Martinez - Direction?

[Kankurette]

Christ, we've won fuck all for 20 years. We've finished in mostly nothing positions for most of 25 years. Yes, he may end up taking us slightly backwards and will deserve to lose his job for that but he hasn't taken us from the summit of the table to mid table obscurity.

 

He deserves some flack but he doesn't deserve banners, petitions, and protests!!!

 

You think? No-one fucking likes Martinez! He's our most hated manager since Walker! Even the team seem to have turned on him. Yeah, we won nothing under Moyes, but at least we knew where we were with him. With Bob, we don't and it's like he's undone all Moyes' good work. I tried to defend him for ages, but it just isn't working.

 

I'm sick to death of going on the Everton feed and seeing a dozen #MartinezOut tweets in response to everything they post. It won't do shit and neither will telling Oviedo or whoever to have a word with the manager.

 

And yeah, I do believe he is, from everything I've heard from people who've met him, a genuinely nice bloke. He just makes me sad more than anything else. I think he's lying to himself now. He knows no-one's buying him.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Kankurette

[Romey 1878]

Here's the post-Palace nonsensical rubbish: The second yellow on McCarthy was "very, very harsh. Bolasie is very clever and goes through McCarthy, James's body can't disappear, and I thought Bolasie was looking for the contact. He [McCarthy] didn't intend to get in the way of the Crystal Palace player."

 

The 2 times I saw the replay, I thought exactly the same as I thought when it happened live: McCarthy was an idiot. He's on a yellow and makes absolutely no attempt to turn away from blocking Bolasie straight on. His pea-brain did not warn him that he couldn't afford to block the path of his opponent, and so firmly to boot.

 

Another example of Roberto blaming the ref, unwilling to see that his own player did something obviously stupid. As the "Martinez out" story grows, I fully expect to see this play on video, followed by Roberto's nonsensical rubbish, followed by some straightforward, but also smirky, pundit-criticism of that rubbish.

 

He seems a genuinely warm fellow who has strangely made of himself a running joke. Odds are this will end badly for him. May take a while to outlive his reputation for outlandish self-delusion. It's painful to watch him make a fool of himself.

 

He's wrong to say it was harsh. It wasn't, the second yellow card was completely justified. But at the same time if McCarthy had jumped out of the way and just let Bolasie run past him then there would be many moaning about letting Bolasie have a run at our defence. So while it was stupid of James I can understand why it happened, and I actually wasn't that angry about it.

 

Martinez probably should've taken McCarthy off at half-time to protect him because he plays in a position that was going to require him to put challenges in. But, I can also see why he left him on because McCarthy was doing a good job of pressing for us and he's an important player to Martinez.

 

My only real issue with Martinez from last night, as I've said elsewhere, is that he seemed to give the game up as soon as we went down to 10.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

You proved his point but we also have matches left to rise higher and could won a cup....he may end the season with a better average than Moyes and a cup.

 

Wouldn't that mean he has moved us forward?

As stated the stats for Moyes are skewed by the 17th place finish in his formative years when he took over a relegation threatened side

 

We will not finish in the top 10 this season and it will only be the second time that's happened in over a decade , both under Bobby Walker . He has spent a fortune to take us backwards , they are the only stats you need to know

[Mogsy]

Nice to see luis Enrique say he is 100% to blame for barca's loss. Makes a refreshing change for a manger to take responsibility for the team losing!

[Shukes]

As stated the stats for Moyes are skewed by the 17th place finish in his formative years when he took over a relegation threatened side

 

We will not finish in the top 10 this season and it will only be the second time that's happened in over a decade , both under Bobby Walker . He has spent a fortune to take us backwards , they are the only stats you need to know

But so ate Martinezs stats skewed by presumption thos season. I still think we will find is top ten.

 

Just so we're clear....stats are more skewed by the lower numbers, not the higher ones. So basing Martinez stays on three seasons rather than eleven could also be a little unfair.

 

Your arguing the wrong stat in my opinion.

 

Your argument that Martinez isn't the right man..... I can agree with.

[Hafnia]

As stated the stats for Moyes are skewed by the 17th place finish in his formative years when he took over a relegation threatened side

 

We will not finish in the top 10 this season and it will only be the second time that's happened in over a decade , both under Bobby Walker . He has spent a fortune to take us backwards , they are the only stats you need to know

 

its all very well calling it formative years we went from 7th to 17th in his first full season to his second... a 10 place drop.

