and being able to run with the ball isn't enough and at 21 he should be improving by now if anything he's regressing imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 I have all the patience in the world with youth which is why im trying to get you lot off his back with all this stupid talk about how good he is or could be or might be just leave the lad alone take him off that pedicel and lets see what happens the pressure hes under from you lot and the manager is holding him back he has proved nothing yet but who knows without all this hype he just might. Unless the lad reads this forum, I don't think us getting excited is any problem. Your argument is valid if aimed at the media, not the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) Fully agree with that mate especially the expectation from some fans he's just another "victim" of the British media and he won't be the last young player hyped up with some degree of ability then shot down at the first opportunity similar to how they act with the national side It's hard to really judge him this season as the rest of the side have been piss poor for the most part and he's been used in the wrong way and there's not many players that would have faired mich differently in the same circumstances Crusty I very much doubt he takes note of what we write on here if some choose to rate him as highly as they do then so be it their opinion not yours Edited May 6, 2015 by EFC-Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) At what age can we genuinely say he should be consistently dominating games though? He'll have 2 seasons experience (there or there about) next season. I personally think the progression train has to start moving a lot quicker. Big season for Ross this next one. Agreed, last season i'd consider a full one, started 31 matches all competitions and subbed in 9. This year it's 25 started and 10 subs which is pretty much a full year barring his injury. I think if he's played correctly in the box to box or attacking mid role he will have a nice season next year. Also if we actually sign a proper winger to go with mirallas it will take some pressure off him because we will have a proper attacking front line with kev and lukaku. Edited May 6, 2015 by markjazzbassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elston Gunnn Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 .... the key words, being experience and potential. Both are realized by game time. As this Ross-debate has cropped up on the "Has Martinez got it wrong?" thread, here's a minor point, but one important to me. I was disappointed to see Naismith starting ahead of Barkley against Villa. While I don't think Naismith the shite that some on TT do, I do think Naismith's strengths and weaknesses are pretty clear, so he'll not appreciably improve either his play or my opinion thereof over our final 3 matches. We know what Naismith can and cannot do. But we're not totally certain about who Barkley can become, and we (not to mention Roberto) will learn a whole lot more if he's on the pitch for, say, 250 minutes the next 3 weeks. There's more to gain for the future, and probably for this season, too, by playing Barkley, not Naismith, at ACM. So, as to Barkley very specifically, my answer to the thread question is, " Roberto's got it stupidly wrong if he starts Naismith over Barkley even a single time the rest of this season." Matt and markjazzbassist 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Martinez has it wrong because Barkley should be playing as a central midfielder. McCarthy sitting markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Unless the lad reads this forum, I don't think us getting excited is any problem. Your argument is valid if aimed at the media, not the fans. I mostly meant the numptys at the match who are always on his back to do something amazing every time he gets the ball i assume also come on here as well and the media of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elston Gunnn Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Martinez has it wrong because Barkley should be playing as a central midfielder. McCarthy sitting Good point here, despite the fact that above I discussed Barkley and Naismith as ACMs. Although an ACM is a central midfielder, it seems clear that Barkley is more suited to receiving the ball further back and dribbling/attacking, using his speed and strength to knock past defenders. In effect, Barkley seems best as a "withdrawn" (?) but not "defensive" midfielder. He's not best this month subbing for the useful but more limited Naismith. In the short term -- last 3 matches -- I assume Barry keeps playing (which itself raises the issue of whether Roberto has it wrong not using Besic, as, analogous to Naismith, we know what Barry can do, but need to see Besic). As long as RM keeps 2 DMs, it's Barkley or Naismith as ACM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 As this Ross-debate has cropped up on the "Has Martinez got it wrong?" thread, here's a minor point, but one important to me. I was disappointed to see Naismith starting ahead of Barkley against Villa. While I don't think Naismith the shite that some on TT do, I do think Naismith's strengths and weaknesses are pretty clear, so he'll not appreciably improve either his play or my opinion thereof over our final 3 matches. We know what Naismith can and cannot do. But we're not totally certain about who Barkley can become, and we (not to mention Roberto) will learn a whole lot more if he's on the pitch for, say, 250 minutes the next 3 weeks. There's more to gain for the future, and probably for this season, too, by playing Barkley, not Naismith, at ACM. So, as to Barkley very specifically, my answer to the thread question is, " Roberto's got it stupidly wrong if he starts Naismith over Barkley