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Romey 1878

January Plans

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11 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

Striker and Right Back.  Sell Niasse and Kenny to make room.

Can't agree, need to keep Kenny and give him more time to improve, he's better than Seamus going forward, needs to improve his defensive side.

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19 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

Striker and Right Back.  Sell Niasse and Kenny to make room.

Would anyone contemplate selling Seamus? 

I love him as a bloke and he has been great for us and I wouldnt argue with anyone who says he should be here until he retires but would anyone consider it? 

I expect he would still command quite a big fee.

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3 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Would anyone contemplate selling Seamus? 

I love him as a bloke and he has been great for us and I wouldnt argue with anyone who says he should be here until he retires but would anyone consider it? 

I expect he would still command quite a big fee.

Nope and I don’t think he’d go anyway 

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33 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Would anyone contemplate selling Seamus? 

I love him as a bloke and he has been great for us and I wouldnt argue with anyone who says he should be here until he retires but would anyone consider it? 

I expect he would still command quite a big fee.

totally, i just don't think this club has the fortitude to do it.  we are "the nice guys" and i can't see it happening.  where would he go?  

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44 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Would anyone contemplate selling Seamus? 

I love him as a bloke and he has been great for us and I wouldnt argue with anyone who says he should be here until he retires but would anyone consider it? 

I expect he would still command quite a big fee.

A club like Celtic would maybe appeal to him. 

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4 hours ago, Bailey said:

Would anyone contemplate selling Seamus? 

I love him as a bloke and he has been great for us and I wouldnt argue with anyone who says he should be here until he retires but would anyone consider it? 

I expect he would still command quite a big fee.

As a defender he still does a good job for us, (when he's not giving away penalties 👎) going forward, his delivery is poor, it's either a horrible little dink with no power or over everyone's head, something he will never change now, for me another full season rotating with Jonjoe helping him on his defensive work as he's much better than Seamus going forward.

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15 hours ago, Bailey said:

Would anyone contemplate selling Seamus? 

I love him as a bloke and he has been great for us and I wouldnt argue with anyone who says he should be here until he retires but would anyone consider it? 

I expect he would still command quite a big fee.

a 30 old full back who cant attack, wont go for more than £10m if he went.

As previously mentioned the only team who would get his attention would probably be celtic and they cant afford a freddo (tbf that is expensive) never mind a new RB

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Coleman signed a long term deal prior to his injury. He won’t be going anywhere. Nor would I want him to. He will be a proper pro who gives his all till he finishes and he knows as a club what we are about. Granted we need a right back to push him. Anybody that m and m want is good enough for me 

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26 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

Coleman signed a long term deal prior to his injury. He won’t be going anywhere. Nor would I want him to. He will be a proper pro who gives his all till he finishes and he knows as a club what we are about. Granted we need a right back to push him. Anybody that m and m want is good enough for me 

We need a RB to replace him, so he can push the replacement, ala Baines and Digne

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I can't see us doing much business in January maybe the odd outgoing player but I think Marco and Brands will wait for the summer window 

First priority for me is start negotiating with Barca for Gomes we simply can't let the lad slip through our fingers 

RB - Wan Bissaka would be my first choice of players I've actually seen, young English pacey and causes loads of problems offensively. He will definitely have a big future down the line and won't be at Palace long 

Moussa Wague another Barca player but for their B team, young quick and very good with the ball at his feet reminds me of Digne in some of ways could have a very bright future

Striker - Timo Werner, He won't be cheap but the lad has the lot definitely the type of next tier striker we should be aiming for 

Batshuayi I still rate him and think he'd be a great signing, pretty sure his contract runs out next season as well 

Although not an out and out striker I really rate and think Lozano would fit the type of system and style Marco wants us to play, another that won't be cheap but would be worth it imo

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2 hours ago, Matt said:

We need a RB to replace him, so he can push the replacement, ala Baines and Digne

Exactly. Replace these guys with better quality and make them the back up. No need to sell everyone who loses their place. Losing any of Seamus, Baines and Jags would be terrible for the squad. 

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27 minutes ago, StevO said:

Exactly. Replace these guys with better quality and make them the back up. No need to sell everyone who loses their place. Losing any of Seamus, Baines and Jags would be terrible for the squad. 

i believe we lose both baines and jags this summer due to contract.  i don't think it will have much of an effect to be honest.

