duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 To be fair, I can't sleep, it's after 3 AM and I just read back a couple years in this forum and I saw quite a bit of this. Haf is right. Few were more excited than I was when Rom signed on a permanent deal. I'm a barman in New York and Frank Lampard came into my bar just before the permanent signing, through a short conversation with him (the man is class btw), I became convinced that Rom was the answer to all our problems. But Rom is far from coming close to living up to his price tag. After spending literally the last hour + reading through this thread, I don't think Haf has once denied Rom's physicality, his sheer talent or his ability to change a game. The man is a freak of nature and every Evertonian has seen that displayed dozens of times. But it's the things that Rom doesn't do... the breakdowns in play... the lack of pressure put on a pass back to the keeper, laziness on passes between CBs, a lack of well timed runs, a lack of desire to win balls at his feet, a lack of desire to make tackles and a short fuse in terms of blaming his teammates (this is just observed from broadcasts but seems real), that make him such a disappointment. I actually believe that Rom still has the opportunity to be world class as he's so young and so physically able and talented, but he needs a massive shift in mentality. I can't chalk it up to strategy, because whether or not RM's tactics dictate up the field pressure on clearances or possession in the back of the field for opponents, I've never seen a striker so disinterested in disposessing a defense in their own half. I've never seen a striker so lazy and overconfident in his first touch. Contrast that with Naisy, who I would have sold for a quarter of his asking price and who has 1/5 the talent of Lukaku, but who works tirelessly for every single pass, who tackles in the backfield even when it's clear he will not win the tackle and who runs at defenders just enough to make them question themselves even when he knows he's not quick enough to get there. Rom DOES stand around too much. He DOES hang out offsides too much. He DOES NOT take credit for his shortcomings. And that's what makes him so god damn frustrating. It's not that he's not scoring enough goals for a forward. It's that he's not scoring enough goals for Romelu Lukaku, Everton's record signing and a man with the physicality to be one of the greatest young strikers the premier league has ever seen. No offence but just because a barman in New York agrees with him it doesn't make him right markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) Thing is chaps I use my eyes and judgement... That's how I've been quite comfortable with my opinions. I'm ignoring the rest of the same-old you've posted, as I'm trying to stay away from the thread for the sake of my blood pressure, but this pissed me off no end. Everyone uses their own eyes and judgement, Haf, and nearly everyone disagrees with you. Making comments like this just sounds so condescending and is insulting. Pretty sure it's not meant that way mind you, but it got to me and it's not the first time you've made this point, as if to suggest everyone else doesn't have their own opinion and picks up on press reviews or something. Edited September 18, 2015 by Matt duncanmckenzieismagic, Lowensda, markjazzbassist and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Rom DOES stand around too much. He DOES hang out offsides too much. He DOES NOT take credit for his shortcomings. Before Everton, Rom DID only play 45-60 minutes per game. Since then, he's clearly become fitter and can take 90 minutes, even 120. But the size and strength that are so powerful in other ways means he can't run around forever like a blue-assed fly, like a Naismith, for example. I wouldn't call it laziness, at all. I'd call it pacing himself. duncanmckenzieismagic, Lowensda, markjazzbassist and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyblue23 Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 No offence but just because a barman in New York agrees with him it doesn't make him right What I do and where I live are pretty irrelevant aren't they? chicagoblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyblue23 Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Before Everton, Rom DID only play 45-60 minutes per game. Since then, he's clearly become fitter and can take 90 minutes, even 120. But the size and strength that are so powerful in other ways means he can't run around forever like a blue-assed fly, like a Naismith, for example. I wouldn't call it laziness, at all. I'd call it pacing himself. Disagree wholeheartedly with this. Distin was a bigger man with twice the work rate until last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 What I do and where I live are pretty irrelevant aren't they? Depends if I ever get to NY and need a drink, then you become essential . markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 I don't think a centre half and a forward can be compared for work rate. They both get a lot of time away from the ball or with the ball depending on how the team play. A midfielder on the other hand has to keep going for 90 mins regardless. I've said a million times on here, Rom scores goals. That's all I expect of him. Plenty of people on here moaned when Moyes turned a lazy goal scoring Yakubu into a hard working channel runner. We now have a lazy goal scoring Lukaku, I'd like to keep him that way. Oh, and it doesn't matter where you live or what you do. Unless you are Roberto Martinez, your opinion matters as little as mine or anyone else's on here. markjazzbassist and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyblue23 Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Depends if I ever get to NY and need a drink, then you become essential . Ha fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyblue23 Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 I don't think a centre half and a forward can be compared for work rate. They both get a lot of time away from the ball or with the ball depending on how the team play. A midfielder on the other hand has to keep going for 90 mins regardless. I've