 

Lets be honest, if it wasn't for the fact that we didn't have the money to sack a manager and we had some expectations filled by a new investor he would have likely been given the boot.

 

Up till Moshiri was on board I think the fear of Martinez getting the boot would have been unlikely even with the recent run of form.

 

I still don't know why we are discussing Moyes, he was the same manager that he was at the start - he never evolved and the game has moved on, he was a bright young manager, now a very rich dinosaur.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

its all very well calling it formative years we went from 7th to 17th in his first full season to his second... a 10 place drop.

 

Lets be honest, if it wasn't for the fact that we didn't have the money to sack a manager and we had some expectations filled by a new investor he would have likely been given the boot.

 

Up till Moshiri was on board I think the fear of Martinez getting the boot would have been unlikely even with the recent run of form.

 

I still don't know why we are discussing Moyes, he was the same manager that he was at the start - he never evolved and the game has moved on, he was a bright young manager, now a very rich dinosaur.

I totally agree, if we had the money Man City have now and if we had Barcelonas players and if we had Real Madrids chairman he probably would have been sacked that season

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

But so ate Martinezs stats skewed by presumption thos season. I still think we will find is top ten.

 

Just so we're clear....stats are more skewed by the lower numbers, not the higher ones. So basing Martinez stays on three seasons rather than eleven could also be a little unfair.

 

Your arguing the wrong stat in my opinion.

 

Your argument that Martinez isn't the right man..... I can agree with.

If we give him another 8 years I'm sure the stats will be even more alarming

 

The point is Moyes was dealt a bad hand with the team he inherited Martinez was given a very different start, the foundations were firmly in place and he has failed to build on them

[EFC-Paul]

If we give him another 8 years I'm sure the stats will be even more alarming

 

The point is Moyes was dealt a bad hand with the team he inherited Martinez was given a very different start, the foundations were firmly in place and he has failed to build on them

Fully agree two totally different situations and tbh I'm not one for comparing past and present its very rarely plausible but the thought of eight more years of Martinez is frightening

Edited April 14, 2016 by EFC-Paul

[Shukes]

If we give him another 8 years I'm sure the stats will be even more alarming

 

The point is Moyes was dealt a bad hand with the team he inherited Martinez was given a very different start, the foundations were firmly in place and he has failed to build on them

Agree. I have gone from supporting him to wanting a change.

Even if he wins the remaining six matches, wins the cup and buys Yarmalenko I still think I would dread another year.

[Hafnia]

I totally agree, if we had the money Man City have now and if we had Barcelonas players and if we had Real Madrids chairman he probably would have been sacked that season

 

no - just enough money so that paying a sacked manager off wouldn't have been an issue.

[Elston Gunnn]

He's wrong to say it was harsh. It wasn't, the second yellow card was completely justified. But at the same time if McCarthy had jumped out of the way....

 

My only real issue with Martinez from last night, as I've said elsewhere, is that he seemed to give the game up as soon as we went down to 10.

We could discuss McCarthy's options and/or Martinez's game management after the second yellow. But in this case, my point referred to the burgeoning sense that Martinez has been self-destructing for quite some time now with his rubbish comments in post-match interviews, not to mention pre-match press conferences, random interviews, pretty much any time he opens his mouth.

 

As you and I (and 99% of fans who saw the match?) agree, the second yellow was completely justified, far from harsh. So Roberto looks the self-deluded fool yet again. It's become a bizarre, uncomfortable story: a man widely admired for his sweet smile, winning personality, and admirable demeanor has become -- has made himself -- a laughingstock. He seems to have gone over some edge, determined to lift himself out of a hole by ... digging.

 

Over the past two years, when watching and listening to him, I've gone from curiosity, to bemusement, to anger, to discomfort.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

no - just enough money so that paying a sacked manager off wouldn't have been an issue.

In all seriousness of cause he could have been sacked after finishing 17th . Kenwright has rightly been lauded for sticking by him and it was fully justified by a 4th place finish the next season

 

The difference is Moyes always addressed the issues, or at least tried to given the financial restrictions he was under

Moyes never had two poor seasons on the trot where the same glaring problems were allowed to drag on

How long have we known we needed a new keeper? How long have we known we needed a creative number 10?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-3539327/Roberto-Martinez-Everton-hitting-stride-time-FA-Cup-semi-final.html

 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2016 by duncanmckenzieismagic

[Lowensda]

"Hitting their stride"?

