Luton (Home) 30th September

[Palfy]

5 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

It’s going to take time for the new team to gel. Plus, Luton rested their players midweek while we decided to play most of them just three days ago. There’s a price to pay for that, unfortunately. Onward and upward. 

We rested 4 of the players who started against Luton today, if you’re going to use that as a measuring stick as to why Luton beat us we did the same thing.  

[Shukes]

2 hours ago, Goodison Glory said:

The villa game was false. Not for us - a win is a win. But you can't/shouldn't judge villa on that. They rested the most influential players int heir team. Not saying we should expect them to batter Brighton but they're not shite. 

100% if we would have played that same team against their strongest in the league, we would have been murdered. 
unfortunately the Villa game is going to used as a marker for some for a while now. 
 

What you can see is that the manager bowed to opinion and that’s his failure. People have been calling for that second half line up for a while…. And it failed spectacularly. 
 

The fans say they’re at half time saying we will score second half without a doubt, all we need to do is keep going. Ten minutes into the second half the mood had changed as we realised we had no middle, and it turned into that feeling that we could play for two hours and still wouldn’t score a other.

Bit the manager has to stand up now and realise a tweak to tactics is ok, but totally switching tactics at half time is a huge mistake. Not asking for the sack or anything as I tho k he needs a lot more time. 
But a bit of accepted responsibility is needed for me after that. 
 

My worry is now, that fans like Palfy and Haf are right and he won’t be able to change. Maybe they saw early on a flaw in him and got it right.

[Hafnia]

18 minutes ago, Shukes said:

100% if we would have played that same team against their strongest in the league, we would have been murdered. 
unfortunately the Villa game is going to used as a marker for some for a while now. 
 

What you can see is that the manager bowed to opinion and that’s his failure. People have been calling for that second half line up for a while…. And it failed spectacularly. 
 

The fans say they’re at half time saying we will score second half without a doubt, all we need to do is keep going. Ten minutes into the second half the mood had changed as we realised we had no middle, and it turned into that feeling that we could play for two hours and still wouldn’t score a other.

Bit the manager has to stand up now and realise a tweak to tactics is ok, but totally switching tactics at half time is a huge mistake. Not asking for the sack or anything as I tho k he needs a lot more time. 
But a bit of accepted responsibility is needed for me after that. 
 

My worry is now, that fans like Palfy and Haf are right and he won’t be able to change. Maybe they saw early on a flaw in him and got it right.

He went 442 and bypassed the midfield, Tarkowski and Pickford just lacing balls up to their centre halves.

if we started the game 442 and played without desperation and mindless ball lumping, we would have won that game. 
 

Dyche is just fooking about. Why does he need a conflab with woan and stone?  We had no width, Ashley young as a full back when Patterson is fit. 
 

it’s beyond me how unaware he is to what most average fans can see. 

[Hafnia]

14 hours ago, Bailey said:

Very disappointing result. 

First half we were the better team and created plenty of chances, despite conceding two shocking goals from set pieces.

Second half we never really threatened their goal but neither did they.

The changes we made did didly squat and if anything we just stifled our attacking play. 

I thought the centre backs did well. Young was solid. Mykolenko was really poor.

The midfield worked well enough first half. It didnt fire second half. 

McNeil and Garner were causing problems in the first half, both should have scored. Both were poor second half.

Dom snatched at a lot. 

Harrison, Danjuma and Beto didn't really bring a lot to the game.

That was a hard one to take. You just can't drop any points to Luton. You just can't. For all the progress I think Dyche has made, results like this just aren't good enough.

How on earth was young solid? He was absolutely awful. 

[Shukes]

28 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

He went 442 and bypassed the midfield, Tarkowski and Pickford just lacing balls up to their centre halves.

if we started the game 442 and played without desperation and mindless ball lumping, we would have won that game. 
 

Dyche is just fooking about. Why does he need a conflab with woan and stone?  We had no width, Ashley young as a full back when Patterson is fit. 
 

it’s beyond me how unaware he is to what most average fans can see. 

