Martinez - Direction?

[Lowensda]

Read a great article yesterday about how Martinez's position as manager, will determine who exactly has the power now in the boardroom.

 

If Martinez stays, loses the semi and somehow keeps his tenure (even after the summer). Bill seemingly still has the overall say of the on-the-field activity.

 

If he goes, maybe it signifies that Moshiri (as a man of ambition and success) is the guy who has over riding say in ALL matters of Everton Football Club, not just the commercial or 'money man' we're led to believe.

 

It's certainly an interesting observation. One I hope, we'll have more clarity on in the coming weeks.

[markjazzbassist]

Read a great article yesterday about how Martinez's position as manager, will determine who exactly has the power now in the boardroom.

 

If Martinez stays, loses the semi and somehow keeps his tenure (even after the summer). Bill seemingly still has the overall say of the on-the-field activity.

 

If he goes, maybe it signifies that Moshiri (as a man of ambition and success) is the guy who has over riding say in ALL matters of Everton Football Club, not just the commercial or 'money man' we're led to believe.

 

It's certainly an interesting observation. One I hope, we'll have more clarity on in the coming weeks.

Yes it will be interesting to see.

[Shukes]

We need more players to look at the whole picture like Baines has.

We need our senior players to stand up now.

These are the ones who are meant to be leaders in the squad, these are the ones who should be leading by example and dragging the young ones through.

 

We are not machines, we are not cattle...we are Everton!

[Newty82]

Stop being rational Newt! Its overrated.

Haha. It sure is! Must admit it feels better to rant and get it off the chest!!!

 

Baines comments were interesting. Nobody in interviews seems to be able to nail what exactly is wrong. Each player seems to have their own angle. Which makes me wonder if they don't want to say what they really want to say...if you get me? Or they are just genuinely mystified!!!

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/roberto-martinez-could-new-boss-11138822

[Romey 1878]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/roberto-martinez-could-new-boss-11138822

We're not that lucky.

[Lowensda]

HE might actually be able to implement his style of football, with players who can actually play like it.

 

Be best for all parties.

[AlbanyNYToffee]

If Baines has come out and said that there's obviously deeper lying issues within the squad. Under Motes there was always a natural bond that you could see all over the pitch players like Cahill where the integral part of this a long with Moyes himself. The sooner Martinez is gone the better. He's stinking the place out.

Kudos to those of you who have been calling for RM to be gone the past few months. Baines' comments are enlightening and the straw that broke the camels back for me. I am a firm believer chemistry is more important than tactics. Talent, chemistry, tactics. Look at Leicester, look at SAF reign etc. Passion and team spirit are the most important things to me as a fan. Don't have it, don't think it's coming back under RM. RM out.

[Hafnia]

Kudos to those of you who have been calling for RM to be gone the past few months. Baines' comments are enlightening and the straw that broke the camels back for me. I am a firm believer chemistry is more important than tactics. Talent, chemistry, tactics. Look at Leicester, look at SAF reign etc. Passion and team spirit are the most important things to me as a fan. Don't have it, don't think it's coming back under RM. RM out.

 

I don't think its a case of Kudos - its been a case of tolerances. I was quite prepared to allow him to make mistakes and learn - to kind of be a little bit proud in his obvious hurt and know in his heart that despite painting a different picture in his interviews he was addressing the issues that we were seeing.

 

Many didn't want him to start with, many got irritated by his overly positive rose tinted glasses. I kinda wanted to see how he would evolve.

 

To me he has insulted the people who support Everton - how dare he think that he can continue to tell us black is white. I've gone from liking the bloke and having respect for him to just wanting him gone now. I don't think he actually is hurting - I think he believes that the players can't do what he wants them to do and its not his fault.

[markjazzbassist]

 

I don't think its a case of Kudos - its been a case of tolerances. I was quite prepared to allow him to make mistakes and learn - to kind of be a little bit proud in his obvious hurt and know in his heart that despite painting a different picture in his interviews he was addressing the issues that we were seeing.

 

Many didn't want him to start with, many got irritated by his overly positive rose tinted glasses. I kinda wanted to see how he would evolve.