 

Jesus wept. Couldn't hit a f*cking barn door.

[markjazzbassist]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-3539327/Roberto-Martinez-Everton-hitting-stride-time-FA-Cup-semi-final.html

 

 

 

 

 

what stride? man is oblivious

[London Blue]

Team and manager under pressure.

[pete0]

In all seriousness of cause he could have been sacked after finishing 17th . Kenwright has rightly been lauded for sticking by him and it was fully justified by a 4th place finish the next season

 

The difference is Moyes always addressed the issues, or at least tried to given the financial restrictions he was under

Moyes never had two poor seasons on the trot where the same glaring problems were allowed to drag on

How long have we known we needed a new keeper? How long have we known we needed a creative number 10?

Moyes didn't replace Martyn, and I can't remember him ever using a creative 10. These two weak spots are ongoing from Moyes era.

[veedublin]

I know way less than everyone else here, so I'm not ashamed to ask, specifically, why the hatred of Martinez? (I'm not saying there shouldn't be extreme disappointment, but I'm wondering what the source of the anger is.)

 

Yes, our record is crap, and i understand how that reflects on a manager. But it also rests on the players, no?

 

Is it that Martinez doesn't know how to get the best out of the side? Or that he insists on an inadequate strategy? Or that he starts (and subs) the wrong players? Do the players like him?

 

We hear quotes from the players about how "there's no chemistry" in our side. Is this Martinez? (Not arguing that it's not; just wondering what it will take.)

 

I watch these matches and it's unbelievable how hot and cold our players run from one weekend to the next. I mean, against Chelsea in the FA Cup quarterfinal, Lukaku was insane. (Or maybe it was just "the goal" I remember.) But then against Palace, he doesn't even show up.

 

It appears that they know how to play the game, but where is the heart and soul? My God, how fortunate must one be to play soccer for a living? And an immensely lucrative living, at that. (Some look like they really DO give a damn, like Lennon, and Coleman, and Besic.)

 

Hard to argue that a new manager can't change things, at least statistically. Look at Chelsea. Under JM, they had 15 points from 16 games, and were as low as 16th place. Under GH, they've earned nearly double: 29 points from 16 games, and clawed their way back to 8th (before sliding two spots). If it were me, I would have had NO problem sacking Mourinho, him being ineffective AND an ass.

 

But as for RM, I'm not a fan, based on his results. But I wish he could have had success, because he seems like such a decent guy.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Moyes didn't replace Martyn, and I can't remember him ever using a creative 10. These two weak spots are ongoing from Moyes era.

He did replace Martyn with Tim Howard. I'm not suggesting he was as good but he was a very good keeper and an excellent signing for us.

 

Moyes didn't set his teams out to have a creative number 10 he deployed either Cahill or Fellaini behind the striker, not pretty but it was effective

[EFC-Paul]

Cahill and Fallaini two I'd love to have back here one obviously being a tad younger than his is now

 

His bite grit and knack of a header would be more than welcome and I actually think Fallaini would be a great foil for Lukaku

Edited April 14, 2016 by EFC-Paul

[Newty82]

 

You think? No-one fucking likes Martinez! He's our most hated manager since Walker! Even the team seem to have turned on him. Yeah, we won nothing under Moyes, but at least we knew where we were with him. With Bob, we don't and it's like he's undone all Moyes' good work. I tried to defend him for ages, but it just isn't working.

 

I'm sick to death of going on the Everton feed and seeing a dozen #MartinezOut tweets in response to everything they post. It won't do shit and neither will telling Oviedo or whoever to have a word with the manager.

 

And yeah, I do believe he is, from everything I've heard from people who've met him, a genuinely nice bloke. He just makes me sad more than anything else. I think he's lying to himself now. He knows no-one's buying him.

No one likes Martinez? Our most hated manager? How do you know? Based on 'a dozen Martinez out' hash tags on twitter after a bad run? How many followers does the Everton feed have? I'm not a Twitter man, so you tell me? The Facebook page has 2.5million followers...you get a few hundred at most disgruntled people after a defeat. Anybody ever read the comments after a win? You get a few hundred happy people.