even a single time the rest of this season." Fully agree with this we should also be giving game time to Robles and garbut for the same reasons mentioned above as I said some weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacs Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 Martinez has it wrong because Barkley should be playing as a central midfielder. McCarthy sitting Which would correct another mistake. Which is playing Barry week in week out. Matt, MC11 and markjazzbassist 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherpa Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Poor yet again today against relegation threatened opposition!! Why play 4 central midfielders in a five??? Lack of natural width cost us as well as poor finishing. We need a real overhaul of this team if we are to avoid another season like this and that may include the manager, as the lack of imagination and purpose is severely lacking in all departments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) Fancy football is all very well but our problem like most seasons recently is lack of goals. If we play rubbish but score goals I would feel happier. You can not win games unless you score goals, simple as that. Edited May 9, 2015 by Rubecula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Honestly don't think the width hurt is today...we created 22 chances. What cost us was inability to finish. Some of the efforts were lacking in intent...look at Barkley's chance. We need to discover a way to score goals. MikeO and rubecula 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Just had a look at the goal scorers chart and find our highest placing is Lukaku at 23rd place....one above Jelavic. Next us Mirralas at 29 Naismith cones in at 36 That's really not good enough for a team with top six aspirations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Just had a look at the goal scorers chart and find our highest placing is Lukaku at 23rd place....one above Jelavic. Next us Mirralas at 29 Naismith cones in at 36 That's really not good enough for a team with top six aspirations. Where does Kone feature? Actually, never mind . I thought it was very telling that we were chasing a goal yesterday and he didn't even get a sniff of coming on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Kone is listed as MIA. Yesterday was a wierd game. We made enough chances but just couldn't put one away. McCarthys effort typified the afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Kone is listed as MIA. Yesterday was a wierd game. We made enough chances but just couldn't put one away. McCarthys effort typified the afternoon. I thought Osman's did as well - fell to him on the edge of the box and for once he actually hit the ball well, but he smashed it straight at the keeper who didn't even attempt to make the save and would've had no chance if he'd hit it just a little bit to either side of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) My Sunday paper has an 'after match quote' from Martinez - 'But the technical aspect of the performance was very, very good'. Er, we lost 2 - 0 at home to a struggling side. There are plenty of relegated sides who were capable of good technical performances but went down because they didn't score enough goals. Edited May 10, 2015 by johnh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3077352/Body-missing-five-year-old-brother-man-threw-baby-dumpster-Nebraska-river.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490 He most definitely has got it wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 The headlime to that link is.. Body of missing five-year-old brother of man 'who threw baby in dumpster' is found in Nebraska river Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 The headlime to that link is.. Body of missing five-year-old brother of man 'who threw baby in dumpster' is found in Nebraska river If Martinez did that then I think even his most loyal supporter will say he got it wrong. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 The headlime to that link is.. Body of missing five-year-old brother of man 'who threw baby in dumpster' is found in Nebraska river Did you not read the name of the guy who did it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Did you not read the name of the guy who did it? I get it now. I just assumed you'd posted the wrong link so never read on. Dozy fucker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) He certainly gets around, I watched the breakfast club last night and he was playing the janitor Edited May 16, 2015 by Chach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacs Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Yes he has. In a thread earlier in the season (weak links, I think) I said that I thought our slow start might have been planned. In that RM was prepared for the demands of Europe and was planning on building into the season with a strong finish. I was completely wrong he had no idea. Team selections the last few weeks have proved that. The season was gone, there were no relegation worries and nothing to play for. He could have played more of the youngsters and heaven forbid a team with balance, and players playing in their correct positions. The fact the team put a decent run together and got out of trouble should not take the focus away from a poor season. I believe we are a better team than this season shows and the manager has to take responsibility for them under performing. Roll on next season and a fresh start. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacs Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 On the plus side the dockers jus beat the Bulldogs at least one of my teams is having a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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