Martinez - Direction?

[markjazzbassist]

 

Off topic but I read earlier that they only have a 14% win rate when Payet doesn't play, 50% when he does. They could crumble if he moves on.

 

yes he is their whole squad. i'll be interested to see how much a week they offer him so he doesn't leave to go to a bigger club in the summer.

[dlblue]

The only thing I read on this topic that I find myself disagreeing with are the calls to sack him now...we still have an FA Cup to go for and we'd all love to fun that. And we have 24 points to go for. So sacking him now will do nothing for us when we still have something to go at.

 

 

I actually think sacking him now would do us better moving forward this season. My opinion is he has lost the players and him going just before the Semi final could be just what we need.

[Shukes]

We are going through a really tough period this season. The players are suffering, the manager is suffering and the fans are suffering.

 

This is affecting the way we play and the results we are seeing.

We dont have players with hearts of iron, we have players with hearts of gold.

Because of this we play and rely too much on confidence, you can see it on players faces and in thier body language.

 

Martinez is trying to be his usual ultra confident self because he believes he needs to for his players. Again, because of this he is making so many mistakes. From his mouth to his tactics.

 

Playing great football didn't work.

Now we're trying to be more solid and it's uninspiring and dull. Is that Martinez actually trying? I don't know, but it could be.

Is Martinez a clown? No he isn't, he is just a guy trying his best and failing. Are we giving him to much stick? No, he deserves the criticism, but he also deserves some respect for trying to breath the beautiful game into our players lungs.

 

Should we wait until the end of the season and let the club speak? Of course we should. We are not going to sack him before the season finishes, so let's see what he can do.

[chalkpie]

 

Off topic but I read earlier that they only have a 14% win rate when Payet doesn't play, 50% when he does. They could crumble if he moves on.

 

I wish Payet played for us.

[London Blue]

 

I wish Payet played for us.

He nearly did.

[Hafnia]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/kevin-ratcliffe-leighton-baines-right-11155264?

[markjazzbassist]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/kevin-ratcliffe-leighton-baines-right-11155264?

 

everyone has caught on. roberto facing more intense scrutiny by the day. glad the echo is looking into all this.

[MikeO]

Lol, you give advice on debating and throw out straw man after straw man.

Hilarious.

 

Had to research that (actually someone did most of it for me ) because I didn't understand what it meant; but I think you might just have got to the root of Haf's method of argument on here, particularly in the Lukaku thread.

 

Nothing against Haf, big contributor and valued member, just an interesting observation.

 

(Always said you should be in politics mate )

[chalkpie]

How's he gonna dance his way out of this one?

[Hafnia]

Ha ha if it was true then fair enough - it's not really, there may be examples but that counts for everyone. there are a good number of straw man merchants on here.

 

Example 1:- yesterday I proposed that moyes and Martinez play the game according to their footballing personalities with a good old chip on their shoulder. Martinez having the arrogance of his pure tiki taka beliefs.

 

Chach responded with quoting the names of the clubs he played for.

 

A straw man argument is replying to a debate with a point that has no bearing on the main topic.

 

Me:- "I think lukaku is a technically poor footballer with a bad touch"

 

Another:- "He's scored 20 goals he's shit isn't he"

 

Straw man right there. I never said he's shit and his goal record isn't what I was talking about. That happens all the time.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Hafnia

[MikeO]

Ha ha if it was true then fair enough - it's not really, there may be examples but that counts for everyone. there are a good number of straw man merchants on here.

 

There may be others but you are the master Haf!

 

And I learned something new today, so all good . Thanks Chach.

[chalkpie]

You know what we all need right now? A proper lovefest.

 

We'll light a bonfire, all hold hands, and sing Everton chants and maybe even some old songs during the American revolution before you lost. Baines and Martinez can show up and do some slow dances together to Glenn Miller. MarkJazzBassist can bring his basses, Mike and MC can play bongos together, Newt can bring the Italian bread, Hafnia can bring the toaster, Matt, Shukes, Romey can bring the salsa and birthday cake, Lukaku can bring some money, and the rest of you can bring the beer, tequila, and your speedo swimtrunks. I'll bring the ham and lawn chairs. Lowensda - it wouldn't hurt if you bring some sheep too - preferably unshaved - I was thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of the 120 - 3,740 range. Everyone's invited (except the wives), even Naismith, and then we'll all head over Moshiri's place afterwards for some scones and coffee and watch all Everton home matches we've won at Goodison in the past 2 years. You should be home by 11:30 latest. Do you guys really eat scones?

 

Just thinking out loud.

[MikeO]

You know what we all need right now? A proper lovefest.

