Ross Barkley

[Newty82]

You post different when you're drunk

Noticeable isn't it? Funny how you can pick up on these things after reading someone's posts for a while. Can always tell when Mark Jazz wants a bit of verbal or is in a dark mood!!!

[Newty82]

 

You mean it wasn't a postiive when Koeman criticised him and then his performances improved?

This seems to have been forgotten. Barkley did improve as the season went on before dipping again late in the season (I assume this could be distractions around his next move and all that other stuff).

 

I'm not saying I agree with rinsing players out in the press. I am saying that I don't think this is what Koeman intended to do. He has also praised Barkley alone in his interviews. It works both ways.

 

The press continued to ask questions about Barkley, knowing they'd get an answer and plenty of revenue earning click bait from selective headlines. It's all just a game.

[markjazzbassist]

Noticeable isn't it? Funny how you can pick up on these things after reading someone's posts for a while. Can always tell when Mark Jazz wants a bit of verbal or is in a dark mood!!!

 

 

you heard the radiohead through the computer? lol moody indeed

[Bailey]

 

You mean it wasn't a postiive when Koeman criticised him and then his performances improved?

 

This seems to have been forgotten. Barkley did improve as the season went on before dipping again late in the season (I assume this could be distractions around his next move and all that other stuff).

 

I'm not saying I agree with rinsing players out in the press. I am saying that I don't think this is what Koeman intended to do. He has also praised Barkley alone in his interviews. It works both ways.

 

The press continued to ask questions about Barkley, knowing they'd get an answer and plenty of revenue earning click bait from selective headlines. It's all just a game.

 

But again, why does that need to be said in the public domain? Good or bad.

 

If a player has a stinker, you say something like "wasnt at his best, but as a team we didnt perform" and then when he plays well you do the opposite "he was good today but the whole group did their job". Then when you get back to the changing room you rip them a new one.

 

Imagine if this type of think happened in your own workplace? I saw a very similar thing in mine a couple of weeks ago, where someone was castigated in front of the whole office and shit kicked off leading to a resignation.

[pete0]

 

 

But again, why does that need to be said in the public domain? Good or bad.

 

If a player has a stinker, you say something like "wasnt at his best, but as a team we didnt perform" and then when he plays well you do the opposite "he was good today but the whole group did their job". Then when you get back to the changing room you rip them a new one.

 

Imagine if this type of think happened in your own workplace? I saw a very similar thing in mine a couple of weeks ago, where someone was castigated in front of the whole office and shit kicked off leading to a resignation.

With the amount of shite my work has I'd advocate it and then some. If you've done a shit job and not improved any should you be allowed to carry on getting paid like the rest of the hard workers. He brought the grief in himself. Fer scored more goals than him ffs.

[Newty82]

 

 

But again, why does that need to be said in the public domain? Good or bad.

 

If a player has a stinker, you say something like "wasnt at his best, but as a team we didnt perform" and then when he plays well you do the opposite "he was good today but the whole group did their job". Then when you get back to the changing room you rip them a new one.

 

Imagine if this type of think happened in your own workplace? I saw a very similar thing in mine a couple of weeks ago, where someone was castigated in front of the whole office and shit kicked off leading to a resignation.

I'll always maintain that the 'office' is a much softer and more vulnerable place to be than a changing room full of egotistical, testosterone fueled, highly competitive blokes. The two cannot be compared. Can you imagine the HR censorship trying to be applied from the office into the changing room?

 

Everyone has their own way. Each person who is a success, whether in football management, the office or whatever, has their own approach. Us lowly folk writting on a small fans forum can't really judge what's right and what's wrong can we? If you know what I mean, and i mean no disrespect in that.

 

The ultimate verdict will be how successful Koeman is and how much Barkley achieves once he moves on from us.

[Bailey]

With the amount of shite my work has I'd advocate it and then some. If you've done a shit job and not improved any should you be allowed to carry on getting paid like the rest of the hard workers. He brought the grief in himself. Fer scored more goals than him ffs.

 

You completely miss the boat Pete. The point is, yes the person should be disciplined by management but they shouldn't be called out in front of the office, most of which dont have anything to do with the role. In footballing terms, the team issues shouldn't be called out in public.

