Martinez - Direction?

[Hafnia]

Maybe Roberto is unlucky - unlucky that out teams appear to be fare less fitter than everyone else, unlucky that he refuses to close games out play like it like its the first 10 minutes and not the last 10 minutes, unlucky that his sub choices are poor - unlucky that the majority of the fans have now had enough of his delusion.

 

I actually thought he would "begrudgingly" accept that his fantasy football was flawed and he needed to tweak it to be a little more ugly in order to get success - he just can't.

 

Reminds me of a lad I used to play football with - in 7 a side he refused to pass back to the keeper, even if 2 players closed him down and he had nothing on he would not play it back to keeper "he was too good for that"... he wasn't and we conceded goals because of his ego.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Hafnia

[Shukes]

Remember that luck doesn't exist. It's a term used for out of the ordinary circumstances.

For example a shot going out for a corner that hits your player and goes in, a goal that should have been called offside, a penalty that was outside the box.

 

These are all examples of bad/good luck.

 

A shot that is on target that a defender deflects while trying to block isn't luck.

 

There has been a degree of good/bad luck all season. Is it the managers fault...it could well be the law of attraction.

While your lucks down, you get kicked.

 

Doesn't matter what the reason is.

 

Hitting the woodwork isn't unlucky, it was a miss!

 

Is McCarthy unlucky for having such a torrid time worh injuries?

Technically not. It must be down to the way he landed,twisted,got hit, diet etc etc.

But I would still class him as unlucky, same with Besic.

[Shukes]

Chalk...you are correct.

That's our problem, we are letting g these things decide our matches instead of taking control ourselves.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Why are so many people hell bent on ignoring cold hard facts? Bad luck / poor officials may not be the sole reason why we are languishing in the bottom half but clearly it's a contributing factor

I'm as fed up with Bobby Walkers clueless game management and inept tactics as anyone but when you get decisions like the Terry goal go against you there really isn't anything you can do about it

 

 

[StevO]

If Terry picks the ball up 40 yards out and smashes it into the top corner, there is nothing you can do about it. If he's offside, past the time limit, and your players aren't closing the opposition down, there is plenty that can and should have been done.

[Hafnia]

Luck? it works both ways, people tend to forget times when we have had some fortune. You can't control luck, but you can control the parts where luck comes into play. By all accounts West Ham have had the most poor decisions cost them this season. Lets not start sounding like that bunch.

 

http://statsbomb.com/2016/01/everton-where-is-the-luck/

 

here is a good article - stop focusing on luck is the conclusion, absolutely nothing to do with it.

[Shukes]

No one's focusing on it Haf, just not if owing it either.

It has made or broke careers.

 

For the record I did put good/bad

I also referred to our penalty against Man City.

 

Chalk hit it on the head, luck can take charge if you let it. The trick is not to get into the situation where it can take charge.

[EFC-Paul]

That's not your initial thought on it though Shukes you've adjusted your tune to the majority since posting "we are the unluckiest team in the league" which we aren't

 

Dunc people get that decisions have played a part in points being dropped but that's across the board not only ourselves so it generally equals itself out, how many points would you say we have lost due to the above?

[Shukes]

True Paul.

My Initial point was aimed at the factual stats that had been put up.

 

I didn't follow the majority though trust me. I just thought more about it thats all.

My initial comment was based on the woodwork stat, but I agree that's not down to luck, that's bad targeting.

The more I think about it the more I worry that someone up there just doesn't like us.

 

Some of the deflections that are heading for a throw in and hit an ass, then loop up and in.

 

But then again this happens to every team.

 

I stand by my point that for the majority of the season we have looked good and that we have lost or drawn when our chances and play deserved a win.

 

But hey, this is football, you don't get what you feel you deserved all the time.

[EFC-Paul]

True Paul.

My Initial point was aimed at the factual stats that had been put up.

 

I didn't follow the majority though trust me. I just thought more about it thats all.

My initial comment was based on the woodwork stat, but I agree that's not down to luck, that's bad targeting.

The more I think about it the more I worry that someone up there just doesn't like us.

 

Some of the deflections that are heading for a throw in and hit an ass, then loop up and in.

 

But then again this happens to every team.

 

I stand by my point that for the majority of the season we have looked good and that we have lost or drawn when our chances and play deserved a win.

 

But hey, this is football, you don't get what you feel you deserved all the time.

Sorry just re read what I put it sounded abit arsey wasn't intentional

 

Style without substance doesn't do it for me mate ideally we'd have a mixture of both but we generally don't

 

I've backed Martinez in the past and I do still think he has some great qualities but he's not got or developed what I hoped he would which is a plan B and to learn from his mistakes

 

If he won the cup and changed his ways I'd be happy but I think we all know one or possibly both of those won't happen and with the arrival of Moshiri our landscape has changed from previous times

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

If Terry picks the ball up 40 yards out and smashes it into the top corner, there is nothing you can do about it. If he's offside, past the time limit, and your players aren't closing the opposition down, there is plenty that can and should have been done.