We did start the game like that. We played through the middle with short balls. Didn’t need to change anything. All the fans in the stadium could see it clearly. 
But in the second half he decided to go with two relatively inexperienced central mids and they both had terrible half’s. They struggled with the ball.

Was a terrible decision.

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

We did start the game like that. We played through the middle with short balls. Didn’t need to change anything. All the fans in the stadium could see it clearly. 
But in the second half he decided to go with two relatively inexperienced central mids and they both had terrible half’s. They struggled with the ball.

Was a terrible decision.

Didn’t struggle with the ball, we just bypassed them.  If he wanted to go direct then leave doucoure and gana on, put Beto on and put genuine wide players on. Could take Onana and garner off.

but no, he put his ball players in the middle and went long. Just odd.   
 

should have taken young off after 30 minutes, absolutely finished. 

[Formby]

Was expecting a win yesterday and a win next week. A 3-1-4 record and an International break to come - positive signs.

Instead, a 1-1-5 record and possibly 1-1-6 next week. Should that be the case, we need someone else in. We hung on to Benitez too long.

Tum ti tum scenario: we thump Bournemouth 4-0 and return to the Brentford / Villa level of performance.  

[Zoo 2.0]

Dyche was the right appointment to get us out of a relegation battle, a little bit like Allardyce. He's only ever built squads to finish 17th (other than that freak season where Burnley got into Europe). 

If we pull the trigger now it should be an upcoming manager to replace, hiring relegation manager whilst helpful at the back end of the season when shit is hitting the fan are not the pioneers that I'd like to see in the long run. 

It's probably why I hung onto Lampard for so long, I thought with time he would come good - nowhere near the same bracket but a little bit how Arteta was horrendous at the start with Arsenal then got them flying.

[Shukes]

2 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Didn’t struggle with the ball, we just bypassed them.  If he wanted to go direct then leave doucoure and gana on, put Beto on and put genuine wide players on. Could take Onana and garner off.

but no, he put his ball players in the middle and went long. Just odd.   
 

should have taken young off after 30 minutes, absolutely finished. 

We did mate. The amount of times we had the ball deep with Onana and there was no one in front of him. We stopped being available for those little give and goes. Start of the second half, Onana gets the ball and looks forward…. There’s no one there. 
So then we had to rely on sending it long. 
When we did have it in the middle it just went straight back to Tarks and all he could do was send it long. 
 

Youve got to be brave to play central mid. You have to be want to come and receive the ball. Onana and Garner aren’t those players. 
I’m a massive fan of Onana’s, but I agree with what Romey says. He is frustrating because he looks like he has the ability, but seems to hide away a lot. This could be because he is still young maybe. 
 

We’re still desperately in need of that solid central player. Onana might step into that roll if he can start becoming a bit braver. If not then we need to start looking now for a replacement for Gana. Gana will be gone next year surely, and at the minute we don’t look like we have anyone to replace him.

Garner is an excellent player, but he can’t play that role without having someone to do the dirty work for him, or to do the simple link ups. 
 

So far we’ve watched three matches with those two in the middle, and so far it’s only worked against an experimental Villa side in the league cup. It’s been terrible the rest of the time.

It could work if we maybe brought Duke back into central mid and let Garner be the free roam?

I don’t know the answer, but I’m certain Dyche is looking at his decisions and thinking…. Well that fucked up didn’t it. If he isn’t…. He should be.

[Hafnia]

37 minutes ago, Shukes said:

We did mate. The amount of times we had the ball deep with Onana and there was no one in front of him. We stopped being available for those little give and goes. Start of the second half, Onana gets the ball and looks forward…. There’s no one there. 
So then we had to rely on sending it long. 
When we did have it in the middle it just went straight back to Tarks and all he could do was send it long. 
 

Youve got to be brave to play central mid. You have to be want to come and receive the ball. Onana and Garner aren’t those players. 
I’m a massive fan of Onana’s, but I agree with what Romey says. He is frustrating because he looks like he has the ability, but seems to hide away a lot. This could be because he is still young maybe. 
 

We’re still desperately in need of that solid central player. Onana might step into that roll if he can start becoming a bit braver. If not then we need to start looking now for a replacement for Gana. Gana will be gone next year surely, and at the minute we don’t look like we have anyone to replace him.

