Martinez - Direction?

[MC11]

 

I don't think you've grasped the concept of what I posted, I don't care about Wigan or where they finished, he over achieved while he was there and the club loved him even after they got relegated because they recognised his achievement.

You could argue he over achieved in his first season with us, and if we get anywhere near the top 10 win the FA cup final this year its going to be pretty hard to argue that's not our best season in quite a while regardless of how many times we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

Can't see the board hitting the panic button in our current position, don't know why we don;'t just ratchet down the hateometer a few notches and try and enjoy the rest of the season.

You're another loon

[Hafnia]

 

I don't think you've grasped the concept of what I posted, I don't care about Wigan or where they finished, he over achieved while he was there and the club loved him even after they got relegated because they recognised his achievement.

You could argue he over achieved in his first season with us, and if we get anywhere near the top 10 win the FA cup final this year its going to be pretty hard to argue that's not our best season in quite a while regardless of how many times we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

Can't see the board hitting the panic button in our current position, don't know why we don;'t just ratchet down the hateometer a few notches and try and enjoy the rest of the season.

They didn't love him. They warned us.

 

http://www.nsno.co.uk/everton-news/2015/01/are-wigan-fans-warnings-haunting-martinez/

 

Try and enjoy the rest of the season??? You having a laugh? He's made a laughing stock out of us. His treatment of baines means he will never have the respect of the players again.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Hafnia

[nogs]

 

Banging my head against a brick wall so I'll try shouting.

 

All of you would have sacked Kendall on new years day 1984.

 

I'm not saying Bob is going to turn it round but nobody is willing to acknowledge historical truth, you're just all choosing to ignore me. Fucking frustrating.

Mike - for your own sanity, give up. We heard you four months ago, and in January you had a point. Not any more.

 

Between 2 January and 7 April 1984, we lost just once in the league. Admittedly there were too many draws in that time, and we then lost the next two league games after winning the FA Cup semi against Southampton. But the point is, the signs of recovery were there. We should have beaten Liverpool, the best team in Europe, at Wembley in the League Cup final, after holding them 1-1 at Goodison a couple of weeks earlier. They'd smashed us 3-0 at Anfield the previous November. In his autobiography, Big Nev says those games against Liverpool were the turn around - we believed we could mix it with the best. Winning the FA Cup completed the catharsis, and we all know what that team went on to achieve.

 

Do you seriously think we are on the verge of a similar turn around under Martinez? How many league games have we lost since January? Instead of mixing it with the best, we've just rolled over and let Arsenal and Man Utd tickle our tummies. Kendall was a people's man who was loved by his players; Martinez is falling out with senior squad members in public over them making honest assessments of where we're falling short. Kendall took what was probably his final chance because he got his young side grinding out results and built momentum. Martinez is doing the exact opposite because he doesn't seem to think winning is the priority.

 

Need I go on? Kendall proved himself a very good manager in adversity. Martinez is in danger of sinking without a trace.

Edited April 8, 2016 by nogs

[Romey 1878]

 

Martinez is 2.5 seasons through his first spell at a club of half decent means, he's 42 years old.

Anyone who is saying he is not capable of learning is very likely very wrong, go back and have a look at the "better" managers being touted and their early records.

Its not whether he will learn that is the issue, it's whether we are happy to go along for the ride now our financial situation has improved, and who we can realistically get to replace him.

I am still amazed that the Bobby Out static is this high a few weeks out from a Wembley semi final. Mental.

 

It's the fact that he's making the same mistakes here as he did with Wigan and Swansea that is the problem. Like Haf pointed out, when speaking to those fans after we got him as our manager the things they were saying are ringing absolutely true. If he was showing he was changing for the better (or even a willingness to try!) then it wouldn't be so bad, but everything is pointing to him not even realising he needs to, that he's making mistakes, that he is in fact making things worse with some of the things he's doing!

[Lowensda]

 

It's the fact that he's making the same mistakes here as he did with Wigan and Swansea that is the problem. Like Haf pointed out, when speaking to those fans after we got him as our manager the things they were saying are ringing absolutely true. If he was showing he was changing for the better (or even a willingness to try!) then it wouldn't be so bad, but everything is pointing to him not even realising he needs to, that he's making mistakes, that he is in fact making things worse with some of the things he's doing!

 

Worst still, 7 years into being a premier league manager and he still hasn't learnt. I can understand 1, possibly 2 years to adapt but not learning anything in 7, is taking the piss.

 

Like some have said, if I couldn't do my job effectively, would I be given 7 years to turn it around? Would i buggary. And i'm not costing my company £3.5m a year to find out.

[Chach]

They didn't love him. They warned us.

 

http://www.nsno.co.uk/everton-news/2015/01/are-wigan-fans-warnings-haunting-martinez/

 

Try and enjoy the rest of the season??? You having a laugh? He's made a laughing stock out of us. His treatment of baines means he will never have the respect of the players again.