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5 hours ago, aaron said:

a 30 old full back who cant attack, wont go for more than £10m if he went.

As previously mentioned the only team who would get his attention would probably be celtic and they cant afford a freddo (tbf that is expensive) never mind a new RB

I thought he would get a bit more than that based on his reputation rather that current level of performance but then again I cant think of any similar examples going for £10mil let alone more!

46 minutes ago, StevO said:

Exactly. Replace these guys with better quality and make them the back up. No need to sell everyone who loses their place. Losing any of Seamus, Baines and Jags would be terrible for the squad. 

I do agree, these old boys bring lots more than their perormance on the pitch however I was just think about how Fergie used to do it at Utd but even he used to keep some of the core players there until they retired.

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5 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

i believe we lose both baines and jags this summer due to contract.  i don't think it will have much of an effect to be honest.

Then you don’t understand the importance of team spirit, and I don’t think you understand the risk not only attached to bringing in players but also losing them.

Do not underestimate the benefit of having good professionals around the club, but having some who know they aren’t first choice and still won’t rock the boat is rare. We have that with Jags and Baines, there is no good reason to lose it. 

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5 hours ago, Bailey said:

 

I do agree, these old boys bring lots more than their perormance on the pitch however I was just think about how Fergie used to do it at Utd but even he used to keep some of the core players there until they retired.

Exactly, Fergie was so ruthless when it came to players. Beckham and Stan just two that come to mind. On the other hand his players like Giggs, Rio and Scholes, they set the example to everyone. Rooney, after he left United he said the standards around the club dropped when these players left. Not necessarily on the pitch, but the likes of people turning up on time, working harder in training, even things like fastening the top button on their shirts on the team bus. He said him and Carrick tried to keep it up but wasn’t the same influence as when there was more of them. These players are vital to a club, even more so a club like ours who has been built on tradition. 

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5 minutes ago, StevO said:

Then you don’t understand the importance of team spirit, and I don’t think you understand the risk not only attached to bringing in players but also losing them.

Do not underestimate the benefit of having good professionals around the club, but having some who know they aren’t first choice and still won’t rock the boat is rare. We have that with Jags and Baines, there is no good reason to lose it. 

I don’t think that’s what he’s getting at. I read it as he’s looking at the “new approach”, which is definitely colder than it was before and therefore a possible reality. It’s not a question of understanding team spirit, it’s accepting the current reality. 

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Just now, Matt said:

I don’t think that’s what he’s getting at. I read it as he’s looking at the “new approach”, which is definitely colder than it was before and therefore a possible reality. It’s not a question of understanding team spirit, it’s accepting the current reality. 

I don’t see that new approach though Matt. I saw it with Koeman, but I don’t see us just buying 24 players over two years and dropping the old guard. Can you really see the club letting two players like that go in the same year? 

For me it would be more detrimental than when we brought in any player we could get our hands on for at least £25m, it just pulled the squad to pieces. We’ve now brought in Brands who has a sense about how to run a football club, I don’t think he would make those mistakes. 

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1 minute ago, StevO said:

I don’t see that new approach though Matt. I saw it with Koeman, but I don’t see us just buying 24 players over two years and dropping the old guard. Can you really see the club letting two players like that go in the same year? 

For me it would be more detrimental than when we brought in any player we could get our hands on for at least £25m, it just pulled the squad to pieces. We’ve now brought in Brands who has a sense about how to run a football club, I don’t think he would make those mistakes. 

I saw Hibbert and Osman let go unceremoniously under Moshiri, 2 loyal and influential figures for a decade. So yeah, I see the concern. 

I don’t think it will happen this time though. Hopefully Moshiri learnt from his mistake. But I do understand the concern 

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1 minute ago, Matt said:

I saw Hibbert and Osman let go unceremoniously under Moshiri, 2 loyal and influential figures for a decade. So yeah, I see the concern. 

I don’t think it will happen this time though. Hopefully Moshiri learnt from his mistake. But I do understand the concern 

I thought the same when them two went, I think the club learnt their lesson, or I hope so. 

