Martinez - Direction?

[Newty82]

 

You're acting like the players aren't getting blamed at all, which simply isn't true. As far as I can see the manager and players have been getting the blame for yesterday, I know I certainly blamed both.

 

But seeing as this is the thread about Martinez I'd expect the comments in here to be about him.

 

And, I have no idea what parts of your post even say!

What, you don't know what 'perspnalitusloke' is?

 

You, my friend, need to head over to Urban Dictionary!

[Lowensda]

From NSNO forum 3 years ago....all sounds a bit familiar.

 

http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=42107.0

 

1) What do you make of Roberto Martinez? will he be a success at Everton?

 

" Difficult to say whether he'll be a success. He has a bigger budget & a better squad but he also has far bigger expectations weighing on his shoulders. I think Everton are at the peak of what they can achieve without big financial backing so the only way is down in many respects. At Latics he had very little pressure from either the fans or the chairman & got a great deal of patience even during lengthy runs of defeats. He won't get that anywhere else BUT having more money & (on paper) a better squad may be the spur he needs to show his true potential. "

 

" I don't think Martinez will replicate the same success of Moyes at Everton. Moyes seems to me like the kind of guy who is always willing to change something if it isn't working, whereas Martinez will beat a dead horse for all it is worth. This rigidity will possibly mean that Everton have periods where his attractive play decimates other teams in the league with a more primitive playing style, but then other teams will be well prepared for his often predictable ethos of focussing all possession down one flank by passing sideways across the pitch, which is easily negated by the opposition playing a wider formation. Therefore, I think under Martinez you will have absolutely blinders and then the next week absolute shockers, but never the same consistency as a manager like Moyes who can prepare a defence for the inevitability of a counter-attack started by a poor pass, which Martinez was utterly hopeless at during his time here. "

 

" Hes an eloquent speaker but will tell you what you want to hear. He is adept at avoiding difficult questions. Its far too early to say whether hell be a success at Everton but I doubt that hell do better than Moyes. He won the FA Cup with us but apart from that his cup runs were poor. "

 

" As a group, even on this site, we have very mixed opinions. Some members will wildly disagree with me, but my opinion of him isn't very good. Starting with the positives, he's a very nice bloke, total professional, and speaks well, so will be a superb ambassador for the club. He's committed to playing his idea of the beautiful game, so you'll see some beautiful attacking moves. On the down side, based on my experience, however, you'll see 87 minutes of sideways and backwards passing, interspersed with very poor defending. We weren't the best defensive team in terms of quality, but we did have some decent players, but Martínez's defensive coaching must be woeful. When things don't go to plan, you'll not see changes in tactics (or personnel until at least 80 minutes): there is no plan B. The attacking tempo is very slow and our breaks always relied on a single man, so often were stopped in their tracks. Your free kicks will be wasted with short passes when they could easily be put into the box; that's academic though since you'll rarely see more than 1 or 2 players in the box. "

 

" Success will depend on your own personal opinion. I can't see Martinez getting Everton Champions League as claimed by the man himself. Yes we won the FA Cup but he ripped that one great thing up, when he left us relegated and without a Manager. Just goes to show, modern humans are always Loyal to the £££££ notes and not the club as of old. "

 

 

2) What would you say was his biggest flaw?

 

" He's very stubborn. He has a very set way of thinking the game should be played & will often deviate from that regardless of the players he has at his disposal. I've heard a lot from Everton fans dismissing the volume of goals Latics conceded under him as being down purely to having lesser players. Some food for thought is that under Bruce, Latics had the 7th best defence in the division - with the exact same defence, within 3 & a half months of Bobby's reign they'd conceded more goals than during the whole of the previous season & that trend continued. "

 

" Martinez has many flaws . The biggest I would say is that he does not have a clue how to change a game if his plan A does not work.. He has no plan B and it is at times painful to watch . Don't forget this is the man that failed to strengthen the Wigan defence in the transfer window thus leading us to go down . "

 

 

" As has been said, defence. Over the four years he was here we conceded a lot of goals including some very embarrassing ones (see the Figueroa/Robles combination last season), being thumped 9-1, 8-0, 6-0, 4-0 by the top 4 wasn't great either, however it must be said that it was under Martinez that we have managed to beat these teams for the first time as well.

I don't believe that he doesn't have a plan b (we just didn't see it very often) as the 3-2 comeback wins over Arsenal and West Ham were some of the best games I've seen at the DW and included tactical changes. "

 

" The list is long, but for me it's the total absence of a plan B. you can go to the game and know after 15 minutes that the tactics simply aren't working. At that point, you despair because you know there'll be another 75 minutes of the same ineffectual tactics. Einstein put it thus: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." If that's true, Señor Martínez is a bona fide loon. "

 

" His stubbornness. He will never ever have a plan b, always relying on the attractive passing style. You can bank on him never changing the players of his team whether you're 2-0 up and need to defend or 5-0 down and desperately in need of a change. "

 

 

3) What do you make of our transfer business this summer with the additions of Kone, Joel Robles, Alcaraz and Deulofeu joining the squad?

 

" Kone will be decent only because you have the players to supply him, Robles good up and coming goalie, a good replacement for Howard in the future. Alcaraz is a very good signing if he stays injury free, no idea about Deulofeu but don't expect him to play much as Martinez seems to pick up loan players and never really used them. "

 

" I think all of those players are good signings, although I have seen little of Deulofeu. Alcaraz is ridiculously underrated and one of the strongest defenders I have seen in a Wigan shirt. Kone is inconsistent and rough around the edges, but with the quality of Everton's midfield and wide players, with suppliers such as Osman, Pienaar, Baines etc, he will thrive, due to his strength and speed making him able to latch onto the quality passes and crosses they will deliver. Robles was so good for us it upsets me we didn't make more of an effort to sign him permanently. Within a few years he will be up there with the best keepers in the league. So, despite the obvious displeasure of Everton fans at his apparent over reliance on his former players I think he has strengthened the right areas, with a striker who will put them away and a centre half who can lead the defence especially if Martinez plays 3 / 5 at the back. "

