c1982 Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 We're not the first team and won't be the last to have struggled to cope with the demands of Europa and league progression. No excuses next season - think we'll be top 7 again and a proper cup run would be lovely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Think you're getting "mark my words & relegation" in the same sentence mixed up with Paddock. If you can find a post of mine saying that fair do'a but don't remember posting it. Remember paddock doing so though. I couldn't care less in McCarthy got MOTM. Thirty seconds research. We need a manager who will go long and let the players feed off scraps we are not good enough to carve open chances. We need to play all the tricks in the book now. Martinez just won't do it. He'll fucking take us down mark my words. Deacs and Hoof_It_Nev 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) Thirty seconds research. Well done. Have a sticker Edited April 26, 2015 by MC11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Well done. Have a sticker Your humility is so refreshing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 You're right haf, I was wrong. He's turned it around and the players have responded as well. Maybe it really was Europa. I'm so happy we're playing better and look forward to a nice season next year. I really hope we can win one of the cups next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 I thought he would get us relegated I fully admit it, I was wrong and I'm absolutely thrilled well more relieved I suppose that I was wrong. I'm still not sold on him I think we'll be in for another season of mediocrity and disappointment next season I'm convinced he is wrong for us. That being said I hope I'm wrong on that as well and he smashes top 4 next season I really do. I just don't get all this ego shit about not wanting to be wrong it's pathetic. I say it how I see it if it ultimately turns out wrong big deal. It must be exhausting for all these people who think they're right all the time. Oh to be perfect eh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 Everton is an emotive topic - we love the club and want the best for it, we have informed opinions sometimes they are wrong just like the chairman, ceo, manager and players, but we aren't sat at the top table earning a few bob off the club, many actually put more money into the club than our esteemed chairman. On to martinez.... he gives people the impression that he will not budge and everything is ok - even when you know that can't be the case. He doesn't press panic buttons, he will have learned so much this season:- Pre season - fail to prepare, prepare to fail pass pass pass - other teams press and force errors europa - like it or not it has a clear impact on prem perfromances, you need 24 first team quality players Ego's - do not tolerate players getting above their stations, do not be soft I think we may have a good season 2015/2016 Hoof_It_Nev 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 I can see us having a good season too. Hopefully that will mean being in the top 6 again. However, if there's even the slightest inkling we are going the same way as this season the board needs to act. One season is forgivable but when it becomes a recurrence we're are only heading one way and the good players will leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 I can see us having a good season too. Hopefully that will mean being in the top 6 again. However, if there's even the slightest inkling we are going the same way as this season the board needs to act. One season is forgivable but when it becomes a recurrence we're are only heading one way and the good players will leave. If you think we're going to have a good season, why do you want him gone? Genuine question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 If you think we're going to have a good season, why do you want him gone? Genuine question. Because he's not going to get sacked is he? and if we're excluding Europa league next season he's going to have a fitter squad and a smaller workload. There should be no excuses so yes I can "see" us doing well. Does that mean I think he's the right man to take us to the next level? No. Would I trust him with another European campaign on top? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 I see a different Everton playing right now compared to the shite over the fall/winter. I think RM has changed, even if there isn't any public acknowledgement. Yesterday the NBCSN crew/pundits did a "Pundits at the Pub" and eluded that Jags had a big influence on Martinez on changing the tactics/strategy. How truthful this is I have no idea but it makes sense to me given their recent form. Although yesterday wasn't perfect, they were far and above the most successful team in BPL history, and their manager even admitted it. Let's enjoy this moment, hope for 4 more wins to move us up even further. Never saw this coming. COYB's!!! Hafnia and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvertonianFL Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 I'm on the fence here...Martinezz had a rough second season in charge. I don;t like managers who blatantly refuse to change tactics/strategy when it's not working. Europa League definitely affected the team's ability to win Premier League games this season. No doubt about it. Hopefully, we at least made some money off being in Europe this season, so we can turn around and spend it on some quality players to move us back into Top 6 next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 I'm on the fence here...Martinezz had a rough second season in charge. I don;t like managers who blatantly refuse to change tactics/strategy when it's not working. Europa League definitely affected the team's ability to win Premier League games this season. No doubt about it. Hopefully, we at least made some money off being in Europe this season, so we can turn around and spend it on some quality players to move us back into Top 6 next season. Peanuts compared to League position prize money/TV revenue, whatever we made will make very little difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 Watching us it looks more like players are growing in confidence than a system change. It's not like we've started throwing long balls up the pitch. The change in intensity is more due to the fact that the players have realised they can just sit on last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 Watching us it looks more like players are growing in confidence than a system change. It's not like we've started throwing long balls up the pitch. The change in intensity is more due to the fact that the players have realised they can just sit on last season. Remember when Martinez persisted throwing wide players right up the field? For the majority of the season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 I thought he would get us relegated I fully admit it, I was wrong and I'm absolutely thrilled well more relieved I suppose that I was wrong. I'm still not sold on him I think we'll be in for another season of mediocrity and disappointment next season I'm convinced he is wrong for us. That being said I hope I'm wrong on that as well and he smashes top 4 next season I really do. I just don't get all this ego shit about not wanting to be wrong it's pathetic. I say it how I see it if it ultimately turns out wrong big deal. It must be exhausting for all these people who think they're right all the time. Oh to be perfect eh We learn far more from being wrong than from being right - which makes me a real expert! Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Remember when Martinez persisted throwing wide players right up the field? For the majority of the season? Yes and he seems to be still doing it now, just that he also has Ossie and Pienaar back in and around the squad so has more options. He has also taken Lennon on loan who gets right up the pitch but also has the mobility and pace to get back. Not a system change but having the right people available. There is no need to sacrifice Barkley on the wing now. Matt and Deacs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Im still not convinced we have a plan B united attacked us, right up Roberto's street, we win fantastic I loved it but Burnley we only just best them and played poor, WBA, palace at home hull etc we have yet to comfortably beat a team that does not come on to us I hope im wrong but I don't think we are there yet and as has been said before the season did not start in April even if we win all our remaining games its been a poor season. and I think its easier to play with no pressure and nothing to play for and may account for our change of fortunes. I loved beating united though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 No pressure?! We were in a relegation fight. We won key games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 No pressure?! We were in a relegation fight. We won key games. As I said in my mystic meg bit 6 weeks ago we would not go down we had more than at least 6 other teams it was never a Wimbledon situation the relegation fight never materialised im still not convinced we can play teams who don't attack us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 As I said in my mystic meg bit 6 weeks ago we would not go down we had more than at least 6 other teams it was never a Wimbledon situation the relegation fight never materialised im still not convinced we can play teams who don't attack us I think this is a fair point to be honest. We do struggle to break sides down who let us have the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Im still not convinced we have a plan B united attacked us, right up Roberto's street, we win fantastic I loved it but Burnley we only just best them and played poor, WBA, palace at home hull etc we have yet to comfortably beat a team that does not come on to us I hope im wrong but I don't think we are there yet and as has been said before the season did not start in April even if we win all our remaining games its been a poor season. and I think its easier to play with no pressure and nothing to play for and may account for our change of fortunes. I loved beating united though. Thats been the opposite of "Robertos Street". His aim is to dictate the game by controlling the ball, the complete opposite of how we played and exactly what United did. The encouraging part, as I've debated before with Chach, is that he learnt. He has Plan B; if the other team want to play the tippy-tappy possession shite, let them, we'll catch them on the counter. Ok, its someone elses Plan B, but he took it and applied it. I agree, he struggles against teams who don't want to attack, but I there are 2 major factors here. 1 - He doesn't have that quick passing creative midfielder 2 - the best players to play this role have been injured half the season and are getting on (Pienaar and Ossie). IF, and it's a big if, he gets his transfer priorities right in the summer and gets a Mata / Silva / Eriksen kind of player, I think we will see a much more exciting and fruitful version of the tippy tappy that I hate so much, which would address the issue of "park the bus" teams I know people are ready to write him off after a woeful 2/3rds of the season, but fact is in his first season he did very well and we've finally found a balance again winning 5 out of 6. He is capable of taking us to the next level, I'm convinced of it. However, he needs to continue adapting, stop being so bloody stubborn and find a balance between possession / pressurizing / counter attack football to remain unpredictable and ahead of the curve so the opposition doesn't know what to expect. He also, as mentioned, needs to bring in the right players. To find the balance he needs to look at himself in the mirror first and foremost, and ask himself if his adamant belief in his philosophy involves evolution. If the answer is no, I want him gone in the summer. No evolution will kill us. I don't think he is that blinded by his own arrogance enough to not change. It would be nice if it didn't take 2 months to realize something isn't going right, but the fact he did is positive. He is still a young manager. 