I am intrigued what exactly could we have done about it?

 

Should we have walked off the pitch when we thought time was up?

 

Terry was miles offside,it was an absolutely atrocious decision by the officials, what could we possibly have done about that?

[MikeO]

I am intrigued what exactly could we have done about it?

 

Should we have walked off the pitch when we thought time was up?

 

Terry was miles offside,it was an absolutely atrocious decision by the officials, what could we possibly have done about that?

 

Exactly, I missed the game (was abroad) and haven't watched it but presumably you could argue that our defence did their job 100% correctly by putting him in an offside position.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

That's not your initial thought on it though Shukes you've adjusted your tune to the majority since posting "we are the unluckiest team in the league" which we aren't

 

Dunc people get that decisions have played a part in points being dropped but that's across the board not only ourselves so it generally equals itself out, how many points would you say we have lost due to the above?

That's just it though, I do not believe for one second that these things even themselves out. If that was the case I would be quite looking forward to the Derby next week at Analfield. I would be expecting The Shite to have 6 players incorrectly sent off, have 10 perfectly good goals disallowed and us to win 8-0 with 4 dodgy penalties and 4 clearly offside goals!

 

Look I'm not claiming we are having a poor season due to bad luck or poor officials. We are in the bottom half because we are shite but luck does play a part

[StevO]

Dunc, and Mike, we could have actually challenged for the ball in midfield, then we could have tried to win one of the two or three unchallenged headers in the box before the ball dropped to Terry. But we didn't. Forget officials, players do your job first. Yes we did have him in an offside position, but before that no one challenged for the ball, that's what's unacceptable and could have been done from what I saw.

 

Even more frustrating was the week after hearing Besic say he isn't just a defensive player and didn't make a single tackle in the Chelsea game. Almost like it was a good thing. If one player made one tackle, or even an attempt and a foul, we could have seen the game out.

Edited April 13, 2016 by StevO

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Dunc, and Mike, we could have actually challenged for the ball in midfield, then we could have tried to win one of the two or three unchallenged headers in the box before the ball dropped to Terry. But we didn't. Forget officials, players do your job first. Yes we did have him in an offside position, but before that no one challenged for the ball, that's what's unacceptable and could have been done from what I saw.

 

Even more frustrating was the week after hearing Besic say he isn't just a defensive player and didn't make a single tackle in the Chelsea game. Almost like it was a good thing. If one player made one tackle, or even an attempt and a foul, we could have seen the game out.

It was a 40 yard punt into our area, not much the midfield could have done about it and our players did challenge for all the headers, even if they did lose out

 

It was down to poor officiating and there is nothing we can do about that

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WiGD3XhiUj8

[MikeO]

It was a 40 yard punt into our area, not much the midfield could have done about it and our players did challenge for all the headers, even if they did lose out

 

It was down to poor officiating and there is nothing we can do about that

 

 

Refuse to click that link, don't want to see it.

[StevO]

Their defender has the ball and no one within 30 yards of him, anyone closes him down and he doesn't get left to hit it. Three players jump for the header, but hardly any pressure on the Chelsea players from our defenders. If you don't think we could have done better there then fair enough, but I'll say one thing, if that was a David Moyes team someone closes down the defender, and if the ball still comes in they are touch right for them headers.

 

Not that it matters anyway, we all have our own opinions.

[EFC-Paul]

If that was the case I would be quite looking forward to the Derby next week at Analfield. I would be expecting The Shite to have 6 players incorrectly sent off, have 10 perfectly good goals disallowed and us to win 8-0 with 4 dodgy penalties and 4 clearly offside goals!

I'll give you that one, here's hoping!

[Kankurette]

Speaking of the shite, have any fans considered doing a walkout to protest against Martinez, like the RS did over ticket prices? Tweeting #MartinezOut is all very well, but it's not going to do anything.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Kankurette

[Newty82]

Speaking of the shite, have any fans considered doing a walkout to protest against Martinez, like the RS did over ticket prices? Tweeting #MartinezOut is all very well, but it's not going to do anything.

Christ, we've won fuck all for 20 years. We've finished in mostly nothing positions for most of 25 years. Yes, he may end up taking us slightly backwards and will deserve to lose his job for that but he hasn't taken us from the summit of the table to mid table obscurity.

 

He deserves some flack but he doesn't deserve banners, petitions, and protests!!!

[markjazzbassist]

Christ, we've won fuck all for 20 years. We've finished in mostly nothing positions for most of 25 years. Yes, he may end up taking us slightly backwards and will deserve to lose his job for that but he hasn't taken us from the summit of the table to mid table obscurity.