 

" Koné was excellent last season, and if he can maintain that form, he'll do even better with service from Baines, Pienaar etc. Alcaraz is also superb and was our best defender by a mile when fit, but is injury prone. If he stays fit he'll be great for you. Robles commands his area well, organises his defence, and is a star in the making. Distribution and kicking are a thing of beauty at times. Like a lot of goalkeepers though (especially young ones) he seems prone to the occasional howler, but is otherwise great. I know nothing of Deulofeu... "

 

" In all honesty, whilst good players for Latics, I don't think that Kone, Alcaraz or Robles are the quality of signing that a club looking to push for a top 5/6 finish should be making. They're mid-table/upper bottom half quality. As for Deulofeu - don't expect to see sight nor sound of him. He loaned loads of "promising youngsters" whilst at Latics & hardly ever played any of them. "

 

" I'm not sure why people rate Robles so highly here - he's decent shot-stopper and probably good back up for Howard but it's the most. Not sure he has chosen the right league to play in and 5-year contract for me is a risk. He was cheap for you and it's great but I won't consider him as a great EPL keeper, even in the future. Alcaraz is a very underrated player - for me he was the best defender I ever seen in a Wigan shirt - he is outstanding and we would never win FA Cup without him. About Kone - I don't think we ever had such good natural born striker in the last 7-8 years. I feel sorry to lose these 2 guys but in all honesty they don't deserve to play in the Championship.

 

 

4) Where do you think Everton will finish? why?

 

" 12th. I think you will spend the first half of the season adapting to his style of play and the second half wondering where the defence has gone. You will win games though, you do have a better side than Wigan. "

 

" My guess would be 10th-12th. Moyes' stability was a very solid basis for the team, and is now gone. You'll probably wonder why you've gifted so many points when you could've been in the Champions league if you hadn't conceded so many silly, needless goals. "

 

"Around 12th to 8th because of the high quality of the team he has inherited. I think his stubbornness and the significant change in style will hinder your performances. If Martinez has learned anything from the mistakes he made at Wigan I would expect you to be back to European contention in a couple of years time."

 

" I think Everton will finish above mid table, your squad doesn't look to have changed much. I would say it depends on the future of Baines, and any more signings that come in. It also depends how much Martinez changes the style of play and how the players adapt to it, so I'd say 8th. "

 

" Mid-table. Season of transition. I think you're likely to lose Baines & Fellaini & I think it'll take time for their replacements to bed in & for the whole squad to adapt to Bobby's system. "

 

 

5) Was Roberto Martinez the best choice for Everton FC? if not, who was?

 

" I think the choice was, with all respect, a poor one. I think it was based on the false promises Roberto is good at making, and his way of advertising himself as a skilled manager who kept such a 'small' and 'weak' team In the league against the odds, and the way the pundits rave about him because of the attractiveness of his passing style counteracting the way it hinders a teams ability to win. "

 

" Wouldn't have been my first choice. I'd have made a play for someone experienced who could take the best of what Moyes built and fine tune, rather than reinventing the wheel (to a Barcelona style system that doesn't work unless you have talent like Messi, Iniesta, Xavi etc, When he knows he's not got much money by PL standards. "

 

" Hes capable of managing a budget so he was probably the best choice in this respect. However, he was not the best choice if you are aiming for a European place. I would have gone for Laudrup. "

 

" Time will tell. I think he got the job purely because he was seen as being able to do great things with little money. The problem is for all that his good points will be magnified at a more high profile club so will his flaws. "

 

" Everton's budget isn't as tight as Wigan's, though you appear to have quite a lot of debt hanging around. I like Bill Kenwright, he's a likeable bloke and loves Everton. Apparently so does Martinez now! lol. I did like the sound of Ralf Rangnick, he did a good job at both Hoffenheim where he transformed the club from a 3rd division minnow into a genuine solid Bundesliga side and at Schalke where he led the club to a Champions League Semi. Martinez C.V. will say he won us a Cup and you have to give him credit for that, but you also have to give him credit/blame for relegating us. He can't have one accolade without the other. But good luck. "

[Shukes]

 

You're acting like the players aren't getting blamed at all, which simply isn't true. As far as I can see the manager and players have been getting the blame for yesterday, I know I certainly blamed both.

 

But seeing as this is the thread about Martinez I'd expect the comments in here to be about him.

 

And, I have no idea what parts of your post even say!

Haha just read my post again and I can't understand it .

 

I am so pissed off today after watching that pitiful performance.

Where are our club captains?

Where are the senior players?

Where is the will to win?

 

We should get rid of the manager and the players.

 

Get a Vierra or a Keane.

Someone who will fight for his team and his team mates.

[Oztoffee]

From NSNO forum 3 years ago....all sounds a bit familiar.

 

http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=42107.0

 

1) What do you make of Roberto Martinez? will he be a success at Everton?

 

" Difficult to say whether he'll be a success. He has a bigger budget & a better squad but he also has far bigger expectations weighing on his shoulders. I think Everton are at the peak of what they can achieve without big financial backing so the only way is down in many respects. At Latics he had very little pressure from either the fans or the chairman & got a great deal of patience even during lengthy runs of defeats. He won't get that anywhere else BUT having more money & (on paper) a better squad may be the spur he needs to show his true potential. "

 

" I don't think Martinez will replicate the same success of Moyes at Everton. Moyes seems to me like the kind of guy who is always willing to change something if it isn't working, whereas Martinez will beat a dead horse for all it is worth. This rigidity will possibly mean that Everton have periods where his attractive play decimates other teams in the league with a more primitive playing style, but then other teams will be well prepared for his often predictable ethos of focussing all possession down one flank by passing sideways across the pitch, which is easily negated by the opposition playing a wider formation. Therefore, I think under Martinez you will have absolutely blinders and then the next week absolute shockers, but never the same consistency as a manager like Moyes who can prepare a defence for the inevitability of a counter-attack started by a poor pass, which Martinez was utterly hopeless at during his time here. "