said a million times on here, Rom scores goals. That's all I expect of him. Plenty of people on here moaned when Moyes turned a lazy goal scoring Yakubu into a hard working channel runner. We now have a lazy goal scoring Lukaku, I'd like to keep him that way. Oh, and it doesn't matter where you live or what you do. Unless you are Roberto Martinez, your opinion matters as little as mine or anyone else's on here. I agree it's not a perfect comparison; maybe a Benteke is more equitable and Benteke has a higher work rate as well. I just want him to score more goals, and I think he's capable of doing that. I don't think Rom is doing a poor job, but I wish that he'd utilize his talent more. Competition for his place certainly isn't helping, but 10 in 36 league games just isn't enough for a £28 million man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 I agree it's not a perfect comparison; maybe a Benteke is more equitable and Benteke has a higher work rate as well. I just want him to score more goals, and I think he's capable of doing that. I don't think Rom is doing a poor job, but I wish that he'd utilize his talent more. Competition for his place certainly isn't helping, but 10 in 36 league games just isn't enough for a £28 million man. Not like he was missing chances week in week out. Notoriously, he only had a shocker against Leicester. The rest of the games he was lucky to be given half chances most the season. As for running he's out of puff at the end of most games, if anything we don't get the ball to him enough or fast enough when he makes runs. You have to blame the manager and midfield before Lukaku. Barkley the creative player had 3 assists (and 2 goals). Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Before Everton, Rom DID only play 45-60 minutes per game. Since then, he's clearly become fitter and can take 90 minutes, even 120. But the size and strength that are so powerful in other ways means he can't run around forever like a blue-assed fly, like a Naismith, for example. I wouldn't call it laziness, at all. I'd call it pacing himself. Christiano Ronaldo Paul pogba Hulk Cavani Vieira Valencia Tall and built like brick shithouses, work very hard. Ever seen marshawn lynch? Size is no excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Not like he was missing chances week in week out. Notoriously, he only had a shocker against Leicester. The rest of the games he was lucky to be given half chances most the season. As for running he's out of puff at the end of most games, if anything we don't get the ball to him enough or fast enough when he makes runs. You have to blame the manager and midfield before Lukaku. Barkley the creative player had 3 assists (and 2 goals). he scored 9.52% of his chances which if we look at others last season I will put that into context.... Diego Costa 26% Giroud 20% Harry Kane 19% Steven Naismith 18% Aguero 18% Berahino 17% Benteke 16% Rooney 15% Jelavic 14% Austin 14% Bony 14% Crouch 13% Anichebe 12% Carlton Cole 12% Zamora 10% Routledge 10% LUKAKU 9.5% Victor Moses 7% Kone 7% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 he scored 9.52% of his chances which if we look at others last season I will put that into context.... Diego Costa 26% Giroud 20% Harry Kane 19% Steven Naismith 18% Aguero 18% Berahino 17% Benteke 16% Rooney 15% Jelavic 14% Austin 14% Bony 14% Crouch 13% Anichebe 12% Carlton Cole 12% Zamora 10% Routledge 10% LUKAKU 9.5% Victor Moses 7% Kone 7% Them stats back up that the quality of chances wasn't great. kane is rubbish and missed loads of sitters, but Spurs midfield was miles ahead of ours at creating chances. Give Lukaku them chances and he'd have been top scorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyblue23 Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) Them stats back up that the quality of chances wasn't great. kane is rubbish and missed loads of sitters, but Spurs midfield was miles ahead of ours at creating chances. Give Lukaku them chances and he'd have been top scorer.And that's why two West Brom players, a QPR player, a Hull player, etc. are all ahead of Lukaku? Because their service was that much better? No. Also, the name after Kane is none other than our own Naisy. Naisy's service was that much better than Lukaku's? Again, no. Also, I hate Harry Kane but the man is a smart player and creates many of his chances for himself with proper positioning and good reading of the opponents' backline. The chances Lukaku creates for himself are all out of his sheer talent and strength... rarely by being a smart player. Imagine if Kane had Lukaku's skill or Lukaku Kane's footballing mind. Edited September 18, 2015 by nyblue23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 What I do and where I live are pretty irrelevant aren't they? Yes its totally irrelevant, you could be a nuclear scientist in London or taxi driver in Liverpool, either way you are in no position to say Haf is right, or wrong for that matter. You share an opinion with him and that's about it I really didn't mean any offence by it and I apologise if it did, but Haf's ego does not need any massaging , he constantly implies that he is the only person in this forum capable of forming an informed opinion because we all somehow don't really understand the game as well as he does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) Them figures speak for themselves, can finally agree that Rom is better than Kone now? Also, bring back Big Vic! When Crouch, Cole and Zamora are used in the stats it makes them as pointless as the fact Rom scored more goals than Aguero, Rooney and the likes by the time he was 21. I much prefer that stat than one which ranks any of our players lower than Crouch, Cole and Zamora. Even more so when the two strikers we have leading the line are lower than them. Edited September 18, 2015 by StevO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Stats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Them stats back up that the quality of chances wasn't great. kane is rubbish and missed loads of sitters, but Spurs midfield was miles ahead of ours at creating chances. Give Lukaku them chances and he'd have been top scorer. So did the side generate good