 

To me he has insulted the people who support Everton - how dare he think that he can continue to tell us black is white. I've gone from liking the bloke and having respect for him to just wanting him gone now. I don't think he actually is hurting - I think he believes that the players can't do what he wants them to do and its not his fault.

 

spot on. none of the RM bashers wanted to be proved right, i backed him from the begining and wanted him when moyes left. very sad to be proved right.

[Matt]

 

I don't think its a case of Kudos - its been a case of tolerances. I was quite prepared to allow him to make mistakes and learn - to kind of be a little bit proud in his obvious hurt and know in his heart that despite painting a different picture in his interviews he was addressing the issues that we were seeing.

 

Many didn't want him to start with, many got irritated by his overly positive rose tinted glasses. I kinda wanted to see how he would evolve.

 

To me he has insulted the people who support Everton - how dare he think that he can continue to tell us black is white. I've gone from liking the bloke and having respect for him to just wanting him gone now. I don't think he actually is hurting - I think he believes that the players can't do what he wants them to do and its not his fault.

this for me

[dlblue]

 

I don't think its a case of Kudos - its been a case of tolerances. I was quite prepared to allow him to make mistakes and learn - to kind of be a little bit proud in his obvious hurt and know in his heart that despite painting a different picture in his interviews he was addressing the issues that we were seeing.

 

Many didn't want him to start with, many got irritated by his overly positive rose tinted glasses. I kinda wanted to see how he would evolve.

 

To me he has insulted the people who support Everton - how dare he think that he can continue to tell us black is white. I've gone from liking the bloke and having respect for him to just wanting him gone now. I don't think he actually is hurting - I think he believes that the players can't do what he wants them to do and its not his fault.

 

Agreed.

 

Iv been a Martinez supporter until the last 6 weeks. I wanted to see how we would evolve too as i think he has done some things right off the pitch but our performances, the spirit, results have been terrible. The investment was the key for me also, as before the thought of the usual managers names being thrown about was sickening, now i think we can attract much better. the next 3 games are massive and i think he will be gone before the Derby or just after. After recent displays i cant see us winning any of our next few games.

[EFC-Paul]

Good post Haf and fully agree

 

I'm fairly sure those behind the scenes can see and sense the animosity and bad vibe building around the place from most angles and as said previously it will be interesting to see how things pan out and who has the "power" since Moshiri's arrival

 

Ideal situation is we win the cup and he moves on which won't happen if he brings in silverware, its a poisoned chalice in a sense for me and in all honesty I can't see us getting past United or WestHam

 

My biggest worry is Kenwright if he has his head as far up Martinez's arse as that cringy interview made out I think we'll be in for another season of "phenomenal" football

[Hafnia]

I feel sort of sorry in a way for Kenwright. He would be desperate for Martinez to work out. No one wants one of their hires to be shit - it reflects on them.

 

Bill got the right man in with Moyes but kept him too long imo. The best thing he can do is work with moshiri to get a top manager in - sell Everton to them, let moshiri talk numbers and budgets/ 5 year plan etc.

 

You could see how desperate SAF was to see Moyes work out at United - his parting gift was a manager who was out of his depth...

Edited April 5, 2016 by Hafnia

[EFC-Paul]

I feel sort of sorry in a way for Kenwright. He would be desperate for Martinez to work out. No one wants one of their hires to be shit - it reflects on them.

 

Bill got the right man in with Moyes but kept him too long imo. The best thing he can do is work with moshiri to get a top manager in - sell Everton to them, let moshiri talk numbers and budgets/ 5 year plan etc.

 

You could see how desperate SAF was to see Moyes work out at United - his parting gift was a manager who was out of his depth...

I don't feel an ounce of sympathy for Kenwright in that regard its his call and any failings should rightly fall for the most part on his shoulders

 

Im not bashing Bill but if he genuinely holds him in such high regard after nigh on two seasons of this shite then I hope he has very little say and sway on anything in the future

[Hafnia]

I don't feel an ounce of sympathy for Kenwright in that regard its his call and any failings should rightly fall for the most part on his shoulders

 

Im not bashing Bill but if he genuinely holds him in such high regard after nigh on two seasons of this shite then I hope he has very little say and sway on anything in the future

Sympathy will quickly turn to anger if he fails to recognise that the manager needs to go.