 

" Hes an eloquent speaker but will tell you what you want to hear. He is adept at avoiding difficult questions. Its far too early to say whether hell be a success at Everton but I doubt that hell do better than Moyes. He won the FA Cup with us but apart from that his cup runs were poor. "

 

" As a group, even on this site, we have very mixed opinions. Some members will wildly disagree with me, but my opinion of him isn't very good. Starting with the positives, he's a very nice bloke, total professional, and speaks well, so will be a superb ambassador for the club. He's committed to playing his idea of the beautiful game, so you'll see some beautiful attacking moves. On the down side, based on my experience, however, you'll see 87 minutes of sideways and backwards passing, interspersed with very poor defending. We weren't the best defensive team in terms of quality, but we did have some decent players, but Martínez's defensive coaching must be woeful. When things don't go to plan, you'll not see changes in tactics (or personnel until at least 80 minutes): there is no plan B. The attacking tempo is very slow and our breaks always relied on a single man, so often were stopped in their tracks. Your free kicks will be wasted with short passes when they could easily be put into the box; that's academic though since you'll rarely see more than 1 or 2 players in the box. "

 

" Success will depend on your own personal opinion. I can't see Martinez getting Everton Champions League as claimed by the man himself. Yes we won the FA Cup but he ripped that one great thing up, when he left us relegated and without a Manager. Just goes to show, modern humans are always Loyal to the £££££ notes and not the club as of old. "

 

 

2) What would you say was his biggest flaw?

 

" He's very stubborn. He has a very set way of thinking the game should be played & will often deviate from that regardless of the players he has at his disposal. I've heard a lot from Everton fans dismissing the volume of goals Latics conceded under him as being down purely to having lesser players. Some food for thought is that under Bruce, Latics had the 7th best defence in the division - with the exact same defence, within 3 & a half months of Bobby's reign they'd conceded more goals than during the whole of the previous season & that trend continued. "

 

" Martinez has many flaws . The biggest I would say is that he does not have a clue how to change a game if his plan A does not work.. He has no plan B and it is at times painful to watch . Don't forget this is the man that failed to strengthen the Wigan defence in the transfer window thus leading us to go down . "

 

 

" As has been said, defence. Over the four years he was here we conceded a lot of goals including some very embarrassing ones (see the Figueroa/Robles combination last season), being thumped 9-1, 8-0, 6-0, 4-0 by the top 4 wasn't great either, however it must be said that it was under Martinez that we have managed to beat these teams for the first time as well.

I don't believe that he doesn't have a plan b (we just didn't see it very often) as the 3-2 comeback wins over Arsenal and West Ham were some of the best games I've seen at the DW and included tactical changes. "

 

" The list is long, but for me it's the total absence of a plan B. you can go to the game and know after 15 minutes that the tactics simply aren't working. At that point, you despair because you know there'll be another 75 minutes of the same ineffectual tactics. Einstein put it thus: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." If that's true, Señor Martínez is a bona fide loon. "

 

" His stubbornness. He will never ever have a plan b, always relying on the attractive passing style. You can bank on him never changing the players of his team whether you're 2-0 up and need to defend or 5-0 down and desperately in need of a change. "

 

 

3) What do you make of our transfer business this summer with the additions of Kone, Joel Robles, Alcaraz and Deulofeu joining the squad?

 

" Kone will be decent only because you have the players to supply him, Robles good up and coming goalie, a good replacement for Howard in the future. Alcaraz is a very good signing if he stays injury free, no idea about Deulofeu but don't expect him to play much as Martinez seems to pick up loan players and never really used them. "

 

" I think all of those players are good signings, although I have seen little of Deulofeu. Alcaraz is ridiculously underrated and one of the strongest defenders I have seen in a Wigan shirt. Kone is inconsistent and rough around the edges, but with the quality of Everton's midfield and wide players, with suppliers such as Osman, Pienaar, Baines etc, he will thrive, due to his strength and speed making him able to latch onto the quality passes and crosses they will deliver. Robles was so good for us it upsets me we didn't make more of an effort to sign him permanently. Within a few years he will be up there with the best keepers in the league. So, despite the obvious displeasure of Everton fans at his apparent over reliance on his former players I think he has strengthened the right areas, with a striker who will put them away and a centre half who can lead the defence especially if Martinez plays 3 / 5 at the back. "

 

" Koné was excellent last season, and if he can maintain that form, he'll do even better with service from Baines, Pienaar etc. Alcaraz is also superb and was our best defender by a mile when fit, but is injury prone. If he stays fit he'll be great for you. Robles commands his area well, organises his defence, and is a star in the making. Distribution and kicking are a thing of beauty at times. Like a lot of goalkeepers though (especially young ones) he seems prone to the occasional howler, but is otherwise great. I know nothing of Deulofeu... "

 

" In all honesty, whilst good players for Latics, I don't think that Kone, Alcaraz or Robles are the quality of signing that a club looking to push for a top 5/6 finish should be making. They're mid-table/upper bottom half quality. As for Deulofeu - don't expect to see sight nor sound of him. He loaned loads of "promising youngsters" whilst at Latics & hardly ever played any of them. "

 

" I'm not sure why people rate Robles so highly here - he's decent shot-stopper and probably good back up for Howard but it's the most. Not sure he has chosen the right league to play in and 5-year contract for me is a risk. He was cheap for you and it's great but I won't consider him as a great EPL keeper, even in the future. Alcaraz is a very underrated player - for me he was the best defender I ever seen in a Wigan shirt - he is outstanding and we would never win FA Cup without him. About Kone - I don't think we ever had such good natural born striker in the last 7-8 years. I feel sorry to lose these 2 guys but in all honesty they don't deserve to play in the Championship.

 

 

4) Where do you think Everton will finish? why?