chances for Naismith and poor ones for Lukaku? Must be a conspiracy. Naismith was 18% conversion. Well up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Stats! All those stats say is how many shots 3 players who haven't scored have taken. It must be that Harry Kane isn't getting the right chances ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 All those stats say is how many shots 3 players who haven't scored have taken. It must be that Harry Kane isn't getting the right chances ;-) I've seen with my own eyes Harry Kane is rubbish and that's what the stats say. Obviously can't go back to previous seasons as they mean fuck all apparently. If naismith was as good as Lukaku he'd drag the players away to give Lukaku as much space as he benefits. The man even said it himself about the second goal, as I'd already pointed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 So did the side generate good chances for Naismith and poor ones for Lukaku? Must be a conspiracy. Naismith was 18% conversion. Well up there. Please don't tell me that you are now trying to claim that Naismith is a better CF than Lukaku?????? Naismith is a clever player and a great finisher , and if his talent matched his brain then you may be onto something. But if Lukaku was out for 6 months would you be happy with Naismith leading the line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Please don't tell me that you are now trying to claim that Naismith is a better CF than Lukaku?????? Naismith is a clever player and a great finisher , and if his talent matched his brain then you may be onto something. But if Lukaku was out for 6 months would you be happy with Naismith leading the line? No, I'm merely stating that lukaku is not this goalscoring extraordinaire, so good at putting it in the net that nothing else matters. He can be clinical on his day. But when he isn't he offers very little else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 No, I'm merely stating that lukaku is not this goalscoring extraordinaire, so good at putting it in the net that nothing else matters. He can be clinical on his day. But when he isn't he offers very little else. Apart from all his assists you mean? I grant you that he can have some piss poor games, as does anyone, but to say he is just a goal poacher is quite frankly ridiculous Lukaku is the focal point of how Everton play, if you don't have his presence upfront then we just don't have a cutting edge Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 I would assume a player at the forefront of the play is actually going to get assists unless he continually passes to the opposition or passes backwards. Too much is made of his presence. Presence as in size? Well yeah you can't miss him. Presence in terms of unsettling defender's, getting under their skin, moving as a means to break their shape? Nah, not for me. It's like marking a statue for them at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 (edited) I would assume a player at the forefront of the play is actually going to get assists unless he continually passes to the opposition or passes backwards. Too much is made of his presence. Presence as in size? Well yeah you can't miss him. Presence in terms of unsettling defender's, getting under their skin, moving as a means to break their shape? Nah, not for me. It's like marking a statue for them at times. I think I will put this topic on ignore! You make him sound like one of the worst ever players to pull on an Everton shirt, the history books will tell a very different story Edited September 19, 2015 by duncanmckenzieismagic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith B Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Rom wasn't good today. Sometimes it happens. But I don't know we had anyone to come on for him. Kind of why we needed to bring in another striker during the transfer window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 This is why I wanted a Bony or Welbeck. No feast or famine, more rounded and what you see is what you get. Yeah, sure welbeck will attract sniggers but I see a player who if given a central striking berth would become a very good player indeed. I actually thought Naismiths hat trick would fire Rom up, for me it's been mundane mediocrity barring on poor lacklustre for Rom since Southampton when he was exceptional. You either get 10/10 or 5/10 it seems. We need an A list striker, the £20m plus player that gives you consistency. It would be great if we had that money and could keep Rom to see if the penny drops as he could become very good, I just don't think he will unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 This is why I wanted a Bony or Welbeck. No feast or famine, more rounded and what you see is what you get. Yeah, sure welbeck will attract sniggers but I see a player who if given a central striking berth would become a very good player indeed. I actually thought Naismiths hat trick would fire Rom up, for me it's been mundane mediocrity barring on poor lacklustre for Rom since Southampton when he was exceptional. You either get 10/10 or 5/10 it seems. We need an A list striker, the £20m plus player that gives you consistency. It would be great if we had that money and could keep Rom to see if the penny drops as he could become very good, I just don't think he will unfortunately. it's all famine right now for both welbeck and bony. bony can't score or assist and welbeck is out half the campaign. lukaku is better than both at the moment which isn't saying much but he's playing and has more goals and assists than both. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Rom wasn't good today. Sometimes it happens. But I don't know we had anyone to come on for him. Kind of why we needed to bring in another striker during the transfer window. Rom wasn't good, Kone wasn't good, Naismith wasn't good, McCarthy wasn't good.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Rom wasn't good, Kone wasn't good, Naismith wasn't good, McCarthy wasn't good.! McCarthy? I thought he had a great game personally. Much closer to the player we know he can be. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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