West Ham (Away) Sun 3rd April

[badaids]

If we play like that against Burnley and not commit any errors we'll get a result of some kind.

Problem is that Dyche and his team are street fighters and will hit every button to smash our fragile players and invite them to screw up, and he'll make sure his players know that, and they can do us.  

[Palfy]

Had to record it family event took president, just finished watching, possibly the best I’ve seen us play away from home for a while, unlucky not to get more out of the game. Some poor finishing from Richarlison and DCL and sloppy control from Iwobi which led to their second contributed to our down fall, Iwobi loses the ball in their half and that catches our defence all over the place, Keane is in the middle Kenny is right of him 5-6 yards in front of him completely out the game when the ball goes to Antonio, Kenny should be looking at Keane and keeping a line, if he does that there’s a chance he can hold Antonio up, Mykolenko is left of Keane but a yard behind him again not maintaining the line, which allows Antonio to remain on side when he received the ball. I have a massive problem with defenders who lose focus and shape when the midfielders have the ball and they aren’t set and ready when it breaks down, concentration needs switched on for the whole of the game. 

[Romey 1878]

We do like to beat ourselves, don't we?

[MikeO]

28 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Had to record it family event took president...

Or maybe precedent, unless your family have kidnapped Mr Biden

[Palfy]

19 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Or maybe precedent, unless your family have kidnapped Mr Biden

that’s the one

[Bailey]

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

Had to record it family event took president, just finished watching, possibly the best I’ve seen us play away from home for a while, unlucky not to get more out of the game. Some poor finishing from Richarlison and DCL and sloppy control from Iwobi which led to their second contributed to our down fall, Iwobi loses the ball in their half and that catches our defence all over the place, Keane is in the middle Kenny is right of him 5-6 yards in front of him completely out the game when the ball goes to Antonio, Kenny should be looking at Keane and keeping a line, if he does that there’s a chance he can hold Antonio up, Mykolenko is left of Keane but a yard behind him again not maintaining the line, which allows Antonio to remain on side when he received the ball. I have a massive problem with defenders who lose focus and shape when the midfielders have the ball and they aren’t set and ready when it breaks down, concentration needs switched on for the whole of the game. 

I have sympathy for Kenny because no-one would expect Iwobi to lose the ball in that position. If it was close, then maybe, but if you cant get into advanced positions when you have good control of the football, then you arent ever going to get into good, advanced positions. He did plenty wrong for the rest of the game though.

On the otherside, I don't think there is any need for Mykolenko to be deeper than the others. He just switches off for a second and thats enough. Again though, whilst he could have played Antonio offside, Iwobi should never lose the ball in that position in the way he does. 

[Palfy]

4 hours ago, Palfy said:

Had to record it family event took president, just finished watching, possibly the best I’ve seen us play away from home for a while, unlucky not to get more out of the game. Some poor finishing from Richarlison and DCL and sloppy control from Iwobi which led to their second contributed to our down fall, Iwobi loses the ball in their half and that catches our defence all over the place, Keane is in the middle Kenny is right of him 5-6 yards in front of him completely out the game when the ball goes to Antonio, Kenny should be looking at Keane and keeping a line, if he does that there’s a chance he can hold Antonio up, Mykolenko is left of Keane but a yard behind him again not maintaining the line, which allows Antonio to remain on side when he received the ball. I have a massive problem with defenders who lose focus and shape when the midfielders have the ball and they aren’t set and ready when it breaks down, concentration needs switched on for the whole of the game. 

Godfrey not Keane. 

[Hafnia]

 

[Wiggytop]

Good post above, and shows just how woeful it was to play it to Iwobi, not only is he surrounded by West Ham players, he has his back to goal, not expecting  Richy is clearly looking for the pass to him.

[seve]

No one was going to get to the ball before him, all he had to do was put his foot on it and pass it back to Kenny, he is a premier league footballer, not a ten year old on the park, stop making excuses for the bloke, his fault 100%.

He has been a complete disaster since he has been here, and a couple of games where he actually turned up, does not wash it with me, He is a big part of why we are in this position, and the likes of Kean getting sent off, and Kenny, why does he get a game, If people are trying not put our players down in public, i get that and i defend them all day long to outsiders. But this is our site, our team, and we can say it, as we see it. 