 

" 12th. I think you will spend the first half of the season adapting to his style of play and the second half wondering where the defence has gone. You will win games though, you do have a better side than Wigan. "

 

" My guess would be 10th-12th. Moyes' stability was a very solid basis for the team, and is now gone. You'll probably wonder why you've gifted so many points when you could've been in the Champions league if you hadn't conceded so many silly, needless goals. "

 

"Around 12th to 8th because of the high quality of the team he has inherited. I think his stubbornness and the significant change in style will hinder your performances. If Martinez has learned anything from the mistakes he made at Wigan I would expect you to be back to European contention in a couple of years time."

 

" I think Everton will finish above mid table, your squad doesn't look to have changed much. I would say it depends on the future of Baines, and any more signings that come in. It also depends how much Martinez changes the style of play and how the players adapt to it, so I'd say 8th. "

 

" Mid-table. Season of transition. I think you're likely to lose Baines & Fellaini & I think it'll take time for their replacements to bed in & for the whole squad to adapt to Bobby's system. "

 

 

5) Was Roberto Martinez the best choice for Everton FC? if not, who was?

 

" I think the choice was, with all respect, a poor one. I think it was based on the false promises Roberto is good at making, and his way of advertising himself as a skilled manager who kept such a 'small' and 'weak' team In the league against the odds, and the way the pundits rave about him because of the attractiveness of his passing style counteracting the way it hinders a teams ability to win. "

 

" Wouldn't have been my first choice. I'd have made a play for someone experienced who could take the best of what Moyes built and fine tune, rather than reinventing the wheel (to a Barcelona style system that doesn't work unless you have talent like Messi, Iniesta, Xavi etc, When he knows he's not got much money by PL standards. "

 

" Hes capable of managing a budget so he was probably the best choice in this respect. However, he was not the best choice if you are aiming for a European place. I would have gone for Laudrup. "

 

" Time will tell. I think he got the job purely because he was seen as being able to do great things with little money. The problem is for all that his good points will be magnified at a more high profile club so will his flaws. "

 

" Everton's budget isn't as tight as Wigan's, though you appear to have quite a lot of debt hanging around. I like Bill Kenwright, he's a likeable bloke and loves Everton. Apparently so does Martinez now! lol. I did like the sound of Ralf Rangnick, he did a good job at both Hoffenheim where he transformed the club from a 3rd division minnow into a genuine solid Bundesliga side and at Schalke where he led the club to a Champions League Semi. Martinez C.V. will say he won us a Cup and you have to give him credit for that, but you also have to give him credit/blame for relegating us. He can't have one accolade without the other. But good luck. "

FFS! How prophetic. Never were truer words said

[gethinO]

From NSNO forum 3 years ago....all sounds a bit familiar.

 

http://www.nsno.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=42107.0

 

1) What do you make of Roberto Martinez? will he be a success at Everton?

 

" Difficult to say whether he'll be a success. He has a bigger budget & a better squad but he also has far bigger expectations weighing on his shoulders. I think Everton are at the peak of what they can achieve without big financial backing so the only way is down in many respects. At Latics he had very little pressure from either the fans or the chairman & got a great deal of patience even during lengthy runs of defeats. He won't get that anywhere else BUT having more money & (on paper) a better squad may be the spur he needs to show his true potential. "

 

" I don't think Martinez will replicate the same success of Moyes at Everton. Moyes seems to me like the kind of guy who is always willing to change something if it isn't working, whereas Martinez will beat a dead horse for all it is worth. This rigidity will possibly mean that Everton have periods where his attractive play decimates other teams in the league with a more primitive playing style, but then other teams will be well prepared for his often predictable ethos of focussing all possession down one flank by passing sideways across the pitch, which is easily negated by the opposition playing a wider formation. Therefore, I think under Martinez you will have absolutely blinders and then the next week absolute shockers, but never the same consistency as a manager like Moyes who can prepare a defence for the inevitability of a counter-attack started by a poor pass, which Martinez was utterly hopeless at during his time here. "

 

" Hes an eloquent speaker but will tell you what you want to hear. He is adept at avoiding difficult questions. Its far too early to say whether hell be a success at Everton but I doubt that hell do better than Moyes. He won the FA Cup with us but apart from that his cup runs were poor. "

 

" As a group, even on this site, we have very mixed opinions. Some members will wildly disagree with me, but my opinion of him isn't very good. Starting with the positives, he's a very nice bloke, total professional, and speaks well, so will be a superb ambassador for the club. He's committed to playing his idea of the beautiful game, so you'll see some beautiful attacking moves. On the down side, based on my experience, however, you'll see 87 minutes of sideways and backwards passing, interspersed with very poor defending. We weren't the best defensive team in terms of quality, but we did have some decent players, but Martínez's defensive coaching must be woeful. When things don't go to plan, you'll not see changes in tactics (or personnel until at least 80 minutes): there is no plan B. The attacking tempo is very slow and our breaks always relied on a single man, so often were stopped in their tracks. Your free kicks will be wasted with short passes when they could easily be put into the box; that's academic though since you'll rarely see more than 1 or 2 players in the box. "

 

" Success will depend on your own personal opinion. I can't see Martinez getting Everton Champions League as claimed by the man himself. Yes we won the FA Cup but he ripped that one great thing up, when he left us relegated and without a Manager. Just goes to show, modern humans are always Loyal to the £££££ notes and not the club as of old. "

 

 

2) What would you say was his biggest flaw?

 

" He's very stubborn. He has a very set way of thinking the game should be played & will often deviate from that regardless of the players he has at his disposal. I've heard a lot from Everton fans dismissing the volume of goals Latics conceded under him as being down purely to having lesser players. Some food for thought is that under Bruce, Latics had the 7th best defence in the division - with the exact same defence, within 3 & a half months of Bobby's reign they'd conceded more goals than during the whole of the previous season & that trend continued. "

 

" Martinez has many flaws . The biggest I would say is that he does not have a clue how to change a game if his plan A does not work.. He has no plan B and it is at times painful to watch . Don't forget this is the man that failed to strengthen the Wigan defence in the transfer window thus leading us to go down . "

 

 

" As has been said, defence. Over the four years he was here we conceded a lot of goals including some very embarrassing ones (see the Figueroa/Robles combination last season), being thumped 9-1, 8-0, 6-0, 4-0 by the top 4 wasn't great either, however it must be said that it was under Martinez that we have managed to beat these teams for the first time as well.