I don’t think Mark does have that same concern, which is my point. He said he doesn’t think it’ll have much effect. We all know the effect it had on the squad last time, they didn’t show it on the pitch but everyone knows how much it upset the other lads in the team, ironically the same lads we are discussing now. 

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1 hour ago, StevO said:

I thought the same when them two went, I think the club learnt their lesson, or I hope so. 

I don’t think Mark does have that same concern, which is my point. He said he doesn’t think it’ll have much effect. We all know the effect it had on the squad last time, they didn’t show it on the pitch but everyone knows how much it upset the other lads in the team, ironically the same lads we are discussing now. 

i know exactly what you are saying and i agree with you, but i don't agree on who those players are.  the old guard is not jags and baines as they are well beyond the team spirit and being a scholes and keeping the players in line.  jags moreso than baines.  the old guard is now players like coleman and gylfi.  they are the 30+ veterans who show with hard work and help to keep the guys in line, coincidently (not really) they are the captains usually.  they are the veterans and Marco's leaders on and off the pitch.  

 

i could see a baines 1 or 2 year deal because he's 3 years younger than jags, but jags is 36 there would be no reason (for me) to re-sign him.

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1 minute ago, markjazzbassist said:

i know exactly what you are saying and i agree with you, but i don't agree on who those players are.  the old guard is not jags and baines as they are well beyond the team spirit and being a scholes and keeping the players in line.  jags moreso than baines.  the old guard is now players like coleman and gylfi.  they are the 30+ veterans who show with hard work and help to keep the guys in line, coincidently (not really) they are the captains usually.  they are the veterans and Marco's leaders on and off the pitch.  

 

i could see a baines 1 or 2 year deal because he's 3 years younger than jags, but jags is 36 there would be no reason (for me) to re-sign him.

That post says to me you don’t get it at all. Old guard is a phrase for long term servants, not necessarily on the field. Gylfi hasn’t been anywhere near long enough, though I don’t doubt his professionalism. Jags, Baines and Coleman are the last of the loyal players, and that’s why they’re valuable 

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6 hours ago, Matt said:

That post says to me you don’t get it at all. Old guard is a phrase for long term servants, not necessarily on the field. Gylfi hasn’t been anywhere near long enough, though I don’t doubt his professionalism. Jags, Baines and Coleman are the last of the loyal players, and that’s why they’re valuable 

i get it completely, it doesn't take a guy who's been at the club for a long time to be the old guard.  gylfi has proven on and off the pitch for years in this league he is a top player and professional.  the others respect that, you don't need to be an academy boy to show that.  that's where i think this whole hero worship goes south, no need for jags and baines to stay on to espouse the values of everton, we have a manager and players he likes and respects to do that.  not to mention the things the manager wants for team spirit and the values he cherishes change from manager to manager.  if we still had moyes then sure keep hibbo and distin and jags and baines around.  but 4 managers later and they don't know what marco wants anymore than Digne who was just signed.  Juve, PSG, dortmund, barca all jettison their aging players and they don't seem to lack team spirit and they keep winning.  maybe we should take a page from there book, maybe your definition of old guard is what's holding us back.

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9 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

i get it completely, it doesn't take a guy who's been at the club for a long time to be the old guard.  gylfi has proven on and off the pitch for years in this league he is a top player and professional.  the others respect that, you don't need to be an academy boy to show that.  that's where i think this whole hero worship goes south, no need for jags and baines to stay on to espouse the values of everton, we have a manager and players he likes and respects to do that.  not to mention the things the manager wants for team spirit and the values he cherishes change from manager to manager.  if we still had moyes then sure keep hibbo and distin and jags and baines around.  but 4 managers later and they don't know what marco wants anymore than Digne who was just signed.  Juve, PSG, dortmund, barca all jettison their aging players and they don't seem to lack team spirit and they keep winning.  maybe we should take a page from there book, maybe your definition of old guard is what's holding us back.

Yeah, you really don’t get it. It’s not about old pros, it’s not about experience in the league. It’s not about what Marco wants. You either get it or you don’t, and you don’t. 