Of course the main reason we are in this problem, is the total ineptitude of the people who run the club, if anyone is actually running it. I think BK will get his wish, and sack Lampard, and bring back that clown RM.

I feel for Frank, no amount of training can legislate for the mistakes this shower are making every match, but i still don't understand how Kenny gets in the side ahead of Patterson. (rant over)

[barryj]

Iwobi had a good game up to that absolute clanger! To try and really blame anyone else for their second goal is ludicrous. He’s a professional footballer who could control a slow 6 years pass to his feet. For me this is why I’ve never warmed to him he always has a shocker in his locker that overshadows all the good things he does. Yesterday it cost us badly. We had just got back into the game and we’re in the ascendancy.

[Hafnia]

13 minutes ago, barryj said:

Iwobi had a good game up to that absolute clanger! To try and really blame anyone else for their second goal is ludicrous. He’s a professional footballer who could control a slow 6 years pass to his feet. For me this is why I’ve never warmed to him he always has a shocker in his locker that overshadows all the good things he does. Yesterday it cost us badly. We had just got back into the game and we’re in the ascendancy.

Iwobi should have controlled the ball absolutely no doubt - ultimately its his fault.  I think fans like myself are eager to defend him because he should plenty of heart in that game and cruel things like that can happen to pros - see gerrard vs chelsea.

This is the beauty of "putting in a shift" - fans will forgive mistakes or moments of lack of quality.  Too many of our players don't seem to feel this and instead they hide cos they dont wanna be the person who messes up..... multiply that by 5 or 6 and you are looking at a relegated side.  Iwobi got my man of the match because his attitude was an example.

On to Keane - he's thick.    Look at what he actually did - he did a needless mini dribble as last man (why?) and mykolenko likely stayed deep to cover and played them onside.  Then he suddenly got a nose bleed and panicked, had absolutely no awareness to see Richarlison in acres and just "hot potatoed" it to Iwobi who rightly or wrongly would not have been expecting that ball.  Anyone who has played the game has had them passed at them and its a "yeah thanks mate".

 

[Romey 1878]

Apparently Iwobi gestures to Keane that he wants the pass, but I don't know if that's true as I can't bring myself to watch any of yesterday back again.

[barryj]

11 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Iwobi should have controlled the ball absolutely no doubt - ultimately its his fault.  I think fans like myself are eager to defend him because he should plenty of heart in that game and cruel things like that can happen to pros - see gerrard vs chelsea.

This is the beauty of "putting in a shift" - fans will forgive mistakes or moments of lack of quality.  Too many of our players don't seem to feel this and instead they hide cos they dont wanna be the person who messes up..... multiply that by 5 or 6 and you are looking at a relegated side.  Iwobi got my man of the match because his attitude was an example.

On to Keane - he's thick.    Look at what he actually did - he did a needless mini dribble as last man (why?) and mykolenko likely stayed deep to cover and played them onside.  Then he suddenly got a nose bleed and panicked, had absolutely no awareness to see Richarlison in acres and just "hot potatoed" it to Iwobi who rightly or wrongly would not have been expecting that ball.  Anyone who has played the game has had them passed at them and its a "yeah thanks mate".

 

I agree there were better options prior both Richie and Gray but ultimately he was in more than enough space to control the ball and it’s that lapse in concentration I see from him regularly that costs the team and him personally. Had he have controlled it no one would be talking about the options as I’m sure if we go through the match minute by minute there would be loads of examples from all our players of not taking the ‘best’ option. On a positive note he has been much better of late in his effort and output and it was him who put Richie through on both occasions in the first half. He would have been my MOTM if it wasn’t for that mistake that ultimately cost us a point. 

Im not even going to start on Keane as I’ve not enough time! 

[barryj]

5 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Apparently Iwobi gestures to Keane that he wants the pass, but I don't know if that's true as I can't bring myself to watch any of yesterday back again.

I can’t recall but he had the time and space so makes sense. He’s certainly controlled and played the ball in much tighter situations many more times in that game. It was complacency and lack of concentration. Individual errors are seriously costing us.