 

Seem to remember you making many a passionate post about what a great job he did at Wigan.

[Matt]

 

Seem to remember you making many a passionate post about what a great job he did at Wigan.

based on limited resources, a poor team and selling his stars - he did do a good job there. He's not had any of that win us though, and that's what's so annoying. It's not because he's not capable, it's because he refuses to change that people have lost patience. Edited April 8, 2016 by Matt

[pete0]

In Hollywood actors and directors will agree to make blockbusters on the condition they get to make a passion project. Martinez earned a go after getting us to 5th and our highest points total, but his tippy tappy has flopped. It's his bone idleness to go back to what works that needs addressing. Change or be sacked should be the message from the board.

[Hafnia]

 

Seem to remember you making many a passionate post about what a great job he did at Wigan.

 

I seem to remember you making another inaccurate reply to me yesterday... a reply to my response would be appreciated...

 

I actually think he did do a pretty good job at Wigan - not many managers could have kept that club afloat when reducing the wage bill by 25% and having to lose their best players who could earn outside of their wage cap often on free transfers.

 

I recall using the analogy that managing wigan was like taking part in the 100m with a rucksack full of bricks on your back - and its pretty true (a bit weird that I remembered without the search function).

 

What none of us had (unless we were closet wigan fans who watched them every game) was an understanding of how he went about things. We seen the affable guy on TV who tried to get a team of average joes to play football the right way and succeeded in winning admirers and an FA cup.

 

You see Chach - the big thing about posting on a forum or being an Everton fan is that it's not important to be proved right. Its about having the ability to see past your own ego and form or change your opinions based on what you see. The dreaded "VAULT" - it doesn't bother me in the slightest, what bothers me is Everton F.C and having the right people doing a good job.

 

Right now he has proved he is not the right "person", and he isn't doing a good job.

 

P.S Try not to worry so much about nailing colours to the mast - people respect you more for having the ability to adapt and change your views rather than stubbornly sticking to your first opinion in the face of overwhelming failure.... its ultimately what is going to cost Roberto his job.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Hafnia

[Hafnia]

In Hollywood actors and directors will agree to make blockbusters on the condition they get to make a passion project. Martinez earned a go after getting us to 5th and our highest points total, but his tippy tappy has flopped. It's his bone idleness to go back to what works that needs addressing. Change or be sacked should be the message from the board.

 

The problem with football these days is that the vast majority of the people involved don't have mortgages to pay - they can allow their arrogance to overrule their primary survival function.

[MikeO]

Mike - for your own sanity, give up. We heard you four months ago, and in January you had a point. Not any more.

 

My point is about January 1984 so what's happened in the first four months of 2016 has nothing to do with it. My point is nothing to do with whether or not Roberto should be sacked, it's about the fact that the vast majority of the fan base would have sacked Kendall. I'll have to shout louder next time.

[Chach]

 

I seem to remember you making another inaccurate reply to me yesterday... a reply to my response would be appreciated...

 

I actually think he did do a pretty good job at Wigan - not many managers could have kept that club afloat when reducing the wage bill by 25% and having to lose their best players who could earn outside of their wage cap often on free transfers.

 

I recall using the analogy that managing wigan was like taking part in the 100m with a rucksack full of bricks on your back - and its pretty true (a bit weird that I remembered without the search function).

 

What none of us had (unless we were closet wigan fans who watched them every game) was an understanding of how he went about things. We seen the affable guy on TV who tried to get a team of average joes to play football the right way and succeeded in winning admirers and an FA cup.

 

You see Chach - the big thing about posting on a forum or being an Everton fan is that it's not important to be proved right. Its about having the ability to see past your own ego and form or change your opinions based on what you see. The dreaded "VAULT" - it doesn't bother me in the slightest, what bothers me is Everton F.C and having the right people doing a good job.

 

Right now he has proved he is not the right "person", and he isn't doing a good job.

 

P.S Try not to worry so much about nailing colours to the mast - people respect you more for having the ability to adapt and change your views rather than stubbornly sticking to your first opinion in the face of overwhelming failure.... its ultimately what is going to cost Roberto his job.

 

 

That's the difference between me and you though, I actually don't think my views are that important and I don't care about how right they are because at the end of the day I support Everton and the people appointed to manage and play for the club.

I make a habit of not getting emotional about things that I have no control over, I find it's very good for my mental health.

I hope he/they can turn the season around, we've got some good games coming up and I'll be damned if I'm not going to enjoy every last fucking minute of them.

[Hafnia]

 

 

That's the difference between me and you though, I actually don't think my views are that important and I don't care about how right they are because at the end of the day I support Everton and the people appointed to manage and play for the club.

I make a habit of not getting emotional about things that I have no control over, I find it's very good for my mental health.