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The manager and having backroom staff in the likes of Dunc along with the first team players we have who have plenty of experience in this league will more than cover what desires and ethos we want and need

Baines has already stated he doesn't have a passion for the game albeit he will for the club but apparently doesn't want to hang around, Jags is surplus but I would like to see him move into the coaching in some respect Coleman has another year in him imo before he becomes completely surplus 

There's very little point handing players multimillion pound contracts just for off the park experience, I can't think of many successful sides that tend to do it with said players never playing that's coaching not being a player  

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On 08/12/2018 at 04:57, markjazzbassist said:

i get it completely, it doesn't take a guy who's been at the club for a long time to be the old guard.  gylfi has proven on and off the pitch for years in this league he is a top player and professional.  the others respect that, you don't need to be an academy boy to show that.  that's where i think this whole hero worship goes south, no need for jags and baines to stay on to espouse the values of everton, we have a manager and players he likes and respects to do that.  not to mention the things the manager wants for team spirit and the values he cherishes change from manager to manager.  if we still had moyes then sure keep hibbo and distin and jags and baines around.  but 4 managers later and they don't know what marco wants anymore than Digne who was just signed.  Juve, PSG, dortmund, barca all jettison their aging players and they don't seem to lack team spirit and they keep winning.  maybe we should take a page from there book, maybe your definition of old guard is what's holding us back.

Not my definition, it’s the English definition;

old guard
noun
  1. the original or long-standing members of a group

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5 hours ago, aaron said:

after last night 10000000000000000000000000000% a right back needs to be bought. Straight in for that lad from Palace.

Apparently after Bissaka Dacoure and NDombele and a striker in the summer, pinch of salt but I'd be made up with all three and a proper top level striker 

 

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19 hours ago, nogs said:

We're crying out for a genuine number 9. Richarlison is game but he's not a natural there, let's get the best out of him on the wing. All out for Callum Wilson for me, sell Tosun and Walcott to fund it if needs be

Wilson all day. 

No benefit in selling Walcott. 

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36 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Is Callum Wilson really that much of an upgrade? 

I certainly dont think he is a bad player, Im just not sure he is a level above what we have. 

No we need a target man who can link up the play. Giroud would be perfect but for how long? Diego Costa would be great too. 

Digne and siggy would love to have a player like giroud to aim for. 

I like Wilson, but we should be aiming for a better player. 

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33 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Is Callum Wilson really that much of an upgrade? 

I certainly dont think he is a bad player, Im just not sure he is a level above what we have. 

I rate him highly, but I said in another thread that I'd like him here as a second option to another, more proven striker -- a Gabriel Jesus to an Aguero in a sense.

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3 hours ago, Bailey said:

Is Callum Wilson really that much of an upgrade? 

I certainly dont think he is a bad player, Im just not sure he is a level above what we have. 

Not an upgrade on Tosun, Niasse and DCL? Really? 

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I believe Wilson would definitely be an upgrade on our current options. He's not world class of course, but he knows the league and scores goals. I still maintain that we would still need a better striker to challenge for top 4, so he's not my first choice, but he would be excellent depth. 

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I think Wilson could slot in nicely. I always thought Inaki Williams was going to grow into a powerful, pacey striker but it seems he hasn’t kick his development on so much? 

Regardless if we get another CF, he will need to have a bit of size about him as we do still look for our CF to hold onto the ball and bring others into the game.

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Heads out of arses lads, we aren't even in Europe, nevermind the Champions league so don't be dreaming of world class strikers...yet.

Callum Wilson is the level we should be looking at for now to get us to the next level then you replace him. Look at City when they started, they had the next step players but then replaced them when they made it to the champions league. offering "European football" doesn't have the same pull anymore when its just Europa League, players want Champions League, and until we get that then yes Wilson is good enough and what we should be going for. Don't get me wrong, I'd love the world class players here but realistically we aren't in any sort of position to be getting them.

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No we shouldn’t, we should be looking at players to take us to the next level, not arguably slightly better than what we already have.

Were not looking to consolidate 8th place, we’re looking to improve on last season and at least challenge for the top six. We need to be brave, and go for targets that will take us to that next level. We may get them, we may not, but we need to trying either way.

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2 hours ago, Shukes said:

No we shouldn’t, we should be looking at players to take us to the next level, not arguably slightly better than what we already have.

Were not looking to consolidate 8th place, we’re looking to improve on last season and at least challenge for the top six. We need to be brave, and go for targets that will take us to that next level. We may get them, we may not, but we need to trying either way.