[efc1111]

Best case scenario is Bobby leads us to FA Cup victory and then is head-hunted to manage Spain, leaving Moshiri to hire a top manager to replace him.

[MikeO]

Best case scenario is Bobby leads us to FA Cup victory and then is head-hunted to manage Spain, leaving Moshiri to hire a top manager to replace him.

 

Has Moshiri ever recruited a manager (good or bad)? Not as far as I can see.

 

If it comes to this I hope you're right but he has zero record in it so I don't really understand why people think he's going to be an instant panacea.

[Hafnia]

 

Has Moshiri ever recruited a manager (good or bad)? Not as far as I can see.

 

If it comes to this I hope you're right but he has zero record in it so I don't really understand why people think he's going to be an instant panacea.

I tend to think that he's a man who understands how to get the right person to do important jobs. If they are not right, them off they go.

 

I think Roberto must have felt a bit comfortable with Bill. I feel that he got a bit carried away with himself, he's doing poor old Everton a favour .. all of a sudden boom. A big boy is in town... time to shape up... too late. Players are fucked off.

[Newty82]

 

Has Moshiri ever recruited a manager (good or bad)? Not as far as I can see.

 

If it comes to this I hope you're right but he has zero record in it so I don't really understand why people think he's going to be an instant panacea.

This is a good point.

 

We are yet again jumping well ahead of ourselves and assuming that Moshiri will be bang on with his own selection.

 

Has Moshiri ever run a football club?

 

We all assume that Moshiri will sack Martinez and lead us onto great success. How do you know he won't sack Martinez, appoint a new guy, give him a load of cash to throw at transfers, and it all turns out a bit Aston Villa? A bit Newcastle? A bit Leeds?

 

I can't disagree with the arguments against Martinez. And i dont anymore to be honest. But there's no guarantee that the next move will be a better one.

 

I'm causiously excited and nervous by the next phase. We are about to enter into the total unknown.

 

We're all a bit like a fat kid in a cake shop just now. With a bit of headless chicken thrown in.

[EFC-Paul]

He's been a large part of one of the richest clubs in world football I'm not saying he'll do the hiring and firing but he will no doubt have a network of very savvy and astute men who will help him along his way

 

You don't sell major shares in a massively successful company/club to take on a new one with bags of potential to see it lingering or in limbo... time is money

 

I know we don't know the structure fully and how much influence he will have but I'm not taking his business acumen lightly and that to me personally will mean he won't be happy with the way things look and will hopefully either demand/request changes or make them himself

[MikeO]

He's been a large part of one of the richest clubs in world football I'm not saying he'll do the hiring and firing but he will no doubt have a network of very savvy and astute men who will help him along his way

 

You don't sell major shares in a massively successful company/club to take on a new one with bags of potential to see it lingering or in limbo... time is money

 

I know we don't know the structure fully and how much influence he will have but I'm not taking his business acumen lightly and that to me personally will mean he won't be happy with the way things look and will hopefully either demand/request changes or make them himself

 

I don't want business acumen, I want football knowledge.

 

Old fashioned view perhaps.

[chalkpie]

 

We all assume that Moshiri will sack Martinez and lead us onto great success. How do you know he won't sack Martinez, appoint a new guy, give him a load of cash to throw at transfers, and it all turns out a bit Aston Villa? A bit Newcastle? A bit Leeds?

 

 

Good question that nobody can answer, even if we had Pep Fuckin Guardiola and Messi/Neymar/Suarez. OK, maybe we could answer that one.

 

Bottom line, when you look at the big picture - the fans, Baines comment, the slugs-on-Valium energy on the pitch, the tens of thousands of unhappy EFC fans, the shite record, etc etc, you hblowingave to pull the trigger. You won't know until we're in the moment. Was sacking Brendan Rogers the right thing to do? I honestly still have no idea, Klopp seems OK , not mindblowing, however there is more positivity in the fans, players, playing approach so maybe it was the right move?

