Ashley Young

[c1982]

Play Harrison in front of him for 90mins and we’re not talking about this.

[c1982]

Young was 100% at fault for their 1st goal yesterday so not dismissing a poor performance but we simply should not be playing Garner on the right at home to Luton when we’ve got Harrison and Danjuma available. Gueye didn’t need to play yesterday. Poor tactics by Dyche.

[Romey 1878]

28 minutes ago, c1982 said:

Young was 100% at fault for their 1st goal yesterday so not dismissing a poor performance but we simply should be playing Garner on the right at home to Luton when we’ve got Harrison and Danjuma available. Gueye didn’t need to play yesterday. Poor tactics by Dyche.

It's his risk averseness on display wants again and it's driving me a bit mad tbh.

It's unlikely to change at his age now but if it doesn't it's likely to cost him his job.

[Hafnia]

Why not play Patterson? Dyche really doesn’t trust youth. 

[Matt]

50 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Why not play Patterson? Dyche really doesn’t trust youth. 

McNeil, Onana, Garner and Branthwaite might disagree...

[Hafnia]

59 minutes ago, Matt said:

McNeil, Onana, Garner and Branthwaite might disagree...

Garner and branthwaite may agree….both players should have been in way sooner than they were - they are 21. 

McNeil and Onana are 22/23. Hardly kids. 

How is young preferred over Patterson? Help me out here. 

[Bailey]

I don't really understand the criticism of Young. I think he has been a very solid defender, which unfortunately can't be said about our other options in that position. His positioning compared to Mykolenko is like chalk and cheese.

I have been disappointed with his attacking output, because the quality hasn't been there. Which again fits with our other options in the position. 

I also cant have him being responsible for the first goal either. It comes at him at an awkward height. He has reacts as best as he can but the attacker is on him. The problem is losing the header in the first place.

[Palfy]

If you’re good enough you’re old enough, my problem is if you aren’t going to play players in their favoured positions why play them at all unless injuries dictate. So my problem is with Garner why play him out of position on the right when you have to wide men in Danjuma and Harrison sat on the bench. 

[Bailey]

9 minutes ago, Palfy said:

If you’re good enough you’re old enough, my problem is if you aren’t going to play players in their favoured positions why play them at all unless injuries dictate. So my problem is with Garner why play him out of position on the right when you have to wide men in Danjuma and Harrison sat on the bench. 

I thought Garner was more successful in that role then Harrison or Danjuma. Garner played a big part in creating the goal, should have had an assist and should have scored. 

[Palfy]

4 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I thought Garner was more successful in that role then Harrison or Danjuma. Garner played a big part in creating the goal, should have had an assist and should have scored. 

I’m not talking about just 45 minutes of football but Garner was more successful in that half when he came inside. I’m confused that a manager all throughout the closed season kept going on about the need to get wingers in, he gets his wish in Danjuma and Harrison yet chooses to play Garner out of position and leave his wide men on the bench, I get he wants Garner on the pitch his ability has proved he’s better than what we have in midfield, Dyche just needs to have the conviction of his beliefs and drop Gana or Doucoure and put Garner where he will be more of an asset for the team, personally I’d drop Gana he’s definitely not creative enough to be playing where he is and he squanders every opportunity he has in front of goal.  

[Shukes]

Garners not a player that we can put in the middle without Gana to do the other work Palfy. It’s plain to see whenever we try it.

I agree we should be playing with wingers. But Garner needs to have width. His skill set doesn’t lend to being the link up player. We saw it yesterday. Just a big massive hole in the middle as Onana really wants to just sit back for some reason. 
 

I agree that he may work better with Doucoure in there. As Duke could be the link up man, but then we lose his box to box ability. Maybe if Doucs sat back and allowed Garner to push forward more? 
I don't know the answer, don’t even know if there is one with the players we have. 
 

I think unfortunately we don’t have the players to allow Garner to sit there and spray passes. 

[Palfy]

11 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Garners not a player that we can put in the middle without Gana to do the other work Palfy. It’s plain to see whenever we try it.

I agree we should be playing with wingers. But Garner needs to have width. His skill set doesn’t lend to being the link up player. We saw it yesterday. Just a big massive hole in the middle as Onana really wants to just sit back for some reason. 
 