 

He deserves some flack but he doesn't deserve banners, petitions, and protests!!!

 

moyes average position 7.5

 

martinez (using our current 12th) - 9.3

 

given more money to spend and we are doing worse. RM OUT!

[Newty82]

 

moyes average position 7.5

 

martinez (using our current 12th) - 9.3

 

given more money to spend and we are doing worse. RM OUT!

Why did you waste your time posting that our Mark?!!!

[markjazzbassist]

Why did you waste your time posting that our Mark?!!!

 

cause you've said we moved "slightly backwards"

[Newty82]

 

cause you've said we moved "slightly backwards"

Right?! I still don't get it? I said 'he may end up taking us slightly backwards', which is true, and deserves flack. But I get the feeling your post was to disagree with that or something, but it actually backs up everything I said? Or was that the intention? I don't get what point you are trying to make?

[markjazzbassist]

Right?! I still don't get it? I said 'he may end up taking us slightly backwards', which is true, and deserves flack. But I get the feeling your post was to disagree with that or something, but it actually backs up everything I said? Or was that the intention? I don't get what point you are trying to make?

 

it's up to the reader to interpret whether moving back 2 league places on average is "slightly backwards", "backwards", "far backwards" or whatever. just after reading your thought i thought to myself how far back have we gone so i looked up the league positions and did the math. just wanted a hard fact of a number instead of the mindless conjecture we so often receive on here.

[Newty82]

 

it's up to the reader to interpret whether moving back 2 league places on average is "slightly backwards", "backwards", "far backwards" or whatever. just after reading your thought i thought to myself how far back have we gone so i looked up the league positions and did the math. just wanted a hard fact of a number instead of the mindless conjecture we so often receive on here.

Ah right. Well it is backwards, whatever. But you also reiterate that we have finished in 'nothing' positions...average of 7.5 over 11 years...so, again, it's not like RM has taken us from Top 4 to mid table. So protests, banners, petitions and walk outs are too far in that respect. Keep it relative guys!!!

[markjazzbassist]

Ah right. Well it is backwards, whatever. But you also reiterate that we have finished in 'nothing' positions...average of 7.5 over 11 years...so, again, it's not like RM has taken us from Top 4 to mid table. So protests, banners, petitions and walk outs are too far in that respect. Keep it relative guys!!!

The 17th place finish skews the numbers pretty hard. If it weren't for that moyes would be at 5.8. Only other non top ten he had was 11. So top ten 9 out of 11 years, pretty impressive.

[chalkpie]

Ah right. Well it is backwards, whatever. But you also reiterate that we have finished in 'nothing' positions...average of 7.5 over 11 years...so, again, it's not like RM has taken us from Top 4 to mid table. So protests, banners, petitions and walk outs are too far in that respect. Keep it relative guys!!!

 

Newter - My 2 quid - The fans who go to the games every single match either home or away, buy the merchandise, spend way too much time on this site , being loyal for many many years, etc etc I feel have the absolute right and are entitled to express their views in any manner they feel necessary. This is a two-way street.......Martinez doesn't think its a big deal to talk rubbish and feed us nonsense week in and week out like we are complete and utter dim-witted fools, so a banner and petition is not out of line. Of course this is my opinion only, and everybody has the right to disagree or agree with this viewpoint and still be considered a loyal supporter to EFC.

Edited April 14, 2016 by chalkpie

[Elston Gunnn]

Martinez doesn't think its a big deal to talk rubbish and feed us nonsense week in and week out like we are complete and utter dim-witted fools....

Here's the post-Palace nonsensical rubbish: The second yellow on McCarthy was "very, very harsh. Bolasie is very clever and goes through McCarthy, James's body can't disappear, and I thought Bolasie was looking for the contact. He [McCarthy] didn't intend to get in the way of the Crystal Palace player."

 

The 2 times I saw the replay, I thought exactly the same as I thought when it happened live: McCarthy was an idiot. He's on a yellow and makes absolutely no attempt to turn away from blocking Bolasie straight on. His pea-brain did not warn him that he couldn't afford to block the path of his opponent, and so firmly to boot.

 

Another example of Roberto blaming the ref, unwilling to see that his own player did something obviously stupid. As the "Martinez out" story grows, I fully expect to see this play on video, followed by Roberto's nonsensical rubbish, followed by some straightforward, but also smirky, pundit-criticism of that rubbish.

 

He seems a genuinely warm fellow who has strangely made of himself a running joke. Odds are this will end badly for him. May take a while to outlive his reputation for outlandish self-delusion. It's painful to watch him make a fool of himself.

[Shukes]

 

cause you've said we moved "slightly backwards"

You proved his point but we also have matches left to rise higher and could won a cup....he may end the season with a better average than Moyes and a cup.

 

Wouldn't that mean he has moved us forward?