 

But my gut tells me the odds we would be WORSE next season with new management is pretty slim. IMO.

[MikeO]

But my gut tells me the odds we would be WORSE next season with new management is pretty slim. IMO.

 

And we could have a brilliant first season under a new guy and all think he was the answer to all our prayers.

 

Like we did two years back.

[chalkpie]

 

And we could have a brilliant first season under a new guy and all think he was the answer to all our prayers.

 

Like we did two years back.

 

Very true.

[markjazzbassist]

This is a good point.

 

We are yet again jumping well ahead of ourselves and assuming that Moshiri will be bang on with his own selection.

 

Has Moshiri ever run a football club?

 

We all assume that Moshiri will sack Martinez and lead us onto great success. How do you know he won't sack Martinez, appoint a new guy, give him a load of cash to throw at transfers, and it all turns out a bit Aston Villa? A bit Newcastle? A bit Leeds?

 

I can't disagree with the arguments against Martinez. And i dont anymore to be honest. But there's no guarantee that the next move will be a better one.

 

I'm causiously excited and nervous by the next phase. We are about to enter into the total unknown.

 

We're all a bit like a fat kid in a cake shop just now. With a bit of headless chicken thrown in.

Good point but some clarity. Lerner doesn't have business knowledge because he inherited everything from his father. He's a rich kid. His father was a decent owner who owned my hometown nfl Cleveland Browns. He died in 2002 and Randy got all of Al's money and bought himself villa in 2006.

Moshiri is a self made man. Went from normal dude to running a rich Russians investments to becoming his business partner. That right there shows one of things. He's corrupt as a motherfucker like the rest of these Russians or he is a very smart and talented individual. I think it's the latter

[Newty82]

I'm not completely knocking moshiri at all. Nowhere near. Just raising the question. By the responses, you can see the assumptions straight away. And that's my point. In terms of being part of a successful Arsenal, his only involvement has been to own half of Red and White holdings...which eventually owned 29-30% of shares. He has jist been snspping up shares. All the work on the Emirates, titles won etc was complete by the time he got involved. Again, not dissing him, just saying he's unproven. The reason he has sold up and come to us is that he wants to have a go, doesn't he?

 

Plenty of business men with plenty of links and networks have took over football clubs and struggled. It's a simple proven fact. Not opinion, not hearsay, not twitter rumour...actual fact.

 

Not saying he will be a mess, not saying he won't. Hoping he'll be a success, obviously. Just saying let's just stay grounded and see what happens before making all these assumptions.

 

But then again, if we did that...we'd have nothing to talk about!!! Haha.

[Hafnia]

 

And we could have a brilliant first season under a new guy and all think he was the answer to all our prayers.

 

Like we did two years back.

Thing is Mike, I was on the same bus as you with the kendall 83 comparisons.

 

Thing is... kendall learned from his errors. He addressed his mistakes - Martinez appears to have no idea what he is doing any more. The alarm bells rang when 2-0 up at home to West ham and he took a midfielder off for a new half fit striker... fucking insanity. We've seen him do odd things before - that was negligence.

 

For me it was a defining moment in his Everton job. It was like a pilot safely flying his plane into land on auto pilot after a nice flight and he then thought "let's go manual and try a couple of maneuvers"... passengers being sick, alarms going. They get off the plane and think "I'm not flying again"

[Chach]

I'm still tipping us to finish 8th and win the cup

[dlblue]

Moshiri may have never hired a manager directly but being part of a successful club for so long and being a successful business man i imagine he has the right contacts. Its a completely different proposition now, Bill recruited managers who would be easy to get along with, happy to work on a budget etc and help us plod along. I get the feeling Moshiri will not want that anymore.

 

The way things are going under Martinez we could easily be Newcastle or Villa next year. Newcastle left it too late before making a change and appointing a good manager (benitez) and it looks as though they will pay a very big price for it!

 

I really hope we win the cup as its been far too long but at the same time i think that would buy Martinez more time.