Matt Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 Even though this appears to be posted in the wrong thread, I will comment. It should all be sorted by 2027 then. Why is it in wrong thread mate? Part of the Brexit argument was that the EU restricted trade. Here's an example of the EU extending trade to the worlds 3rd biggest economy. I'm sure it will take a while, that's realistic. Unlike a 2 year timeline to leave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 7, 2017 Report Share Posted July 7, 2017 Why is it in wrong thread mate? Part of the Brexit argument was that the EU restricted trade. Here's an example of the EU extending trade to the worlds 3rd biggest economy. I'm sure it will take a while, that's realistic. Unlike a 2 year timeline to leave Between the Japanese, who are the world's experts at negotiating deals which are to their advantage, and the EU bureaucrats, you are right that it will 'take a while'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 Between the Japanese, who are the world's experts at negotiating deals which are to their advantage, and the EU bureaucrats, you are right that it will 'take a while'. naturally, complex situations take a long time to resolve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 "very big and powerful" God he talks some absolute shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted July 8, 2017 Report Share Posted July 8, 2017 "very big and powerful" God he talks some absolute shit https://twitter.com/sam_lister_/status/883606628116856832 The UK has a huge trade surplus with the US, so no surprise Trump wants to do something about this (ie lower the surplus) through an FTA. Prepare to bend over if you think a good FTA is a quick FTA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/quick-us-trade-deal-will-signal-uk-easy-prey Added difficulty in this is the fact that the UK has no expertise in negotiating its own trade deals. There is a risk the UK government will end up signing a lot of very bad deals quickly to prove a point. Just one more hidden difficulty of brexit. Edited July 9, 2017 by holystove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/quick-us-trade-deal-will-signal-uk-easy-prey Added difficulty in this is the fact that the UK has no expertise in negotiating its own trade deals. There is a risk the UK government will end up signing a lot of very bad deals quickly to prove a point. Just one more hidden difficulty of brexit. The UK has been a trading nation throughout its history. 'No expertise in negotiating its own trade deals' is the most naive comment I have ever seen on the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 The UK has been a trading nation throughout its history. 'No expertise in negotiating its own trade deals' is the most naive comment I have ever seen on the internet. "Trading nation throughout its history"? Make that expansionist, colonialist, asset stripping, murdering empire builders! "I'll trade you this bag of beads for your countries mineral rights as long as we can kill all the indigenous people who protest that we're on their land; take the deal or we'll kill you as well". I don't think that sort of agreement will be signed off today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 "Trading nation throughout its history"? Make that expansionist, colonialist, asset stripping, murdering empire builders! "I'll trade you this bag of beads for your countries mineral rights as long as we can kill all the indigenous people who protest that we're on their land; take the deal or we'll kill you as well". I don't think that sort of agreement will be signed off today. that only applies to Vikings :shaking fist: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 The UK has been a trading nation throughout its history. 'No expertise in negotiating its own trade deals' is the most naive comment I have ever seen on the internet. UK is hiring foreigners (a new zealander, iirc) to head up their negotiating team and civil servants are given textbooks on tariffs and non tariff barriers and how to do trade deals. (no joke). The trade experts the UK does have all work for the EU and May doesnt want them because they all think brexit is a dumb idea. Noone denies UK was an empire (or "trading nation"), holds little relevance today though. Chach 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 "Trading nation throughout its history"? Make that expansionist, colonialist, asset stripping, murdering empire builders! "I'll trade you this bag of beads for your countries mineral rights as long as we can kill all the indigenous people who protest that we're on their land; take the deal or we'll kill you as well". I don't think that sort of agreement will be signed off today. You haven't seen May's bag of beads! ? MikeO and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 "Trading nation throughout its history"? Make that expansionist, colonialist, asset stripping, murdering empire builders! "I'll trade you this bag of beads for your countries mineral rights as long as we can kill all the indigenous people who protest that we're on their land; take the deal or we'll kill you as well". I don't think that sort of agreement will be signed off today. What did the Romans ever do for us. I'm surprised you only went back 250 years.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 "Trading nation throughout its history"? Make that expansionist, colonialist, asset stripping, murdering empire builders! "I'll trade you this bag of beads for your countries mineral rights as long as we can kill all the indigenous people who protest that we're on their land; take the deal or we'll kill you as well". I don't think that sort of agreement will be signed off today. Mike, as you seem to have a guilt complex in being British and as you are obviously enamoured of the EU, I thought I would help by suggesting some EU countries you could apply to for citizenship. France - no, colonialists too. Germany - lets not go there. Holland - colonialists, Denmark - Vikings (how far are we going back). Little Belgium - in the late 19th Century King Leopold ll became one of the worlds greatest mass murderers, killing an estimated 10m inhabitants of the Congo. Then there's the Spanish Inquisition. Could go on but have come across Malta, which seems the best bet. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 Mike, as you seem to have a guilt complex in being British and as you are obviously enamoured of the EU, I thought I would help by suggesting some EU countries you could apply to for citizenship. France - no, colonialists too. Germany - lets not go there. Holland - colonialists, Denmark - Vikings (how far are we going back). Little Belgium - in the late 19th Century King Leopold ll became one of the worlds greatest mass murderers, killing an estimated 10m inhabitants of the Congo. Then there's the Spanish Inquisition. Could go on but have come across Malta, which seems the best bet. Hope this helps. I was commenting on your point that we'd been a trading nation throughout our history John; I'm fully aware that a shameful past isn't unique to us, but that wasn't what we were talking about . Oh, and I have no "guilt complex" about being British because it all (almost all anyway) happened before I was born. We'd largely seen the error of our ways by then, as had all of Europe. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 Mike, as you seem to have a guilt complex in being British and as you are obviously enamoured of the EU, I thought I would help by suggesting some EU countries you could apply to for citizenship. France - no, colonialists too. Germany - lets not go there. Holland - colonialists, Denmark - Vikings (how far are we going back). Little Belgium - in the late 19th Century King Leopold ll became one of the worlds greatest mass murderers, killing an estimated 10m inhabitants of the Congo. Then there's the Spanish Inquisition. Could go on but have come across Malta, which seems the best bet. Hope this helps. this is not a good post John. Anyway, here's how this will all probably end : https://www.ft.com/content/d992b7c0-62fc-11e7-91a7-502f7ee26895 Behind paywall so summary: 1/ UK accepts all EU terms (FoM, ECJ, exit bill) 2/ UK crashes out of EU (permanent and extreme hit to economy) 3/ UK withdraws A50 letter (no longer rebate) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 Hit a nerve did I Holystove? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 Mike, as you seem to have a guilt complex in being British and as you are obviously enamoured of the EU, I thought I would help by suggesting some EU countries you could apply to for citizenship. France - no, colonialists too. Germany - lets not go there. Holland - colonialists, Denmark - Vikings (how far are we going back). Little Belgium - in the late 19th Century King Leopold ll became one of the worlds greatest mass murderers, killing an estimated 10m inhabitants of the Congo. Then there's the Spanish Inquisition. Could go on but have come across Malta, which seems the best bet. Hope this helps. with that logic john no country on earth is habitable. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Hit a nerve did I Holystove? No I just think it is one of the biggest faults with the brexit side, to call someone like Mike who says he doesn't agree with the current direction the country has taken (and who is critical of some of its past mistakes) unpatriotic. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Holystove, the thread was discussing the ability (or otherwise) of the UK to negotiate trade deals in the 21st century. Mike for some odd reason decided to raise the issue of the UK's colonial past, going back some 200+ years.. My post (which I thought was good, not poor) was aimed at highlighting the total irrelevancy of this. I notice that you did not post that Mike's post was poor, even though it was totally irrelevant to the discussion. Still, Mike is pro EU and a 'Remainer'. And, before anyone gets the wrong impression, a top bloke - we just have different opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Holystove, the thread was discussing the ability (or otherwise) of the UK to negotiate trade deals in the 21st century. Mike for some odd reason decided to raise the issue of the UK's colonial past, going back some 200+ years.. My post (which I thought was good, not poor) was aimed at highlighting the total irrelevancy of this. I notice that you did not post that Mike's post was poor, even though it was totally irrelevant to the discussion. Still, Mike is pro EU and a 'Remainer'. And, before anyone gets the wrong impression, a top bloke - we just have different opinions. The only reason I referenced history John was because you did ("The UK has been a trading nation throughout its history") so I'm unsure how my reasoning was odd . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 Anyone want to know about how the English wiped out our Cornish language or more recently bought up property so that entire villages are uninhabited during the winter months? What about Westminster trampling over the legal rights of our stannary parliament? Worse, Prince Charles owns much of our land and derives most of his income off the backs of Cornish farmers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 Farmers are heavily subsidised by the government, and have an awful lot of waste. It would be cheaper for the government to run them or better get buy land in another country to farm. https://fullfact.org/economy/farming-subsidies-uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 The only reason I referenced history John was because you did ("The UK has been a trading nation throughout its history") so I'm unsure how my reasoning was odd . Mike, I thought it fairly obvious that the term 'throughout history' was a qualification of our negotiating expertise, not an invitation for 'open house' on our dirty washing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 Mike, I thought it fairly obvious that the term 'throughout history' was a qualification of our negotiating expertise, not an invitation for 'open house' on our dirty washing. I thought your ancestors were Irish, John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 I find it odd Leave supporting commentators such as Iain Martin, Tim Montgomerie, Andrew Lilico are saying the chances of Remain are increasing (either through a 2nd REF or a new GE) as the failure of the current government to make brexit work becomes more apparent. IMO, there is 0 chance the UK will remain in the EU as it is a legal impossibility. It is the view of the legal service of the EU Commission the article 50 notice is irrevocable (http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-17-2001_en.htm). I tend to agree. Article 50 is part of the constitutional law of the EU. Therefor it is irrelevant if there is poliltical agreement amongst the EU27 and UK to allow the UK to remain; politicial will is not above treaty law (as interpreted by ECJ). To Remain would require a Treaty change. If the UK withdraws its A50 notice, and the EU27 accept, it is, by treaty, the duty of the Commission to appeal to the ECJ to make sure this is not in breach of EU Constitutional Law. Ironically, the ECJ could be the Brexiters' greatest friend. (I thought it important to quash any hopes Remain people might have on this issue ). There is no remain, there is only re-join. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 I thought your ancestors were Irish, John. Great, great grandfather born in county Cork. Great grandfather, grandfather, father and me, born in Liverpool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40599992 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted July 15, 2017 Report Share Posted July 15, 2017 "If a right wing populist punch in the form of Brexit was followed by a left wing populist punch in the form of unreconstructed hard left economics, Britain would hit the canvas, flat on our back and be out for a long count." http://institute.global/news/brexit-and-centre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 This picture after it was reported that Davis doesn't read briefings or EU position papers because details apparently hinder clarity. At least Olly brought something to take notes with a yellow marker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 This picture after it was reported that Davis doesn't read briefings or EU position papers because details apparently hinder clarity. At least Olly brought something to take notes with a yellow marker. ? actually it should probably be ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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