Garner is an excellent player, but he can’t play that role without having someone to do the dirty work for him, or to do the simple link ups. 
 

So far we’ve watched three matches with those two in the middle, and so far it’s only worked against an experimental Villa side in the league cup. It’s been terrible the rest of the time.

It could work if we maybe brought Duke back into central mid and let Garner be the free roam?

I don’t know the answer, but I’m certain Dyche is looking at his decisions and thinking…. Well that fucked up didn’t it. If he isn’t…. He should be.

The set up of the team completely contrasted the set up in the week to Villa. He went from a conservative set up with 3 in midfield with no width, to 2 in midfield with no width and then bought the width on late on.

it had absolutely no structure to it. The midfield ain’t gonna have options without genuine width.  It was absolute shite and stunk of someone who is clueless 

[Shukes]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

The set up of the team completely contrasted the set up in the week to Villa. He went from a conservative set up with 3 in midfield with no width, to 2 in midfield with no width and then bought the width on late on.

it had absolutely no structure to it. The midfield ain’t gonna have options without genuine width.  It was absolute shite and stunk of someone who is clueless 

He couldn’t set up the same as he did against Villa mate. This is the premier league. They rested their four best players. 
 

The midfield controlled the match for 45 minutes. Let’s not make the mistake of thinking they played through us and scored goals. They didn't at all…. They hardly had the ball in the middle. 
 

They scored off set pieces because we were shockingly bad at the back in dealing with crosses. We should have been four up first half.

Second half I agree with you totally. Their midfield took control and stopped us having the ball in there at all. It forced us to lump the ball. It was the worst half time team talk I have ever witnessed. I’ve never saw a team change so much so badly in a simple 15 minute break.

Should have been so simple. Keep that momentum up that we ended the half with. Someone take charge at the back for set pieces. Now go out and play. Can’t understand how it went so badly.

It’s almost like they were told to protect the -1 goal cushion. Totally nullified us.

 

[Hafnia]

16 minutes ago, Shukes said:

He couldn’t set up the same as he did against Villa mate. This is the premier league. They rested their four best players. 
 

The midfield controlled the match for 45 minutes. Let’s not make the mistake of thinking they played through us and scored goals. They didn't at all…. They hardly had the ball in the middle. 
 

They scored off set pieces because we were shockingly bad at the back in dealing with crosses. We should have been four up first half.

Second half I agree with you totally. Their midfield took control and stopped us having the ball in there at all. It forced us to lump the ball. It was the worst half time team talk I have ever witnessed. I’ve never saw a team change so much so badly in a simple 15 minute break.

Should have been so simple. Keep that momentum up that we ended the half with. Someone take charge at the back for set pieces. Now go out and play. Can’t understand how it went so badly.

It’s almost like they were told to protect the -1 goal cushion. Totally nullified us.

 

Are you seriously telling me that villas team that they put out vs us is weaker than Luton?!  We were playing arguably the weakest team to play in the prem and we set up like an away side. 

[Shukes]

7 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Are you seriously telling me that villas team that they put out vs us is weaker than Luton?!  We were playing arguably the weakest team to play in the prem and we set up like an away side. 

Eh??? What????

Mate I think you’re just looking for an argument now. I’ll leave it there.

[RuffRob]

It's been a problem we have had for some time. We are not that great when we dominate possession of the ball. However, there is one slight difference at the moment, we are actually creating a lot of chances  and of enough of the quality that should win games. 

It's frustrating as hell, but there is an improved in the team. Just need that home win to releif the pressure in home games.

There is now goals in this team, but its still early days for out new forward line.

 

 

[Gwlad]

Best for my health if I mark this thread as read.

[chicagoblue]

On 30/09/2023 at 09:11, Hafnia said:

Maybe dyche will use this in his post match “I’m too clever for logic” excuse.

we lost at home to one of the worst teams to play in the premier league 

Expect they'll give that Derrby team a run for worst ever

[Hafnia]

3 minutes ago, chicagoblue said:

Expect they'll give that Derrby team a run for worst ever

Yep. I see them getting less than 20 points despite our best help.