[Hafnia]

16 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Apparently Iwobi gestures to Keane that he wants the pass, but I don't know if that's true as I can't bring myself to watch any of yesterday back again.

he dropped deep but didn't see him ask for ball, Baz on toffeetv has the same take.  Basically poor decision making from Keane and how he didn't play the ball to richarlison is baffling.  Disclaimer: yes iwobi should control the ball if he controlled it then that goal doesn't happen (provided he actually manages to find a player to pass to from all the other statues)

 

Baz mentions that Effan Ekoku was giving commentary on the game he watched (probably something to do with Hinchcliffe being on Sky) - Ekoku was incredulous that DCL was having a strop on the bench as he said his effort was not there at all.

 

[Hafnia]

interesting take...

[Bailey]

 

If anyone wants the lowlights they are here.

This agenda against Keane is absolutely pathetic. In fact its madness and I question the sanity of some of you. If you want to moan about Keane all you need to do is look at the two fouls he gave away. That is his bread and butter and he fucks both challenges up royally. That is the stick you beat Keane with.

To try and say he should have passed to Richarlison (on his own) or he should have passed to Doucoure (very risky), or he shouldn't have dribbled 5 yards into space taking two players out of the game etc really is pathetic. He plays a perfectly good ball to Iwobi, who has not only space, but he is in a position where he has immediate support from Kenny, who in turn has Gray ahead of him to play an easy pass to. Whilst I would expect the cover to come over, the ball from Keane actually gives us a 3 v 2 in that right hand side if we can attack the space. Whether he sees that or whether it is blind luck is open to debate.

Either way there is absolutely nothing wrong with the dribble or ball from Keane and I can't believe it is even a talking point.

[barryj]

21 minutes ago, Bailey said:

 

If anyone wants the lowlights they are here.

This agenda against Keane is absolutely pathetic. In fact its madness and I question the sanity of some of you. If you want to moan about Keane all you need to do is look at the two fouls he gave away. That is his bread and butter and he fucks both challenges up royally. That is the stick you beat Keane with.

To try and say he should have passed to Richarlison (on his own) or he should have passed to Doucoure (very risky), or he shouldn't have dribbled 5 yards into space taking two players out of the game etc really is pathetic. He plays a perfectly good ball to Iwobi, who has not only space, but he is in a position where he has immediate support from Kenny, who in turn has Gray ahead of him to play an easy pass to. Whilst I would expect the cover to come over, the ball from Keane actually gives us a 3 v 2 in that right hand side if we can attack the space. Whether he sees that or whether it is blind luck is open to debate.

Either way there is absolutely nothing wrong with the dribble or ball from Keane and I can't believe it is even a talking point.

Keane might have not seen Richie as at one point Godfrey coming back could have obscured his view in that split second. 

 

He wasn’t under anywhere near the pressure some are alluding. It’s easy to put a still up that tries to prove the point but that there is the reality of when he received it. Keane did a lot wrong but that being called out as a terrible decision is clutching at straws.

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

 

If anyone wants the lowlights they are here.

This agenda against Keane is absolutely pathetic. In fact its madness and I question the sanity of some of you. If you want to moan about Keane all you need to do is look at the two fouls he gave away. That is his bread and butter and he fucks both challenges up royally. That is the stick you beat Keane with.

To try and say he should have passed to Richarlison (on his own) or he should have passed to Doucoure (very risky), or he shouldn't have dribbled 5 yards into space taking two players out of the game etc really is pathetic. He plays a perfectly good ball to Iwobi, who has not only space, but he is in a position where he has immediate support from Kenny, who in turn has Gray ahead of him to play an easy pass to. Whilst I would expect the cover to come over, the ball from Keane actually gives us a 3 v 2 in that right hand side if we can attack the space. Whether he sees that or whether it is blind luck is open to debate.

Either way there is absolutely nothing wrong with the dribble or ball from Keane and I can't believe it is even a talking point.