I hope he/they can turn the season around, we've got some good games coming up and I'll be damned if I'm not going to enjoy every last fucking minute of them.

 

You are going to enjoy every last minute of the Everton games coming up? That's like saying you are going for an enjoyable 3 hour drive in a car that has broken down 5 days out of the last 7 and you haven't had the problem fixed. You are reliant on hope vs better judgement.

 

Roberto out.

[Chach]

Right now the Everton football team is going through a period of depression, the last thing you do with someone thats depressed, especially when you love them, is get on their back.

 

COYB.

[EFC-Paul]

Right now the Everton football team is going through a period of depression, the last thing you do with someone thats depressed, especially when you love them, is get on their back.

 

COYB.

Its under achieving not depression and I'm not knocking your opinion views of how you handle things but there's mounting pressure and rightly so, the vast majority won't sit back and allow this clown to serve up the same dross talk absolute nonsense and drag a player who optimises what the clubs about into the shit publicly

 

How can anyone have faith in a man who states performances are more important than results when those performances have been poor for the most part... the mans delusional

Edited April 8, 2016 by EFC-Paul

[Hafnia]

Right now the Everton football team is going through a period of depression, the last thing you do with someone thats depressed, especially when you love them, is get on their back.

 

COYB.

 

Is there a depression? The manager seems to think everything is hunky dory and the person who actually indicated that there is a "chemistry problem" was chastised and the manager had an apology off them.....

 

stop defending the clown - I had his back as long as it was sanely possible. Enough is enough, if you can't see that then I don't really know what else there is to say.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Hafnia

[Chach]

 

Is there a depression? The manager seems to think everything is hunky dory and the person who actually indicated that there is a "chemistry problem" was chastised and the manager had an apology off them.....

 

stop defending the clown - I had his back as long as it was sanely possible. Enough is enough, if you can't see that then I don't really know what else there is to say.

 

Case in point of your extreme arrogance, you made your mind up on Martinez a couple of weeks ago., now the rest of Toffee Talk must fall in line behind you.

All hail the oracle, he has spoken and it will be so.

I am not defending Martinez, I am defending the team and I can't do that with defending him by default, because he is not 100% at fault for the situation we find ourselves in.

[Deacs]

 

I recall using the analogy that managing wigan was like taking part in the 100m with a rucksack full of bricks on your back - and its pretty true (a bit weird that I remembered without the search function.

 

Good analogy, although I would have preferred something car related. Maybe competing in a formula 1 GP in a Ford Escort or similar.

[dlblue]

Wigan loved him? nope, another deluded chairman did but not the fans. Overachieved at Wigan? won a cup yes but they were relegated also, he has always been poor defensively. Didn't he get 10 put past Wigan at Spurs?

 

All these referrals to Howard Kendall are pointless, different time, different world! The fact is we are declining under Martinez with no signs of improvement, the fans are unhappy, the players seem unhappy and with possibly the biggest summer in EFC's history coming up we need something to change.

 

I wanted things to work for Martinez, he seemed to want to win and take us further but the fact is he hasn't worked out, he doesn't learn and he is becoming an embarrassment and so are we as a club. Our home record is atrocious, our away record has saved us this season but who have we really beat? bottom table sides! we ship goals for fun, defensively we are horrendous and nothing looks like changing! i have supported him as long as i can, we have a massive summer coming up and we are losing ground so fast on teams above us its frightening. He has to go.

[London Blue]

I don't think you've grasped the concept of what I posted, I don't care about Wigan or where they finished, he over achieved while he was there and the club loved him even after they got relegated because they recognised his achievement.

You could argue he over achieved in his first season with us, and if we get anywhere near the top 10 win the FA cup final this year its going to be pretty hard to argue that's not our best season in quite a while regardless of how many times we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

Can't see the board hitting the panic button in our current position, don't know why we don;'t just ratchet down the hateometer a few notches and try and enjoy the rest of the season.

Are you serious? I support Martinez and believe he is close to leading us to a real renaissance, but even I wouldn't go as far as you have. He has assembled the best squad we have had in 20 years and and you say finishing in the top ten and winning the FA cup would be our best season in many years. Finishing 4th would have been, especially considering the top 2 are Leciester and Spurs! We should have been ready to take advantage of Chelsea and utd falling away, instead we are in freefall in the league. 3 defeats in a row in the league, since his first season our performances have got worse.

 

I love the style of football we are playing and he gets cudos for that but he needs to accept when he's made a mistake and rectify it, not procrastinate like a tool.

[dlblue]

Are you serious? I support Martinez and believe he is close to leading us to a real renaissance, but even I wouldn't go as far as you have. He has assembled the best squad we have had in 20 years and and you say finishing in the top ten and winning the FA cup would be our best season in many years. Finishing 4th would have been, especially considering the top 2 are Leciester and Spurs! We should have been ready to take advantage of Chelsea and utd falling away, instead we are in freefall in the league. 3 defeats in a row in the league, since his first season our performances have got worse.