 

We'll light a bonfire, all hold hands, and sing Everton chants and maybe even some old songs during the American revolution before you lost. Baines and Martinez can show up and do some slow dances together to Glenn Miller. MarkJazzBassist can bring his basses, Mike and MC can play bongos together, Newt can bring the Italian bread, Hafnia can bring the toaster, Matt, Shukes, Romey can bring the salsa and birthday cake, Lukaku can bring some money, and the rest of you can bring the beer, tequila, and your speedo swimtrunks. I'll bring the ham and lawn chairs. Lowensda - it wouldn't hurt if you bring some sheep too - preferably unshaved - I was thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of the 120 - 3,740 range. Everyone's invited (except the wives), even Naismith, and then we'll all head over Moshiri's place afterwards for some scones and coffee and watch all Everton home matches we've won at Goodison in the past 2 years. You should be home by 11:30 latest. Do you guys really eat scones?

 

Just thinking out loud.

 

That made me laugh a lot; but I worry about the brain that composed it!

 

I had some bongos once actually, came from the Edmundo Ros band and were signed by him, no idea where they are now otherwise I'd be proficient!

[rubecula]

Honest opinions wanted here. IF we win the cup, will it save RM?

[MikeO]

Honest opinions wanted here. IF we win the cup, will it save RM?

 

100%.

[MC11]

The cup will 100% save him. However he'll serve up the same dross next season. He needs gone. We're too far into the league for him to be sacked right now. But a couple more defeats on the trot as well as the defeat in the semi will/should have his number

[chalkpie]

 

That made me laugh a lot; but I worry about the brain that composed it!

 

I had some bongos once actually, came from the Edmundo Ros band and were signed by him, no idea where they are now otherwise I'd be proficient!

 

 

I worry my wife too. Man, how do you lose BONGOS!? Find those things!!

[markjazzbassist]

agree it will 100% save him.

[Newty82]

You know what we all need right now? A proper lovefest.

 

We'll light a bonfire, all hold hands, and sing Everton chants and maybe even some old songs during the American revolution before you lost. Baines and Martinez can show up and do some slow dances together to Glenn Miller. MarkJazzBassist can bring his basses, Mike and MC can play bongos together, Newt can bring the Italian bread, Hafnia can bring the toaster, Matt, Shukes, Romey can bring the salsa and birthday cake, Lukaku can bring some money, and the rest of you can bring the beer, tequila, and your speedo swimtrunks. I'll bring the ham and lawn chairs. Lowensda - it wouldn't hurt if you bring some sheep too - preferably unshaved - I was thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of the 120 - 3,740 range. Everyone's invited (except the wives), even Naismith, and then we'll all head over Moshiri's place afterwards for some scones and coffee and watch all Everton home matches we've won at Goodison in the past 2 years. You should be home by 11:30 latest. Do you guys really eat scones?

 

Just thinking out loud.

I'm down with that bro. Hell, I'm chewing tobacco while wearing my straw hat right now. Sitting on the balcony, in my rocking chair, looking out onto the ranch, sipping JD.

 

Now where's those fat arse beeeeeeeatches gown.....

[chalkpie]

Honest opinions wanted here. IF we win the cup, will it save RM?

 

Do you mean save RM to stay on board for next season? Good question, but I guess I would have to lean at least 51% in that direction, but I'm not sure its a 100% go. Moshiri just plunked down some serious coin and if we still finish bottom half of the table, I'm not sure if he's gonna groove on that.*

 

*Disclaimer: I am seriously talking out me arse and have no idea

[chalkpie]

I'm down with that bro. Hell, I'm chewing tobacco while wearing my straw hat right now. Sitting on the balcony, in my rocking chair, looking out onto the ranch, sipping JD.

 

Now where's those fat arse beeeeeeeatches gown.....

 

[Newty82]

Honest opinions wanted here. IF we win the cup, will it save RM?

Yep. And I'm at the point where, as it stands, I don't know if I like that thought!!!

 

If we win the FA Cup, no matter what you think of him, you'd have to be happy about it. The FA Cup...the most famous club competition in football. We've won nothing for 20 years...that piece of silver would be welcome.

 

Plus, although this fades week by week, we still have the posibility of finishing 'decently' in the league although still below par. Last month I was saying we could still finish 5th...no doubt that's gone. 6th....Hmmmm. 7th is still doable but we have to really really go on an amazing run in these final games.

 

I still say we could finish the season looking quite good on paper...for example 7th in the league, Semi of League Cup, Winner FA Cup...but even with that, it's been such a frustrating season that we would need to really fly as soon as next season starts.

 

Then again...we could go out if the FA Cup, lose a load of our last 8 games and Roberto will be gone.

 

And I remember myself saying the same last season. "Oh yeah, we'll march on this final part if the season, we can't keep playing this bad....". This is why I stay away from the bookies.