I don't believe that he doesn't have a plan b (we just didn't see it very often) as the 3-2 comeback wins over Arsenal and West Ham were some of the best games I've seen at the DW and included tactical changes. "

 

" The list is long, but for me it's the total absence of a plan B. you can go to the game and know after 15 minutes that the tactics simply aren't working. At that point, you despair because you know there'll be another 75 minutes of the same ineffectual tactics. Einstein put it thus: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." If that's true, Señor Martínez is a bona fide loon. "

 

" His stubbornness. He will never ever have a plan b, always relying on the attractive passing style. You can bank on him never changing the players of his team whether you're 2-0 up and need to defend or 5-0 down and desperately in need of a change. "

 

 

3) What do you make of our transfer business this summer with the additions of Kone, Joel Robles, Alcaraz and Deulofeu joining the squad?

 

" Kone will be decent only because you have the players to supply him, Robles good up and coming goalie, a good replacement for Howard in the future. Alcaraz is a very good signing if he stays injury free, no idea about Deulofeu but don't expect him to play much as Martinez seems to pick up loan players and never really used them. "

 

" I think all of those players are good signings, although I have seen little of Deulofeu. Alcaraz is ridiculously underrated and one of the strongest defenders I have seen in a Wigan shirt. Kone is inconsistent and rough around the edges, but with the quality of Everton's midfield and wide players, with suppliers such as Osman, Pienaar, Baines etc, he will thrive, due to his strength and speed making him able to latch onto the quality passes and crosses they will deliver. Robles was so good for us it upsets me we didn't make more of an effort to sign him permanently. Within a few years he will be up there with the best keepers in the league. So, despite the obvious displeasure of Everton fans at his apparent over reliance on his former players I think he has strengthened the right areas, with a striker who will put them away and a centre half who can lead the defence especially if Martinez plays 3 / 5 at the back. "

 

" Koné was excellent last season, and if he can maintain that form, he'll do even better with service from Baines, Pienaar etc. Alcaraz is also superb and was our best defender by a mile when fit, but is injury prone. If he stays fit he'll be great for you. Robles commands his area well, organises his defence, and is a star in the making. Distribution and kicking are a thing of beauty at times. Like a lot of goalkeepers though (especially young ones) he seems prone to the occasional howler, but is otherwise great. I know nothing of Deulofeu... "

 

" In all honesty, whilst good players for Latics, I don't think that Kone, Alcaraz or Robles are the quality of signing that a club looking to push for a top 5/6 finish should be making. They're mid-table/upper bottom half quality. As for Deulofeu - don't expect to see sight nor sound of him. He loaned loads of "promising youngsters" whilst at Latics & hardly ever played any of them. "

 

" I'm not sure why people rate Robles so highly here - he's decent shot-stopper and probably good back up for Howard but it's the most. Not sure he has chosen the right league to play in and 5-year contract for me is a risk. He was cheap for you and it's great but I won't consider him as a great EPL keeper, even in the future. Alcaraz is a very underrated player - for me he was the best defender I ever seen in a Wigan shirt - he is outstanding and we would never win FA Cup without him. About Kone - I don't think we ever had such good natural born striker in the last 7-8 years. I feel sorry to lose these 2 guys but in all honesty they don't deserve to play in the Championship.

 

 

4) Where do you think Everton will finish? why?

 

" 12th. I think you will spend the first half of the season adapting to his style of play and the second half wondering where the defence has gone. You will win games though, you do have a better side than Wigan. "

 

" My guess would be 10th-12th. Moyes' stability was a very solid basis for the team, and is now gone. You'll probably wonder why you've gifted so many points when you could've been in the Champions league if you hadn't conceded so many silly, needless goals. "

 

"Around 12th to 8th because of the high quality of the team he has inherited. I think his stubbornness and the significant change in style will hinder your performances. If Martinez has learned anything from the mistakes he made at Wigan I would expect you to be back to European contention in a couple of years time."

 

" I think Everton will finish above mid table, your squad doesn't look to have changed much. I would say it depends on the future of Baines, and any more signings that come in. It also depends how much Martinez changes the style of play and how the players adapt to it, so I'd say 8th. "

 

" Mid-table. Season of transition. I think you're likely to lose Baines & Fellaini & I think it'll take time for their replacements to bed in & for the whole squad to adapt to Bobby's system. "

 

 

5) Was Roberto Martinez the best choice for Everton FC? if not, who was?

 

" I think the choice was, with all respect, a poor one. I think it was based on the false promises Roberto is good at making, and his way of advertising himself as a skilled manager who kept such a 'small' and 'weak' team In the league against the odds, and the way the pundits rave about him because of the attractiveness of his passing style counteracting the way it hinders a teams ability to win. "

 

" Wouldn't have been my first choice. I'd have made a play for someone experienced who could take the best of what Moyes built and fine tune, rather than reinventing the wheel (to a Barcelona style system that doesn't work unless you have talent like Messi, Iniesta, Xavi etc, When he knows he's not got much money by PL standards. "

 

" Hes capable of managing a budget so he was probably the best choice in this respect. However, he was not the best choice if you are aiming for a European place. I would have gone for Laudrup. "

 

" Time will tell. I think he got the job purely because he was seen as being able to do great things with little money. The problem is for all that his good points will be magnified at a more high profile club so will his flaws. "

 

" Everton's budget isn't as tight as Wigan's, though you appear to have quite a lot of debt hanging around. I like Bill Kenwright, he's a likeable bloke and loves Everton. Apparently so does Martinez now! lol. I did like the sound of Ralf Rangnick, he did a good job at both Hoffenheim where he transformed the club from a 3rd division minnow into a genuine solid Bundesliga side and at Schalke where he led the club to a Champions League Semi. Martinez C.V. will say he won us a Cup and you have to give him credit for that, but you also have to give him credit/blame for relegating us. He can't have one accolade without the other. But good luck. "

Scary how true that is. Just sums up his time here perfectly. Stubborn, incredibly positive, not a lot of work on set pieces, woeful defending, no plan B, some good attacking displays but no consistency, sideways passing.