 

I'll always maintain that the 'office' is a much softer and more vulnerable place to be than a changing room full of egotistical, testosterone fueled, highly competitive blokes. The two cannot be compared. Can you imagine the HR censorship trying to be applied from the office into the changing room?

 

Everyone has their own way. Each person who is a success, whether in football management, the office or whatever, has their own approach. Us lowly folk writting on a small fans forum can't really judge what's right and what's wrong can we? If you know what I mean, and i mean no disrespect in that.

 

The ultimate verdict will be how successful Koeman is and how much Barkley achieves once he moves on from us.

 

They can be compared, because human beings in an office are human beings in a football team. You get the same characters, the shy and quiet, the load mouthed BS'ers and everything in between but one just gets paid a lot more than the others.

 

No one has yet to give me a benefit of calling someone out in public as opposed to doing it in private either 1 to1 or in the dressing room because you cant. Its unnecessary and it can only be a negative compared to a non-public scenario.

[Newty82]

 

 

They can be compared, because human beings in an office are human beings in a football team. You get the same characters, the shy and quiet, the load mouthed BS'ers and everything in between but one just gets paid a lot more than the others.

 

No one has yet to give me a benefit of calling someone out in public as opposed to doing it in private either 1 to1 or in the dressing room because you cant. Its unnecessary and it can only be a negative compared to a non-public scenario.

I don't often completely disagree with people but I'm afraid I do here Bailey.

 

I'm a manager myself and I wouldn't talk down anyone in front of their colleagues, That's not my way. But I'm in a very soft female orientated environment. So I've adopted my ways to suit. It's the modern corporate environment.

 

I know for a fact that managers across at the shipyard, male dominated environment, would get slaughtered if they took the approach I have to take.

 

That's life. Different environments need different people need different methods.

 

But like I said, the ultimate verdict will be on how Koeman does and how Barkley does once he moves.

[Newty82]

...just realising we may be going a bit wayward here.

 

As has been said previously, I don't think Koeman was intending to be a negative influence to Barkley. I've always thought he was trying to get the best out of Barkley. May not have turned out the right way, but we'll see.

[Bailey]

I don't often completely disagree with people but I'm afraid I do here Bailey.

 

I'm a manager myself and I wouldn't talk down anyone in front of their colleagues, That's not my way. But I'm in a very soft female orientated environment. So I've adopted my ways to suit. It's the modern corporate environment.

 

I know for a fact that managers across at the shipyard, male dominated environment, would get slaughtered if they took the approach I have to take.

 

That's life. Different environments need different people need different methods.

 

But like I said, the ultimate verdict will be on how Koeman does and how Barkley does once he moves.

 

Your basically proving my point but you are generalising more. You treat people differently because of who they are and as a manager its part of your job to adapt like you have. Its incredibly unlikely that in any group of people you are going to have players that respond and react the same way. Its the nature of human beings and is why we aren't robots.

 

I dont think Koeman was necessarily trying to either, in his mind and in his personality, answering these questions as he has is the "norm". However, that doesnt make it right for everyone and there will be people in that dressing room, and I can guarentee that its not just Barkley, that will have heard what Koeman said and will think it was unnecessary when it could have quite easily have been said behind closed doors.

 

Again, I ask, who benefits from Koeman speaking in public? Other than the papers and probably agents!

[pete0]

 

Your basically proving my point but you are generalising more. You treat people differently because of who they are and as a manager its part of your job to adapt like you have. Its incredibly unlikely that in any group of people you are going to have players that respond and react the same way. Its the nature of human beings and is why we aren't robots.

 

I dont think Koeman was necessarily trying to either, in his mind and in his personality, answering these questions as he has is the "norm". However, that doesnt make it right for everyone and there will be people in that dressing room, and I can guarentee that its not just Barkley, that will have heard what Koeman said and will think it was unnecessary when it could have quite easily have been said behind closed doors.

 

Again, I ask, who benefits from Koeman speaking in public? Other than the papers and probably agents!

Everton benefitted. He was rubbish the first half of the season. I'm assuming the manager had told him that I'm training.

The press then put the pressure on him and his form turned round.

 

For me Barkley is like a child and needs to be babied to be happy. But to get the best out of him you need him to be angry. He wants the carrot, don't we all, but he reacts better to the stick.