I agree that he may work better with Doucoure in there. As Duke could be the link up man, but then we lose his box to box ability. Maybe if Doucs sat back and allowed Garner to push forward more? 
I don't know the answer, don’t even know if there is one with the players we have. 
 

I think unfortunately we don’t have the players to allow Garner to sit there and spray passes. 

He was the best player against Villa playing in the central role, and we rested McNeil, Gana, Doucoure, and Young who all started yesterday. Maybe the answer is find a manager who picks his best starting 11 on regular basis and we might start seeing the consistency he keeps banging on about. 

[Shukes]

5 minutes ago, Palfy said:

He was the best player against Villa playing in the central role, and we rested McNeil, Gana, Doucoure, and Young who all started yesterday. Maybe the answer is find a manager who picks his best starting 11 on regular basis and we might start seeing the consistency he keeps banging on about. 

He was against Villa mate. But by anyone’s standards that was a poor Villa team. And we shocked everyone with that performance. 
But he played centrally against Doncaster and was shocking and he played centrally against Luton second half and was equally shocking mate. 
One league cup shock isn’t enough for me. Needs to be where it counts, and that’s in the premier league fighting for survival.
 

He needs someone like Gana alongside him to help him for me. 
 

I can see where the terrible two are going with all the posts at the min haha.  
I think you guys think people are against Garner for some reason. That’s not the case. I rate him highly as a player, but in my opinion I don’t think he is ready to play centrally in that link up position. We’ve tried it several times and it has ended up badly for 90% of the time. 
Yet when he plays with a bit of width, he plays better and the team is more successful.  

Look, I’m just going to agree to disagree with the two of you for now. Don't want a discussion to turn into an argument and I feel it’s edging that way mate. 
 

Me and you can just face it we’ll disagree on each others names if we can just to have a spar haha  

Gonna save it for the next one

[Gwlad]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

He was the best player against Villa playing in the central role, and we rested McNeil, Gana, Doucoure, and Young who all started yesterday. Maybe the answer is find a manager who picks his best starting 11 on regular basis and we might start seeing the consistency he keeps banging on about. 

My thought too. Why muck about with a team that got us of to a winning start against Villa. We do have options on the bench now which can be subbed on.

[Goodison Glory]

23 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Garner and branthwaite may agree….both players should have been in way sooner than they were - they are 21. 

McNeil and Onana are 22/23. Hardly kids. 

How is young preferred over Patterson? Help me out here. 

Onana and Patterson were born 2 months apart. So are they both kids or not kids?? 

[Hafnia]

8 hours ago, Goodison Glory said:

Onana and Patterson were born 2 months apart. So are they both kids or not kids?? 

Fair play for actually checking the dates of birth, couldn’t be arsed doing that but as far as I know Onana is 22 and Patterson is 21…..

maybe if Patterson was 2 months older then Dyche wouldn’t have started a 38 year old who’s legs have gone? 

But yeah…. The only common denominator I can find that explains dyche playing young over Patterson is age - ironically. The same for playing Gana or Doucoure ahead of a technically superior James Garner.

maybe the fact that Onana is a £35m player means he knows he can’t drop him. 
 

I’ll happily listen to other reasons as to why Michael Keane was preferred over Branthwaite, young over Patterson, doucoure/gana over garner.  

[Romey 1878]

Even when he’s having a bad game Onana will stay on because he’s tall for when we have a set-piece. He should’ve been taken off against Luton before Gana but he gets a reprieve for that reason.

If he was actually good at heading the ball it might make sense. 

[Shukes]

Keane was preferred over Branthwaite because Branthwaite wasn’t at the club mate. He was in Holland with PSV. 

[Matt]

15 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Keane was preferred over Branthwaite because Branthwaite wasn’t at the club mate. He was in Holland with PSV. 

Think he means the beginning of the season where for conference after conference Dyche said he was back late to preseason by a couple of weeks so needed to catch up. Once he had, he was in. But that's not as fun as trying to pick someone apart.

[Matt]

19 hours ago, Goodison Glory said:

Onana and Patterson were born 2 months apart. So are they both kids or not kids?? 

Apparently that jump from 22 to 23 is transformative...