[Romey 1878]

Haha just read my post again and I can't understand it .

 

I am so pissed off today after watching that pitiful performance.

Where are our club captains?

Where are the senior players?

Where is the will to win?

 

We should get rid of the manager and the players.

 

Get a Vierra or a Keane.

Someone who will fight for his team and his team mates.

 

Shukes, I can't tell you how deflated I felt sitting in Goodison yesterday. I actually felt like leaving with 20 minutes to go. I can handle defeat and accept it, but to watch players stroll about and not give a shit? It's unacceptable.

[chalkpie]

Where I am with Martinez now is that I'm thinking to myself...if it was me, I'd be going back to that first season in charge, looking at how good it was and asking the players who have been around in both eras (Howard, Jags, Coleman, Baines, Ossie, Pienaar, Gibson, not Barkley or Stones...Too young!)...what have I done that has changed us from that first season? What part of my 'philosophy' has caused an issue? At the end of the day, this is pretty much the same set of players that he had back then.

 

I'm frustrated with Martinez. Really frustrated. Because I believe he has the ability...but we are seeing and saying the same things over and over.

 

We've seen this team deliver some exceptional performances this season. Which gives you hope. But then we see the same mistakes time and again. And I've always said that it is important to me that we see some evolution...well we are in terms of attacking play, buy we aren't in terms of defensive play. And we aren't in terms of playing at home. And, as it stands, we aren't in terms of getting the points that our play deserves. There's only so many times in a season you can call a ref's decision, a linesman's decision, an injury, a bit of bad luck...it wears thin.

 

Martinez needs to evolve himself. The potential is there, no doubt. But he needs to start showing that he, we, are learning from these games. Not just for 1 or 2 games at a time, but consistently.

 

As for the players, well, I start wondering if they really are the top 4 quality that they keep going on about. And I wonder if they are believing too much in the hype. But that's another story.

 

I'm not interested in scoring personal points with anyone over Martinez. If he proves not to be good enough, then so be it. He gets sacked. Whatever is best for the club comes well above my personal opinions.

 

As I've said all along, we'll see at the end of the season. It could still end up being a good season just as much as it could end up being a poor season. I still find that quite bizarre to be honest, quite a unique situation that I can't remember feeling before with Everton!!!

 

Newt - I agree with basically all of this except for the part of waiting for the rest of the season. When is Roberto going to evolve? I'm still waiting. We would have to win EVERY match we play (think about that statement) and other teams will basically have to lose just as many in order for us to get to a point where we would consider ourselves in a very good place. Its like - "OK - Ladies and Gentlemen - starting March 20, 2016 is when Roberto Martinez as a manager makes everything happen and shows what he is truly made of; I hope you're ready!!!!". Too little, too late for me I'm afraid. Do I want it to happen for the good of the club? Of course. Do I think it will happen? After watching that mare yesterday, no flippin' way. He is way out of his realm now. He doesn't inspire, we could all see that with our own eyes yesterday. A manager with confidence and holding the respect of the team would have at least had that team running around at extra capacity yesterday, trying their absolute best......not that piece of sheepshite that we witnessed. I dunno. The very fact that here we are talking about it again and again and again and again to me seems to be the answer of whether he is the right guy or not. Gotta be honest, the reign of Roberto Martinez from September 2014 until March 2016 has been largely abysmal, and we have the stats to back that statement up. 50% erudite and 50% clueless as a total synergy doesn't work for a manager in the Premier League, and that (I believe) is the type of manager we currently have.

[MC11]

Where I am with Martinez now is that I'm thinking to myself...if it was me, I'd be going back to that first season in charge, looking at how good it was and asking the players who have been around in both eras (Howard, Jags, Coleman, Baines, Ossie, Pienaar, Gibson, not Barkley or Stones...Too young!)...what have I done that has changed us from that first season? What part of my 'philosophy' has caused an issue? At the end of the day, this is pretty much the same set of players that he had back then.

 

I'm frustrated with Martinez. Really frustrated. Because I believe he has the ability...but we are seeing and saying the same things over and over.

 

We've seen this team deliver some exceptional performances this season. Which gives you hope. But then we see the same mistakes time and again. And I've always said that it is important to me that we see some evolution...well we are in terms of attacking play, buy we aren't in terms of defensive play. And we aren't in terms of playing at home. And, as it stands, we aren't in terms of getting the points that our play deserves. There's only so many times in a season you can call a ref's decision, a linesman's decision, an injury, a bit of bad luck...it wears thin.

 

Martinez needs to evolve himself. The potential is there, no doubt. But he needs to start showing that he, we, are learning from these games. Not just for 1 or 2 games at a time, but consistently.

 

As for the players, well, I start wondering if they really are the top 4 quality that they keep going on about. And I wonder if they are believing too much in the hype. But that's another story.

 

I'm not interested in scoring personal points with anyone over Martinez. If he proves not to be good enough, then so be it. He gets sacked. Whatever is best for the club comes well above my personal opinions.

 

As I've said all along, we'll see at the end of the season. It could still end up being a good season just as much as it could end up being a poor season. I still find that quite bizarre to be honest, quite a unique situation that I can't remember feeling before with Everton!!!

Tbh I'm fed up of you and some others saying the same shit as last season. You said this all last season and are now saying it again 12 months later. Believe me it's the same old horse shit. Another 12 months on will you be saying this.... Of course you will.