[Shukes]

I am a manager myself and I would never talk about an employee in front of people, especially if that person is not present, it's unprofessional and ameteur.

 

I have given more disciplinary than I can count, but I have always tried to do it in the correct way..... first comment to said employee,....

 

Are you ok? Is there anything you have on your mind that you might want to share as you don't seem to be yourself?

From there, a good manager knows the personality he is speaking to and can adapt accordingly.

 

This is the problem I have with it all. Wrong or right on my part.

 

But anyway, I have said my opinion enough. Not saying I'm right, but it's mine.

 

Back in Barkley. I hope that during his rehabilitation, something clicks and he realises he is living in his dream come true.

Look around you Ross and eat some humble pie.

Edited August 19, 2017 by Shukes

[Bailey]

Everton benefitted. He was rubbish the first half of the season. I'm assuming the manager had told him that I'm training.

The press then put the pressure on him and his form turned round.

 

For me Barkley is like a child and needs to be babied to be happy. But to get the best out of him you need him to be angry. He wants the carrot, don't we all, but he reacts better to the stick.

So pressure from the press improved Ross? And that would motivate Ross more than a 1 to 1 conversation in private.

 

I'm not debating whether or not Ross needed the gaffer to have a word because I don't know him, I'm debating the method of that word.

[pete0]

So pressure from the press improved Ross? And that would motivate Ross more than a 1 to 1 conversation in private.

 

I'm not debating whether or not Ross needed the gaffer to have a word because I don't know him, I'm debating the method of that word.

I'd be very surprised if Barkley hasn't already been told his performances aren't good enough and the staff put on the effort to help him turn it round.

[Hafnia]

It's a complete load of bollocks. I said a long time ago that Barkley gets picked on - not just by koeman but moyes and hodgson.

 

He gets treated like the kid who gets bottom marks in all his exams and frankly I think he's had enough.

 

It's all very well koeman being Mr Honest and strict about Barkley - he pussy footed around lukaku.

 

2 games- man United and the derby - lukaku was astonishingly bad in. I'm not getting into the debate about him but take it as fact - he was shocking in those games and his attitude was piss poor.

 

Yet - Barkley was the fall guy for criticism after the derby. Again. It stuck out like a bulldogs bollocks that he was getting unfairly treated imo.

[Paddock]

Poor old Ross getting picked on by the nasty old managers. Funny how none of them rated him like some of our fans do.

[pete0]

It's a complete load of bollocks. I said a long time ago that Barkley gets picked on - not just by koeman but moyes and hodgson.

 

He gets treated like the kid who gets bottom marks in all his exams and frankly I think he's had enough.

 

It's all very well koeman being Mr Honest and strict about Barkley - he pussy footed around lukaku.

 

2 games- man United and the derby - lukaku was astonishingly bad in. I'm not getting into the debate about him but take it as fact - he was shocking in those games and his attitude was piss poor.

 

Yet - Barkley was the fall guy for criticism after the derby. Again. It stuck out like a bulldogs bollocks that he was getting unfairly treated imo.

Lukaku done his job getting 25 goals. Ross got 5, which in his position is unacceptable. Alli who only has half the natural ability got 18 last season, Ross has 21 over his entire career so far. Admittedly Alli has Eriksen to help but the difference shouldn't be that big. Especially when you take into account the freedom Ross has had. To look in a poorer team, Swansea, Fer who plays further back got 6 and played 6 games less than Barkley.

 

Barkley doubled his output goals+assists from January. Think the critism works.

[Hafnia]

I think Ross has more courage than is given credit for... the way he came back from a double break etc.

 

It doesn't take sigmund freud to see that the lad responds to the carrot and not the stick.... the fa cup semi final a prime example where jags took him under his wing when he thought he was getting booed.

 

Koeman himself said "it's all about ross" when the journos continued to ask questions.... yet he did fuck all to stop the circus by repeatedly calling him into question.

 

The lad has been the media focus for far too long. Owl faced hodgson destroyed the lad in the rio world cup... he went the tournament on a high.. was motm in a friendly with equador and hodgson got vritival of him and started blowing smoke up phil jones arse.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

It's a complete load of bollocks. I said a long time ago that Barkley gets picked on - not just by koeman but moyes and hodgson.

 

He gets treated like the kid who gets bottom marks in all his exams and frankly I think he's had enough.