 

Dead easy really isn't it?!!! Erm, nah!!!

[Newty82]

Apologies....my phone keeps changing 'of' to 'if'. Pain in the arse.

[markjazzbassist]

Yep. And I'm at the point where, as it stands, I don't know if I like that thought!!!

 

If we win the FA Cup, no matter what you think of him, you'd have to be happy about it. The FA Cup...the most famous club competition in football. We've won nothing for 20 years...that piece of silver would be welcome.

 

Plus, although this fades week by week, we still have the posibility of finishing 'decently' in the league although still below par. Last month I was saying we could still finish 5th...no doubt that's gone. 6th....Hmmmm. 7th is still doable but we have to really really go on an amazing run in these final games.

 

I still say we could finish the season looking quite good on paper...for example 7th in the league, Semi of League Cup, Winner FA Cup...but even with that, it's been such a frustrating season that we would need to really fly as soon as next season starts.

 

Then again...we could go out if the FA Cup, lose a load of our last 8 games and Roberto will be gone.

 

And I remember myself saying the same last season. "Oh yeah, we'll march on this final part if the season, we can't keep playing this bad....". This is why I stay away from the bookies.

 

Dead easy really isn't it?!!! Erm, nah!!!

 

i think he was asking not whether YOU think he should stay if we win the FA cup, but WILL he stay. that's why most are saying 100% he will stay.

[Newty82]

 

i think he was asking not whether YOU think he should stay if we win the FA cup, but WILL he stay. that's why most are saying 100% he will stay.

Yeah, I answered it with my first word...them went on a little chat with myself.

 

EDIT: Either way, it's the same thing isn't it?!

Edited April 8, 2016 by Newty82

[Chach]

A straw man argument is replying to a debate with a point that has no bearing on the main topic.

 

No it's not, a straw man is when you misrepresent somebodies argument and then proceed to refute it, typically in your case like you are in some kind of life and death battle for Toffee Talk internet supremacy.

Yes, I agree it also happens to you quite a lot. Two wrongs don't make a right

[chalkpie]

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2016/04/07/22109772/baines-has-apologised-martinez?ICID=TP_HN_HP_RI_1_2

 

The more I think about this, the more Martinez can go flush himself down the worst toilet in Scotland.

[Hafnia]

 

No it's not, a straw man is when you misrepresent somebodies argument and then proceed to refute it, typically in your case like you are in some kind of life and death battle for Toffee Talk internet supremacy.

Yes, I agree it also happens to you quite a lot. Two wrongs don't make a right

Yes and my actual point was correct... Sorry my definition didn't match your wiki plagiarism.

 

See my example.

 

Me:- "lukaku has a shit touch and is technically poor"

 

Another:- "He's scored 25 goals... Yeah he's really shit"

 

That is a straw man argument. I never said lukaku is shit and I need never questioned his goals.

 

Question... do you actually read people's posts before pressing reply? This isn't the first time you've comepletely "misrepresented" what I've said..

[Chach]

Question... do you actually read people's posts before pressing reply? This isn't the first time you've comepletely "misrepresented" what I've said..

 

 

Your point was not correct, and when giving a definition its not plagiarism just to give the standard (UNIVERSALLY UNDERSTOOD AFTER FIRST YEAR UNI) definition, you are not required to put it in your own words like its primary school to show you understand it.

 

And your example was very poor, the respondent has not misrepresented your ideas just presented their own as to why he they think his touch and technique are not as important as you making out. It needed much more information.

 

I have never misrepresented you. If you go back and read it you'll see you made assumptions about what you thought I might mean in my question to you, and then responded to that.

I apologise for confusing you.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Chach

[Hafnia]

 

 

Your point was not correct, and when giving a definition its not plagiarism just to give the standard (UNIVERSALLY UNDERSTOOD AFTER FIRST YEAR UNI) definition, you are not required to put it in your own words like its primary school to show you understand it.

 

And your example was very poor, the respondent has not misrepresented your ideas just presented their own as to why he they think his touch and technique are not as important as you making out. It needed much more information.

 

I have never misrepresented you. If you go back and read it you'll see you made assumptions about what you thought I might mean in my question to you, and then responded to that.

I apologise for confusing you.

I guess you use the word refute all the time eh.... looks like stephen fry quit twitter and has joined toffeetalk.

 

For the record we use strawman as a means of saying when someone is trying to take a grievance off track in an interview. I am more than aware of what it is - i just dont need wiki to copy and paste my knowledge of it.

 

I actually use a strawman concept (different but essentially a means being deliberately inaccurate in order to find the best method) when building out a process model. Feel free to tell me I have that wrong despite using it for the past 7 years Mr pseudo intellectual.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Hafnia