 

He's underperforming at this moment in time. No doubt. If he carries on this trend he deserves the sack. And that's all he deserves...the sack.

 

He doesn't deserve banners, rants, chants, hatred, walk outs, protests.

 

The bloke has done good things for this club. Results on the pitch have gone sour, he may end up being a poor manager for us but he has done bloody good things behind the scenes at this club.

 

And yes he is a nice bloke. So treat him like a nice bloke. Say thanks but no thanks. Don't treat him like an absolute twat while the real twats get treat with more respect. Does my nut in.

 

And Chalkpie...This whole modern day feeling of 'entitlement' that we all have does my nut in too. Because we pay, we can act how we want. Bollocks. Respect and courtesy goes a long way. We've lost touch of what really matters and it pisses me off. I deal with it every day.

 

If he gets sacked because he under delivers on the pitch, he gets sacked. Fair play. But stop with treating him like he's torn the club apart, like he's the devil in disguise. It's goes too far for me.

 

Sorry to write all that...think I need to get in the gym and smash some numbers out!!!

[Newty82]

If we give him another 8 years I'm sure the stats will be even more alarming

 

The point is Moyes was dealt a bad hand with the team he inherited Martinez was given a very different start, the foundations were firmly in place and he has failed to build on them

I don't fully disagree but Martinez wasn't given a golden platter. In Moyes final season, we had the oldest starting 11 in the league just about every week...about 29.something. I remember saying one of the challenges will be to refresh an ageing squad with new talent good enough to keep us at the top. There is a thread about it somewhere, a couple of years ago I think. The amount of new blood needed was always going to be a challenge.

 

Martinez hasn't helped himself but he has done a good job of reducing the age of an old squad.

[Kankurette]

No one likes Martinez? Our most hated manager? How do you know? Based on 'a dozen Martinez out' hash tags on twitter after a bad run? How many followers does the Everton feed have? I'm not a Twitter man, so you tell me? The Facebook page has 2.5million followers...you get a few hundred at most disgruntled people after a defeat. Anybody ever read the comments after a win? You get a few hundred happy people.

 

He's underperforming at this moment in time. No doubt. If he carries on this trend he deserves the sack. And that's all he deserves...the sack.

 

He doesn't deserve banners, rants, chants, hatred, walk outs, protests.

 

The bloke has done good things for this club. Results on the pitch have gone sour, he may end up being a poor manager for us but he has done bloody good things behind the scenes at this club.

 

And yes he is a nice bloke. So treat him like a nice bloke. Say thanks but no thanks. Don't treat him like an absolute twat while the real twats get treat with more respect. Does my nut in.

 

And Chalkpie...This whole modern day feeling of 'entitlement' that we all have does my nut in too. Because we pay, we can act how we want. Bollocks. Respect and courtesy goes a long way. We've lost touch of what really matters and it pisses me off. I deal with it every day.

 

If he gets sacked because he under delivers on the pitch, he gets sacked. Fair play. But stop with treating him like he's torn the club apart, like he's the devil in disguise. It's goes too far for me.

 

Sorry to write all that...think I need to get in the gym and smash some numbers out!!!

 

I'm only going on what I've seen on social media.

- Every time there's a post on the official Everton Twitter feed, no matter whether Bob is in it or whether it's about the U21s, Stones and Clevs playing football with kids or offers on shirts, there will be a gazillion anti-Martinez tweets.

- The same applies to Facebook.

- The vast majority of posters on the Everton Reddit want him out. Every time we lose, there's at least 3 threads on there moaning about him.

- The Watford banner.

- Even the Echo have turned on him, and none of the comments on articles about him are positive.

- The Martinez thread on GOT is over a thousand pages long and the vast majority of the comments are not positive. Toffeeweb is also very anti-Martinez and has been for a while.

- I've seen a good few fans online saying he's worse than Mike fucking Walker.

- Fans of other teams have said that Everton deserve better. Kopites included. Hammers and City fans absolutely despise him. Some of the comments about him I've seen from City fans are borderline racist.