[chalkpie]

MC - Everybody here is entitled to their own opinion, so its pointless to get "fed up" with anybody, other than folks who are actually in charge. We can discuss, have debates, agree or disagree, but we as fans have ZERO control whether Martinez stays or not, so you are barking up the wrong tree mate. I don't necessarily agree that we should wait until the end of the season either, but we as Evertonians ultimately have to stick together, respect each other, and hope the correct decisions are made by the bigwigs. Direct your anger towards the board, Kenwright, and Moshiri. We are all passionate about this club, and we all have the right to express ourselves in any way we want. That's what made The United States of America so great, our founding fathers here had ......er.......umm.......uhhh.........whoops.......

 

You dig?

[MC11]

MC - Everybody here is entitled to their own opinion, so its pointless to get "fed up" with anybody, other than folks who are actually in charge. We can discuss, have debates, agree or disagree, but we as fans have ZERO control whether Martinez stays or not, so you are barking up the wrong tree mate. I don't necessarily agree that we should wait until the end of the season either, but we as Evertonians ultimately have to stick together, respect each other, and hope the correct decisions are made by the bigwigs. Direct your anger towards the board, Kenwright, and Moshiri. We are all passionate about this club, and we all have the right to express ourselves in any way we want. That's what made The United States of America so great, our founding fathers here had ......er.......umm.......uhhh.........whoops.......

 

You dig?

Saying give him until the summer, Christmas etc etc 12 months on though? This was all said last year - I don't see any improvement, yet people want to keep hoping.

 

We're holding out for cups. The league form is atrocious. This is papered over by a couple of wins in between. He needs gone and there's nothing more to it. There won't be an improvement. We lack serious consistency and that's what you need to be competing for EUROPE!

[Mogsy]

Saying give him until the summer, Christmas etc etc 12 months on though? This was all said last year - I don't see any improvement, yet people want to keep hoping.

We're holding out for cups. The league form is atrocious. This is papered over by a couple of wins in between. He needs gone and there's nothing more to it. There won't be an improvement. We lack serious consistency and that's what you need to be competing for EUROPE!

100% agree, we will never compete at the top end of the league and Europe with Martinez in charge, we need a manager who is experienced in top level football, who has managed at a higher level, let other clubs employ the up and coming managers, let's go for an older more experienced manager!

[Newty82]

 

Newt - I agree with basically all of this except for the part of waiting for the rest of the season. When is Roberto going to evolve? I'm still waiting. We would have to win EVERY match we play (think about that statement) and other teams will basically have to lose just as many in order for us to get to a point where we would consider ourselves in a very good place. Its like - "OK - Ladies and Gentlemen - starting March 20, 2016 is when Roberto Martinez as a manager makes everything happen and shows what he is truly made of; I hope you're ready!!!!". Too little, too late for me I'm afraid. Do I want it to happen for the good of the club? Of course. Do I think it will happen? After watching that mare yesterday, no flippin' way. He is way out of his realm now. He doesn't inspire, we could all see that with our own eyes yesterday. A manager with confidence and holding the respect of the team would have at least had that team running around at extra capacity yesterday, trying their absolute best......not that piece of sheepshite that we witnessed. I dunno. The very fact that here we are talking about it again and again and again and again to me seems to be the answer of whether he is the right guy or not. Gotta be honest, the reign of Roberto Martinez from September 2014 until March 2016 has been largely abysmal, and we have the stats to back that statement up. 50% erudite and 50% clueless as a total synergy doesn't work for a manager in the Premier League, and that (I believe) is the type of manager we currently have.

Yeah. I understand what you're saying. And you know what Chalkpie, it's good to have opposite views to someone but still be able to chat away in an amicable manner.

 

And that post Lowensda posted (won't quote it...takes up half a page!) makes quite an impact.

 

Why wait until the end of the season? Well, for me...because I've said it all along. Plus we still have the FA Cup...which is very important to us considering we've won nothing for 20 years...and, factually, we could still finish in a decent place. I've gone over this already.

 

And if your reading this and your the type of person who doesn't like it...tough shit. It's a forum where everyone has their own views. If you can't handle people having different views to you...go sit in a little room and chat away to yourself.

 

Nobody knows for sure how this season will end. There's a big difference between finishing 6th and winning FA cup and finishing 12th with nothing. One keeps you your job for sure, the other almost certainly loses you your job. Anything in between should be reviewed on its own basis.

 

My honest thoughts just now? Roberto has a fight on his hands to keep his job. The balls in his park as they say.

[Hafnia]

Whatever happens now I'd be prone to get rid in the summer.

 

You may know from my irritation with players "I don't care how good you can be but how often you are good"

 

Martinez is the creator of his own downfall.

 

I would be doing major major work in seeing what managers are out there.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Moyes was always going to be a tough act to follow but there is no doubt that Martinez has taken us backwards. Our form at Goodison is absolutely shocking and he deserves the boot for that alone

With the squad we have even Mike Basset would manage to get us in the top half

[StevO]

For me, if we lose the semi, he should be fired straight away. Him, and the players, need to know what is acceptable. Look at United with Moyes, the minute they could not qualify for the champions league they fired him. The minute we can't win the cup and qualify for Europe he should be gone. Then tell the players that is the standard. Win games, perform well, compete for trophies, or get gone.

 

But the players will leave before the manager.

[Shukes]

 

Shukes, I can't tell you how deflated I felt sitting in Goodison yesterday. I actually felt like leaving with 20 minutes to go. I can handle defeat and accept it, but to watch players stroll about and not give a shit? It's unacceptable.

I'm with you mate honestly.

 

I don't mean to sound like I'm sticking up for Martinez because I'm not. I just can't stand seeing players getting millions for strolling around.

 

In my job, my boss would sack me for that level of effort.

[MikeO]

I'm with you mate honestly.

 

I don't mean to sound like I'm sticking up for Martinez because I'm not. I just can't stand seeing players getting millions for strolling around.

 

In my job, my boss would sack me for that level of effort.

 

So would mine; and she'd probably divorce me as well .

