chalkpie Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Wigan had three England internationals on the pitch plus a striker scoring for Belgium did they? Definite correlation. Edit: I'm always at my happiest when I'm in a minority, real comfort zone; if everyone agrees with me I really begin to doubt my judgement. Mike - nope - separate ideas there mate. That's what the period is for between sentences. Let me ask you honestly - do you think its a just coincidence that Martinez has a history of shipping goals amongst Wigan and EFC? Do you not buy into any of those prophetic statements that were issued by Wigan fans when RM was hired here? Are you still 100% convinced that RM is the man to lead this team forward next season? These are honest questions and not meant to bust your balls, I'm really just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 In answer to the questions. 1. Coincidence is a daft word to use, he had poor players at Wigan rather than the six international defenders he has now. He's entitled to expect a degree of ability from them. They really should be able to organise themselves. 2. Also a bit suspect due to difference in the quality he had/has at his disposal. 3. I've never been 100% convinced by him (unlike many on here in his first season who were but who've changed as often as British Bank holiday weather in the meantime) but I'm not yet ready to give up. I'm not going to say the "K" word again because no doubt people will have had enough of it but for me, as of today, I'm keeping the faith. We lose 6-0 on Saturday ask me again . We win on Saturday ask everyone else . Edit: Make that Sunday. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 You guys must be the last two people on Earth that still believe in that clown - I do commend you for that at least. Do you not see the correlation of Wigan when RM was in charge? We are a carbon copy.....Leaky defence there, leaky defence here. Three England internationals on the pitch the other night and we sit 12th. And Lukaku scores as well for Belgium. I'll believe the players should share half the blame when we have a new manager and we still sit 12th with the current squad. Glad to eat crow on that. Didn't say I believe in him. Just that I don't give the players a free ticket like most the rest if our fans. Having played the game for 25+ years I understand that I manager can only be part of what happens on the pitch. I found that I myself had a massive influence on how we played and the results that we got. So did the rest of my team. We had superstars, but they would be on the bench if they thought they were too good for us. Our team was a team from day one, if you weren't prepared to be part of that team then you knew where the door was. We won,lost and fought together as a team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Didn't say I believe in him. Just that I don't give the players a free ticket like most the rest if our fans. Having played the game for 25+ years I understand that I manager can only be part of what happens on the pitch. I found that I myself had a massive influence on how we played and the results that we got. So did the rest of my team. We had superstars, but they would be on the bench if they thought they were too good for us. Our team was a team from day one, if you weren't prepared to be part of that team then you knew where the door was. We won,lost and fought together as a team. You don't seem too bothered that Martinez doesn't take any responsibility though? It is everyone's responsibility, totally agree with you on that, but not everyone is willing to take that responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 And the correlation is between Rom. World class Rom, who is can handedly wins games. Where are Everton? He scored for Belgium did he....and I take it they won? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted April 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 If he can be persuaded to stay another season then great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Shukes and Mike - I totally understand that the players need to be accountable - that's a given. They have all made a shitoad of errors on the pitch. But to my eyes RM has made more: his constant playing an out-of-form Howard, bizarre substitutions, horrendous cross defending, the inability to close out a match (via changing tactics), an overall lack of inspiration to his players on the pitch (like watching snails fuck at times), and a manner to constantly spin positive bullshit to the media without ever acknowledging his own flaws. My jealousy lies in looking at both Tottenham and Leicester - they seem to be able to accomplish most of these things. Better players? I honestly think we possess the same quality (at least), so the next logical step is to look ta the managerial policies and tactics. Then when you take into account his history of poor defending (both here and at Wigan), our current place on the table, and a disgusting home record which is absolutely beyond horrendous, then I feel its time to move on. The majority of the fan-base feels the same way. He's made broken promises of Champions League, etc and an FA Cup is only to be a distraction because of his inability to mend these and other things. I'm beyond done with this joker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) Top comments on availability of in doubt players on the official facebook page. Jesus Wept. Edited April 1, 2016 by Chach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-boss-roberto-martinez-hoping-11126782 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/royal-blue-martinez-right-its-11127477 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 Just seen some stats about Roberto, As a Premier league manager 247 games 80 wins 74 draws 103 losses 325 goals for 405 goals against 31% win ratio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 But for Everton it's... 134 games 60 wins 36 draws 38 losses 160 goals scored 130 against 44.8% win ratio The stats that involve his time at Swansea & Wigan are meaningless as far as I'm concerned. Deacs and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 It's the lack of winning that concerns me, he wasn't a proven manager at winning when we hired him, and is win ratio isn't superb with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 It's the lack of winning that concerns me, he wasn't a proven manager at winning when we hired him, and is win ratio isn't superb with us. Better than Moyes (42.8%). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 Better than Moyes (42.8%). Yup, didn't win much with him either. I just feel with this investment we really need to kick on to the next level, we need to be achieving more, becoming more like Spurs, don't think that'll happen under Martinez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 But for Everton it's... 134 games 60 wins 36 draws 38 losses 160 goals scored 130 against 44.8% win ratio The stats that involve his time at Swansea & Wigan are meaningless as far as I'm concerned. Better than Moyes (42.8%). Also meaningless seeing as though Moyes inherited a team that continuously flirted with relegation and turned them around into a regular top 8 side Admittedly Roberto has also inherited a side and turned them around, unfortunately its the in opposite direction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 Also meaningless seeing as though Moyes inherited a team that continuously flirted with relegation and turned them around into a regular top 8 side Admittedly Roberto has also inherited a side and turned them around, unfortunately its the in opposite direction How are they meaningless? I quoted two facts with no mention of context . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 How are they meaningless? I quoted two facts with no mention of context . I was referring to the statement about having a better win ratio than Moyes, whilst factual it's pretty meaningless in the context You yourself stated the previous stats were meaningless , were they not also factual ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 I was referring to the statement about having a better win ratio than Moyes, whilst factual it's pretty meaningless in the context You yourself stated the previous stats were meaningless , were they not also factual ? Yes but not specific to Everton, I have no interest in Wigan's record; non-league club coming good briefly on a tiny budget. Anyway, no wish to fall out over it; I see people's frustrations and understand them, I'm just offering an alternative viewpoint. And (as I've said before) I'm always happier when I'm in a minority, far more comfortable there . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 Yes but not specific to Everton, I have no interest in Wigan's record; non-league club coming good briefly on a tiny budget. Anyway, no wish to fall out over it; I see people's frustrations and understand them, I'm just offering an alternative viewpoint. And (as I've said before) I'm always happier when I'm in a minority, far more comfortable there . Ha ha no chance of falling out, I respect your opinion and you are a calming influence around here because more often than not you are the voice of reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 Ha ha no chance of falling out, I respect your opinion and you are a calming influence around here because more often than not you are the voice of reason Not quite sure how to respond to that mate, feel somewhat humbled but really appreciate the thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Not quite sure how to respond to that mate, feel somewhat humbled but really appreciate the thought. Though my wife would disagree with you strongly! Ha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Mike, is that the first 3 seasons of Moyes' time with us or the total? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 I think we can do better than both Moyes AND Martinez. Time to move on and explore our options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 I think we can do better than both Moyes AND Martinez. Time to move on and explore our options. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 If I were a new manager of this team, the very first thing I would say to the lads in the dressing room is: "I want you lads to go out there and show the fans, myself, and yourselves the MOST ENERGY you have have given as a footballer, EVER, and play the remainder of the 90 minutes that way as if this match was a World Cup Final. Show this club the utmost pride it deserves or get off the pitch and let somebody else play your position who is willing to do so." ........Or some bullshit like that. I just don't see Roberto inspiring the guys on that level, and when you go back and watch the second half of the Arsenal fiasco, you can clearly see that half of them were playing like they didn't two fucks. It is the managers responsibility to inspire this team. Four home wins in a year is not exactly inspiring the team to new levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Mike, is that the first 3 seasons of Moyes' time with us or the total? Total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Mike, is that the first 3 seasons of Moyes' time with us or the total? His first three (and a bit) seasons... Won 48 Drew 24 Lost 47 Scored 156 Against 174 Win rate 40.3%. Last three seasons (out of interest) Won 44 Drew 41 Lost 29 Scored 156 Against 125 Win rate 38.6% Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 The main problem with Roberto is his stubbornness, his apparent refusal to learn from mistakes. This means that his tactics are easily analysed and there are a number of very sharp managers in the Premiership who will do just that. Why is is that we have such a poor home record? In most cases its because opposition managers have done their homework and adopt their tactics accordingly. We do not play well against teams who consistently get 10 men behind the ball. We struggle to open up packed defences. This is why our home record is so poor. When we play away, the opposition attack us more which provides more space for our mid-field and attackers. At home, we do not win many headers from crosses so our crosses tend to be low or pulled back. For his size, Rom should win far more headers than he does, but we need someone with a good leap who can unsettle defences and provide an outlet for our wide players. Deacs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 The main problem with Roberto is his stubbornness, his apparent refusal to learn from mistakes. This means that his tactics are easily analysed and there are a number of very sharp managers in the Premiership who will do just that. Why is is that we have such a poor home record? In most cases its because opposition managers have done their homework and adopt their tactics accordingly. We do not play well against teams who consistently get 10 men behind the ball. We struggle to open up packed defences. This is why our home record is so poor. When we play away, the opposition attack us more which provides more space for our mid-field and attackers. At home, we do not win many headers from crosses so our crosses tend to be low or pulled back. For his size, Rom should win far more headers than he does, but we need someone with a good leap who can unsettle defences and provide an outlet for our wide players. You ever seen the film Tin Cup? He is like Kevin Costner in that film... tell him what to do and he will do the opposite despite knowing it's the wrong thing to do. The ego just can't help itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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