It’s not an agenda Bailey as he got man of the match vs Newcastle for playing well and I voted for him myself even though many went with iwobi. 

shit decision maker, shite pass selection and why the fuck did he dribble it to make a side ways pass? 
 

iwobi gets the blame for the goal so stop stressing. It’s just that maybe more people than you are comfortable with are wondering wtf he was doing not getting it to the man in space.  Andy gray pointed it out as have many. 
 

he was shite for the two fouls too, he’s unlucky is Michael Keane

[Palfy]

22 hours ago, Bailey said:

I have sympathy for Kenny because no-one would expect Iwobi to lose the ball in that position. If it was close, then maybe, but if you cant get into advanced positions when you have good control of the football, then you arent ever going to get into good, advanced positions. He did plenty wrong for the rest of the game though.

On the otherside, I don't think there is any need for Mykolenko to be deeper than the others. He just switches off for a second and thats enough. Again though, whilst he could have played Antonio offside, Iwobi should never lose the ball in that position in the way he does. 

You can over analyse everything that happens in a football game, but keeping your shape is so important especially so in defence, a midfielder loses the ball in the opposition’s half that shouldn’t automatically lead to a goal, a lot more mistakes came into play before the ball hit the back of the net.  This goal isn’t  solely one person’s fault. 

[Hafnia]

37 minutes ago, Palfy said:

You can over analyse everything that happens in a football game, but keeping your shape is so important especially so in defence, a midfielder loses the ball in the opposition’s half that shouldn’t automatically lead to a goal, a lot more mistakes came into play before the ball hit the back of the net.  This goal isn’t  solely one person’s fault. 

Exactly.   
 

as pointed out because the ball was going to iwobi - it meant Kenny going on his bike as the only route for iwobi was a return pass to Keane or pass to Kenny.  
 

awful.  But yes, iwobi should have controlled it .  Just so we make sure people know who was at fault.  

[barryj]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

You can over analyse everything that happens in a football game, but keeping your shape is so important especially so in defence, a midfielder loses the ball in the opposition’s half that shouldn’t automatically lead to a goal, a lot more mistakes came into play before the ball hit the back of the net.  This goal isn’t  solely one person’s fault. 

If he was tackled we would have been fine. It was just that the miss control compounded the problem as it acted as perfect pass to the midfielder who could put Antonio through with one touch. You can’t set up a defence on anticipation that your own player can’t control a simple ball. The fact one pass led to the striker having a shot on goal means it would automatically lead to a good chance. We were lucky it wasn’t one of the fastest strikers so the chance wasn’t even as good as it could have been. If it were say a Vardy he’d of used his pace to make it a better chance and would score that almost every time. 

[Hafnia]

7 hours ago, barryj said:

If he was tackled we would have been fine. It was just that the miss control compounded the problem as it acted as perfect pass to the midfielder who could put Antonio through with one touch. You can’t set up a defence on anticipation that your own player can’t control a simple ball. The fact one pass led to the striker having a shot on goal means it would automatically lead to a good chance. We were lucky it wasn’t one of the fastest strikers so the chance wasn’t even as good as it could have been. If it were say a Vardy he’d of used his pace to make it a better chance and would score that almost every time. 

Barry.   We all know quite well the fault lies with iwobi - he fell to his knees.

do you know how many times that happens in a game a miss control?  At least 5 times.   The reason you don’t pick up on it is because the majority of the time the ball goes out for a throw in or it’s just conceded possession.

the annoyance was that there was absolutely no logic to what Keane did and without this insight people would just be dumping the blame solely on iwobi.  The result of the debate means that it sound like we are trying to absolve iwobi of blame and pass it to Keane….. it’s not. Iwobi should have controlled it. 
 

keane strode forward with the ball, took a risk with a dribble. Disrupting the shape of the back line, Richarlison was free…. If he passes to him he was one on one with a defender with dom ahead of him. He passed to iwobi with no obvious second pass on.  
 

professional footballers are meant to pass to players after assessing the options they would have. He picks the player who had the least option with the ball.  It’s called a hot potato.  I really don’t understand the passage of his play, he may as well have just passed it wide to Kenny earlier and kept shape. 

 

[barryj]

I agree a I said that in one of my above comments. There were definitely better options. Richie on the half turn would have been miles better had he seen him (I assume he didn’t). He won’t be around for Burnley so we’ll have to see how we do there without him. I actually think he’d be our best CB for that match as he’s aerially better than Holgate or Godfrey.