[Sibdane]

For me, if we lose the semi, he should be fired straight away. Him, and the players, need to know what is acceptable. Look at United with Moyes, the minute they could not qualify for the champions league they fired him. The minute we can't win the cup and qualify for Europe he should be gone. Then tell the players that is the standard. Win games, perform well, compete for trophies, or get gone.

 

But the players will leave before the manager.

I hate to say it but i think both the players and the manager forgot what the standards are for this club.

 

Mou is excellent manager, but Chelsea let him go, because he wasn't performing and Chelsea was in relegation territory. Now they're above us (with a game to play).

 

Bar a miraculous finish to the season and a cup win, this season will be another disappointment.

[Romey 1878]

I hate to say it but i think both the players and the manager forgot what the standards are for this club.

Mou is excellent manager, but Chelsea let him go, because he wasn't performing and Chelsea was in relegation territory. Now they're above us (with a game to play).

Bar a miraculous finish to the season and a cup win, this season will be another disappointment.

They've forgotten what the standards are because the higher ups have set no standards for them to meet. Hopefully with Moshiri now on board there will be standards that are expected to be met and it made clear that if they aren't met there will be consequences.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/roberto-martinez-heading-unwanted-history-11068944

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/performances-like-everton-fcs-pitiful-11066983

[MikeO]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/roberto-martinez-heading-unwanted-history-11068944

 

Contradicting himself there a bit when he holds up 93/94 as the worst season ever, then gives Kendall as an example of a man who learns from his mistakes before later pointing out that Kendall was actually the manager for the first half of that dire season; resigning in early December when we had a 7-3-8 record having scored twenty goals in eighteen games and lost four times at Goodison.

 

But then people will use any weapon at hand to beat Martinez with currently, logic is out of the window.

[MikeO]

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/performances-like-everton-fcs-pitiful-11066983

 

Wouldn't disagree with that one.

[Newty82]

 

Contradicting himself there a bit when he holds up 93/94 as the worst season ever, then gives Kendall as an example of a man who learns from his mistakes before later pointing out that Kendall was actually the manager for the first half of that dire season; resigning in early December when we had a 7-3-8 record having scored twenty goals in eighteen games and lost four times at Goodison.

 

But then people will use any weapon at hand to beat Martinez with currently, logic is out of the window.

Ah! Glad I'm not the only one who seen that and thought it was a contradiction. Exactly my thoughts.

 

Got to be honest MikeO, I'm struggling to keep this support of Martinez in tact. My mind keeps bouncing all over the place!

 

You've mentioned Kendall 80's era a few times, I was only born in 82 so it has no memories for me, how long did it take for Kendal to 'click'?

[MikeO]

Ah! Glad I'm not the only one who seen that and thought it was a contradiction. Exactly my thoughts.

 

Got to be honest MikeO, I'm struggling to keep this support of Martinez in tact. My mind keeps bouncing all over the place!

 

You've mentioned Kendall 80's era a few times, I was only born in 82 so it has no memories for me, how long did it take for Kendal to 'click'?

 

He took over in May '81 so it was about two and a half seasons.

 

I don't like to keep bringing it up because times are different obviously but, for the final time, if all you lads (and the internet) were around at the end of '83 then the current clamour for Martinez to go would seem like a vicar's tea party compared to the opprobrium Howard suffered back then. What would have happened had the (vast) majority got their way? Who knows.

 

But I kept the faith back then, when I was probably one in a hundred, and at the moment I'm keeping it now (though it's not limitless) when I'm maybe one in ten or twenty.

 

Compared to the dross we were serving up back then we were Barcelona yesterday, no exaggeration.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

Contradicting himself there a bit when he holds up 93/94 as the worst season ever, then gives Kendall as an example of a man who learns from his mistakes before later pointing out that Kendall was actually the manager for the first half of that dire season; resigning in early December when we had a 7-3-8 record having scored twenty goals in eighteen games and lost four times at Goodison.

 

But then people will use any weapon at hand to beat Martinez with currently, logic is out of the window.

It doesn't detract from the fact that this is already one of the worst seasons in Evertons history when it comes to home form

With a record like that Bobby really couldn't have any complaints if he got his marching orders in the summer

[MikeO]

It doesn't detract from the fact that this is already one of the worst seasons in Evertons history when it comes to home form

With a record like that Bobby really couldn't have any complaints if he got his marching orders in the summer

 

I don't disagree with that either, I just think it was a poorly thought out and contradictory article.

[Newty82]

 

He took over in May '81 so it was about two and a half seasons.

 

I don't like to keep bringing it up because times are different obviously but, for the final time, if all you lads (and the internet) were around at the end of '83 then the current clamour for Martinez to go would seem like a vicar's tea party compared to the opprobrium Howard suffered back then. What would have happened had the (vast) majority got their way? Who knows.

 

But I kept the faith back then, when I was probably one in a hundred, and at the moment I'm keeping it now (though it's not limitless) when I'm maybe one in ten or twenty.

 

Compared to the dross we were serving up back then we were Barcelona yesterday, no exaggeration.

I don't think it is 1 in 10 or 20...I think it's a close divide.

 

The attendances at GP suggest a lot of fans still want to watch us play. They haven't dwindled in a way you'd expect when the fan base is supposed to be majorly unhappy. Aston Villa, as an extreme example, have an unhappy fan base and their attendances as the season has gone on has shown this.

[MikeO]

I don't think it is 1 in 10 or 20...I think it's a close divide.

 

The attendances at GP suggest a lot of fans still want to watch us play. They haven't dwindled in a way you'd expect when the fan base is supposed to be majorly unhappy. Aston Villa, as an extreme example, have an unhappy fan base and their attendances as the season has gone on has shown this.

 

Maybe so; I'm judging it on internet warriors .

[StevO]

Newty, don't forget we have almost 30,000 season ticket holders. Doesn't matter how bad it is, if you've paid for the ticket already most will still turn up. Villa took a few years on the decline with no sign of hope before their fans started to give up en mass.