[Romey 1878]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

Think he means the beginning of the season where for conference after conference Dyche said he was back late to preseason by a couple of weeks so needed to catch up. Once he had, he was in. But that's not as fun as trying to pick someone apart.

He was also carrying an injury.

[Matt]

40 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

He was also carrying an injury.

Sssssh, that doesn't fit the narrative!

[Hafnia]

7 hours ago, Matt said:

Sssssh, that doesn't fit the narrative!

He wasn’t carrying an injury at all, was in the squads for the England team where Garner played. He just wasn’t picked. 

not one injury this season, thd only one was a fib so he didn’t go with under 21s in September because he was first choice for us at that time 

[Hafnia]

10 hours ago, Matt said:

Think he means the beginning of the season where for conference after conference Dyche said he was back late to preseason by a couple of weeks so needed to catch up. Once he had, he was in. But that's not as fun as trying to pick someone apart.

Hmmm but dyche plays mcneil who isn’t fit?  He’s not very consistent in his approach is he. Suppose it depends who you are. 

[Matt]

7 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Hmmm but dyche plays mcneil who isn’t fit?  He’s not very consistent in his approach is he. Suppose it depends who you are. 

Out of desperation I'd say. But you are absolutely correct with that last statement. Seems I got Onana being the new chew toy wrong

 

[Romey 1878]

57 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

He wasn’t carrying an injury at all, was in the squads for the England team where Garner played. He just wasn’t picked. 

He came back from England duty carrying an injury, which is why it was agreed he would withdraw from the squad in the last international break.

[Hafnia]

30 minutes ago, Matt said:

Out of desperation I'd say. But you are absolutely correct with that last statement. Seems I got Onana being the new chew toy wrong

 

So he plays mcneil out of “desperation” despite having danjuma and dobbin who could play his position but doesn’t play Branthwaite when all we had was Keane or Godfrey…..

like I say Matt, I’m really struggling to understand how Dyche can make one rule for one and not another. Well I’m not struggling actually - he has his favourites. Patterson being dropped for Ashley young after playing so well vs Villa……. Ah yes that will be the Patterson who he dropped for Holgate last season.   Another baffling one. 

[Hafnia]

14 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

He came back from England duty carrying an injury, which is why it was agreed he would withdraw from the squad in the last international break.

Dyche didn’t say he was injured,  I recall the press conference he said he is in his thoughts but he needs to look at him and he needs to be match fit.  He was on the bench first game of the season…

McNeil got injured in the summer, got time vs sheff United and looked way off and he’s been getting played since.   He’s a walking contradiction 

Edit…. Just watched press conference- said he was short of match fitness after being away with the under 21s…… yet Garner who was away with under 21s played. Nothing about injury at all. Cos he wasn’t injured 

[Romey 1878]

16 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Dyche didn’t say he was injured,  I recall the press conference he said he is in his thoughts but he needs to look at him and he needs to be match fit.  He was on the bench first game of the season…

McNeil got injured in the summer, got time vs sheff United and looked way off and he’s been getting played since.   He’s a walking contradiction 

Edit…. Just watched press conference- said he was short of match fitness after being away with the under 21s…… yet Garner who was away with under 21s played. Nothing about injury at all. Cos he wasn’t injured 

I didn’t say Dyche had said anything. When the club announced that Branthwaite had withdrawn from the squad it was what they said. 

[Matt]

33 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

So he plays mcneil out of “desperation” despite having danjuma and dobbin who could play his position but doesn’t play Branthwaite when all we had was Keane or Godfrey…..

like I say Matt, I’m really struggling to understand how Dyche can make one rule for one and not another. Well I’m not struggling actually - he has his favourites. Patterson being dropped for Ashley young after playing so well vs Villa……. Ah yes that will be the Patterson who he dropped for Holgate last season.   Another baffling one. 

Every manager has their favourites, that's not unique. In a time of desperation you might look to the people who have performed for you in the past and hope they step up again. Dobbin isn't anywhere near the same levels yet, Patterson has a major swing between looking really good and looking shit and that may not be a risk hes willing to take in tough times. At least with Young you know it's going to be consistently mediocre and that's maybe good enough most games. 

He's got his flaws but let's not blow them out of proportion. We need calm heads and patience else we will start the whole cycle again. Then again, if the 777 deal goes through, he'll be out the door anyway.