 

I don't hate Martinez as a person. Confession time: I did, I had violent intrusive thoughts about him after the West Ham game which I will not go into here, and I realised what I was thinking was wrong and got help for it, because at the end of the day, he isn't a monster, he is a human being with a wife and a little girl who would be very sad if he died, and wanting to harm a person for not managing a football club very well is...disproportionate, to say the least. I've not met him myself, though one of my Evertonian uncle's mates (John Shearon, if you're a Ruletero you might know him) is involved with the Ruleteros, has met Martinez and said he was lovely, and others have said the same. Some people on GOT have said he's actually a complete prick (it depends on whether you believe that Twitter post about the fan who spoke to him, or not), but who knows? I mean, I'd like to meet him cos he comes across as an interesting guy. But he does not cut it as a manager. And he isn't liked. Not by the fans and, it seems, not by the team either, which is just sad, frankly.

 

And I'd never boo or harass Roberto. He's done some good things for the club, and there are worse managers. But he needs to go now. I've tried to support him for ages, but I'm at the end of my rope.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Kankurette

[Newty82]

Agree. I have gone from supporting him to wanting a change.

Even if he wins the remaining six matches, wins the cup and buys Yarmalenko I still think I would dread another year.

I'm at a point where, within my mind, I don't want anymore grey areas. I want to know...can he? Is he?

 

It's either win the cup and finish 7th/8th (a mark down on my pre season expectations!) with a strong run of results that show serious change or don't win the cup, finish around mid table with performances that show no change.

 

I'm swinging more towards 'he cant' and also, as it stands, not wanting another season of this malarkey.

[Newty82]

Kankurette...the whole post wasn't aimed solely at you. I know where your coming from...social media is the main influencer these days, the bandwagon that gets jumped on.

 

My main issue is with the idea of walk outs, petitions etc. It's just not needed. But anyway, I guess we've done that to death now!!! Haha.

[Kankurette]

Desperate times call for desperate measures, I guess. I agree we should wait and see what happens with Man United first, though.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

I'm only going on what I've seen on social media.

- Every time there's a post on the official Everton Twitter feed, no matter whether Bob is in it or whether it's about the U21s, Stones and Clevs playing football with kids or offers on shirts, there will be a gazillion anti-Martinez tweets.

- The same applies to Facebook.

- The vast majority of posters on the Everton Reddit want him out. Every time we lose, there's at least 3 threads on there moaning about him.

- The Watford banner.

- Even the Echo have turned on him, and none of the comments on articles about him are positive.

- The Martinez thread on GOT is over a thousand pages long and the vast majority of the comments are not positive. Toffeeweb is also very anti-Martinez and has been for a while.

- I've seen a good few fans online saying he's worse than Mike fucking Walker.

- Fans of other teams have said that Everton deserve better. Kopites included. Hammers and City fans absolutely despise him. Some of the comments about him I've seen from City fans are borderline racist.

 

I don't hate Martinez as a person. Confession time: I did, I had violent intrusive thoughts about him after the West Ham game which I will not go into here, and I realised what I was thinking was wrong and got help for it, because at the end of the day, he isn't a monster, he is a human being with a wife and a little girl who would be very sad if he died, and wanting to harm a person for not managing a football club very well is...disproportionate, to say the least. I've not met him myself, though one of my Evertonian uncle's mates (John Shearon, if you're a Ruletero you might know him) is involved with the Ruleteros, has met Martinez and said he was lovely, and others have said the same. Some people on GOT have said he's actually a complete prick (it depends on whether you believe that Twitter post about the fan who spoke to him, or not), but who knows? I mean, I'd like to meet him cos he comes across as an interesting guy. But he does not cut it as a manager. And he isn't liked. Not by the fans and, it seems, not by the team either, which is just sad, frankly.

 

And I'd never boo or harass Roberto. He's done some good things for the club, and there are worse managers. But he needs to go now. I've tried to support him for ages, but I'm at the end of my rope.

Trust me it's not just on social media, I honestly think I'm being reserved if I estimate 75% of match going fans want him

[Kankurette]

You're not the only one who's said that. I don't go the matches due to being on low wages and disabled and not living in Liverpool, so I can't judge for myself.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

You're not the only one who's said that. I don't go the matches due to being on low wages and disabled and not living in Liverpool, so I can't judge for myself.

I have been going home and away with the same gang of about 20 mates for longer than I care to remember and getting shut of Martinez is probably the first thing we have ever unanimously agreed on