 

I love the style of football we are playing and he gets cudos for that but he needs to accept when he's made a mistake and rectify it, not procrastinate like a tool.

 

Even that's stopped.

[Chach]

I support Martinez and believe he is close to leading us to a real renaissance

 

That's way further than I went mate.

[Lowensda]

I've had a few giggles on this page. I like you newer lads

 

(that's isn't me laughing at your input, I like your tones and responses etc.)

Edited April 8, 2016 by Lowensda

[Hafnia]

 

Case in point of your extreme arrogance, you made your mind up on Martinez a couple of weeks ago., now the rest of Toffee Talk must fall in line behind you.

All hail the oracle, he has spoken and it will be so.

I am not defending Martinez, I am defending the team and I can't do that with defending him by default, because he is not 100% at fault for the situation we find ourselves in.

 

Arrogant because I changed my view on Martinez and everyone must fall in line with my thinking??? People can feel free to think what they want.

 

If you actually represented a solid enough case to back your stance then fair enough - but you prattled on about a depressed team that needs love - forgetting that one of our senior players was thrown under the bus by the manager himself...

 

Yesterday you questioned how I could know Martinez's playing style based on the teams he played for - which I shot down having watched him play for Chester ( was their best player at the time incidentally)

 

If you want to engage in debating then please at least get some solid posts going before you start calling throwing out arrogant shouts because really they just look silly.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Hafnia

[Chach]

Lol, you give advice on debating and throw out straw man after straw man.

Hilarious.

[Hafnia]

Lol, you give advice on debating and throw out straw man after straw man.

Hilarious.

 

Straw man? so you aren't actually saying that Martinez should stay and that everything is fine, the team just need time and support?

 

Because unless I'm mistaken that is the angle of my argument is that Martinez has blown it and should go. Therefore how can my argument be a straw man?

[Newty82]

We all just need to respect each others opinions on this one. I don't think, reading all the comments, that anyone is too wrong...that includes Mike with his 84 belief, Chach with his full backing, Chalkpie, MC, Haf et al in the strong minded get him out camp. Everyone has a valid input on this one...which is unusual on a forum!

 

The only thing I read on this topic that I find myself disagreeing with are the calls to sack him now...we still have an FA Cup to go for and we'd all love to fun that. And we have 24 points to go for. So sacking him now will do nothing for us when we still have something to go at. I'm also not keen in the Moyes calls. But that's a different story.

 

We are that inconsistent on the pitch these days that it wouldn't surprise me if we won 8 on the bounce, or lost 8 on the bounce (closer to one than the other at the moment!). But that's one of Roberto's issues, isn't it?

 

I had a look at the Kendal 80's situation hoping it would make me feel more 'assured', more confident that he could pull this around. I was only born in 82 so obviously that era is null in my mind. Looking at it has only made me feel worse! Sorry Mike! Would like to explain more...but got to get back to the grind. Bloody mental today!!!

[Lowensda]

We all just need to respect each others opinions on this one. I don't think, reading all the comments, that anyone is too wrong...that includes Mike with his 84 belief, Chach with his full backing, Chalkpie, MC, Haf et al in the strong minded get him out camp. Everyone has a valid input on this one...which is unusual on a forum!

 

[markjazzbassist]

We all just need to respect each others opinions on this one. I don't think, reading all the comments, that anyone is too wrong...that includes Mike with his 84 belief, Chach with his full backing, Chalkpie, MC, Haf et al in the strong minded get him out camp. Everyone has a valid input on this one...which is unusual on a forum!

 

The only thing I read on this topic that I find myself disagreeing with are the calls to sack him now...we still have an FA Cup to go for and we'd all love to fun that. And we have 24 points to go for. So sacking him now will do nothing for us when we still have something to go at. I'm also not keen in the Moyes calls. But that's a different story.

 

We are that inconsistent on the pitch these days that it wouldn't surprise me if we won 8 on the bounce, or lost 8 on the bounce (closer to one than the other at the moment!). But that's one of Roberto's issues, isn't it?

 

I had a look at the Kendal 80's situation hoping it would make me feel more 'assured', more confident that he could pull this around. I was only born in 82 so obviously that era is null in my mind. Looking at it has only made me feel worse! Sorry Mike! Would like to explain more...but got to get back to the grind. Bloody mental today!!!

 

that's it i've had it :shaking fist: i'm leaving to support west ham now

[MikeO]

 

that's it i've had it :shaking fist: i'm leaving to support west ham now

 

Off topic but I read earlier that they only have a 14% win rate when Payet doesn't play, 50% when he does. They could crumble if he moves on.