Of course we are trying to consolidate 8th place. You don't build a house on a sand foundation.

If the gamble of chasing the "next level" targets doesn't pay off then we have wasted time, money and possibly of signing someone who would come in and push us in the right direction towards the "next level" players. We need to learn to walk before we starting a marathon.

Like I previously mentioned City did it, Spurs have done it, Liverpool are doing it. United tried doing it the "gamble on the next level" way and look at the mess they are now in.

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Don’t agree at all. You build up from a solid foundation, and we already have a solid foundation. We’ve been a solid top 8 team for years. No point building sideways onto marshland, build up, build towards something. 

City went out and brought a star player the second they had money, they made a massive statement.... it’s done them well.

liverpool have always done it, has t always worked but mostly it has. They have never tried to consolidate.

Even spurs have brought big name players, always.

 

I do u derstand where your coming from, don’t rush and make mistakes. But we have the foundation already set.... it’s time we started laying bricks now.

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22 hours ago, sibdane said:

I rate him highly, but I said in another thread that I'd like him here as a second option to another, more proven striker -- a Gabriel Jesus to an Aguero in a sense.

I agree with you about him being a 2nd striker but then we arent going to go out and buy two strikers to replace what we have.

19 hours ago, nogs said:

Not an upgrade on Tosun, Niasse and DCL? Really? 

I said "much of an upgrade". Niasse is obvious but I dont think there is a lot of difference between the others and Wilson has already had 2 major injuries which is likely to shorten his career. 

18 hours ago, sibdane said:

I believe Wilson would definitely be an upgrade on our current options. He's not world class of course, but he knows the league and scores goals. I still maintain that we would still need a better striker to challenge for top 4, so he's not my first choice, but he would be excellent depth. 

I agree, albeit I dont think there would be much difference. Im not sure there is a massive amount between him and Richarlison and I would back the latter to improve a lot more in the future.

 

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9 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I agree with you about him being a 2nd striker but then we arent going to go out and buy two strikers to replace what we have.

I said "much of an upgrade". Niasse is obvious but I dont think there is a lot of difference between the others and Wilson has already had 2 major injuries which is likely to shorten his career. 

I agree, albeit I dont think there would be much difference. Im not sure there is a massive amount between him and Richarlison and I would back the latter to improve a lot more in the future.

 

I would still prefer to see Richarlison on the wing and bring in two strikers. A second striker isn'tt a priority now though; I'd much rather bring in a player of higher standing than Wilson of course, but I think he'd be an excellent second option. He's looked really good this season, and even if he does have a shortened career due to injuries, he's still young (26) and has a lot of pace and strength. I would definitely say he's an upgrade on DCL, Tosun, and obviously, Niasse.  

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For what you’d have to pay, Wilson would be a massive risk. In the current market, you’re looking at around £40m for a player who has had major surgery in both knees. I’d love him if we had him already and if he was coming to the end of his contract on the cheap he’d be a no brainer but for what you’d have to pay vs the risk - it’d be ridiculous.

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49 minutes ago, c1982 said:

For what you’d have to pay, Wilson would be a massive risk. In the current market, you’re looking at around £40m for a player who has had major surgery in both knees. I’d love him if we had him already and if he was coming to the end of his contract on the cheap he’d be a no brainer but for what you’d have to pay vs the risk - it’d be ridiculous.

That's a good point. I'm not sure what his valuation would be. 40M seems high, but it's really hard to fathom today's market prices.

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I'd guess it would be more than £40m, decent strikers are in short supply. We gambled £25m on an unproven striker from the Turkish league. Wilson is younger and proven in the league, add to that he'll come with an English premium and I would be surprised if it's closer to £70m.

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On 13/12/2018 at 19:45, c1982 said:

For what you’d have to pay, Wilson would be a massive risk. In the current market, you’re looking at around £40m for a player who has had major surgery in both knees. I’d love him if we had him already and if he was coming to the end of his contract on the cheap he’d be a no brainer but for what you’d have to pay vs the risk - it’d be ridiculous.

Completely agree. 

I also prefer King to Wilson, I think he is a far more rounded player albeit he is probably better off the striker than leading the line whih wouldnt help us at all!

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