Matt Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 Noticed on my visit to the uk how many cars have the EU on the registration plates. I wonder who has to pay for replacing the 40m reg plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/07/brexiteers-only-have-themselves-blame-backlash-over-no-deal-planning MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Matt said: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/07/brexiteers-only-have-themselves-blame-backlash-over-no-deal-planning Don’t need to convince me how true that article is Matt it just amazes me how many can’t see it. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Palfy said: Don’t need to convince me how true that article is Matt it just amazes me how many can’t see it. It’s not really a matter of convincing, it’s just simple fact and the most basic simple fact before the vote was even announced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Matt said: It’s not really a matter of convincing, it’s just simple fact and the most basic simple fact before the vote was even announced. Trying to put into words what a stupid, moronic, lose/lose situation we're now in but I don't have them. The country's been screwed by a few "high profile" politicians trying to further their career while being sure they'd lose the vote so wouldn't have to deal with the consequences; when they won they all jumped ship. We are a laughing stock; I have more optimism about Everton than I about the UK, and that's bad. Matt and holystove 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 Most importantly people need to get out of the mindset of this MP. I'm sure some on here believe no-deal will be bzsically status quo as well.. it will not. Stockpiling food, medicine and using army to keep the peace, are not project fear 2.0. They are policy designed by pro-brexit ministers in the UK government. Wake up. Chach and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 It does show how pathetic this whole situation is, from both sides. Even the contemplation that the things being prepared for shows how ridiculous both the EU and UK govt are. UK MPs here would be prepared to risk the people they are there to represent and the EU bureaucrats are prepared to allow this to happen to a fellow European country where they have millions of their own citizens residing. I would love to know how many times these people actually sit down to discuss Brexit. I get the impression that bith sodes have civil servants squirrelling away to produce a report/offer before it gets sent to the other side who do the same like they are opponents and not friends seeking a new agreement. Both sides are guilty of using the media to issue their threats which is again pathetic. They should be sat around a table every day until it has been resolved, or a stalemate reached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 We got our permits today! holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Bailey said: It does show how pathetic this whole situation is, from both sides. Even the contemplation that the things being prepared for shows how ridiculous both the EU and UK govt are. UK MPs here would be prepared to risk the people they are there to represent and the EU bureaucrats are prepared to allow this to happen to a fellow European country where they have millions of their own citizens residing. I would love to know how many times these people actually sit down to discuss Brexit. I get the impression that bith sodes have civil servants squirrelling away to produce a report/offer before it gets sent to the other side who do the same like they are opponents and not friends seeking a new agreement. Both sides are guilty of using the media to issue their threats which is again pathetic. They should be sat around a table every day until it has been resolved, or a stalemate reached. This is misunderstanding no-deal, Bailey. "why would the EU not allow planes to fly?" Because if the UK drops out with no-deal, UK airtravel will no longer be certified via EU agency ( there is no UK aviation agency) so no certification. Which means no insurance company will issue insurance, which means no flights... Where is the EU bureaucrat in this? "why would the EU not deliver medicine?" "why would the EU not deliver food?" Because if the UK drops out with no-deal, there will no longer be fictionless trade. Which means delays at the borders and fresh food will perish on the roads. Roads will literally get clogged due to no-deal, not because something the EU does. Where is the EU bureaucrat in this? etc etc. It might seem common sense to let this all continue, but it is no-deal-brexit that is standing in the way of this, not any EU politician. I don't think we'll get to the stage of no-deal because of the armageddon it would bring but first MPs need to be honest about this. I'm still counting on a transition period during which the UK can set up all its own agencies, streamline its border procedures, do an FTA with the EU to keep as much of current trade flowing as possible post-transtion, create a lasting solution for ROI-NI, etc.. so it can leave the EU in an orderly way. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 3 hours ago, Bailey said: like they are opponents and not friends Correct, that is the new relationship. Trade deals are when the big one screws the little one, and the little one has to like it or fuck off. Bailey and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 hour ago, holystove said: This is misunderstanding no-deal, Bailey. "why would the EU not allow planes to fly?" Because if the UK drops out with no-deal, UK airtravel will no longer be certified via EU agency ( there is no UK aviation agency) so no certification. Which means no insurance company will issue insurance, which means no flights... Where is the EU bureaucrat in this? "why would the EU not deliver medicine?" "why would the EU not deliver food?" Because if the UK drops out with no-deal, there will no longer be fictionless trade. Which means delays at the borders and fresh food will perish on the roads. Roads will literally get clogged due to no-deal, not because something the EU does. Where is the EU bureaucrat in this? etc etc. It might seem common sense to let this all continue, but it is no-deal-brexit that is standing in the way of this, not any EU politician. I don't think we'll get to the stage of no-deal because of the armageddon it would bring but first MPs need to be honest about this. I'm still counting on a transition period during which the UK can set up all its own agencies, streamline its border procedures, do an FTA with the EU to keep as much of current trade flowing as possible post-transtion, create a lasting solution for ROI-NI, etc.. so it can leave the EU in an orderly way. I have posted this before. So how are Spain going to react to no holidaymakers/tourists arriving next year? Over 15m from the UK this year. Holystove, you really need to take account of the real world. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, johnh said: I have posted this before. So how are Spain going to react to no holidaymakers/tourists arriving next year? Over 15m from the UK this year. Holystove, you really need to take account of the real world. People will still travel, they’ll just have a harder time getting there. Edit: actually nothing will change because the UK isn’t part of Schengen anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 14 hours ago, MikeO said: Trying to put into words what a stupid, moronic, lose/lose situation we're now in but I don't have them. The country's been screwed by a few "high profile" politicians trying to further their career while being sure they'd lose the vote so wouldn't have to deal with the consequences; when they won they all jumped ship. We are a laughing stock; I have more optimism about Everton than I about the UK, and that's bad. I have been reading some of the posts in this vein. I can't decide if its false modesty, pride or ignorance but a key reason for the stupid, moronic, lose/lose situation we are now in is that 'remoaners' have obstructed Brexit from the word go. Not mention by any of the remainers. Leavers complain about Barnier being intransigent and bullying but he comes a poor second to remainers. The whole Brexit negotiations have been taken over by remainers but Barnier is going to overplay his hand and a 'walk-away' outcome is on the cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Matt said: People will still travel, they’ll just have a harder time getting there. Doh! So they will go somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, johnh said: Doh! So they will go somewhere else. I edited since, there’ll be zero difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 26 minutes ago, johnh said: Doh! So they will go somewhere else. Also, Spain will still be hot and cheap, so I doubt anyone would’ve changed their minds anyway. The only real issue might be they can’t afford to go anymore. 26 minutes ago, johnh said: I have been reading some of the posts in this vein. I can't decide if its false modesty, pride or ignorance but a key reason for the stupid, moronic, lose/lose situation we are now in is that 'remoaners' have obstructed Brexit from the word go. Not mention by any of the remainers. Leavers complain about Barnier being intransigent and bullying but he comes a poor second to remainers. The whole Brexit negotiations have been taken over by remainers but Barnier is going to overplay his hand and a 'walk-away' outcome is on the cards. Quite bitter that John. The Brexiteers have left the sinking ship they put a hole in, the only people left are Remain conscripts who have “no” choice. Who should be running the deals if not those who are still in their jobs? This mess is not down to either remain or leave, it’s down to an incompetent government and a mislead population. That’s why we’re in this lose lose situation, and it was always going to be like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 hour ago, johnh said: I have posted this before. So how are Spain going to react to no holidaymakers/tourists arriving next year? Over 15m from the UK this year. Holystove, you really need to take account of the real world. First of all, 15m is nothing compared to tourists from EU27. No EU member state will begin to threaten the integrity of EU structure to placate a departing member.. especially in the all important field of tourism Secondly, you are right it will become more expensive if Spain demands visas etc. but that won't put them at a disadvantage to other warm weather countries. Brits will still come, just pay more. Finally, Brexit is the definition of putting idealogy before anything else, don't be surprised to find some EU member states might do the same. I think Spain will take Gibraltar instead of 15m Brits in a heartbeat. (which they might). Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 hour ago, johnh said: I have been reading some of the posts in this vein. I can't decide if its false modesty, pride or ignorance but a key reason for the stupid, moronic, lose/lose situation we are now in is that 'remoaners' have obstructed Brexit from the word go. Not mention by any of the remainers. Leavers complain about Barnier being intransigent and bullying but he comes a poor second to remainers. The whole Brexit negotiations have been taken over by remainers but Barnier is going to overplay his hand and a 'walk-away' outcome is on the cards. This critique would only be credible if there was some plan for Brexit that leavers came up with and that is being blocked by 'remoaners'. MikeO, Chach and Matt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 5 hours ago, holystove said: Finally, Brexit is the definition of putting idealogy before anything else I have no problem with anyone who voted ideologically, a lot of people on both sides did so including myself (unless their ideology was based in racism or xenophobia). When I used the words "stupid, moronic, lose/lose situation" I was very clearly talking about the situation we are currently in, the words weren't aimed at any individual who voted out so if anyone took them that way I apologise; this place has had about the most reasonable discussion on the subject anywhere as far as I can tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 7 hours ago, Matt said: We got our permits today! Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 6 hours ago, holystove said: This is misunderstanding no-deal, Bailey. "why would the EU not allow planes to fly?" Because if the UK drops out with no-deal, UK airtravel will no longer be certified via EU agency ( there is no UK aviation agency) so no certification. Which means no insurance company will issue insurance, which means no flights... Where is the EU bureaucrat in this? "why would the EU not deliver medicine?" "why would the EU not deliver food?" Because if the UK drops out with no-deal, there will no longer be fictionless trade. Which means delays at the borders and fresh food will perish on the roads. Roads will literally get clogged due to no-deal, not because something the EU does. Where is the EU bureaucrat in this? etc etc. It might seem common sense to let this all continue, but it is no-deal-brexit that is standing in the way of this, not any EU politician. I don't think we'll get to the stage of no-deal because of the armageddon it would bring but first MPs need to be honest about this. I'm still counting on a transition period during which the UK can set up all its own agencies, streamline its border procedures, do an FTA with the EU to keep as much of current trade flowing as possible post-transtion, create a lasting solution for ROI-NI, etc.. so it can leave the EU in an orderly way. Dont get me wrong, I understand it, I know its difficult and there are lots of hurdles. The EU bureaucrat is stopping the UK enjoying the same benefits outside of the EU despite having the same regulation (in travel). I get the whole cake and eat it scenario comes into play but its not like the UK becomes a 3rd world country overnight. It mutually beneficial areas, such as travel, it makes more sense to agree to similar regulations as the ones we have now. Whether that is the EU or us I dont know but as far as I see, there is little stopping an agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 5 hours ago, johnh said: I have posted this before. So how are Spain going to react to no holidaymakers/tourists arriving next year? Over 15m from the UK this year. Holystove, you really need to take account of the real world. Thing is John Germany will drive this and they don’t care that Spain and Portugal rely on tourism, ask the Greeks they ruined their economy and a lot of tourists kept away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 47 minutes ago, Bailey said: Dont get me wrong, I understand it, I know its difficult and there are lots of hurdles. The EU bureaucrat is stopping the UK enjoying the same benefits outside of the EU despite having the same regulation (in travel). I get the whole cake and eat it scenario comes into play but its not like the UK becomes a 3rd world country overnight. It mutually beneficial areas, such as travel, it makes more sense to agree to similar regulations as the ones we have now. Whether that is the EU or us I dont know but as far as I see, there is little stopping an agreement. Well that is why the EU has agreed a transition period to sort most of that. The scenario we are talking about now is no-deal, which means no transition. In order to avoid no-deal only 3 things are necessary: 1/ financial settlement (UK accepts liabilities it signed up to as a member). 2/ agreement on rights of EU citizens in UK and UK migrants in EU27. 3/ Solution on the Irish border. All this future relationship stuff (customs union, single market, FTA in goods, ECJ, ...) is irrelevant to an orderly exit right now because it will only come into effect after the transition period. However as the UK doesnt want to accept the EU27 proposal for the Irish backstop and they think the financial settlement is their best card, they want to decide the future relationship now. If the UK would just sign the Withdrawal Treaty as it is written now, instead of in March 2019, there would be a lot less drama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 5 hours ago, johnh said: I have been reading some of the posts in this vein. I can't decide if its false modesty, pride or ignorance but a key reason for the stupid, moronic, lose/lose situation we are now in is that 'remoaners' have obstructed Brexit from the word go. Not mention by any of the remainers. Leavers complain about Barnier being intransigent and bullying but he comes a poor second to remainers. The whole Brexit negotiations have been taken over by remainers but Barnier is going to overplay his hand and a 'walk-away' outcome is on the cards. In all fairness to you John your are a true Brexiteer who still believes in leaving the EU at any cost, most people who post on this topic are remainers who still think there’s still a fight to have on how we leave and if we leave. What ive noticed on this forum and nationally is that the closer we get to March 19 the less you hear Brexiteers complain about the remainers still fighting against the decision, it is my belief that they now realise that this is not the Brexit that they were sold by Jonnston, and they are as worried about the future as remainers are and no longer believe in Brexit as a viable future or the future they were promised, they are not as vocal as remainers because they know that they can’t defend the indefensible, and I firmly believe a lot of Brexiteers given a 2nd opportunity would abstain or vote remain based on what we know to date what Brexit is going to look like in reality rather than in Boris’s fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 42 minutes ago, Palfy said: Thing is John Germany will drive this and they don’t care that Spain and Portugal rely on tourism, ask the Greeks they ruined their economy and a lot of tourists kept away. As you are a "remainer" this post is exactly why I (and many more on the continent) were backing brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 22 minutes ago, holystove said: As you are a "remainer" this post is exactly why I (and many more on the continent) were backing brexit. You should've been a more vocal group; if a load of Europeans had been seen to say, "....bugger off Britain we'll be better off without your whiny need not to fully fit in..." the vote would've been a resounding success for remain because the tabloids would have got right behind the idea of staying to piss off Johnny Foreigner. I laugh but I really think it would've been that way. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 36 minutes ago, holystove said: As you are a "remainer" this post is exactly why I (and many more on the continent) were backing brexit. Don’t buy that for one bit holy the French are more nationalistic than most in EU but when they had the opportunity to get a vote on staying or leaving they turned it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Palfy said: Don’t buy that for one bit holy the French are more nationalistic than most in EU but when they had the opportunity to get a vote on staying or leaving they turned it down. he's belgian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 3 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: he's belgian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 1, 2018 Report Share Posted August 1, 2018 Pretty good summary, apart from a mistake regarding the immigration part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.