2nd season blues was always on the cards, especially as he prepared poorly in preseason (I underestimated how big an impact that would have too) and changed far too much too soon in terms of our play. There are a lot of positives to take out of this season. If we finish 8th, I would say thats a decent season based on the end result alone, but also because we've also refined a new approach to play (hard way to learn, but seems to have been learnt), European football experience, certain players have developed quite well too. I said 8th at the beginning of the season, I didn't expect any silverware. I think for a second season, thats not bad (certainly not great). Next season is the season to judge him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 great points matt, one other thing i would like to see is the changing of formations. in his first season we saw 352, 4231, 433, and 442 formations. some worked some didn't but agaisnt arsenal it was one of the main reasons we did a 1-1 and 3-0. he needs to experiment more just like rodgers does with liverpool. try a 343 as well maybe. we have some great players and unpredictability could be yet another factor that benefits us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I can agree with a lot of the above from Matt/Mark but I fear with the good finish nothing will change for next year already people are forgetting or choosing to ignore the first 6 months of the PL and I think some of the personal who have caused most of our problems I don't need to name them will still be hear next season because of a good end to the season I don't think we need to spend 25/40mil on a mata or the others mentioned 10mil on shelvey would make a big difference to us and I still think Robertos plan A only works when a team comes on to us like united and the Europa league there is not a plan B if teams don't attack us we are clueless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I can agree with a lot of the above from Matt/Mark but I fear with the good finish nothing will change for next year already people are forgetting or choosing to ignore the first 6 months of the PL and I think some of the personal who have caused most of our problems I don't need to name them will still be hear next season because of a good end to the season I don't think we need to spend 25/40mil on a mata or the others mentioned 10mil on shelvey would make a big difference to us and I still think Robertos plan A only works when a team comes on to us like united and the Europa league there is not a plan B if teams don't attack us we are clueless. Not ignoring or forgetting them at all. I could say some are forgetting the 1st season in charge. Roberto still has, despite a poor season, a 46% win rate at Everton. I think that will improve next season (dependent on previous points mentioned) I wouldn't go near Shelvey, regardless of his past. He is too hot and cold and a liability in the centre of midfield. I want someone sitting behind the striker, ready to take the ball of Barry (who I have heavily criticized this season after championing him after last seasons success) and McCarthy, to link up play to the striker, so the striker can concentrate on scoring goals. I'm being pedantic here, but its not that we're clueless; we're toothless and devoid of imagination and pace to open up teams. The plan is there, we've just not got the tools to implement it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) we are mostly saying the same things in different ways the reason I said shelvey as an example he can pick a forward pass, he can split a defence, and he can score something we haven't got and I am being realistic about what we can afford. being honest we need a keeper a CB and a striker as well as midfield general as a minimum for next season. Edited April 29, 2015 by seve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 we are mostly saying the same things in different ways the reason I said shelvey as an example he can pick a forward pass, he can split a defence, and he can score something we haven't got and I am being realistic about what we can afford. being honest we need a keeper a CB and a striker as well as midfield general as a minimum for next season. Not sure why you keep bringing up Shelvey; we've not been linked with him as far as I've seen and there's been no indication that Swansea want rid or he wants away. So how do you know we could afford him when there's no figure been mentioned (unless I've missed it). Also he's a twat & a liability. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30620866 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Not sure why you keep bringing up Shelvey; we've not been linked with him as far as I've seen and there's been no indication that Swansea want rid or he wants away. So how do you know we could afford him when there's no figure been mentioned (unless I've missed it). Also he's a twat & a liability. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30620866 True, everywhere, but I understand Crustys point better now with the "diffence splitting passes". Shelveys is more of a deep lying play maker though, I want someone behind the striker. edit: I also conceded a long time ago that maybe MC is right, Barkley could do that same job like Shelvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 True, everywhere, but I understand Crustys point better now with the "diffence splitting passes". Shelveys is more of a deep lying play maker though, I want someone behind the striker. edit: I also conceded a long time ago that maybe MC is right, Barkley could do that same job like Shelvey Both Barkleys goals have come from him in a deeper role. I know he's only scored two but I think he's a much much better player when he can see more in front of him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Both Barkleys goals have come from him in a deeper role. I know he's only scored two but I think he's a much much better player when he can see more in front of him Agreed for a different reason - when he's running, he doesn't have to think which is his biggest downfall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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