[Palfy]

7 hours ago, barryj said:

If he was tackled we would have been fine. It was just that the miss control compounded the problem as it acted as perfect pass to the midfielder who could put Antonio through with one touch. You can’t set up a defence on anticipation that your own player can’t control a simple ball. The fact one pass led to the striker having a shot on goal means it would automatically lead to a good chance. We were lucky it wasn’t one of the fastest strikers so the chance wasn’t even as good as it could have been. If it were say a Vardy he’d of used his pace to make it a better chance and would score that almost every time. 

Godfrey is the only CB left in position he set’s the line Mykolenko and Kenny should be holding where they are a foot or so in front of him. 
Mistake one Mykolenko is a yard behind Godfrey with no one around him, when the ball gets played to Antonio he is in a offside position against Godfrey but Mykolenko keeps him on side, poor positional defensive play is not down to Iwobi..

Mistake two and I do understand why this would happen, is Kenny’s movement up the pitch looking for a ball that never came, why I believe he should have held his ground is because his run left just 2 men in a 4 man defence in position with Keane already out of position, he should have held his position knowing the defence was already depleted, we weren’t chasing the game yet the defence was non existent and left themselves open to a counter attack, but as I mentioned before you can analyse the life out of it and come to many different opinions. 
So for me Iwobi made very poor mistake allowing the ball to roll under his foot, undoubtedly caught our defence off guard, my problem is it shouldn’t a good defence always keeps a good line and shape through out the game, Lampard will be as pissed against the defence as he will be against Iwobi. 

[Hafnia]

14 minutes ago, barryj said:

I agree a I said that in one of my above comments. There were definitely better options. Richie on the half turn would have been miles better had he seen him (I assume he didn’t). He won’t be around for Burnley so we’ll have to see how we do there without him. I actually think he’d be our best CB for that match as he’s aerially better than Holgate or Godfrey.

That’s the thing, they have a 6ft 6 striker and he is ideal against big immobile strikers .  Branthwaite if he comes through this should keep the shirt. 

[Romey 1878]

I find a bit strange that Keane is getting stick for bringing the ball out of defence when we want our CB's to be doing that because more often than not our central midfielders aren't fit for purpose, so we need them to do it. One of the reasons people want Mina back and playing is because he can carry the ball out of defence and get us moving! We were on top and pushing for a vital three points and Keane decided to come forward and try and make something happen. I don't think there was anything wrong with that. When he came out with the ball Holgate or Doucoure should have been dropping back to cover him.

I also don't think he chose the wrong option to give it to Iwobi either. He was in space (like Barry has shown) and he was having a decent game, so our players are naturally going to look for him often. That's not to say the pass to Richarlison was the wrong option though. I think either one would have been a good choice.

At a push you could maybe say he played the pass a bit too hard for Iwobi but the fact that a player trying to get us moving and then giving the ball to an attacking player in space is getting far more attention than the player that was most at fault for the goal is mad.

This season needs to end because it is seriously making us all go a bit weird .

[Hafnia]

5 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I find a bit strange that Keane is getting stick for bringing the ball out of defence when we want our CB's to be doing that because more often than not our central midfielders aren't fit for purpose, so we need them to do it. One of the reasons people want Mina back and playing is because he can carry the ball out of defence and get us moving! We were on top and pushing for a vital three points and Keane decided to come forward and try and make something happen. I don't think there was anything wrong with that. When he came out with the ball Holgate or Doucoure should have been dropping back to cover him.

I also don't think he chose the wrong option to give it to Iwobi either. He was in space (like Barry has shown) and he was having a decent game, so our players are naturally going to look for him often. That's not to say the pass to Richarlison was the wrong option though. I think either one would have been a good choice.

At a push you could maybe say he played the pass a bit too hard for Iwobi but the fact that a player trying to get us moving and then giving the ball to an attacking player in space is getting far more attention than the player that was most at fault for the goal is mad.

This season needs to end because it is seriously making us all go a bit weird .

He brought ball out and went sideways to a player who’s only option would have been to pass to Kenny - Keane could have passed to him before that and not took defence out of shape. 

him bringing the ball out gave him the perfect angle to pass to Richarlison - he was in his eye line but just seemingly lost his head and played the hot potato pass. 

[barryj]

I think we need the next game!