 

It's all very well koeman being Mr Honest and strict about Barkley - he pussy footed around lukaku.

 

2 games- man United and the derby - lukaku was astonishingly bad in. I'm not getting into the debate about him but take it as fact - he was shocking in those games and his attitude was piss poor.

 

Yet - Barkley was the fall guy for criticism after the derby. Again. It stuck out like a bulldogs bollocks that he was getting unfairly treated imo.

I think I know who your new Lukaku/Fellaini/Neville/Moyes obsession is going to be

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I think Ross has more courage than is given credit for... the way he came back from a double break etc.

 

It doesn't take sigmund freud to see that the lad responds to the carrot and not the stick.... the fa cup semi final a prime example where jags took him under his wing when he thought he was getting booed.

 

Koeman himself said "it's all about ross" when the journos continued to ask questions.... yet he did fuck all to stop the circus by repeatedly calling him into question.

 

The lad has been the media focus for far too long. Owl faced hodgson destroyed the lad in the rio world cup... he went the tournament on a high.. was motm in a friendly with equador and hodgson got vritival of him and started blowing smoke up phil jones arse.

That's a very good post to be fair

 

Problem is no matter how unfair it is, it comes with the territory and as a professional footballer he is richly rewarded for it . If he is not mentally tough enough to take it on the chin then a parting of the ways is the best option for all parties

[Hafnia]

I think I know who your new Lukaku/Fellaini/Neville/Moyes obsession is going to be

I'm ok with koeman... I don't think the sun shines out his arse like many seem to.

 

In all honesty I think he's a bit dumb when it comes to some matters. His starting tactics for starters and yes - some media.

[Hafnia]

That's a very good post to be fair

 

Problem is no matter how unfair it is, it comes with the territory and as a professional footballer he is richly rewarded for it . If he is not mentally tough enough to take it on the chin then a parting of the ways is the best option for all parties

It's all relative.... money is nothing to them apart from being a comparison piece in the changing rooms.

 

By nature they are all over pampered. If they see themselves getting criticised whilst others are getting away with it then the shit hits the fan.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

It's all relative.... money is nothing to them apart from being a comparison piece in the changing rooms.

 

By nature they are all over pampered. If they see themselves getting criticised whilst others are getting away with it then the shit hits the fan.

The point still stands , if he can't take a few home truths he can jog on

 

If someone criticised my work I would go out of my way to put it right or prove them wrong, it's called professional pride

 

The bottom line is Koeman has been spot on with his critisicm of Ross, whether it should have been done in the public domain is another matter

[Hafnia]

The point still stands , if he can't take a few home truths he can jog on

 

If someone criticised my work I would go out of my way to put it right or prove them wrong, it's called professional pride

 

The bottom line is Koeman has been spot on with his critisicm of Ross, whether it should have been done in the public domain is another matter

If someone criticised your work and left your teammates alone who were also doing as poor if not worse then you wouldn't... you would be annoyed.

[pete0]

If someone criticised your work and left your teammates alone who were also doing as poor if not worse then you wouldn't... you would be annoyed.

Only players as bad as him was Jags and Stek and they both lost their places. Barkley was barely benched in comparison.

[Hafnia]

Only players as bad as him was Jags and Stek and they both lost their places. Barkley was barely benched in comparison.

Did they get slated 1 a month every month for 4 months?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

If someone criticised your work and left your teammates alone who were also doing as poor if not worse then you wouldn't... you would be annoyed.

No I would be more concerned with getting my own house in order

[Hafnia]

Incidentally... how did Ross do on man of the match votes last year?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Incidentally... how did Ross do on man of the match votes last year?

He played some of his best football last year but then his form dropped alarmingly, probably due to him sulking about Koeman's critisicm of him

 

I don't doubt the players ability but it all comes back to the fact he isn't mentally tough enough, if he doesn't want to fight for the shirt I'm happy to see him go

[pete0]

Did they get slated 1 a month every month for 4 months?

No when they come back in the team they performed better. Barkley only got better after public criticism. Comments that were only asked for by the press because how poor his performances were. Koeman was honest as always. Only problem here is Barkley's performances and that's all on him.

 

4 months of carrot and no press/manager pressure and he was shite. Comments come and he turned his season round.